Can Someone Explain Evolution to Me?

[Red Squirrel]

You can observe, test and confirm evidence until doomsday, but right now evolution is a theory. Throwing in more words doesn't change what is.

Yeah I don't know why people think it's a fact. Yes there are two types of "theories" in science, but evolution is a theory in the same sense that a criminal case can be a theory because nobody knows for sure what happened but the evidence leads to believe what happened. It's a theory that a certain person is the one who did the crime. It's not a theory in the same sense as the theory of gravity. The fact that gravity exists can be observed.

Even among creationists there are various theories as to how things came to be. Neither one can be proven. You can only look at evidence and then formulate theories based on said evidence.

 

[zinfamous]

Yeah I don't know why people think it's a fact. Yes there are two types of "theories" in science, but evolution is a theory in the same sense that a criminal case can be a theory because nobody knows for sure what happened but the evidence leads to believe what happened. It's a theory that a certain person is the one who did the crime. It's not a theory in the same sense as the theory of gravity. The fact that gravity exists can be observed.

Even among creationists there are various theories as to how things came to be. Neither one can be proven. You can only look at evidence and then formulate theories based on said evidence.

Evolution is plainly observable and has essentially been proven, to the standards that science allows, in many ways.

I'm not sure why people fight these things. It doesn't do them any good to deny plain reality.

 

[sandorski]

Yeah I don't know why people think it's a fact. Yes there are two types of "theories" in science, but evolution is a theory in the same sense that a criminal case can be a theory because nobody knows for sure what happened but the evidence leads to believe what happened. It's a theory that a certain person is the one who did the crime. It's not a theory in the same sense as the theory of gravity. The fact that gravity exists can be observed.

Even among creationists there are various theories as to how things came to be. Neither one can be proven. You can only look at evidence and then formulate theories based on said evidence.

There is only one type of "theory" in Science. The 2 types of the word "Theory" consists of Scientific and colloquial(common usage). What is colloquially called "Theory" is what Science calls a Hypothesis, which is just a Suggestion. The Theory of Evolution is not just a Suggestion, it is an Explanation of the Data that has the ability to provide accurate predictions of what can be expected within Biology. This video explains it better.

 

[sdifox]

How did these guys finish school is beyond me.

 

[sandorski]

How did these guys finish school is beyond me.

When I finished School I was saying the same types of things as they are. Mainly because the School I finished High School in was a Religious School that considered Evolution to be a lie from Satan himself.

 

[BudAshes]

Yeah I don't know why people think it's a fact. Yes there are two types of "theories" in science, but evolution is a theory in the same sense that a criminal case can be a theory because nobody knows for sure what happened but the evidence leads to believe what happened. It's a theory that a certain person is the one who did the crime. It's not a theory in the same sense as the theory of gravity. The fact that gravity exists can be observed.

Even among creationists there are various theories as to how things came to be. Neither one can be proven. You can only look at evidence and then formulate theories based on said evidence.

A creationist theory isn't a real thing. They have no scientific theories because they have no interest in the scientific method. Without the scientific method we would still be living in the creationists world, which has a lot of huts and hovels and not much else.

 

[Maxima1]

I was not expecting this level of doubt on a tech forum....

Evolution (Edit: As an explanation for Creation) is a huge farce.

Study higher-level (meta-) programming, and pattern-design languages.

If Evolution were true, it would basically be like, hey, I've never seen a Windows-based PC before, so my theory on how "Word" and "Excel" "Evolved", was because this executable file called "Notepad.exe" with a filesystem date five years prior, must have undergone cloning and HDD bit-rot, to "evolve" to become Word and Excel.

To us technologists, the whole idea is absolutely ludicrous. Yet to an "Evolutionary Biologist", this is somehow... dogma???

LOL!!!!

More Biologists should study computer-science. The idea that we live in a computationally-oriented universe should not be discarded. I believe that, fundimentally, Biology IS a branch of Computer Science.
As an explanation for Creation? Where did Mt. Dew come from? Where did anti-biotics come from? Where did the bacteria that obtained the resistance come from? Surely, they must have all "just popped into being... due to evolution". POP goes the Weasel. I guess it all makes sense now.
I compare this to encryption, and programming by "random opcodes". eg., the "Infinite Monkeys" theorem of programming.


We *engineer* encryption, such that, given the current state-of-the-art of computational ability, it would EXCEED THE HEAT-DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE, TO BE ABLE TO BRUTE-FORCE IT.

Yet, Evolutionary Biologists, seem to think that we were "Created" via some sort of Infinite Monkeys-type theorem of biology, yet, given the small window-of-opportunity of this life-giving rock, I think it seems infeasible, if that were the "only" mechanism at work.

