Canadians and your heath care. I got this email today, is this true?

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Pepsi90919

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,162
1
81
based on my experience,

1. false
2. false
3. false
4. true, however I've had no trouble getting one. if you live in a densely populated city your chances are worse. but for the record, Michael Moore filmed those hospital scenes mostly in London, Ontario, a city of 300k people.
5. false, I've waited from 5-30 mins
6. get health insurance
7. go somewhere else i guess. waiting lists suck.
8. no idea
9. no idea
10. i see where this is going. if they refuse to offer certain treatments to voluntarily unhealthy people, that is A+ in my book and a relief on the health system
11. it's a free country, one you're allowed to leave and seek treatment elsewhere, or lobby your MP to change things
12. life sucks?
13. no idea
14. Vancouver BC has the government's only safe injection site, but they have a huge problem there. as far as exchanging needles for free, that's done everywhere, in an effort to keep disease down. I don't really agree with the practice.

I don't know what this thing about paying $100/month is and other premiums, does he just have a shitty benefit plan? I mean I pay almost nothing for mine through work and it gives me like 80% on medication and other things. Perhaps he should find a better job; he sounds like he votes NDP.
 

Pepsi90919

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
25,162
1
81
Originally posted by: NeuroSynapsis
So basically, if you are poor go to Canada and if you are rich stay in the US. got it.

if you enjoy a more socialized system of running things, come here. if you don't, it's not for you.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
33,826
54,481
136
Originally posted by: funboy42
I got this is an email today, supposedly from a Canadian talking about how the Health care system sucks, and does no one there any good and many people die who is on it. Is this true???? This is what was written:

I saw on the news up here in Canada where Hillary Clinton introduced her new health care plan. Something similar to what we have in Canada. I also heard that Michael Moore was raving about the health care up here in Canada in his latest movie. As your friend and someone who lives with the Canada health care plan I thought I would give you some facts about this great medical plan that we have in Canada.


First of all:

1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96. for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What they don't tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the health care system afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that and I am not sure of the exact amount goes directly to health care our #1 expense.

2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you "yes indeed you are sick or you need an operation" but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road.

3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take- not what is causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government re-imbursement

4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.

5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment.

6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to pay $125. for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60. for each visit for him to check it out each week.

7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list . Died before he could get treatment.

8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government then money suddenly appears.

9)The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don't call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee.

10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it. Despite paying into the health care system all these years. My friend is 65 years old. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health care costs.

11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.

12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figger. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get healthy.

13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums.

14) Oh yeh we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy. Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not covered but the health care system.

I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in the states you will be hearing more and more about universal health care down there and the advocates will be pointing to Canada. I just want to make sure that you hear the truth about health care up here and have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when broached with this subject.

Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have.

He is claiming he pays almost 100 a month for him and his wife, and gets taxed 55% as well, and cannot be seen by a doctor other then if he is sick, to get pills. Anything more and your put on a waiting list that is backed up for years on end that some people are dying while waiting to be seen to get operated on. Ontop of that, you can only be operated on so many times a year, if your a smoker they drop you, and talk of if your obese they have plans of dropping them next, WTMF.

Is this really true? Your free health care is that bad?

I Can definitely agree on parts 4 , 11, 12 i have seen this happen in the Last 7 months after my Dad had a stroke....fucking assholes wouldn't do anything, couldn't get him into any rehab centers, they just left him to rot in a hospital which was more of a pshyco ward than anything.
 

HannibalX

Diamond Member
May 12, 2000
9,359
2
0
Originally posted by: funboy42
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: funboy42
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Why doesn't your wife look for a job that includes family medical? They aren't that hard to find.

Her job does have it, just for her though she would have to pay $150 a month, then it is a extra $100 per family member so it would be $450 a month if we all went on the plan when she brings home $100 a month, even if we just did her and the kids we couldnt afford it, and she must have it in order to put others on it. Once I can get on ssi she plans to keep working and then we will be using it, and her working will be paying for the kids insurance, but till that time, were still screwed if I cant get on SSI right away.

Ok... I can understand how that could not be affordable for you, but if she just covers herself and you, it would be 250/mo and it should cover most of the prescriptions' cost. You're kids still aren't covered but that detuction would still save you money, wouldn't it?

