Can someone explain the gaza situation to me?

[aceofskies05]

I know the Hamas took over or something like that. What is Hamas? Is it good that they are taking over?

 

[Aimster]

Hamas is a group that doesn't want to make peace with Israel. It wants to kill all of Israel and their citizens.

Fatah is an extremists group that is willing to make peace with Israel. It realizes to do that, it must stop attacks. It has tried.

Hamas doesn't care and continues to attack Israel regardless if there is a peace movement or not.

Right now they are fighting for power. Hamas wants an Islamic State that will move into Israel and dominate it.
Fatah was working on peace with Abbas.

 

[aceofskies05]

so fatah is fighting against hamas?

 

[Aimster]

Correct.

Hamas tookover Gaza. Fatah retreated.

Hamas was low on cash. Nobody was giving them money. Banks were too scared to route the money to them because if the U.S found out they would be sanctioned.

The leader of Hamas probably got bored because he didn't have extra money laying around to buy "how to kill Jew" books so he ordered his troops to the field.

 

[BarneyFife]

Arabs don't get along with one another.

 

[IronWing]

Aimster has it pretty much right. I would add that for a variety of reasons Hamas is in the ascendancy and Fatah is probably reaching a deadend as a political power. Fatah was the party of Arafat who has been dead for awhile. With his cult of personality gone and an inability to deliver peace or economic development Fatah is dwindling. Hamas has built a strong social network in the territories and is growing as a movement. IMHO, if Israel and the Palestinians reach any kind of peace in the next decade it will be negotiated between Israel and Hamas, not Fatah.

 

[Lemon law]

Another way to put it is that Fatah used to be what Hamas is now. Then Arafat recognized the State of Israel and thought he would get his dream of a Palestinian State in return. But negotiations on the Oslo accords broke down over the right to return. And the one bone Arafat was tossed was the right to administer various monies to administer the Palestinian refugee camps. And in the process both Arafat and his political party grew corrupt on these monies and offered the Palestinian people nothing. And the far more militant Hamas has eaten the Fatah lunch and wants to replace Fatah.---Hamas has already done that at the ballot box---and now seeks to get rid of the lone Fatah holder over which is Abbas as PM. While Hamas has some funding, its being bled dry trying to administer some semblance of social services while Israel with holds payment of revenues collected for that express purpose.

Israel wants the fiction of dealing with the already corrupted Fatah. And Hamas is giving Israel the reality of no more Fatah period and is doing it in a rather brutal and Israeli like manner. And in the Gaza area, that is now a fait accompli. The west bank will likely be next. And in terms of mid-east alliances---Fatah has allied with AL-Quida and Hamas with Iran. Which means the USA's buddy Israel is getting in bed with AL-Quida. In the mid-east, the saying of politics makes for strange bed fellows takes on a whole new machavellian aura. The other saying is that you need to buy a program to tell the players apart. Some people look for the white hatted good guys vs. the black hatted bad guys. But for the unbiased--they all wear black hats.

 

[Blackjack200]

I would say that you could describe the situation in Gaza in far more basic terms. When you oppress people economically and politically almost to the point of extinction, you can expect there to be some violent resistance. I'm not defending rocket attacks; they are a violation of every code of war imaginable. The reason that Hamas has the support of the Palestinians is because Fatah has completely failed to improve the Palestinian situation.

Keep in mind that Gaza is basically a ghetto; it's incredibly poor and Israel has completely isolated it. It's not surprising that in a situation like that there's going to be infighting.

 

[Moonbeam]

I heard on the radio that the struggle is all political and started by the US. We wanted democracy there and when the vote was cast a radical Muslim group was elected and we went to work arming a Fatah faction to overthrow them but instead Hamas killed them instead. Apparently the only place where radical nut cases are allowed to hold power is in the US.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I heard on the radio that the struggle is all political and started by the US. We wanted democracy there and when the vote was cast a radical Muslim group was elected and we went to work arming a Fatah faction to overthrow them but instead Hamas killed them instead. Apparently the only place where radical nut cases are allowed to hold power is in the US.

Except our radical nut cases don?t go around killing people from the other side when they don?t agree on something.

