Can someone explain the health care bill to me in simple terms?

[TruePaige]

I heard yall was having a party.

 

[amdhunter]

It seems like people here think only minorities will benefit from reform. In actuality it will be the poor Whites who will abuse this system and make the rest of us pay for it.

Huh?

Yeah, the chicken and watermelon posts are retarded. There are FAR MORE POOR WHITES than every other race/illegal COMBINED that will benefit from this healthcare "reform."

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It seems like people here think only minorities will benefit from reform. In actuality it will be the poor Whites who will abuse this system and make the rest of us pay for it.

Then maybe we ought to not have stupid policies and radically reform medicaid.

Never happen.

 

[Mike Gayner]

IBTL.

And my $0.02 - American's healthcare system is fucked and it's beyond comprehension how anyone could support the status quo.

 

[XZeroII]

It seems like people here think only minorities will benefit from reform. In actuality it will be the poor Whites who will abuse this system and make the rest of us pay for it.

Wow. If a white person said that about blacks, I'm sure that they would get a vacation.

 

[zerocool84]

This is the problem with many of the new social pushes (I'm not saying that all social programs are bad): We aren't Europe. Something may work well in Norway and completely fail here. Our people aren't European, our country isn't small, and our role in the world isn't the same as the European countries.

Americans feel entitled. Until that goes away, any system which rewards doing less in any way will ultimately fail.

Umm European countries aren't the only ones with Universal Healthcare.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

IBTL.

And my $0.02 - American's healthcare system is fucked and it's beyond comprehension how anyone could support the status quo.

Do you understand that people can be against the "status quo" AND against legislation no one can understand?

 

[Mike Gayner]

Umm European countries aren't the only ones with Universal Healthcare.

Duh, every American knows this.

 

[Chaotic42]

Umm European countries aren't the only ones with Universal Healthcare.

I never said they were. I'm talking about people comparing the United States to European countries.

 

[jhu]

It's all a joke. A fucking needle doesn't really cost the $15 they bill you and it certainly doesn't cost a doctor $225/hr to administer a medication with the above $15 needle. The reform really needs to come from the ridiculous costs involved with going to a hospital. Sure they are using the 15000% they are making from seeing the every day patient to pay for their new CT scanner, but should would that CT scanner cost as much for any other industry... No.

Do you know why these things cost so much?

1) Average debt of doctor coming out of medical school: $200,000+
2) Liability insurance for high-risk specialties. I'm surprised states like Florida still have neurosurgeons, anastheseologists and Ob/Gyns.
3) Uninsured people using the ER as their primary care facility.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

There wasn't anything racial posted. There weren't any people in the pics. There weren't any words or anything racial in any way. The only racist person here is you.

There is nothing racist in this picture

 

[nageov3t]

Duh, every American knows this.

I do not see any problems or inaccuracies in that map (except for the fact that the lady who does my laundry is polish). and you forgot Africa (it's where our celebrities go baby shopping)

 

[rudeguy]

There is nothing racist in this picture

that tree looks like a penis


Sexist!!!

 

[TruePaige]

There is nothing racist in this picture

Why is broccoli pointing a man towards a burning T?

Is it telling him it is time to leave and stop deforesting our nation? Because no trees are in that picture.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

We're all welcome to our own interpretations of any particular piece of art.

 

[TruePaige]

This is the problem with many of the new social pushes (I'm not saying that all social programs are bad): We aren't Europe. Something may work well in Norway and completely fail here. Our people aren't European, our country isn't small, and our role in the world isn't the same as the European countries.

Americans feel entitled. Until that goes away, any system which rewards doing less in any way will ultimately fail.

It's funny to hear people calling Americans "entitled" when we get far less than most industrial countries.

 

[Mike Gayner]

Awesome that people are quoting these images. I might miss them otherwise. It's always better to have them several times in a row. Not annoying or anything.

 

[jagec]

It's funny to hear people calling Americans "entitled" when we get far less than most industrial countries.

There is attitude, and then there is reality.

 

[rudeguy]

Awesome that people are quoting these images. I might miss them otherwise. It's always better to have them several times in a row. Not annoying or anything.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It's funny to hear people calling Americans "entitled" when we get far less than most industrial countries.[/QUOTE

"Oh, hello picking up your medications?"
"Why yes I am"
"Ok, there they are. That will be $3.50"
"Oh, I don't have the money, just wave the copay" (this for over 1k of drugs, half of which are available as generic, but with medicaid you can get the best)

So she makes us pay the copay and then goes and buys a carton of cigarettes.

That's entitlement.

 

[TruePaige]

It's funny to hear people calling Americans "entitled" when we get far less than most industrial countries.[/QUOTE

"Oh, hello picking up your medications?"
"Why yes I am"
"Ok, there they are. That will be $3.50"
"Oh, I don't have the money, just wave the copay" (this for over 1k of drugs, half of which are available as generic, but with medicaid you can get the best)

So she makes us pay the copay and then goes and buys a carton of cigarettes.

