Can some one explain the pros and cons of having a i6 and a v6

[alfa147x]

Can some one explain the pros and cons of having a i6 over a V6

Just curious

 

[jagec]

I6s are intrinsically balanced, and so on the whole have a greater potential as engines, BUT they aren't as compact, so almost no one uses them.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: jagec
I6s are intrinsically balanced, and so on the whole have a greater potential as engines, BUT they aren't as compact, so almost no one uses them.

Yup.

One the biggest "cons" of a V6 is that in FWD applications they are transverse mounted in the engine bay. Meaning they are sort of wedged in there sideways and at an angle. This makes many serviceable items like spark plugs, belts, batteries, ect very hard to get to depending on the engine design and arrangement.

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: jagec
I6s are intrinsically balanced, and so on the whole have a greater potential as engines, BUT they aren't as compact, so almost no one uses them.

Yep. Also because an inline 6 is balanced they run smoother. Usually more reliable as well as they require less moving internals.

 

[Toastedlightly]

To add to the I6, there are more main bearing caps, which allow more power

 

[Zenmervolt]

I6

Pro: Very well balanced. Smooth power delivery. Simpler to design (from the ground up).

Con: Long, nearly impossible to fit in a FWD car (only possible with small-displacement I6 engines or with a very compact transmission, Volvo's I6 is paired with the thinnest transmission in the world and still only barely fits into the engine bay), requires more bearings to support the crankshaft, susceptible to torque along the crank and camshafts.

V6

Pro: More compact. Can be balanced well using balance shafts. Blocks can be machined on the same assembly lines as V8 engines. Easy for a manufacturer to drop into a FWD chassis. No problems with an extra-long crankshaft.

Con: Balancing the engine requires balance shafts, which rob some power. Balancing requires split throws on the crankshaft, which is more expensive to make. Two banks of cylinders means that there need to be two head castings and two sets of camshafts, which tend to increase costs and internal friction slightly.


In short, from a pure theory standpoint the I6 is a better engine, but the practical advantages of the V6 in terms of packaging and the ability to machine the block on the same assembly line as V8 engines outweigh the smoothness and efficiency advantages of the I6.

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I6

Pro: Very well balanced. Smooth power delivery. Simpler to design (from the ground up).

Con: Long, nearly impossible to fit in a FWD car (only possible with small-displacement I6 engines or with a very compact transmission, Volvo's I6 is paired with the thinnest transmission in the world and still only barely fits into the engine bay), requires more bearings to support the crankshaft, susceptible to torque along the crank and camshafts.

V6

Pro: More compact. Can be balanced well using balance shafts. Blocks can be machined on the same assembly lines as V8 engines. Easy for a manufacturer to drop into a FWD chassis. No problems with an extra-long crankshaft.

Con: Balancing the engine requires balance shafts, which rob some power. Balancing requires split throws on the crankshaft, which is more expensive to make. Two banks of cylinders means that there need to be two head castings and two sets of camshafts, which tend to increase costs and internal friction slightly.


In short, from a pure theory standpoint the I6 is a better engine, but the practical advantages of the V6 in terms of packaging and the ability to machine the block on the same assembly line as V8 engines outweigh the smoothness and efficiency advantages of the I6.

ZV

Lexus used to make a sweet I6 engine that was available in the SC300 and the GS300. I've driven both those cars and they were wonderfully smooth.

 

[Doodoo]

I think they were in the GS till 2005. If you're sitting in the car, you cant even tell if the engine is on in my 2001 sometimes.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I6

Pro: Very well balanced. Smooth power delivery. Simpler to design (from the ground up).

Con: Long, nearly impossible to fit in a FWD car (only possible with small-displacement I6 engines or with a very compact transmission, Volvo's I6 is paired with the thinnest transmission in the world and still only barely fits into the engine bay), requires more bearings to support the crankshaft, susceptible to torque along the crank and camshafts.

V6

Pro: More compact. Can be balanced well using balance shafts. Blocks can be machined on the same assembly lines as V8 engines. Easy for a manufacturer to drop into a FWD chassis. No problems with an extra-long crankshaft.

Con: Balancing the engine requires balance shafts, which rob some power. Balancing requires split throws on the crankshaft, which is more expensive to make. Two banks of cylinders means that there need to be two head castings and two sets of camshafts, which tend to increase costs and internal friction slightly.


In short, from a pure theory standpoint the I6 is a better engine, but the practical advantages of the V6 in terms of packaging and the ability to machine the block on the same assembly line as V8 engines outweigh the smoothness and efficiency advantages of the I6.

ZV

Lexus used to make a sweet I6 engine that was available in the SC300 and the GS300. I've driven both those cars and they were wonderfully smooth.

Thats a 2GZ-GE (3.0 L Iron Block), an N/A version of the 2JZ-GTE in the Toyota Supra which is known to easily push 700+ hp and handle 30 PSI.

 

[Zorba]

So how about an H6?

