Can the US thrive as a 99% service economy?

[pete6032]

Manufacturing is coming back. Not in the form of low wage production jobs that were off shored, but in the form of advanced manufacturing with new technologies that only an educated workforce can operate.

 

[norseamd]

Manufacturing is coming back. Not in the form of low wage production jobs that were off shored, but in the form of advanced manufacturing with new technologies that only an educated workforce can operate.

You realize that the Chinese also have lots of intelligent citizens? Stuff like perfection and intelligence have had a place in Chinese culture for millennia.

 

[DrPizza]

Manufacturing is coming back. Not in the form of low wage production jobs that were off shored, but in the form of advanced manufacturing with new technologies that only an educated workforce can operate.

In case you haven't noticed, the top 10 percent of students in India and China are more than all of the United States. They're on the cusp of having that educated work force; in fact, they may end up with a more educated work force.


Service jobs don't create wealth, they merely shift wealth around.

 

[1prophet]

Meh, eventually China's going to develop to the point where they have decent labor laws and all of the outsourced jobs will come back. It's already a lot less cost-effective than it used to be.

You must believe in trickle down economics too, since it's right up there with that democracy through free markets the corporations were peddling when outsourcing American jobs to China,

and the reason it is becoming less cost effective is because the American employee wages and what little benefits are left if any have been pushed down while the Chinese have risen, and the corporate types would have you believe that it is a good thing.

 

[Imp]

This is also true. Vietnam and Bangladesh are two of the fastest growing economies in the world right now. Eventually they may just move the jobs to some African countries.

That's what I've heard: China is doing their own partnering all over Africa for resources now. Manufacturing is probably on the way if it's not there already.

In case you haven't noticed, the top 10 percent of students in India and China are more than all of the United States. They're on the cusp of having that educated work force; in fact, they may end up with a more educated work force.

India + China = ~2.7 billion (>1/3 of the planet), and growing, people. Both are renowned for their attitude towards academic achievement. Any deficiencies they're addressing internally or by bringing specialists in from other countries (e.g. the West).

But don't worry, we can all be engineers, scientists, computer specialists, and whatever they tell us the Chinese and Indians can't be for some weird reason.

 

[pete6032]

In case you haven't noticed, the top 10 percent of students in India and China are more than all of the United States. They're on the cusp of having that educated work force; in fact, they may end up with a more educated work force.

As of now, the educated Chinese workforce doesn't seem to be in manufacturing as much as it is in other jobs with higher training requirements. Really the only way China competes in manufacturing is on price. There are several intagibles working in our favor on the U.S. side, too. Rising fuel costs, increased use of lean inventory management, and higher demand for customization, just-in-time production, and business-friendly intellectual property protection are all making manufacturers think about moving jobs back to the United States.

A couple of years ago The Atlantic had an article discussing the strengths of these intangibles and highlighting GE as a case study of re-shoring some jobs. Also check out the Reshoring Initiative.

 

[schmuckley]

In short-NO
Manufacturing is what made this country great.

 

[norseamd]

You know one idea I started thinking about a while ago was an alliance between Japan, Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, and India to contain and deal with the Chinese. Seems that at the very least there are increasing relations between the Indians and the Japanese. This article from a think tank from India calls for at least an alliance of India, Japan, and Vietnam.

http://www.eurasiareview.com/251020...rilateral-asian-strategic-coalition-analysis/

 

[gorcorps]

This is also true. Vietnam and Bangladesh are two of the fastest growing economies in the world right now. Eventually they may just move the jobs to some African countries.

great... all of our iphones are gonna come with ebola

 

[norseamd]

great... all of our iphones are gonna come with ebola

So what you are pointing out is that Hindu superbugs and Asian flus are superior product accessories?

 

[Chaotic42]

I'm hoping that 3D printing technology will expand out to large scale manufacturing, removing the need for things to be built elsewhere. If I were one of the movers and shakers, I'd be pushing that tech.

 

[SSSnail]

What? You mean apps aren't enough to run an economy?

 

[Engineer]

I'm hoping that 3D printing technology will expand out to large scale manufacturing, removing the need for things to be built elsewhere. If I were one of the movers and shakers, I'd be pushing that tech.

and just like machinery and robots, we would be buying the printers from offshore.

