Originally posted by: Looney
Why was he read the riot acts?
Anyways, there has been so much drama up here... first we thought there was going to be a forced election. And then Belinda Stronach, who came in second for the Tory leadership (conservative party), defected and went to the Liberals (and broke up with her boyfriend and deputy leader MacKay in the process!)... i don't know what's going on, but the Tory's are just bad losers. Instead of strategizing for the next election, they're just trying hijack this one... and teaming up with the Bloc (Quebec's party... which have always been polar opposites of the Tories) to try to do it!
Personally, there's too much to lose if an election is held now... if the Liberal loses, and the Tories win (which i doubt... polls are still decidedly Liberals, so i have no idea why they keep trying), there's a real chance Quebec might finally seperate.
Harper may be socially and fiscally conservative, but his party is not socially conservative and the Tories are so similar to the Liberals it's not even funny.
The only reason they are afraid to bring them to power is because they are afraid to see the Conservatives govern and govern well.
The people of Canada are sick of Paul Martin and the Liberals, we need a campaign to clear the misperceptions of the Tories. Fear mongering by the Liberals is just disgusting, reminds me of the Swiftboat smearing last election in the States.
Originally posted by: Stunt
Harper may be socially and fiscally conservative, but his party is not socially conservative and the Tories are so similar to the Liberals it's not even funny. The only reason they are afraid to bring them to power is because they are afraid to see the Conservatives govern and govern well.
The people of Canada are sick of Paul Martin and the Liberals, we need a campaign to clear the misperceptions of the Tories. Fear mongering by the Liberals is just disgusting, reminds me of the Swiftboat smearing last election in the States.
All 3 major parties voted against the Liberal budget originally and the only reason the NDP is proping them up is because of the crazy spending spree. The Tories and Bloc share the same concerns as the rest of the country, you cannot complain about a similar opinion...especially when you yourself say they are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.
Originally posted by: Stunt
"I know, which is why if there was a more moderate leader, i would have voted... and i'm sure a lot of other Canadians."
Harper is a moderate, he just has differing views on abortion, the rest of his views are in line with most Canadians. Like Chretien (staunch catholic), Harper leaves his personal social views at the door when considering policies. This is precisely why the Conservative party supports choice and creating policies like: policy on clean government and new government grant procedures, adoption of the kyoto protocol, advocating choice on the topic of abortion, more spending on healthcare and a revamp of the equalization payment program.
"Oh come on, that's just sophomoric reasoning. We're afraid to have the Conservatives govern, because we're afraid they're going to govern well? Please."
The NDP voters was scared into voting Liberal last time as the Liberals created a bunch of false accusations giving harper a bad name. Similar to the smear campain in the US against Kerry, you are always going to have negative comments about a leader; one must cut through the crap and propoganda.
"Not according to all the polls i've seen. Most don't want a re-election."
Most Canadians are not happy with the Liberal government, they just don't see another option as the Liberals have scared people out of their nationality/patriotism. Look at some of these opinions (Globe and Mail):
"61 per cent of Canadians surveyed believe the prime minister is the federal political leader most likely to tell a lie if it would help him politically. Only 26 per cent believe that of Conservative Leader Stephen Harper."
"When asked which party leader is the most hypocritical, 54 per cent chose Mr. Martin, compared to 29 per cent for Mr. Harper."
"In a similar vein, 63 per cent thought Mr. Martin the most dishonest, compared with 20 per cent for Mr. Harper."
"15 to 25 per cent of those surveyed would vote Liberal, yet are still prepared to ascribe "really, really awful attributes to Paul Martin""
"In Ontario, Tories lead with 35 per cent with the Liberals behind by one percentage point."
Nope.Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Stunt
Harper may be socially and fiscally conservative, but his party is not socially conservative and the Tories are so similar to the Liberals it's not even funny. The only reason they are afraid to bring them to power is because they are afraid to see the Conservatives govern and govern well.
The people of Canada are sick of Paul Martin and the Liberals, we need a campaign to clear the misperceptions of the Tories. Fear mongering by the Liberals is just disgusting, reminds me of the Swiftboat smearing last election in the States.
All 3 major parties voted against the Liberal budget originally and the only reason the NDP is proping them up is because of the crazy spending spree. The Tories and Bloc share the same concerns as the rest of the country, you cannot complain about a similar opinion...especially when you yourself say they are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.
Nope, not afraid of that at all. I'm just not convinced about the ' his party is not socially conservative ' part.