Reading again, I thought you were only referring to abiogenesis but then it seems like you want to make a distinction that creationists do with “macroevolution” also. There are plenty examples of "macroevolution" e.g. horses

Evolution has so much evidence for it that there is ZERO doubt it occurred. Abiogenesis (the “creation” part) also has incredible evidence for it indirectly via the geological column even if no one knows the chemical pathway, and if a multiverse exist, then even essentially impossible probabilities are a possibility.

What's funny about it is that you can predict consistently what fossils will be found in any part of the world. But I’ve noticed with the religiously inclined it doesn’t matter if you rout them with laws and principles. No, they'll deny it and cling on to their absurd fairy tales.

Stratigraphy and the Principles of Relative Dating | WFS

" The Principle of Faunal Succession: This principle is attributed to William Smith, an English engineer in the late 1700s. Smith noticed that the kinds of fossils he found changed through a vertical succession of rock layers, and furthermore, that the same vertical changes in fossils occurred in different places. Using the fossils collected from rocks in one part of England, Smith could predict the succession of rocks and fossils in other parts of England. The observation that fossils change in a consistent manner through stratigraphic successions can be extended to the entire world. Smiths discovery formed a key line of evidence for evolution (it predates the birth of Charles Darwin in 1809), but it is an observed property of the rock record and is independent of natural selection, Darwins proposed mechanism of evolution. "

Even without contemplating abiogenesis, the chemistry/physics already does miraculous stuff without a mind behind it. Funnily enough, a creator is also a redundancy (and more complex to explain) to the universe coming into existence and requires so many absurd ad-hoc additions.

Errors in DNA Replication

Although DNA usually replicates with fairly high fidelity, mistakes do happen. The majority of these mistakes are corrected through DNA repair processes. Repair enzymes recognize structural imperfections between improperly paired nucleotides, cutting out the wrong ones and putting the right ones...

www.nature.com

“DNA replication is a truly amazing biological phenomenon. Consider the countless number of times that your cells divide to make you who you are—not just during development, but even now, as a fully mature adult. Then consider that every time a human cell divides and its DNA replicates, it has to copy and transmit the exact same sequence of 3 billion nucleotides to its daughter cells. Finally, consider the fact that in life (literally), nothing is perfect. While most DNA replicates with fairly high fidelity, mistakes do happen, with polymerase enzymes sometimes inserting the wrong nucleotide or too many or too few nucleotides into a sequence. Fortunately, most of these mistakes are fixed through various DNA repair processes. Repair enzymes recognize structural imperfections between improperly paired nucleotides, cutting out the wrong ones and putting the right ones in their place. But some replication errors make it past these mechanisms, thus becoming permanent mutations.”

Let's look at this another way. In terms of Cosmic time-scales, the amount of time that this flying rock we're all on, has been Habitable towards carbon-based life forms, is infintesimally-small, in Cosmic time-scales. Yet, we have this diverse life.

Did you know male ducks have a corkscrew haahaa and female ducks have corkscrew hoohoos? The interesting bit is that they don't fit together. One is clockwise and the other is counterclockwise. How can anyone think this is intelligent design? More like creepy design…. Again, tons of absurd ad hoc reasoning is necessary to try to fit any other theory.

The time scale and rate of evolutionary change is not incompatible, and we have the evidence it happened.

Synteny is a term that describes the physical co-localization of genetic loci on the same chromosome within an individual or species. Let’s look between two different organisms.

So a creator can’t solve a puzzle? It’s not elegant at all looking it in that way. What actually happened? Translocations, centromere repositioning, and chromosome rearrangements via fission and fusion.

Creationism can’t explain this without ad hoc reasoning. Common descent, however, can explain why chromosome counts can change over time.

Simien jackal = 78 chromosomes

Gray wolf = 78

Coyote = 78

Dhole = 78

African wild dog = 78

Bush dog = 74

Kit fox = 50

Arctic fox = 50

Red fox = 36

Chinese muntjac count = 46

Indian muntjac count = 6 in females, 7 in males

Cottontail species counts = 38, 42, and 46

Etc. Etc.

Another great line of evidence is just look at the amino acid sequencing coding for proteins. Changes are conserved in the evolutionary line.

 

[snoopy7548]

If "evolution" is so real, how come there aren't any mutants like the X-Men walking around? You'd think we would have "evolved" to have powers like healing, telekinesis, or shape-shifting.

And if we "evolved" from monkeys, how come there are people who don't like bananas? I eat bananas, but I'm not crazy about them like a monkey is.

 

[VirtualLarry]

.

 

[Mai72]

I was not expecting this level of doubt on a tech forum....


Reading again, I thought you were only referring to abiogenesis but then it seems like you want to make a distinction that creationists do with “macroevolution” also. There are plenty examples of "macroevolution" e.g. horses

Evolution has so much evidence for it that there is ZERO doubt it occurred. Abiogenesis (the “creation” part) also has incredible evidence for it indirectly via the geological column even if no one knows the chemical pathway, and if a multiverse exist, then even essentially impossible probabilities are a possibility.