 

[bruceb]

I6 has very good low end torque which is why you find big inline
diesels in trucks. Some makers have gotten the V6 to the point
where you can't even feel it running such as the GM 3800 V6
and also the engine in the Mazda 6 is very smooth. Note that
most V6 engines require some sort of counter shaft to smooth
the engine out. I haven't rode in other cars to compare them against,
but I would say most are pretty good now. Horsepower is decent in
the V6 at about 200HP for the GM 3800, Honda gets 265HP out of a
V6 in the Acura line. GM also now has an Inline 5 in the 2007 and
newer pickup trucks like the Colorado .. My brother owns one and
it is a nice, but unusual engine. All aluminum block and heads.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Zorba
So how about an H6?

Don't think there is an H6...you may be thinking of a flat6/boxer engine.

An H is like two flat engine combined, I don't know much about them...I don't think they are used anymore.

A Flat 6/Boxer is an excellent arrangement. They are balanced naturally and compact, but they are known to be noisy.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Zorba
So how about an H6?

Just as perfectly smooth and balanced as the I6 but has all of the V6's disadvantages of twin-bank configuration (especially the expense, but with no need for balance shafts or crank counterweights). Biggest drawback (shared by all horizontally-opposed engines) is the wide footprint which, in order to get the engine to fit between the front wheels, limits piston stroke (and thus total displacement).

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Zorba
So how about an H6?

Don't think there is an H6...you may be thinking of a flat6/boxer engine.

An H is like two flat engine combined, I don't know much about them...I don't think they are used anymore.

A Flat 6/Boxer is an excellent arrangement. They are balanced naturally and compact, but they are known to be noisy.

Huh? 😕

"H" is the normal shorthand for the flat/boxer/Horizontally-opposed configuration.

And I'll take "rackety" at low engine speeds (as the NVH for boxers is usually described) over "buzzy" at high engine speeds, any day of the week and especially on Sundays.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Zorba
So how about an H6?

Don't think there is an H6...you may be thinking of a flat6/boxer engine.

An H is like two flat engine combined, I don't know much about them...I don't think they are used anymore.

A Flat 6/Boxer is an excellent arrangement. They are balanced naturally and compact, but they are known to be noisy.

You are confusing your terms.

"Flat" is not the same as "straight." "Flat," "Boxer," and "Horizontally Opposed" all refer to the same type of engine design, commonly found in Porsches and Subarus. Porsche makes them in 6-cylinder versions, and Subaru has made both 4 and 6 cylinder versions (though they may also offer a V6 these days, I dunno). Subaru calls their boxer 6-cylinder the "H6." Porsche just calls it a boxer six.

On another note, all the talk about boxers or straight-6's being "more reliable" or "smoother" is all fine on paper. In the real world, Subaru and Porsche engines are neither smoother nor more reliable than the better V6's out there, and yes, I've driven late-model versions of all three. The Bimmer straight-6 is smooth, but not particularly reliable. There are far too many real-world variables to simply boil it down to one engine design automatically equaling reliability.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: bruceb
I6 has very good low end torque which is why you find big inline
diesels in trucks. Some makers have gotten the V6 to the point
where you can't even feel it running such as the GM 3800 V6
and also the engine in the Mazda 6 is very smooth. Note that
most V6 engines require some sort of counter shaft to smooth
the engine out. I haven't rode in other cars to compare them against,
but I would say most are pretty good now. Horsepower is decent in
the V6 at about 200HP for the GM 3800, Honda gets 265HP out of a
V6 in the Acura line. GM also now has an Inline 5 in the 2007 and
newer pickup trucks like the Colorado .. My brother owns one and
it is a nice, but unusual engine. All aluminum block and heads.

The Acura 3.5 V6 in the RL Model has 295HP. Is very smooth, quiet and is only heard when you open up the throttle. Being 4WD it is mounted north to south.

In the 50s and 60s I-6 engines very common. Cars were a lot bigger then so room under the hood wasn't a problem, most were bullet proof. The Mopar Slant Six was used in both gas and diesel configurations and as long as it had water, oil and fuel would run forever.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: woodie1
The Acura 3.5 V6 in the RL Model has 295HP. Is very smooth, quiet and is only heard when you open up the throttle. Being 4WD it is mounted north to south.

No, the V6 in the RL is not mounted "north to south". The RL has a standard longitudinal engine arrangement, like most FWD cars. The AWD system (note that AWD is not the same as 4WD) simply uses an arrangement of 45-degree gears to power the driveshaft that goes back to the rear wheels.

ZV

 

[alfa147x]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: woodie1
The Acura 3.5 V6 in the RL Model has 295HP. Is very smooth, quiet and is only heard when you open up the throttle. Being 4WD it is mounted north to south.

No, the V6 in the RL is not mounted "north to south". The RL has a standard longitudinal engine arrangement, like most FWD cars. The AWD system (note that AWD is not the same as 4WD) simply uses an arrangement of 45-degree gears to power the driveshaft that goes back to the rear wheels.

ZV

Whats the difference between AWD and 4WD

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: woodie1
The Acura 3.5 V6 in the RL Model has 295HP. Is very smooth, quiet and is only heard when you open up the throttle. Being 4WD it is mounted north to south.