There are still plenty of union jobs that have wonderful benefits. My dad has the Cadillac package, it costs $97/mo and covers everyone in the family (luckily I'm still covered). While I believe it's a drain on the employer, the fact is those jobs are out there and can be had.

I wish it could be that simple. Even at that point, were still talking bills, feeding a family of 4, we already shop at save a lot and get only whats needed and we only spend 300 a month, and thats food stamps, so that will need to come out of her check, then $400 for bills gas, electricity, auto insurance, gas to get to work and where needed, and have something left over in case the kids may need something for school, and when it is all said and done, can afford to get my wife on it, and thats it,, MAYBE. And lets not forget, and I will have to look into it, my rate may be based on being healthy. I may be subject to existing conditions, and need to take a health exam, I know my last time I got work insurance they made me get a physical, so would need to see if that is a factor two. I never went that far yet, just because we cant afford where it is at now.

But my main point for sharing the information was to show that you can be told you have no insurance, including your kids here in America. Welfare is not the "answer" as some may think. You need to be put on the system to see its loopholes and bs you need to deal with to get on it, keep it, and for those who need it, get taken off it, as it is set up only to keep the ones who want to milk it on it. Not for really help for those in need, a front to take in taxes, and srew those who desperately need it and get denied it, unless they follow the rules which are to stay poor, dont better yourself, hardly work, and we will give you food stamps, money, and insurance. You try to better yourself, like get a full time job, and we cut you off everything, even though, on your full time job cant afford to get what we gave, forcing you to go back on the system with no other way out.

You are obviously able to use a computer and sit at a desk. You need to get a job at a call center. My wife and I live in Cookeville, TN and there are two call centers here. My wife works at one of them. If you can talk on the phone and sit and use the computer you can ear $10/hour full time with full benefits. I can't help you get a job but I can tell you where to start.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Throckmorton

What makes you think the Government fvcks everything up?

because everything the government does gets fucked up and/or costs 4x what it should

Hmm... social security, our welfare system, medicare comes to mind - which is already going broke.

Would someone like to add to my short list?

Well I don't see any complaints about the interstate highway system, the internet, GPS, the Park Service, NOAA, the FBI, the Coast Guard, and all the agencies and works of the federal government that you don't know about.
 

intogamer

Lifer
Dec 5, 2004
19,219
1
76
Originally posted by: D1gger
The letter you received is full of gross exaggerations and half truths. The health care system here is not perfect, but it is very good. My son has had some serious health challenges growing up and received terrific, timely care. I myself have been hospitalized twice in the last 5 years, and I have no complaints.

My Dad had a double bypass and valve replacement a few years ago, surgery was scheduled 3 days after his first appointment with the specialist, which was 4 days after his annual physical when our family doctor diagnosed a problem.

I can give you many more examples of people who received the care they needed, when they needed it, but there will always be the stories of the people who died that get sensationalized.

How many people die in the US without even seeing a doctor because they don't have health insurance?

My personal opinion is that we need more of a hybrid solution to health care. Full care for every citizen, but allow for more privatization of the system so if someone can afford to pay to have a problem fixed faster, let them do that through a private clinic.

Yeah but healthcare is still business. You gotta fight for it. Just as if you were to fight to live.
 

Sphexi

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2005
7,280
0
0
"13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums"

Seriously, then why the hell am I paying premiums? I had to wait 90 days at my job for full medical/dental like everyone else, and MSP/BC requires me to pay just as much as everybody else. I don't even use the system, except for a few dental visits and one visit to the doctor, wish I wasn't paying for it.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
Most people here get what they need when they need it. The system isn't perfect, but it mostly works.

The problem is most people here hold the system in such high esteem that any hint of change is heresy. Most of the problems here are due to the bureaucracy being too fat and inefficient. As such it costs a lot just to run the system, let alone treat patients.

I for one would love to see some kind of honest inquiry into a public/private partnership. Keep most hospitals publicly run and guaranteed for all citizens, but allow private hospitals to start up which may receive the same level of funding from the government. Beyond that, the user pays costs either from their pocket or health insurance. This way the private hospitals can attract back some of the top talent and pay them well, and the patients that need/want that treatment can get it. It wouldn't even have to be that big of a privately run system, maybe only 5% of the overall system size could be private. Perhaps one large hospital in every major city.
 

pstylesss

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,914
0
0
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Throckmorton

What makes you think the Government fvcks everything up?

because everything the government does gets fucked up and/or costs 4x what it should

Hmm... social security, our welfare system, medicare comes to mind - which is already going broke.

