Can Strong Video cards like 4870x2 be "underclocked" for the power savings? (re:24/7 desktop electricity bill)

[cbn]

At another tech website I saw a recent Video card power consumption roundup where electricity prices where mentioned.http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/...er,review-31495-4.html

It turns out that the electric bill is a great factor with respect to "cost of ownership".

For example a 4870x2 left on 24/7 (not under load) burns up almost $250 electricity per year.

In contrast a 4670 left on 24/7 (not under load) burns up only $30 electricity per year.

This definitely puts things into perspective for me when shopping for cards @ newegg or elsewhere. (For example $20 rebate on one particular card can be far less valuable if another card that doesn't happen to be on sale is more energy efficient.)

So does anyone know if "underclocking" via ATI tool would reduce power consumption during web-browsing and other non-demanding tasks? I mean seriously most of the time even the idle power of something like a 4870x2 is massive overkill.

Are there any tools I could buy to see if my "underclocking" was reducing my energy draw at the outlet?

 

[Rubycon]

Actually if the sleep feature in Vista worked RIGHT it would definitely save for those not compiling,folding, etc.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: Just learning
At another tech website I saw a recent Video card power consumption roundup where electricity prices where mentioned.http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/...er,review-31495-4.html

It turns out that the electric bill is a great factor with respect to "cost of ownership".

For example a 4870x2 left on 24/7 (not under load) burns up almost $250 electricity per year.

In contrast a 4670 left on 24/7 (not under load) burns up only $30 electricity per year.

This definitely puts things into perspective for me when shopping for cards @ newegg or elsewhere. (For example $20 rebate on one particular card can be far less valuable if another card that doesn't happen to be on sale is more energy efficient.)

So does anyone know if "underclocking" via ATI tool would reduce power consumption during web-browsing and other non-demanding tasks? I mean seriously most of the time even the idle power of something like a 4870x2 is massive overkill.

Are there any tools I could buy to see if my "underclocking" was reducing my energy draw at the outlet?

You can lower the core and memory speeds manually using CCC overclocking features, which would save some juice for 24/7 operations.

 

[thilanliyan]

I underclock AND undervolt my 4870 at idle to 550/400 at 1.08v using ATI Tray Tools.

 

[TemjinGold]

What happened to stuff like HybridPower anyway? I thought that was a great idea personally...

 

[MrK6]

Originally posted by: TemjinGold
What happened to stuff like HybridPower anyway? I thought that was a great idea personally...

Doesn't seem like ATI takes full advantage of the 4800 series power savings. I underclocked and undervolted my 4870 so that it'd run at about 35C idle during the hot summer. Couldn't give you an exact power measure, but it definitely saved some electricity (and heat).

OP, you should try out ATI Tray Tools like thilan29 mentioned. It's a fantastic little program that will really allow you to take full advantage of your 4870X2.

 

[chizow]

From what I've read the GDDR5 is what keeps the 4800s idle power so high. The problem is that when you downclock the RAM, you get some undesirable results, like screen flashing and corruption and such. I've seen similar fixes suggested with ATI Tools for even stock clocked parts. Hopefully this isn't a problem endemic of GDDR5, as I'm sure both vendors will make it the standard on the next-generation of parts.

 

[Rifter]

You guys in the states must be getting some really bad power rates, I just did the math and a 4870x2 drawing 180w at idle(rounded from 3 sites i checked) will cost me only $119 canadian per year. What do you guys pay for power down there?

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: chizow
The problem is that when you downclock the RAM, you get some undesirable results, like screen flashing and corruption and such.

I haven't experienced this and my ram is at 400MHz at idle from 1000MHz at load. I think SSChevy has his ram at 200MHz at idle and AFAIK he hasn't mentioned any issues either. Are you saying this happens on GDDR5 cards or all cards in general?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: thilan29
I haven't experienced this and my ram is at 400MHz at idle from 1000MHz at load. I think SSChevy has his ram at 200MHz at idle and AFAIK he hasn't mentioned any issues either. Are you saying this happens on GDDR5 cards or all cards in general?

