Can I be forced into a union? [update]

[BlahBlahYouToo]

i have nothing to add to this thread other than FUCK UNIONS.

 

[sonambulo]

Even in states that do not have right-to-work laws, you may still not be forced to join the union in any official manner. However, even if you aren't forced to join the union officially, you will almost certainly still have to pay dues since even without "officially" joining the union you would be covered under the same collective bargaining agreement. This was how it worked a long time ago when I had a job in a union shop in Ohio. Even though I never officially joined the union, they still took dues out of my paycheck because I supposedly "benefited" from their negotiations. (Never mind the fact that when the store was bought out by a competitor in the same industry that used the same union the union did absolutely nothing for existing employees; people with 30 years experience at the old store had to re-apply for the exact same position with the new store and even if they were hired they'd still lose all union seniority despite it being the exact same job in the exact same industry represented by the exact same union.) Friggin' UFCW is worthless. Did absolutely nothing to help people who had been dues-paying members for decades.

ZV

Agreed. I have been in a handful of different unions and generally am in favor of them. UFCW, which I have been a member of, is a pile of shit. The leadership is not only incredibly stupid but likely secretly in bed with admin/mgmt at every store they negotiate with. Never in my fucking life have I seen a Union make concessions at every contract negotiation with companies that are rolling in profits. Pathetic.

Yeah, they actually do. Maybe not $75k in most instances, but wages are obviously grossly inflated due to unions.
What experience do you have in the matter?

With unions, you can easily end up with numerous overpaid, underperforming workers who cannot be let go.

Nonsense. I have gotten plenty of union workers shitcanned or done it personally. You have to be extremely calm, patient, and 'professional' but you can make it happen in less than six months if you put your mind to it.

 

[Beev]

i have nothing to add to this thread other than FUCK UNIONS.

Echoing this.

 

[TheSiege]

Again, its funny how people who arent apart of Union say they suck. Union Electricians in Utah make 27.84 an hour which in my opinion is underpaid. Non union makes around 22 and have to pay 275 a paycheck for medical and no retirement. The company I work for made over 55 million profit last year, and its not a public company. Thats one guy who made $55 million. Income for millionaires has triple in the past 3 decades, has it for the middle class? Fuck no. People deserve what they earn, and people need to live. Trying to raise a family on 27.84 an hour for 40 hours a week and afford a house is fucking hard...too hard. And this is why unions are needed. I could only imagine trying to do it for 22 an hour.

 

[clamum]

You will be chastised for not joining the union. I fucking HATE unions. The original point of them has been completely lost on the large scale industries. I know each union is different, but in my experience unions give an "us vs. them" mentality with salary/management folk and union folk. It's awful for workplace morale. It also seems to bring out the laziest SOBs on the planet. Fuckers know they don't have to do shit because the union will have to fight for their job in case of being let go. I haven't seen many positives where I've worked.

Haha, I swear my dad logged into your account and posted this. He's got some good (in a bad way) union stories over the past 30+ years he's worked at his job and I don't think has ever said anything good about them. He definitely wouldn't be a member but has to (or has to pay dues).

 

[J-Money]

Promotions and opportunities based on time served instead of actual skills, attitude and work ethic is a wonderful idea. Go unions.

OP, do your best to stay out, but don't raise flags on yourself as to save yourself from being outcast. Hopefully you have some seniority or you are screwed. Maybe look for new work that's not a union.

As they say, the only thing you can guarantee about a union is they will collect their dues.

 

[J-Money]

Again, its funny how people who arent apart of Union say they suck. Union Electricians in Utah make 27.84 an hour which in my opinion is underpaid. Non union makes around 22 and have to pay 275 a paycheck for medical and no retirement. The company I work for made over 55 million profit last year, and its not a public company. Thats one guy who made $55 million. Income for millionaires has triple in the past 3 decades, has it for the middle class? Fuck no. People deserve what they earn, and people need to live. Trying to raise a family on 27.84 an hour for 40 hours a week and afford a house is fucking hard...too hard. And this is why unions are needed. I could only imagine trying to do it for 22 an hour.

The company I work for is non-union and is paid higher and more productive than all the union ones in the country, so that counters your point. The company I work for made nearly a billion in profit last year.