Would someone like to add to my short list?

Well I don't see any complaints about the interstate highway system, the internet, GPS, the Park Service, NOAA, the FBI, the Coast Guard, and all the agencies and works of the federal government that you don't know about.

Internet: ?
Interstate: Plenty of complaints about the way the roads are designed to construction/no construction
GPS: After satellites are in space, its private companies that run GPS systems for citizens
Parks Service: You're joking, right? I'm sure if anyone cared there would be plenty of different complaints about things decidided by those people. I don't have much faith in my local Parks Director or some of his staff. One of them is beyond stupid...

But, I was talking about social services, as you can see from my list.
 

funboy6942

Lifer
Nov 13, 2001
15,368
418
126
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: funboy42
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: funboy42
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Why doesn't your wife look for a job that includes family medical? They aren't that hard to find.

Her job does have it, just for her though she would have to pay $150 a month, then it is a extra $100 per family member so it would be $450 a month if we all went on the plan when she brings home $100 a month, even if we just did her and the kids we couldnt afford it, and she must have it in order to put others on it. Once I can get on ssi she plans to keep working and then we will be using it, and her working will be paying for the kids insurance, but till that time, were still screwed if I cant get on SSI right away.

Ok... I can understand how that could not be affordable for you, but if she just covers herself and you, it would be 250/mo and it should cover most of the prescriptions' cost. You're kids still aren't covered but that detuction would still save you money, wouldn't it?

There are still plenty of union jobs that have wonderful benefits. My dad has the Cadillac package, it costs $97/mo and covers everyone in the family (luckily I'm still covered). While I believe it's a drain on the employer, the fact is those jobs are out there and can be had.

I wish it could be that simple. Even at that point, were still talking bills, feeding a family of 4, we already shop at save a lot and get only whats needed and we only spend 300 a month, and thats food stamps, so that will need to come out of her check, then $400 for bills gas, electricity, auto insurance, gas to get to work and where needed, and have something left over in case the kids may need something for school, and when it is all said and done, can afford to get my wife on it, and thats it,, MAYBE. And lets not forget, and I will have to look into it, my rate may be based on being healthy. I may be subject to existing conditions, and need to take a health exam, I know my last time I got work insurance they made me get a physical, so would need to see if that is a factor two. I never went that far yet, just because we cant afford where it is at now.

But my main point for sharing the information was to show that you can be told you have no insurance, including your kids here in America. Welfare is not the "answer" as some may think. You need to be put on the system to see its loopholes and bs you need to deal with to get on it, keep it, and for those who need it, get taken off it, as it is set up only to keep the ones who want to milk it on it. Not for really help for those in need, a front to take in taxes, and srew those who desperately need it and get denied it, unless they follow the rules which are to stay poor, dont better yourself, hardly work, and we will give you food stamps, money, and insurance. You try to better yourself, like get a full time job, and we cut you off everything, even though, on your full time job cant afford to get what we gave, forcing you to go back on the system with no other way out.

You are obviously able to use a computer and sit at a desk. You need to get a job at a call center. My wife and I live in Cookeville, TN and there are two call centers here. My wife works at one of them. If you can talk on the phone and sit and use the computer you can ear $10/hour full time with full benefits. I can't help you get a job but I can tell you where to start.

The problem I have is I cant always do it, and I am high 24/7. I am sitting here in great paid from my back and my head, and most the time cannot think straight. And once I get a migraine to break free of the drug, 1-2 times a day, I am worthless. I cant do a thing, like right now, its taking me forever to write this to you.