Heres a recent thread with the symptoms

There's some longer discussions where the recommended workaround was to lock the clocks in ATT or underclock in the case of slightly overclocked memory to eliminate the flickering.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: TemjinGold
What happened to stuff like HybridPower anyway? I thought that was a great idea personally...

nV GT200 has it already, and I think (correct me if im wrong) ATi is now in the game with the 4890.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Just learning
At another tech website I saw a recent Video card power consumption roundup where electricity prices where mentioned.http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/...er,review-31495-4.html

It turns out that the electric bill is a great factor with respect to "cost of ownership".

For example a 4870x2 left on 24/7 (not under load) burns up almost $250 electricity per year.

In contrast a 4670 left on 24/7 (not under load) burns up only $30 electricity per year.

This definitely puts things into perspective for me when shopping for cards @ newegg or elsewhere. (For example $20 rebate on one particular card can be far less valuable if another card that doesn't happen to be on sale is more energy efficient.)

So does anyone know if "underclocking" via ATI tool would reduce power consumption during web-browsing and other non-demanding tasks? I mean seriously most of the time even the idle power of something like a 4870x2 is massive overkill.

Are there any tools I could buy to see if my "underclocking" was reducing my energy draw at the outlet?

Unless you keep your computer on 24/7, you won't see a huge difference in energy consumption between two solutions. For example, take a GTX 260 216 which consumes 184.8W at idle and 268W at load and compare that to a 4870X2 which idles at 229.4W and loads at 421.7W (figures are system power consumption and were taken from Anandtech's recent HD 4890 review). If you game for 2hrs a day and surf the net for another 2hrs every day of the week, the difference in your electrical bill between the two graphics solutions would be ~$1.26 each month or $15.12/year. Not really much to worry about.

Even if you gamed 4hrs a day and kept the computer on for the rest of the day doing menial tasks, the difference between the two cards would only be ~$4.79/month or $57.45/year. Starts to be more noticeable at that point but not many people use their computer like that I imagine.

Don't get me wrong, I think you're on the right track trying to find a way to lower idle consumption (something I'm looking into myself), but way too many people make a big deal about the difference in power consumption between graphics cards. It really doesn't add up to a whole lot at the end of the day.

Originally posted by: Rifterut
You guys in the states must be getting some really bad power rates, I just did the math and a 4870x2 drawing 180w at idle(rounded from 3 sites i checked) will cost me only $119 canadian per year. What do you guys pay for power down there?

Here is the average price through 2007.

 

[cbn]

Originally posted by: thilan29
I underclock AND undervolt my 4870 at idle to 550/400 at 1.08v using ATI Tray Tools.

Thanks for the advice.

I just downloaded that Program but I can't find the proper location in the menu for adjusting voltage? Where is that located?

After lowering voltage are you lowering clocks through ATI tray tools also? Or are you using ATI tool for that?

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: chizow
Heres a recent thread with the symptoms

There's some longer discussions where the recommended workaround was to lock the clocks in ATT or underclock in the case of slightly overclocked memory to eliminate the flickering.

I'm pretty sure that was because of the flickering caused by the driver continuously switching back and forth from 2D to 3D clocks even just sitting at the desktop which was present in the drivers after 8.11 up to 9.2 I think...nothing to do with problems with the ram itself. I was getting the same until I locked the clocks. If the ram is artifacting then yes you probably have to underclock it.

Originally posted by: Just learning
I just downloaded that Program but I can't find the proper location in the menu for adjusting voltage? Where is that located?

After lowering voltage are you lowering clocks through ATI tray tools also? Or are you using ATI tool for that?

Here's a screenshot:
http://i53.photobucket.com/alb...ilan29/Clipboard01.jpg

3D settings:
http://i53.photobucket.com/alb...ilan29/Clipboard02.jpg

The highlighted part is where you choose your voltage. Make a 2D and 3D profile with your fan, voltage, and clock settings and you can have the program automatically switch between the 2 when you are gaming by going to the "auto overclocking" menu. 1.08v is the lowest and 1.26v (stock 3D for 4870) is the highest voltage you can set so you won't damage your card.