Stronach would have been a much better choice for the leader of a national party, trying to grow beyond it's western regionalist roots.
Actually, anyone who wasn't highly placed in the Reform/Alliance would have been a better choice to lead a national party.
I'm interested in these tapes - I don't necessarlity doubt their validity, but I suspect that the recordings are illegal, which could be a bit of a downer for the MP who actually made the recordings.Originally posted by: Stunt
Nope.Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Stunt
Harper may be socially and fiscally conservative, but his party is not socially conservative and the Tories are so similar to the Liberals it's not even funny. The only reason they are afraid to bring them to power is because they are afraid to see the Conservatives govern and govern well.
The people of Canada are sick of Paul Martin and the Liberals, we need a campaign to clear the misperceptions of the Tories. Fear mongering by the Liberals is just disgusting, reminds me of the Swiftboat smearing last election in the States.
All 3 major parties voted against the Liberal budget originally and the only reason the NDP is proping them up is because of the crazy spending spree. The Tories and Bloc share the same concerns as the rest of the country, you cannot complain about a similar opinion...especially when you yourself say they are on opposite sides of the political spectrum.
Nope, not afraid of that at all. I'm just not convinced about the ' his party is not socially conservative ' part.
Stronach would have been a much better choice for the leader of a national party, trying to grow beyond it's western regionalist roots.
Actually, anyone who wasn't highly placed in the Reform/Alliance would have been a better choice to lead a national party.
Anyone who cannot speak French and was polling the worst of the three leaders in Quebec during the leadership election is not fit to lead a national party.
Of course people will give Paul Martin the nod for PM as he is already. Look at Bush, lowest approval numbers ever, yet wins elections and is more presidential.
People think Martin and the Liberal party are crooks, and they are.
Originally posted by: Stunt
I think Grewal was in the wrong for the tapes...I still think that the Liberals actions the past month have been disgusting at best.
Harper is an excellent leader, the only downside i see is perhaps his passion. But again, i'd rather see good policy, good ideas, good team, and content over a little bit of passion (Martin doesn't accel at this). Harper has been smeared by the Liberals and the NDP to the point people think he isn't a moderate.
Please explain how he is not moderate, and define moderate.
I have heard this as well. The Gazette had a big article on this. Tory support is concentrated in Quebec, unlike NDP, and will probably get seats in Quebec next election under Harper.Originally posted by: Mokmo418
Whatever the case, i wouldn't be surprised to see a few counties turn tory blue in Quebec this year.
Originally posted by: Stunt
The people of Canada are sick of Paul Martin and the Liberals, we need a campaign to clear the misperceptions of the Tories. Fear mongering by the Liberals is just disgusting, reminds me of the Swiftboat smearing last election in the States.
Originally posted by: Stunt
abortion is a non-issue as many people voice this concern and has absolutely no representation in the House of Commons. The Conservative Party of Canada is pro-choice and i see Harper's opinion no worse than Liberals who are pro-life. Everyone can agree this will never become legislation, would kill the party forever and should not be a concern for any intelligent voter.
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: Stunt
The people of Canada are sick of Paul Martin and the Liberals, we need a campaign to clear the misperceptions of the Tories. Fear mongering by the Liberals is just disgusting, reminds me of the Swiftboat smearing last election in the States.
The Tories look to be a frightening group of people (if you are not white, male, christian and heterosexual that is - of course you will be OK, Stunt)
Originally posted by: stratman
I also think you are projecting repub traits on the Conservative party. IMO, the Conservative party here is farther left on the political spectrum then the Democrats in America.
Originally posted by: stratman
Furthermore, I kinda wish you wouldn't bring up sexuality, race, gender, and religion as accusations as a way of discrediting someone's opinion. I think it's what's on the inside that counts, not the colour of your skin.
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: stratman
I also think you are projecting repub traits on the Conservative party. IMO, the Conservative party here is farther left on the political spectrum then the Democrats in America.
The question is whether the canadian conservative party is about to take a sharp dive to the right. There are some indications that this is the case.
Originally posted by: stratman
Furthermore, I kinda wish you wouldn't bring up sexuality, race, gender, and religion as accusations as a way of discrediting someone's opinion. I think it's what's on the inside that counts, not the colour of your skin.
My point is that white, male and heterosexual so-called 'fiscal conservatives' are often quite willing to put up with social illiberalism and persecution of disliked minorities (queers) if it means their guy gets elected. I doubt they'd be so willing if it was whites heteros or christians being persecuted.