The Democrats didn?t celebrate their victory last fall by throwing Republicans off the roof of the capital building. :roll:

 

[tomywishbone]

The guys in Gaza, took the other guy's football. Those other guys are really mad.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Fatah was (and is) extremely corrupt (family and friends of those in power received all good jobs and most cash), which caused people to lose faith in them. That's part of the reason why Hamas won the elections. While Hamas got by far the most votes Fatah refused to give up power, which caused a power struggle. Before the elections a lot of countries were saying democratic elections had to be held, and when Hamas won those countries suddenly withdrew support. That caused an even harder split between Hamas and Fatah, as people had the feeling the world did not care for what they wanted, that other countries just wanted a corrupt puppet government for the Palestinians.

Fatah's supporters (the families and friends who had power before the elections) want back the power, and Hamas wants to form a government without Fatah.

 

[kermalou]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Fatah was (and is) extremely corrupt (family and friends of those in power received all good jobs and most cash), which caused people to lose faith in them. That's part of the reason why Hamas won the elections. While Hamas got by far the most votes Fatah refused to give up power, which caused a power struggle. Before the elections a lot of countries were saying democratic elections had to be held, and when Hamas won those countries suddenly withdrew support. That caused an even harder split between Hamas and Fatah, as people had the feeling the world did not care for what they wanted, that other countries just wanted a corrupt puppet government for the Palestinians.

Fatah's supporters (the families and friends who had power before the elections) want back the power, and Hamas wants to form a government without Fatah.

The people have spoken and they want a fight, they dont want peace.

The elections that were won by Hamas, were correct in the sense that the people were sick of the corrupt Fatah party. Yasser Arafat's widow is a multi-milllionaire who never lived in Palestine, but in a chalet in France.

 

[Czar]

... I never would have thought that on this forum and on this subject you could get such good answers

 

[ericlp]

It's kinda hard to make sense of it all. Bad enough just trying to keep up with what's going on in Iraq. I dunno. Why would you want to know? Why do we care about what goes on around in the world? Should we care? Should we do anything about it? The only time we care is when F16's are bombing the crap out of something and CNN is covering it...

I don't know, when we do we stop caring about what happens in some part of the world and focus on what is happening in our own back yard? How does one keep up with Everything and know who is fighting who? Or know the motives or what freedom fighter is blowing up this or that? It's impossible to know everything... Or is it?

Information OVERLOAD...

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Hamas is a group whose creation was helped by Israel and destined to fight Arafat's PLO.

Fatah is a secular and corrupt organization once headed by Yasser Arafat that is willing to sacrifice its dignity and pride and align itself with Israel and the US. Making peace with Israel is a noble but selfish ruze to maintain power.

Hamas has moderate and extreme elements. But it attacks Israel if it feels appropriate. Hamas is more disciplined and better organized.

Right now they are fighting for power. Hamas won the election last year but has been hampered by American policy that refuses to speak (sound familiar) to Hamas because the extremist element refuses to make peace with Israel. Fatah decided to align with Israel and the US to maintain power and continue their corrupt ways.

Fatah was working on peace with Abbas but Israel never had any interest in peace and kept hampering him. It's a very complicated situation

Fixed for you.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Aimster
Hamas is a group whose creation was helped by Israel and destined to fight Arafat's PLO.

Fatah is a secular and corrupt organization once headed by Yasser Arafat that is willing to sacrifice its dignity and pride and align itself with Israel and the US. Making peace with Israel is a noble but selfish ruze to maintain power.

Hamas has moderate and extreme elements. But it attacks Israel if it feels appropriate. Hamas is more disciplined and better organized.

Right now they are fighting for power. Hamas won the election last year but has been hampered by American policy that refuses to speak (sound familiar) to Hamas because the extremist element refuses to make peace with Israel. Fatah decided to align with Israel and the US to maintain power and continue their corrupt ways.

Fatah was working on peace with Abbas but Hamas never had any interest in peace and kept hampering him. It's a very complicated situation

Fixed for you.

You forgot the bolded word.

Israel was not interested in promises that Fatah could not keep due to Hamas

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: Aimster
Hamas is a group whose creation was helped by Israel and destined to fight Arafat's PLO.