MAKE SURE that if you undervolt the card you also underclock it in the profile (if you're testing FIRST underclock THEN undervolt). I use ATI Tray Tools for mostly everything with my card now. ATI Tool I haven't used since I got this card.

 

[cbn]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: chizow
Heres a recent thread with the symptoms

There's some longer discussions where the recommended workaround was to lock the clocks in ATT or underclock in the case of slightly overclocked memory to eliminate the flickering.

I'm pretty sure that was because of the flickering caused by the driver continuously switching back and forth from 2D to 3D clocks even just sitting at the desktop which was present in the drivers after 8.11 up to 9.2 I think...nothing to do with problems with the ram itself. I was getting the same until I locked the clocks. If the ram is artifacting then yes you probably have to underclock it.

Originally posted by: Just learning
I just downloaded that Program but I can't find the proper location in the menu for adjusting voltage? Where is that located?

After lowering voltage are you lowering clocks through ATI tray tools also? Or are you using ATI tool for that?

Here's a screenshot:
http://i53.photobucket.com/alb...ilan29/Clipboard01.jpg

3D settings:
http://i53.photobucket.com/alb...ilan29/Clipboard02.jpg

The highlighted part is where you choose your voltage. Make a 2D and 3D profile with your fan, voltage, and clock settings and you can have the program automatically switch between the 2 when you are gaming by going to the "auto overclocking" menu. 1.08v is the lowest and 1.26v (stock 3D for 4870) is the highest voltage you can set so you won't damage your card.

MAKE SURE that if you undervolt the card you also underclock it in the profile (if you're testing FIRST underclock THEN undervolt). I use ATI Tray Tools for mostly everything with my card now. ATI Tool I haven't used since I got this card.

Thanks for the info and screenshots.

I wonder how much energy that saves? (Unfortunately I seem to be one of those people that leaves my computer on way too much. In fact, only until recently I would leave mine on 24/7/365.)

 

[TC91]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: chizow
Heres a recent thread with the symptoms

There's some longer discussions where the recommended workaround was to lock the clocks in ATT or underclock in the case of slightly overclocked memory to eliminate the flickering.

I'm pretty sure that was because of the flickering caused by the driver continuously switching back and forth from 2D to 3D clocks even just sitting at the desktop which was present in the drivers after 8.11 up to 9.2 I think...nothing to do with problems with the ram itself. I was getting the same until I locked the clocks. If the ram is artifacting then yes you probably have to underclock it.

I get that nasty flickering whenever i change the vram clocks, it happens with every program like the ATI CCC, rivatuner, etc.

In response to the OP, you can probably underclock the gpu core alone to like 200-240mhz and see if it helps. I am not sure if you get the flickering too if you change your vram clocks, but if you do, please report back.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: TemjinGold
What happened to stuff like HybridPower anyway? I thought that was a great idea personally...

The power savings is there with higher end NVIDIA cards by downclocking, but the HybridPower that used onboard graphics and shut off the video card when not in use never quite took off. It was limited to certain NVIDIA chipsets for AMD's platform in conjunction with certain video cards AND certain power supplies. If you didn't have all parts of the puzzle, it didn't work right. Also, there was a performance penalty.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: TC91
I get that nasty flickering whenever i change the vram clocks, it happens with every program like the ATI CCC, rivatuner, etc.

Ah okay a different issue then. Are you sure it's not a bad card then? I don't have an issue like that and I change clocks from 2D to 3D regularly.

 

[TC91]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: TC91
I get that nasty flickering whenever i change the vram clocks, it happens with every program like the ATI CCC, rivatuner, etc.

Ah okay a different issue then. Are you sure it's not a bad card then? I don't have an issue like that and I change clocks from 2D to 3D regularly.

It is an early card, probably from the first production run; I got it a couple days after it was available locally. Performance wise it performs ok in newer games that video card reviews are always testing so I don't know if it's a bad card. This is just one other issue on top of many other issues I have had with the card, just a very very very frustrating experience .