To answer the OP, no. We already fucked ourselves with what we have already done. We will be moving the fucking to the backside shortly, if we aren't already there. 99% service (many McService) jobs would be doing it dry.

 

[Chaotic42]

and just like machinery and robots, we would be buying the printers from offshore.

Maybe initially, but there's no reason why we'd have to keep that up. The real question in my mind is what would we do with all of the people who are currently doing easily automated jobs?

 

[Red Squirrel]

To fix the economy, tax the hell out of outsourcing. Countries need to do this. That includes off shore manufacturing. Companies do what's cheaper, so make outsourcing more expensive than in-sourcing and that means there are more jobs and more jobs means more people who can buy products and services.

 

[jpiniero]

Maybe initially, but there's no reason why we'd have to keep that up. The real question in my mind is what would we do with all of the people who are currently doing easily automated jobs?

We're due for a big war or two.

 

[Engineer]

Maybe initially, but there's no reason why we'd have to keep that up.

Really? Robots have been around for decades yet we still don't make a good one here (an no, Baxter from Think and Do Robotics isn't worth a shit even if he is cheap). Also, machinery importation has increased, not decreased. I see it year in and year out.

 

[Engineer]

To fix the economy, tax the hell out of outsourcing. Countries need to do this. That includes off shore manufacturing. Companies do what's cheaper, so make outsourcing more expensive than in-sourcing and that means there are more jobs and more jobs means more people who can buy products and services.

Tax? Hell, there is a big push for both sides here in the US to put more (so called) free trade agreements into place. We freely send our jobs to them and import everything else from them. I guess that's 'free'. Fair? Not so much.

Reagan dreamed of the fucking, Bush I warmed it up and Clinton stuck it in (slid it in so easy that we didn't know that we were getting fucked). The US middle class has been fucked....and the lube has run dry.

 

[darkxshade]

The only manufacturing the US needs is the printing of money. It's the only product that matters! Everything else can be outsourced. :ninja:

 

[smakme7757]

The only manufacturing the US needs is the printing of money. It's the only product that matters! Everything else can be outsourced. :ninja:

I know your just trolling

But.

Sure, right now and for the last 70 years. Maybe for the next 100 years.

But the crunch will come and money will have less value than food. The current economic model isn't designed with the long term future in mind. It will fall back on itself and a country like USA will be in the epicenter.

 

[Bateluer]

Not if we want to keep our status as a super power.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

The real question is can the US survive being driving by the top .oo1 percent, having the top 20 have decent-great lives , and everyone else being at some level of dependance or destistution? Being ground into dust just to survive. Because, that's the direction we're heading.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I don't see why it wouldn't work.... Plus, it wouldn't be all bad just sitting around servicing each other and swapping money back and forth.

 

[mmntech]

To fix the economy, tax the hell out of outsourcing. Countries need to do this. That includes off shore manufacturing. Companies do what's cheaper, so make outsourcing more expensive than in-sourcing and that means there are more jobs and more jobs means more people who can buy products and services.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Our entire economy is centered around cheap goods that are produced overseas. Real wages have stagnated since the 90s. It's only gotten worse since the recession.

If this were done, it would take several years to see any benefit. A lot of factories closed and were torn down. They'd have to be rebuilt. In the short term, the prices of basic consumer goods would spike, and push a lot of people over the edge.

I'm not sure what the solution is. North America is still teetering on the edge of another recession. Things are fine right now if you have a job. However, there's still a lot of folk unemployed, and not enough jobs to go around. With wages and job security for millennials still being fairly low, and boomers feeling the retirement pinch, they're going to hold off on big ticket purchases. That's the weak spot in the economy right now. Canada is also dealing with a housing bubble, which I think is going to burst sooner than later. Once again because millennials can't afford $500k homes, and boomers can't sell them. I just don't think we can survive on being nations of burger flippers.

 

[mikeymikec]

Service jobs don't create wealth, they merely shift wealth around.

Furthermore, they're dependent on the primary and secondary industries (farming, finding useful substances, manufacturing), so if a recession comes along, a country which relies too heavily on its service sector is going to feel the bite more than a country which spreads out its income across the available sectors.