I so badly want to work again but in my condition, the way I am on and off the drugs, and without them I cant talk, look, keep my head up, and I shake all over. So I may be able to post now and then, and there are times I have a good day and I can get some stuff done, and there are days I cant get out of bed, and then the days I feel good once I try to do something, I put myself right into pain once I start to try to do something. And this cycle kills me. I cant leave my house for once I go south its really bad for me, and for me to be away from home only makes it worse, and worse for my family to have to quit what it is we were doing so that I can get home, so I just sit here, or in my chair, or in bed waiting for the day to pass. And because of my health care, they dont want to find out why I am like this, just that for the most part the pills I take dont let it get full blown all the time like it used to and they are happy with that. And for me to go change doctors really messes up my care I am getting now, and a delay in my pills. 2 days off my pills, just for pain, and I am screwed, my migraines are back in full force 24/ all day, all night, and never let up. I used to get them once twice a year, then per month, and then within the last year it because every day all day. I been on oxycotton, hydrocodone, horse tranquilizers, and been shot up at the doctors and hospital with who knows what, just for head pain, and all it did was make me higher then a kite or pass me out but still had to deal with the pain. Im not on any of them anymore, thank god, but on some others that the paid in still there on the left rear half of my head, but not near as bad as it would be if I was not on the stuff. And Im not effected by light, or sound, or anything a normal person with a migraine would have either. And once I got the full blown one going thats it, put a fork in me Im done and need to ride it out no matter how long it may take for it to go away on its own. Sometimes hours, sometimes days.

So I am able to function once in a while, not often. I cant cook meals on my own anymore, and need help alot of times just to get up and to the bathroom. I just want to get on SSI and hope I get better medical care, find out what the hell is going on, hope what ever it is is not to late to take care of it, and become sorta normal again so I can do some sort of work. I hate sitting here all day, doing a RC model here and there when I can, just so sometimes when I feel good enough I can do something with my boys for a bit in the back yard or at the pond.

And as for talking I can hardly talk anymore, which I told my doctor about. I stutter bad now, and can make more sense typing then I could if I were to talk to someone on the phone. There are times on the phone I can speak fine, then like someone threw on a switch, Im fucked and cant get anything to come out my mouth, and Im not really on anything that would cause that, and its getting worse. I can usually get something out short really quick, but to hold a conversation, forget it. And I have to go over in my head what I want to say several times before I can ever sorta get to spit it out.

And this is just over my head, not even about my back and legs which was the start of this all that made me disabled to begin with ;)

I soooo appreciate the offer, and would take it or anything in a heartbeat, but there is nothing I can do right now, my hands are completely tied by the system.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
Originally posted by: funboy42
Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Originally posted by: funboy42
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: funboy42
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Why doesn't your wife look for a job that includes family medical? They aren't that hard to find.

Her job does have it, just for her though she would have to pay $150 a month, then it is a ....

Sorry, I remember the thread but forgot. What happened again? Accident at work?
 

potato28

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
8,964
0
0
The ER waits are gone. Unless you've been brought in by an ambulance, you need a referral from a doctor to be treated. A lot of that stuff in the email is BS, and some of it can be the same in the US.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: potato28
The ER waits are gone. Unless you've been brought in by an ambulance, you need a referral from a doctor to be treated. A lot of that stuff in the email is BS, and some of it can be the same in the US.

When did this take effect? I went to the ER without any referral maybe six months ago and had no such question asked. I don't even have a family doctor at present.
 

funboy6942

Lifer
Nov 13, 2001
15,368
418
126


Sorry, I remember the thread but forgot. What happened again? Accident at work?

I got hurt at work, they dropped the ball on me, gave me late to no care for my injury, went to the court, dragged on for 2 years as I got worse, and welfare did all they could to make life for us even worse, almost became homeless several times, and had no food to eat that many here, I cant remember who, I am sorry, I lost all memory as well, that came to our aide, and many who made it bad for us trying their damness to prove I was faking it, even though some members came and saw us in person and had doctors papers to prove it all. Did what I could at the time they offered me to settle to get my family out of the trailer park with the drug dealers and the real live hooker few trailers down from us. Moved down here to Dyer TN where I bought my home and paid for for $49.5K and tried to better my families way of life with what I was given, and lower all my bills as low as I could, and pay everyone off I had to pay, so that we wouldnt get into anymore trouble.

Part of my settlement agreement was that for 2 1/2 years I could not apply for SSI or the government would take a portion of it to pay back the SSI I am to get. Yup thats right, they wont tax me on the settlement I got, but would take up to 3/4ths of it if I went on SSI right away. And if I had done that would never of been able to have gotten us out of that hell hole at the trailer, EVER. This Dec 24th is the end of my 2 1/2 years which on Dec 26th will be on the front door step of the social security building, provided they are open that day.