Fatah is a secular and corrupt organization once headed by Yasser Arafat that is willing to sacrifice its dignity and pride and align itself with Israel and the US. Making peace with Israel is a noble but selfish ruze to maintain power.

Hamas has moderate and extreme elements. But it attacks Israel if it feels appropriate. Hamas is more disciplined and better organized.

Right now they are fighting for power. Hamas won the election last year but has been hampered by American policy that refuses to speak (sound familiar) to Hamas because the extremist element refuses to make peace with Israel. Fatah decided to align with Israel and the US to maintain power and continue their corrupt ways.

Fatah was working on peace with Abbas but Hamas never had any interest in peace and kept hampering him. It's a very complicated situation

Fixed for you.

You forgot the bolded word.

Israel was not interested in promises that Fatah could not keep due to Hamas

Wrong. Before Hamas even came to power Israel did all it could to make life miserable for Abbas. After replacing Arafat, Israel went out of its way to put unnecessary pressure on him. The Palestinian people responded by voting in Hamas. In essence Israel's plan backfired (if that wasn't their original intention because now they are saying that peace with the Pals is impossible). Nobody who watches this conflict should be at all surprised at what is going on. Israel weaked the PA beyond belief and they got a more extreme element as a replacement. Peace with the Pals is not in Israel's short-term interest.

EDIT: From Palestine to Lebanon to Iraq to Afghanistan, Bush's dumb "New way forward" is on fire. All these places, save Afghanistan, are rife with American double standards.

 

[GrGr]

Hamas is the group that won the democratic election. Fatah, Arafat's old group, lost the election. Israel and the US did not like this so they imposed economic sanctions on Palestine. Israel started abducting Hamas ministers and throw them in jail while supporting the lame duck Fatah President Abbas as a quisling they could grease. Fatah sold out to Israel. The US started to give money and arms to Fatah because they best serve Israel's interests thus starting a civil war. Hamas, the winners of the election never were allowed to rule. The US/Israel have put Gaza under an economic and military siege while pulling strings to bring political chaos to the Palestinians. Classic divide and conquer tactics by the US/Israel.

 

[Lemon law]

To Narmer,

Who edits in the following last statement--EDIT: From Palestine to Lebanon to Iraq to Afghanistan, Bush's dumb "New way forward" is on fire. All these places, save Afghanistan, are rife with American double standards.

You have a good post there--my only question is why you make an exception for Afghanistan
which is similarly screwed up from the start. What do they have there?--American triple standards?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
To Narmer,

Who edits in the following last statement--EDIT: From Palestine to Lebanon to Iraq to Afghanistan, Bush's dumb "New way forward" is on fire. All these places, save Afghanistan, are rife with American double standards.

You have a good post there--my only question is why you make an exception for Afghanistan
which is similarly screwed up from the start. What do they have there?--American triple standards?

You know what, you're right. For the past week or so there has been news that Iran has been arming the Taliban. However, I read in the Wall Street Journal (on a similar story) that also highlights the fact that Pakistan has been arming the Taliban as well, but we chose to keep that part quiet because they are our allies. In fact, we have more intel on Pakistan allegiance with the Taliban than we do with the Iranians (if it even exists).

 

[Lemon law]

Whoever said that Hamas has moderate and radical elements is being proved correct.
Hamas now extend an amnesty offer to Fatah as their first day of rule in Gaza begins.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...Bipx6jz.jZ_T4n3pis0NUE

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: aceofskies05
I know the Hamas took over or something like that. What is Hamas? Is it good that they are taking over?

See, the Yooks really don't like the Zooks, so they are escalating their violence till one side gets its way. Once that is done they will go looking for someone else to fight as they don't know how to be a peace with anyone as they cannot be at peace with themselves.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: aceofskies05
I know the Hamas took over or something like that. What is Hamas? Is it good that they are taking over?

See, the Yooks really don't like the Zooks, so they are escalating their violence till one side gets its way. Once that is done they will go looking for someone else to fight as they don't know how to be a peace with anyone as they cannot be at peace with themselves.

Go away. Your post is full of lies.

 

[Moonbeam]

Heard it again this morning on an analysis of where each side gets its arms. Fatah is supplied by equipped by Egypt and Jordan with support from Israel and the US and also receive direct training from the US. Fatah has sold out the Palestinian people.