What's funny about it is that you can predict consistently what fossils will be found in any part of the world. But I’ve noticed with the religiously inclined it doesn’t matter if you rout them with laws and principles. No, they'll deny it and cling on to their absurd fairy tales.

Stratigraphy and the Principles of Relative Dating | WFS

" The Principle of Faunal Succession: This principle is attributed to William Smith, an English engineer in the late 1700s. Smith noticed that the kinds of fossils he found changed through a vertical succession of rock layers, and furthermore, that the same vertical changes in fossils occurred in different places. Using the fossils collected from rocks in one part of England, Smith could predict the succession of rocks and fossils in other parts of England. The observation that fossils change in a consistent manner through stratigraphic successions can be extended to the entire world. Smiths discovery formed a key line of evidence for evolution (it predates the birth of Charles Darwin in 1809), but it is an observed property of the rock record and is independent of natural selection, Darwins proposed mechanism of evolution. "

Even without contemplating abiogenesis, the chemistry/physics already does miraculous stuff without a mind behind it. Funnily enough, a creator is also a redundancy (and more complex to explain) to the universe coming into existence and requires so many absurd ad-hoc additions.

Errors in DNA Replication

Although DNA usually replicates with fairly high fidelity, mistakes do happen. The majority of these mistakes are corrected through DNA repair processes. Repair enzymes recognize structural imperfections between improperly paired nucleotides, cutting out the wrong ones and putting the right ones...

www.nature.com

“DNA replication is a truly amazing biological phenomenon. Consider the countless number of times that your cells divide to make you who you are—not just during development, but even now, as a fully mature adult. Then consider that every time a human cell divides and its DNA replicates, it has to copy and transmit the exact same sequence of 3 billion nucleotides to its daughter cells. Finally, consider the fact that in life (literally), nothing is perfect. While most DNA replicates with fairly high fidelity, mistakes do happen, with polymerase enzymes sometimes inserting the wrong nucleotide or too many or too few nucleotides into a sequence. Fortunately, most of these mistakes are fixed through various DNA repair processes. Repair enzymes recognize structural imperfections between improperly paired nucleotides, cutting out the wrong ones and putting the right ones in their place. But some replication errors make it past these mechanisms, thus becoming permanent mutations.”



Did you know male ducks have a corkscrew haahaa and female ducks have corkscrew hoohoos? The interesting bit is that they don't fit together. One is clockwise and the other is counterclockwise. How can anyone think this is intelligent design? More like creepy design…. Again, tons of absurd ad hoc reasoning is necessary to try to fit any other theory.

The time scale and rate of evolutionary change is not incompatible, and we have the evidence it happened.

Synteny is a term that describes the physical co-localization of genetic loci on the same chromosome within an individual or species. Let’s look between two different organisms.

So a creator can’t solve a puzzle? It’s not elegant at all looking it in that way. What actually happened? Translocations, centromere repositioning, and chromosome rearrangements via fission and fusion.

Creationism can’t explain this without ad hoc reasoning. Common descent, however, can explain why chromosome counts can change over time.

Simien jackal = 78 chromosomes

Gray wolf = 78

Coyote = 78

Dhole = 78

African wild dog = 78

Bush dog = 74

Kit fox = 50

Arctic fox = 50

Red fox = 36

Chinese muntjac count = 46

Indian muntjac count = 6 in females, 7 in males

Cottontail species counts = 38, 42, and 46

Etc. Etc.

Another great line of evidence is just look at the amino acid sequencing coding for proteins. Changes are conserved in the evolutionary line.

We used to think that our genes were fixed, but that is not the case. I wonder how epigenetics plays a role in all of this? I know that the study of epigenetics is a new thing, it's very interesting to see where it takes us. Seems that our environment plays a much greater role in gene expression that previously thought.

 

[BudAshes]

Go ahead and tell software developers that software just "evolves" given a large enough timescale, that it does not require intellegent, concious, input to further the development of the software.

I guarantee that you would be laughed out of the room.

Hint: Biology is "software".

I have no idea what you are talking about. You misspelled intelligent and conscious and your rant makes no sense. I can agree that we could potentially live in a virtual world, but that doesn't invalidate the Theory of Evolution.

 

[sandorski]

Go ahead and tell software developers that software just "evolves" given a large enough timescale, that it does not require intellegent, concious, input to further the development of the software.

I guarantee that you would be laughed out of the room.

Hint: Biology is "software".

Edit: And so-called "common ancestry", just means that they were created with a common pattern-design language (in DNA, proteins, etc.)

Or haven't Biologists heard of meta-programming, for example, C++ template coding. Eye<Jackal>. Ergo, an Eye. For a Jackal.