No, the V6 in the RL is not mounted "north to south". The RL has a standard longitudinal engine arrangement, like most FWD cars. The AWD system (note that AWD is not the same as 4WD) simply uses an arrangement of 45-degree gears to power the driveshaft that goes back to the rear wheels.

ZV

North-south layout:
An engine layout with the cylinders lying lengthways from the front (north) to the back (south). Also called longitudinal engine.

I erred. The engine in the RL is mounted East to West. I was thinking of the E320. And yes, they have AWD and not 4WD.

East-west layout:
Transverse positioning of the engine across the car from left to right, found in many front-wheel drive designs. Also called transverse engine. The opposite is north-south layout.

 

[fstime]

The old RL had its engine mounted "north to south" and it had a FWD drivetrain.

Better weight distribution.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Zorba
So how about an H6?

Don't think there is an H6...you may be thinking of a flat6/boxer engine.

An H is like two flat engine combined, I don't know much about them...I don't think they are used anymore.

A Flat 6/Boxer is an excellent arrangement. They are balanced naturally and compact, but they are known to be noisy.

You are confusing your terms.

"Flat" is not the same as "straight." "Flat," "Boxer," and "Horizontally Opposed" all refer to the same type of engine design, commonly found in Porsches and Subarus. Porsche makes them in 6-cylinder versions, and Subaru has made both 4 and 6 cylinder versions (though they may also offer a V6 these days, I dunno). Subaru calls their boxer 6-cylinder the "H6." Porsche just calls it a boxer six.

On another note, all the talk about boxers or straight-6's being "more reliable" or "smoother" is all fine on paper. In the real world, Subaru and Porsche engines are neither smoother nor more reliable than the better V6's out there, and yes, I've driven late-model versions of all three. The Bimmer straight-6 is smooth, but not particularly reliable. There are far too many real-world variables to simply boil it down to one engine design automatically equaling reliability.

Where did I say flat and straight were the same? A subaru H6 is not an H engine though.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: alfa147x

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: woodie1
The Acura 3.5 V6 in the RL Model has 295HP. Is very smooth, quiet and is only heard when you open up the throttle. Being 4WD it is mounted north to south.

No, the V6 in the RL is not mounted "north to south". The RL has a standard longitudinal engine arrangement, like most FWD cars. The AWD system (note that AWD is not the same as 4WD) simply uses an arrangement of 45-degree gears to power the driveshaft that goes back to the rear wheels.

ZV

Whats the difference between AWD and 4WD

Its more in term usage than actual difference. 4WD usually refers to trucks and such vehicles that simply split power in some fixed ratio between the front and rear axles.

AWD usually refers to cars and crossovers that have some sort of smart system in place so as to variably change the amount of power given to each axle / wheel depending upon conditions.

Again, technically these terms could be used interchangeably, but that's how they are mostly used in normal discussions.

 

[natto fire]

Originally posted by: alfa147x

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: woodie1
The Acura 3.5 V6 in the RL Model has 295HP. Is very smooth, quiet and is only heard when you open up the throttle. Being 4WD it is mounted north to south.

No, the V6 in the RL is not mounted "north to south". The RL has a standard longitudinal engine arrangement, like most FWD cars. The AWD system (note that AWD is not the same as 4WD) simply uses an arrangement of 45-degree gears to power the driveshaft that goes back to the rear wheels.

ZV

Whats the difference between AWD and 4WD

AWD has a center differential and will always send power to all wheels. 4wd uses a transfer case and sometimes locking hubs, and can operate in 2wd (most of the time RWD) mode.

The I6, V6 argument is summed up nicely in ZV's post, but I think he had a typo/brain lapse as most FWD cars use transverse mounting, not longitudinal.

I have never heard anyone refer to engine layouts using compass directions, kind of made me chuckle.

Alkemyst: I think they were trying to point out that an H6 is the same as a flat 6 or boxer. They are all the same term to describe an engine in which the cylinders are horizontally opposed.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: woodie1

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: woodie1
The Acura 3.5 V6 in the RL Model has 295HP. Is very smooth, quiet and is only heard when you open up the throttle. Being 4WD it is mounted north to south.

No, the V6 in the RL is not mounted "north to south". The RL has a standard longitudinal engine arrangement, like most FWD cars. The AWD system (note that AWD is not the same as 4WD) simply uses an arrangement of 45-degree gears to power the driveshaft that goes back to the rear wheels.

ZV

North-south layout:
An engine layout with the cylinders lying lengthways from the front (north) to the back (south). Also called longitudinal engine.

I erred. The engine in the RL is mounted East to West. I was thinking of the E320. And yes, they have AWD and not 4WD.

East-west layout:
Transverse positioning of the engine across the car from left to right, found in many front-wheel drive designs. Also called transverse engine. The opposite is north-south layout.

My bad, I always mix up longitudinal with transverse. 😱

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Again, technically these terms could be used interchangeably, but that's how they are mostly used in normal discussions.

You have it bass-ackwards. In common use the line between them has been strongly blurred, but on a purely technical level they denote two distinct types of systems and cannot, from a purely technical standpoint, be used interchangeably. AWD is permanently active and can vary the torque split among the wheels, while 4WD requires driver interaction to engage and sends a fixed percentage of torque to each axle.

ZV