So when I got it I was do I use it to see my own doctor and get my back looked at which I was told by 7 doctors that where it is at and because where it is at I have spinal bifida (sp) couldnt be operated on for if they did chances are really good I wouldnt walk again, thought I sorta still can with great pain. Also once they open me up will then start the cycle of always being on the chopping block so its best I wait as long as I can. 2 give the government part of my settlement so I can collect SSI which would never be enough to buy a home on to get us out of the hell hole and my kids go to some of the worst, gang related, drug infested schools in the country. Or 3, find a home cheap enough I can pay off, pay off the cars, and all my bills and wait it out. I did #3 just had no idea I would get so bad as I have physically so fast, or that the welfare down here would pull the plug on a family that wants to work, but because the want to work gets taken off. And not only that, can care less as to why I cant talk, cant remember much of anything without notes, and am in great pain all the time, would rather throw pills at me and hope I die soon, then find out why I have the pain so I dont die soon leaving my wife and kids without a father and a husband.

Isnt the system grand :D
Damned if you, damned if you dont
Damned if you try to better yourself and get off or out.

My only hope is I can get on SSI before I die. One thing I will have going for me is when I go into the office and Im not on my pills. my wife is going to have to roll me in there and speak for me, because at that time when they see me, I wont be able to do nothing more then cry. Without my pills I wont be able to look at them, my head and hands are sure to shake, I can only look at the floor, and forget about me speaking, its hard now for me too, it will be even harder when my head feels like someone is splitting it open and am flopping around like a fish out of water in my wheelchair. That may work to my advantage of getting me approved on SSI faster without the need of a lawyer. I hope.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,537
19,964
136
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Internet: ?
Interstate: Plenty of complaints about the way the roads are designed to construction/no construction
GPS: After satellites are in space, its private companies that run GPS systems for citizens
Parks Service: You're joking, right? I'm sure if anyone cared there would be plenty of different complaints about things decidided by those people. I don't have much faith in my local Parks Director or some of his staff. One of them is beyond stupid...

But, I was talking about social services, as you can see from my list.

No, the US Government is still responsible for the GPS satellites. That's why other countries are launching their own systems.
 

eakers

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
12,169
2
0
10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it. Despite paying into the health care system all these years. My friend is 65 years old. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health care costs.
not true.
They absolutely do not deny medical operations that are needed to smokers. My grandfather got all kinds of treatment for lung cancer while being an avid smoker.

What is probably referred to here is varicose veins which (in Ontario at least) if they are the superficial type you can't get them fixed because it is deemed cosmetic BUT if you want to pay to have a cosmetic operation done then you can.

What I find absolutely disgusting/upsetting is that OHIP will pay for gastric bypass surgery. So denying operations to obese people is defiantly not happening here except when a person is so obese that an operation would risk their lives more than save it.

I bitch a lot about our medical system but overall, I'm very grateful to have it.

The ER waits are gone. Unless you've been brought in by an ambulance, you need a referral from a doctor to be treated. A lot of that stuff in the email is BS, and some of it can be the same in the US.
not true in Ontario. Here they have opened "family health networks" where you can go for after hours to see a doctor if you need to and it is not an emergency. If it is an emergency you can go to the ER, you just have to wait so unless you truly have an emergency, you don't want to go. How else are people supposed to have babies and get emergencies (like a baby with a high fever in the middle of the night) treated?
 

pstylesss

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,914
0
0
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ

Internet: ?
Interstate: Plenty of complaints about the way the roads are designed to construction/no construction
GPS: After satellites are in space, its private companies that run GPS systems for citizens
Parks Service: You're joking, right? I'm sure if anyone cared there would be plenty of different complaints about things decidided by those people. I don't have much faith in my local Parks Director or some of his staff. One of them is beyond stupid...

But, I was talking about social services, as you can see from my list.

No, the US Government is still responsible for the GPS satellites. That's why other countries are launching their own systems.

Thats what I said...
 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
Sounds about the same as here, only cheaper, but with more taxes to me.

Here (US):

1. I pay over $100/month plus $30 per visit ($50 for specialists) and $25-$50 for medications. I pay 28% taxes. How much of that 55% is actually health care though? I'd like to see the budget breakdown.

