Can someone explain the gaza situation to me?

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Whoever said that Hamas has moderate and radical elements is being proved correct.
Hamas now extend an amnesty offer to Fatah as their first day of rule in Gaza begins.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...Bipx6jz.jZ_T4n3pis0NUE

Now will there be a split within the Palestinians (Gaza vs West Bank) w/ separate governments or can Hamas expand to the West Bank.

Will the moderates in Hamas reign in the militants an attempt to try to work with Israel or just continue on with the status quo?

Can Hamas act as a government and take responsibilty for their civilian population and the populations actions?

By the end of summer, the waters will have cleared up.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Heard it again this morning on an analysis of where each side gets its arms. Fatah is supplied by equipped by Egypt and Jordan with support from Israel and the US and also receive direct training from the US. Fatah has sold out the Palestinian people.

heaven forbid they ever live in peace with their neighbors. much better to raise one's children to strap dynomite around their bodies and kill the children of other people?

obviously in the moonbat world it is

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Heard it again this morning on an analysis of where each side gets its arms. Fatah is supplied by equipped by Egypt and Jordan with support from Israel and the US and also receive direct training from the US. Fatah has sold out the Palestinian people.

Yup, and in the White House we have Elliot Abrams (of Iran/Contras infamy), just one of many zionist neocons who asceneded to power with the current administration, pulling the strings on this operation.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Heard it again this morning on an analysis of where each side gets its arms. Fatah is supplied by equipped by Egypt and Jordan with support from Israel and the US and also receive direct training from the US. Fatah has sold out the Palestinian people.

Yup, and in the White House we have Elliot Abrams (of Iran/Contras infamy), just one of many zionist neocons who asceneded to power with the current administration, pulling the strings on this operation.

I guess since I support a homeland for Israel in the middle east that makes me a zionist as well?


do you ding a lings even know the meanings of the words you use? Most of ya'll obviously don't. Hell I bet the majority don't even know the basis for "neocon" and realize how many people could classify themselves as one.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Fatah was (and is) extremely corrupt (family and friends of those in power received all good jobs and most cash), which caused people to lose faith in them. That's part of the reason why Hamas won the elections. While Hamas got by far the most votes Fatah refused to give up power, which caused a power struggle. Before the elections a lot of countries were saying democratic elections had to be held, and when Hamas won those countries suddenly withdrew support. That caused an even harder split between Hamas and Fatah, as people had the feeling the world did not care for what they wanted, that other countries just wanted a corrupt puppet government for the Palestinians.

Fatah's supporters (the families and friends who had power before the elections) want back the power, and Hamas wants to form a government without Fatah.

:thumbsup:

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: GrGr

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Heard it again this morning on an analysis of where each side gets its arms. Fatah is supplied by equipped by Egypt and Jordan with support from Israel and the US and also receive direct training from the US. Fatah has sold out the Palestinian people.

Yup, and in the White House we have Elliot Abrams (of Iran/Contras infamy), just one of many zionist neocons who asceneded to power with the current administration, pulling the strings on this operation.

I guess since I support a homeland for Israel in the middle east that makes me a zionist as well?


do you ding a lings even know the meanings of the words you use? Most of ya'll obviously don't. Hell I bet the majority don't even know the basis for "neocon" and realize how many people could classify themselves as one.

neocons are ultraconservatives from the democratic party. They are mainly composed of Jews. Zionists are mainly Jews who support a Jewish state in the Middle East. IMHO, the latter doesn't equate to democracy since it's supposed to be a state primarily for Jews. It's no different from the nation of islam wanting a homeland for blacks in america or even africans in africa. If you want a nation for a certain type of people, then you are advocating a bias agenda.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Narmer
neocons are ultraconservatives from the democratic party. They are mainly composed of Jews. Zionists are mainly Jews who support a Jewish state in the Middle East. IMHO, the latter doesn't equate to democracy since it's supposed to be a state primarily for Jews. It's no different from the nation of islam wanting a homeland for blacks in america or even africans in africa. If you want a nation for a certain type of people, then you are advocating a bias agenda.

except for that horrible fact the moonbats ignore, now Jews are allowed to live in Israel, hold citizenship, vote, and even hold office.

Go figure.


I guess Hamas appeals to the non-zionist non-neocons and Israel appeals to the neo-con zionists?


Well thats easy for me to decide which side I would want to be on!

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer
neocons are ultraconservatives from the democratic party. They are mainly composed of Jews. Zionists are mainly Jews who support a Jewish state in the Middle East. IMHO, the latter doesn't equate to democracy since it's supposed to be a state primarily for Jews. It's no different from the nation of islam wanting a homeland for blacks in america or even africans in africa. If you want a nation for a certain type of people, then you are advocating a bias agenda.

except for that horrible fact the moonbats ignore, now Jews are allowed to live in Israel, hold citizenship, vote, and even hold office.

Go figure.


I guess Hamas appeals to the non-zionist non-neocons and Israel appeals to the neo-con zionists?


Well thats easy for me to decide which side I would want to be on!

Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

 

[kermalou]

Originally posted by: Narmer
[
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

Would it be OK if Christians go into Saudi Arabia/Egypt/Jordan, change the consitution to reflect a more secular society? Let me backtrack a little, would it be OK for Christians to enter any of those states?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: kermalou

Originally posted by: Narmer
[
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

Would it be OK if Christians go into Saudi Arabia/Egypt/Jordan, change the consitution to reflect a more secular society? Let me backtrack a little, would it be OK for Christians to enter any of those states?

So it's ok to compare Israel to her neighbors rather than a western democratic state? Understood. For a while there, I thought Israel was claimig to be one of the latter.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Narmer
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

It could happen in Israel, the same could not happen anywhere else in the region.

It is far better to be a Arab in Israel than in most Arab countries.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

It could happen in Israel, the same could not happen anywhere else in the region.

It is far better to be a Arab in Israel than in most Arab countries.

How do you know that? Except for gay and lesbian arabs, I don't see many trying to emigrate to Israel. However, if you show me the pros and cons of living in Israel vs. living in your own country, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

It could happen in Israel, the same could not happen anywhere else in the region.

It is far better to be a Arab in Israel than in most Arab countries.

How do you know that? Except for gay and lesbian arabs, I don't see many trying to emigrate to Israel. However, if you show me the pros and cons of living in Israel vs. living in your own country, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

lets see, in Israel, Arab MEN and Arab WOMEN can vote, thats a big one for starters.


Why should I convince you? We are not comparing Israel to MY country, we are comparing Israel to its neighbors.

Why would most Arabs try to immigrate to Israel? Most aren't even allowed to travel abroard. Most women in those countries would not be allowed to travel, and most men in Arab countries are taught to hate Jews. see the problem?

Some times what some of you ask is so stupid it is just laughable, you managed to meet that threshold

 

[Bumrush99]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

It could happen in Israel, the same could not happen anywhere else in the region.

It is far better to be a Arab in Israel than in most Arab countries.

How do you know that? Except for gay and lesbian arabs, I don't see many trying to emigrate to Israel. However, if you show me the pros and cons of living in Israel vs. living in your own country, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

lets see, in Israel, Arab MEN and Arab WOMEN can vote, thats a big one for starters.


Why should I convince you? We are not comparing Israel to MY country, we are comparing Israel to its neighbors.

Why would most Arabs try to immigrate to Israel? Most aren't even allowed to travel abroard. Most women in those countries would not be allowed to travel, and most men in Arab countries are taught to hate Jews. see the problem?

Some times what some of you ask is so stupid it is just laughable, you managed to meet that threshold

Don't argue with Narmer, he is a very biased individual that thinks he can make intellectual arguments that will mask his views, which will not change regardless of how stupid he makes himself look.
He holds Western powers to the highest levels of judgment, yet ignores and simply does not seem to care about how the oppressed people of the world are involved in terrorist acts against civilians and their own women and children. I'm sure once Hamas takes control and invokes Muslim law over everyone he will find excuses to justify those actions as well.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

It could happen in Israel, the same could not happen anywhere else in the region.

It is far better to be a Arab in Israel than in most Arab countries.

How do you know that? Except for gay and lesbian arabs, I don't see many trying to emigrate to Israel. However, if you show me the pros and cons of living in Israel vs. living in your own country, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

lets see, in Israel, Arab MEN and Arab WOMEN can vote, thats a big one for starters.


Why should I convince you? We are not comparing Israel to MY country, we are comparing Israel to its neighbors.

Why would most Arabs try to immigrate to Israel? Most aren't even allowed to travel abroard. Most women in those countries would not be allowed to travel, and most men in Arab countries are taught to hate Jews. see the problem?

Some times what some of you ask is so stupid it is just laughable, you managed to meet that threshold

There are many countries in the Middle East where people can vote. There are many countries in the Middle East where women can vote as well. The problem with ALL those countries, including your beloved Israel, is that there are always exceptions that you won't find in a true western democracy. For example, in Turkey you get sent to prison for insulting the army. In Israel, Jews are given preference in almost everything. In most of the arab world, the votes pay lip-service to the real leaders. It's all a sham in that region. Therefore, I doubt that an Arab woman going from her native land to your Israel will feel any different considering all the rights certain groups have over others that is ENSHRINED in their laws.

EDIT: Your dumb assumptions and asinine statements make you candidate for Joker in this forums. Unfortunately, you have many contenders.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

It could happen in Israel, the same could not happen anywhere else in the region.

It is far better to be a Arab in Israel than in most Arab countries.

How do you know that? Except for gay and lesbian arabs, I don't see many trying to emigrate to Israel. However, if you show me the pros and cons of living in Israel vs. living in your own country, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

lets see, in Israel, Arab MEN and Arab WOMEN can vote, thats a big one for starters.


Why should I convince you? We are not comparing Israel to MY country, we are comparing Israel to its neighbors.

Why would most Arabs try to immigrate to Israel? Most aren't even allowed to travel abroard. Most women in those countries would not be allowed to travel, and most men in Arab countries are taught to hate Jews. see the problem?