It's all a lot easier for these "non-believers" to understand this, once you understand that "quantum reality", is actually inside a series of quantum computers. (And like any good computer platform, it's self-virtualizing.) Hence, Biology (and Reality) is Software.

What does Software developement have to do with Biological Evolution?

 

[VirtualLarry]

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[VirtualLarry]

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[sandorski]

A lot. Biology is a study of carbon-based life form MACHINERY. It's running programs. Nano-tech, data-storage, it's all in there.

That is a bizarre take on it.

 

[Maxima1]

Go ahead and tell software developers that software just "evolves" given a large enough timescale, that it does not require intellegent, concious, input to further the development of the software.

I guarantee that you would be laughed out of the room.

You’re ignoring selection. Just look at dog breeds. Nobody coded anything, yet look at the variation. Same goes for clear transitions of fossilized organisms.

Edit: And so-called "common ancestry", just means that they were created with a common pattern-design language (in DNA, proteins, etc.)

What do you mean by “created”? They clearly evolved into new forms through many generations of breeding, which is evident in the geologic column. The way this is worded suggest that you think every different species was created spontaneously by a creator and not through eat, sleep, and fuck. As I pointed out, synteny demolishes it, since rearrangement of chromosomal content isn’t necessary for function nor is the conservation of neutral changes in proteins along a clear evolutionary lineage (going by morphology).

But they don't explain where the pattern-design language behind the scenes of everything, occurred.

A multiverse allows for all sorts of universes to exist. This one happens to support life; the 20 amino acids found in life have incredible properties and DNA/RNA allows the encoding of information.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/09/190910080017.htm

There are millions of possible types of amino acids that could be found on Earth or elsewhere in the Universe, each with its own distinctive chemical properties. Indeed, scientists have found these unique chemical properties are what give biological proteins, the large molecules that do much of life's catalysis, their own unique capabilities. The team had previously measured how the CAA set compares to random sets of amino acids and found that only about 1 in a billion random sets had chemical properties as unusually distributed as those of the CAAs.

 

[sdifox]

A lot. Biology is a study of carbon-based life form MACHINERY. It's running programs. Nano-tech, data-storage, it's all in there.

Look, so-called survival of the fittest (which has now been at least partially dis-proven as a theory, at least as an over-arching mechanism behind biological evolution), and "evolution" itself, are great ways for organisms to adapt to their changing environments and surroundings. But they don't explain where the pattern-design language behind the scenes of everything, occurred.

Groan... What kind of retarded creator created homo sapiens? As a species we lucked out in that we ran into cooked food or we would have been wiped out long ago.

 

[BoomerD]

Devolved, I think you mean.

Perhaps...although the throwback version (when available) is pretty decent. Apparently, the ORIGINAL moonshine mixer was more like sprite than the citrusy concoction of recent years.

 

[BoomerD]

just like gravity. Interestingly: there is far more observed, tested, and confirmed evidence for evolution than there is for gravity.

period.

I disagree. i see far more examples of gravity daily (regardless of it's source) than I do of evolution.

Do I believe evolution is true? Yes indeed, but it's something that hasn't been proven beyond any doubt.

 

[WelshBloke]

Can I try a different explanation?

Theres the thing, and our explanation about how the thing works.

So theres gravity, and our theory of gravity.
Now gravity undoubtedly exists. You can see how it affects things all the time. It's a fact that it exists.
Our theory of gravity is our explanation about how that works. That explanation might not be perfect and it might change as we get more information but it doesn't change that gravity exists.

(Gravity used as an example as it seems to hurt religious peoples heads less than evolution)

 

[JEDIYoda]

Evolution is pretty much a scientific fact today. Have you never been to school before? Do they not teach this anymore?

Evolution is widely accepted as indisputable scientific fact when, in truth, it is a system of belief. Our everyday lives revolve around science and technology. Science is a process in which we procure knowledge from empirical data. Valid science must have integrity, dependability, reliability, and be trustworthy.

 

[WelshBloke]

Evolution is widely accepted as indisputable scientific fact when, in truth, it is a system of belief.

Its really not. You might not like it but that doesn't make it less real.
Theres a ton of research and experimental proof that evolution occurs. That isn't up for debate at all.
It's like saying if I drop this apple on earth it goes down.
It's a thing that happens.
Evolution undoubtedly happens.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Can I try a different explanation?

NO!!!! hahahahhaa get it -- NO!!!

 

[WelshBloke]

NO!!!! hahahahhaa get it -- NO!!!

Is sticking your fingers in your ears and going "LALALLALALA! I CANT HEAR YOU!" supposed to be convincing us or you?

 

[randay]

beyond any doubt.

The need for things to be proven is inversely proportional to a persons intelligence. A sufficiently dumb person can doubt pretty much anything.