2. Same thing here. Any specialist appointment takes months, unless it is classified as an emergency.

3. Same thing here. Don't think it relates to moving patients quickly. It has to do with unnecessary procedures that have a low probability of finding anything. If you want those procedures, fake a more serious illness than you have I guess. My doctor won't do an MRI on my back unless I tell him the pain is severe, because the only recourse if it found something is surgery or injections, neither of which are warranted with only mild pain.

4. Many americans don't have a family doctor and can't afford to even get one. Those that do often have to switch them around at least half a dozen times in their life. It's rare to have a really good family doctor anyway. Usually they forget most of the stuff about you and have to look in your file anyway.

5. Same thing here. See numerous threads about ER wait times.

6. Same thing here if you have health insurance in many cases.

7. Could have been a high risk candidate or any other reasons. People die on waiting lists all the time. At least they were put on the waiting list, many people are not even put on it in the first place. If the procedure is not high risk and is an emergency, I bet you'd get it, just as you would here.

8. Don't know about that one, sounds bogus to me one way or another (either false or true and stupid)

9. The government here does the same thing, only I never actually get any benefit AT ALL, much less lowered wait times, since I can't even "get in line" in the first place.

10. Good. They often do the same thing here. My step-mother was not allowed to donate a kidney to my father due to weight issues. Many times, surgeries are not done if the candidate's chances of a healthy life afterwards are low (due to smoking or heavy drinking, etc.). Pretty common here too.

11. Sometimes that's true here too. Many insurances have "primary care providers" and you can't just go see joe schmoe instead. You need a referral or to switch your PCP. But that's not really a second opinion since you now have a new doctor. Still, sounds worse over there. I grant this one, if true.

12. True to a more limited degree here. If you are on a waiting list for an organ, you can't buy your way to the top.

13. True here too, at least in ERs

14. Aren't those two different programs?
 

Scouzer

Lifer
Jun 3, 2001
10,358
5
0
Wow that list is fucked.

I pay 23.71% total income taxes. That's with $49k taxable income.

I pay no health care premiums.

Every province is different...these all-encompassing statements are totally unreasonable

I wouldn't trade public health care for the world. It does a good job for a reasonable cost.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Throckmorton

What makes you think the Government fvcks everything up?

because everything the government does gets fucked up and/or costs 4x what it should

Hmm... social security, our welfare system, medicare comes to mind - which is already going broke.

Would someone like to add to my short list?

Well I don't see any complaints about the interstate highway system, the internet, GPS, the Park Service, NOAA, the FBI, the Coast Guard, and all the agencies and works of the federal government that you don't know about.

Internet: ?
Interstate: Plenty of complaints about the way the roads are designed to construction/no construction
GPS: After satellites are in space, its private companies that run GPS systems for citizens
Parks Service: You're joking, right? I'm sure if anyone cared there would be plenty of different complaints about things decidided by those people. I don't have much faith in my local Parks Director or some of his staff. One of them is beyond stupid...

But, I was talking about social services, as you can see from my list.

The US government, mainly the military, pioneered the internet.

Overall, the interestate system has been a good thing in the eyes of most people. Would you prefer a privatized system like the tollways we have in a lot of cities now?

Getting the satellites into space and the working of the base stations are the bulk of the work. Synchronizing satellites' orbits, tracking them, replacing them when they fail, etc is not easy at all. A GPS reciever is a relatively simple piece of equipment, which is why they can be had for under $100.

The problems with the NPS can be traced to lack of funding and the resulting understaffing. This is a problem caused by small government advocates like the current administration. It sure doesn't help having Dept of the Interior directors who are former logging lobbyists...
 

pstylesss

Platinum Member
Mar 21, 2007
2,914
0
0
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Throckmorton

What makes you think the Government fvcks everything up?

because everything the government does gets fucked up and/or costs 4x what it should

Hmm... social security, our welfare system, medicare comes to mind - which is already going broke.

Would someone like to add to my short list?

Well I don't see any complaints about the interstate highway system, the internet, GPS, the Park Service, NOAA, the FBI, the Coast Guard, and all the agencies and works of the federal government that you don't know about.