Some times what some of you ask is so stupid it is just laughable, you managed to meet that threshold

Don't argue with Narmer, he is a very biased individual that thinks he can make intellectual arguments that will mask his views, which will not change regardless of how stupid he makes himself look.
He holds Western powers to the highest levels of judgment, yet ignores and simply does not seem to care about how the oppressed people of the world are involved in terrorist acts against civilians and their own women and children. I'm sure once Hamas takes control and invokes Muslim law over everyone he will find excuses to justify those actions as well.

I hold those who claim moral superiority over others to their standings amongst the family of nations. If you don't want to be judged by your own claims, don't make them. If the US claims to be a beacon of freedom, I will ALWAYS hold her to those standards.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

It could happen in Israel, the same could not happen anywhere else in the region.

It is far better to be a Arab in Israel than in most Arab countries.

How do you know that? Except for gay and lesbian arabs, I don't see many trying to emigrate to Israel. However, if you show me the pros and cons of living in Israel vs. living in your own country, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

lets see, in Israel, Arab MEN and Arab WOMEN can vote, thats a big one for starters.


Why should I convince you? We are not comparing Israel to MY country, we are comparing Israel to its neighbors.

Why would most Arabs try to immigrate to Israel? Most aren't even allowed to travel abroard. Most women in those countries would not be allowed to travel, and most men in Arab countries are taught to hate Jews. see the problem?

Some times what some of you ask is so stupid it is just laughable, you managed to meet that threshold

Which countires would those be? The only places I know where women cannot vote are, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and United Arab Emirates?as well as in Brunei. And I would love to see some figures about the 'not allowed to travel' point.

http://www.pbs.org/stantonanth...e/suffrage_rights.html

 

[Aimster]

Updated Information:

Kuwaiti women win right to vote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4552749.stm

Bahrain's women vote for first time
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...2002/10/25/wirq325.xml

Two women re-elected in Oman vote
http://www.onlinewomeninpoliti...s/03_1006_oman_wip.htm

Qatar: Women can vote (47% of them participated in the elections in 1998)
http://www.qatarembassy.net/women.asp

UAE - women occupy 40% of public sector posts
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansu...030605/2003060503.html


I didn't even verify the Saudi Arabia claim. They suck.

 

[azazyel]

Yeah, my info was from 95 so it's really old. Which makes his claim that much more silly.

 

[Aimster]

His/Her claims are always silly.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: Aimster
His/Her claims are always silly.

Let's all point and laugh at him/her


HA HA!


/I can't remember ever being this bored at work
//Screw it, I'm going home.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

It could happen in Israel, the same could not happen anywhere else in the region.

It is far better to be a Arab in Israel than in most Arab countries.

How do you know that? Except for gay and lesbian arabs, I don't see many trying to emigrate to Israel. However, if you show me the pros and cons of living in Israel vs. living in your own country, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

lets see, in Israel, Arab MEN and Arab WOMEN can vote, thats a big one for starters.


Why should I convince you? We are not comparing Israel to MY country, we are comparing Israel to its neighbors.

Why would most Arabs try to immigrate to Israel? Most aren't even allowed to travel abroard. Most women in those countries would not be allowed to travel, and most men in Arab countries are taught to hate Jews. see the problem?

Some times what some of you ask is so stupid it is just laughable, you managed to meet that threshold

yes israel is amazing for womens rights
http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages...o=801449&contrassID=19
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6584661.stm

and this is an orthadox culture thing

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer
Simple question: would it be ok if non-jews became a larger percentage of the israeli population and wanted to change the constitution to reflect either a more secular society or a more plural society without any references to "Jewish state"?

It could happen in Israel, the same could not happen anywhere else in the region.

It is far better to be a Arab in Israel than in most Arab countries.

How do you know that? Except for gay and lesbian arabs, I don't see many trying to emigrate to Israel. However, if you show me the pros and cons of living in Israel vs. living in your own country, I'd be more inclined to believe you.

lets see, in Israel, Arab MEN and Arab WOMEN can vote, thats a big one for starters.


Why should I convince you? We are not comparing Israel to MY country, we are comparing Israel to its neighbors.

Why would most Arabs try to immigrate to Israel? Most aren't even allowed to travel abroard. Most women in those countries would not be allowed to travel, and most men in Arab countries are taught to hate Jews. see the problem?

Some times what some of you ask is so stupid it is just laughable, you managed to meet that threshold

yes israel is amazing for womens rights
http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages...o=801449&contrassID=19
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6584661.stm

and this is an orthadox culture thing

B.S. What do you know about the Orthodox Jewish culture?
I'm an Orthodox Jew. These people are just hoodlums who call themselves Orthodox.
And your comparison of this story to what the other poster was calling state-sponsored oppression of women is pretty much mind-blowing.

 

[Aimster]

Israel is part of the M.E.

I think people somehow like to exclude Israel from part of that culture.

Well.. I have news for you.... you cannot.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel is part of the M.E.

I think people somehow like to exclude Israel from part of that culture.

Well.. I have news for you.... you cannot.

What are you trying to say?
Sure, there are some similiarities, but there are major, major differences as well.