That's entitlement.

And the responsible American gets screwed over in America while in Europe they get the same low rates as anyone else in the country.

Tired of arguing about health care in P&N so I'm surely not going to do so here, just pointing out that claiming we as Americans have a sense of entitlement is bizarre when nations less prosperous than us take much better care of their populace.

Shouldn't a great country provide for it's citizens basic needs and provide great opportunities for growth?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

And the responsible American gets screwed over in America while in Europe they get the same low rates as anyone else in the country.

Tired of arguing about health care in P&N so I'm surely not going to do so here, just pointing out that claiming we as Americans have a sense of entitlement is bizarre when nations less prosperous than us take much better care of their populace.

Shouldn't a great country provide for it's citizens basic needs and provide great opportunities for growth?

Not without corresponding responsibility.
Medicaid is an enormously expensive program. Over 300 billion a year. You don't need to work. You don't need to seriously look for work. You get the best prescription coverage. You don't even need to pay the copay. In NY you would have gotten 200 bucks per kid for school supplies so you can buy your smokes, beer and HDTVs, because that's what was bought, not school supplies.

At the same time everyone else is required to take a generic, Medicaid insists on a brand name drug although there is no medical reason for it.

While that's going on, if it so happens you need something desperately and you fall out of the bizarre regulatory scheme you can FOAD as far as the bureaucrats are concerned.

The best AND worst of both worlds.


So hey, we've had this for almost what, half a century? You would think they would try to fix it.

Nope.

To do so would get every politician tarred and feathered as racist, and besides the politicians who support lavish benefits have a guaranteed voter base.

So here in western NY we have THE highest property tax rate, high income taxes, fees and so forth so we have THE largest tax burden of all 50 states. We keep trading places with CA. We're once again in the lead.

Medicaid grows and grows. It will NOT be reformed. There will be NO accountability. There will be NO bureaucratic reform. To support this bloated voter base they have started taking our school taxes to pay for it. More filching is on the way.

It is these same people who will give us health care. Un friggin believable.

Now in light of the above facts, why am I supposed to trust these folks?

 

[SludgeFactory]

I understand that the goal is to do more than just provide health care to people that don't currently have it. Or am I wrong on that? We wouldn't be spending over $1 trillion just for the 15 million people that don't have insurance....right?

$1T would buy some pretty nice private insurance for 15M people over 10 years, wouldn't it? But then, that doesn't really solve the problem -- stuff just costs too damn much across the board.

You're right, there must be more than that. It must be that the government (Republicans and Democrats alike) will buck tradition and actually administer this fairly and efficiently and without massive waste, won't miss their projected cost by 1.5X or 2X, won't pass a bill that is rife with special-interest/lobbyist fraud, won't insert a nice fat 8% payroll tax on your ass to cover it, won't further slash reimbursement rates for healthcare providers when they realize what a gigantic mess they've made and thereby bankrupt at least some local private hospitals and/or piss off and drive away good professionals by torpedoing their salaries (the people who actually are on the front lines providing treatement and care), won't continue to allow the hogs feeding at the trough and raping and pillaging *your* healthcare dollars (lawyers, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, equipment/service providers with obscene rates, etc.)...

Oh shit...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Everyone understands that it is a fundamental impossibility keep insurance costs from going through the roof, right?

 

[TruePaige]

Not without corresponding responsibility.
Medicaid is an enormously expensive program. Over 300 billion a year. You don't need to work. You don't need to seriously look for work. You get the best prescription coverage. You don't even need to pay the copay. In NY you would have gotten 200 bucks per kid for school supplies so you can buy your smokes, beer and HDTVs, because that's what was bought, not school supplies.

At the same time everyone else is required to take a generic, Medicaid insists on a brand name drug although there is no medical reason for it.

While that's going on, if it so happens you need something desperately and you fall out of the bizarre regulatory scheme you can FOAD as far as the bureaucrats are concerned.

The best AND worst of both worlds.


So hey, we've had this for almost what, half a century? You would think they would try to fix it.

Nope.

To do so would get every politician tarred and feathered as racist, and besides the politicians who support lavish benefits have a guaranteed voter base.

So here in western NY we have THE highest property tax rate, high income taxes, fees and so forth so we have THE largest tax burden of all 50 states. We keep trading places with CA. We're once again in the lead.

Medicaid grows and grows. It will NOT be reformed. There will be NO accountability. There will be NO bureaucratic reform. To support this bloated voter base they have started taking our school taxes to pay for it. More filching is on the way.

It is these same people who will give us health care. Un friggin believable.

Now in light of the above facts, why am I supposed to trust these folks?

We've talked about this a bunch before, and you know my feelings on cost and the current state of our system. Of course I want UHC because of it's cost control measures and the fact that it would cover everyone.

What we have on the table is far from perfect, but the lack of anyone to really move to make something better is going to make it the best compromise we get for a while, unfortunately. Oh well, maybe it'll open a door and in 10-15 years or so we can get a real health care system proposed for this country.