It's also a sapphire card, and I have heard bad things about their rma service and how you have to pay or something to get the rma processed. Just a run of bad luck I guess.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: TC91
It is an early card, probably from the first production run; I got it a couple days after it was available locally. Performance wise it performs ok in newer games that video card reviews are always testing so I don't know if it's a bad card. This is just one other issue on top of many other issues I have had with the card, just a very very very frustrating experience .

Well...if you're willing to live with the issues...I would have definitely RMAd it, even if it cost me $15.

 

[SickBeast]

They really need to work on the idle power consumption of high-end GPUs. It's absurd. 99% of the core should be able to power right down while doing basic 2D tasks, and the core and memory should auto-underclock and undervolt to almost nothing. It seems like a simple feature to implement to me.

 

[TC91]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: TC91
It is an early card, probably from the first production run; I got it a couple days after it was available locally. Performance wise it performs ok in newer games that video card reviews are always testing so I don't know if it's a bad card. This is just one other issue on top of many other issues I have had with the card, just a very very very frustrating experience .

Well...if you're willing to live with the issues...I would have definitely RMAd it, even if it cost me $15.

I don't think its broken or defective since it doesn't crash or artifact or anything; I have read about similar issues on various other forums but did not find any solutions really. I also do fear that the RMA will just send me back a card with the same issues (and RMA won't solve my driver/older game woes) so I am not sure what to do.

Sorry to the OP for going off topic; I am just very frustrated .

 

[chrysalis]

sorry for raising this old topic.

I dont know if you guys consider electric cheap or not but here is an example using uk prices.

11p per unit

a unit is 1kwh

so a gfx card using 200watts will use 1 unit every 5 hours about 4.8 units a day, approx 65pence a day.

approx £4.55 a week
approx £19.50 a month
approx £58.50 a quarter (most people pay bills quarterly)

I paid £90 for my 8800 gt.

Now according to the tomshardware link my card supposedbly draws only 51w when idle and 135w under load, but I dont believe it.

The 8800gt has no difference between 2d and 3d clocks, if I adjust the 2d clock in rivatuner the 3d is also affected as they interlinked.
The operating temperature and fan speed barely moves between desktop usage and gaming.

This indicates that the difference between full load and idle on my card is not significant and I expect my idle is well over 100w for the card.

I can tell you my pc uses 7 units a day when turned on, obviously it has other components as well but certianly running a pc 24/7 is expensive in electric and I expect my 8800gt is the biggest draw of all the components.

The reason why it is such a big issue, it is 2009 now and if we go back to just the year 2000 electricty prices have gone up by more than 400% during that period quadrupled.

People in the uk running sli setups on the top end cards will be sending a lot of cash on electric.

 

[cbn]

Originally posted by: chrysalis
sorry for raising this old topic.

I dont know if you guys consider electric cheap or not but here is an example using uk prices.

11p per unit

a unit is 1kwh

so a gfx card using 200watts will use 1 unit every 5 hours about 4.8 units a day, approx 65pence a day.

approx £4.55 a week
approx £19.50 a month
approx £58.50 a quarter (most people pay bills quarterly)

I paid £90 for my 8800 gt.

Now according to the tomshardware link my card supposedbly draws only 51w when idle and 135w under load, but I dont believe it.

The 8800gt has no difference between 2d and 3d clocks, if I adjust the 2d clock in rivatuner the 3d is also affected as they interlinked.
The operating temperature and fan speed barely moves between desktop usage and gaming.

This indicates that the difference between full load and idle on my card is not significant and I expect my idle is well over 100w for the card.

I can tell you my pc uses 7 units a day when turned on, obviously it has other components as well but certianly running a pc 24/7 is expensive in electric and I expect my 8800gt is the biggest draw of all the components.

The reason why it is such a big issue, it is 2009 now and if we go back to just the year 2000 electricty prices have gone up by more than 400% during that period quadrupled.

People in the uk running sli setups on the top end cards will be sending a lot of cash on electric.

Have you seen the power consumption of the new HD58xx video cards?

ATI really improved the "idle" consumption compared to HD48xx.

But I agree with you on power consumption and electricity costs.