Internet: ?
Interstate: Plenty of complaints about the way the roads are designed to construction/no construction
GPS: After satellites are in space, its private companies that run GPS systems for citizens
Parks Service: You're joking, right? I'm sure if anyone cared there would be plenty of different complaints about things decidided by those people. I don't have much faith in my local Parks Director or some of his staff. One of them is beyond stupid...

But, I was talking about social services, as you can see from my list.

The US government, mainly the military, pioneered the internet.

Overall, the interestate system has been a good thing in the eyes of most people. Would you prefer a privatized system like the tollways we have in a lot of cities now?

Getting the satellites into space and the working of the base stations are the bulk of the work. Synchronizing satellites' orbits, tracking them, replacing them when they fail, etc is not easy at all. A GPS reciever is a relatively simple piece of equipment, which is why they can be had for under $100.

The problems with the NPS can be traced to lack of funding and the resulting understaffing. This is a problem caused by small government advocates like the current administration. It sure doesn't help having Dept of the Interior directors who are former logging lobbyists...

They invented the internet, that doesn't mean they control it, they are not our ISPs.
The government does not control the GPS subscriptions that citizens use. I would bet my life on a private company doing better than NASA given the capital.

I'm not sure what you mean by a tollway, but if I'm right, tollways aren't here because of privatization, they are here because the government does not have the funding to build whatever road it is for. Another reason is the belief that only people who drive the roads should be taxed for them and it being more fair that way. I can say that people in Washington State are not happy with the roads, specifically the interstates.

I don't care about the NPS, but I can tell you that one of the reasons America was formed was to get away from big government, not create another one.

The term small government does not have to do with the amount of staff, but the amount the government controls.

NPS, Launching and upkeep of satellites, the internet, and interstates are not really social services anyway.

 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Throckmorton

What makes you think the Government fvcks everything up?

because everything the government does gets fucked up and/or costs 4x what it should

Hmm... social security, our welfare system, medicare comes to mind - which is already going broke.

Would someone like to add to my short list?

Well I don't see any complaints about the interstate highway system, the internet, GPS, the Park Service, NOAA, the FBI, the Coast Guard, and all the agencies and works of the federal government that you don't know about.

Internet: ?
Interstate: Plenty of complaints about the way the roads are designed to construction/no construction
GPS: After satellites are in space, its private companies that run GPS systems for citizens
Parks Service: You're joking, right? I'm sure if anyone cared there would be plenty of different complaints about things decidided by those people. I don't have much faith in my local Parks Director or some of his staff. One of them is beyond stupid...

But, I was talking about social services, as you can see from my list.

The US government, mainly the military, pioneered the internet.

Overall, the interestate system has been a good thing in the eyes of most people. Would you prefer a privatized system like the tollways we have in a lot of cities now?

Getting the satellites into space and the working of the base stations are the bulk of the work. Synchronizing satellites' orbits, tracking them, replacing them when they fail, etc is not easy at all. A GPS reciever is a relatively simple piece of equipment, which is why they can be had for under $100.

The problems with the NPS can be traced to lack of funding and the resulting understaffing. This is a problem caused by small government advocates like the current administration. It sure doesn't help having Dept of the Interior directors who are former logging lobbyists...

They invented the internet, that doesn't mean they control it, they are not our ISPs.
The government does not control the GPS subscriptions that citizens use. I would bet my life on a private company doing better than NASA given the capital.

I'm not sure what you mean by a tollway, but if I'm right, tollways aren't here because of privatization, they are here because the government does not have the funding to build whatever road it is for. Another reason is the belief that only people who drive the roads should be taxed for them and it being more fair that way. I can say that people in Washington State are not happy with the roads, specifically the interstates.

I don't care about the NPS, but I can tell you that one of the reasons America was formed was to get away from big government, not create another one.

The term small government does not have to do with the amount of staff, but the amount the government controls.

NPS, Launching and upkeep of satellites, the internet, and interstates are not really social services anyway.

GPS subscriptions? GPS is totally free to use. Chances are you WOULD have GPS subscriptions if private companies created it... DRMed global positioning by Sony, anyone?

Look at satellite imagery. Landsat data is free because it's created by the government. Ever try using Google Earth's imagery for GIS? You can't because it's private. You'd have to pay huge sums of money. You can take the Landsat images from NASA World Wind and do anything with it. Plus World Wind is open source. Sponsored by the public = free for public use.