But guess what? Anecdotal evidence doesn't matter, it's the company itself that matters on what they pay and what benefits they provide. You can get the same pay and same benefits in a non-union company and not pay a cent in retarded union dues.

Nonsense. I have gotten plenty of union workers shitcanned or done it personally. You have to be extremely calm, patient, and 'professional' but you can make it happen in less than six months if you put your mind to it.

6 months for an underperforming slacker is good? I can get rid of someone in under a month and promote who I see as the best fit for the job, not who has the most seniority.

 

[mrblotto]

You will be chastised for not joining the union. I fucking HATE unions. The original point of them has been completely lost on the large scale industries.

Very this ^

I was in a union, and the only thing I EVER got out of it was 1.5 hours of overtime over a 2 year time frame lol. Their original intent has been twisted beyond recognition IMO.

 

[sonambulo]

6 months for an underperforming slacker is good? I can get rid of someone in under a month and promote who I see as the best fit for the job, not who has the most seniority.

Where, exactly, did I say it was good? I said it was possible. If you're going to quote someone, please only refer to what they actually write.

In regards to the role seniority plays in promotion and/or termination it varies by contract. While unions generally favor seniority playing a large part in an employee's promotion all contracts are different. Personally I have never been under a contract that used seniority as a formal criteria for promotion but from what I hear it is common in other larger unions like the UAW and the airline unions.

For the record, I personally am against seniority being used as anything more than an informal criteria for promotion.

 

[alkemyst]

Again, its funny how people who arent apart of Union say they suck. Union Electricians in Utah make 27.84 an hour which in my opinion is underpaid. Non union makes around 22 and have to pay 275 a paycheck for medical and no retirement. The company I work for made over 55 million profit last year, and its not a public company. Thats one guy who made $55 million. Income for millionaires has triple in the past 3 decades, has it for the middle class? Fuck no. People deserve what they earn, and people need to live. Trying to raise a family on 27.84 an hour for 40 hours a week and afford a house is fucking hard...too hard. And this is why unions are needed. I could only imagine trying to do it for 22 an hour.

You realize $27.84 is close to $60k, chances are they also are milking overtime.

That's about double the average person and the job is not difficult.

It's funny how the union minded folks think unless a company is breaking even then they are exploiting their work force.

While people need to live, no one says one is entitled to a house and a bunch of kids.

 

[gorcorps]

Where, exactly, did I say it was good? I said it was possible. If you're going to quote someone, please only refer to what they actually write.

In regards to the role seniority plays in promotion and/or termination it varies by contract. While unions generally favor seniority playing a large part in an employee's promotion all contracts are different. Personally I have never been under a contract that used seniority as a formal criteria for promotion but from what I hear it is common in other larger unions like the UAW and the airline unions.

For the record, I personally am against seniority being used as anything more than an informal criteria for promotion.

There's a mix where I am, and I don't like it. Say a job opens up... it's either a craft (electrician/mechanic) or non-craft. If a craft job opens up then other qualified people bid on it, and it goes to the highest seniority. If nobody bids, it trickles down to non-craft folk who want to take the craft test. They bid and it goes to highest seniority. If that falls through then they start looking outside the current workforce.

 

[sonambulo]

There's a mix where I am, and I don't like it. Say a job opens up... it's either a craft (electrician/mechanic) or non-craft. If a craft job opens up then other qualified people bid on it, and it goes to the highest seniority. If nobody bids, it trickles down to non-craft folk who want to take the craft test. They bid and it goes to highest seniority. If that falls through then they start looking outside the current workforce.

And that, my friend, is Shitty with a capital S. Don't like it one bit.

 

[gorcorps]

And that, my friend, is Shitty with a capital S. Don't like it one bit.

Yup. Nobody likes it on either the management or union side, and the next contract negotiations have been under way. It's been a topic of some debate and changes have been suggested... but I have a feeling they'll keep it the same because there won't be a proper consensus on any new system. Afraid of change I guess, even if it's a change people think needs to be made.

 

[TheSiege]

The company I work for is non-union and is paid higher and more productive than all the union ones in the country, so that counters your point. The company I work for made nearly a billion in profit last year.

But guess what? Anecdotal evidence doesn't matter, it's the company itself that matters on what they pay and what benefits they provide. You can get the same pay and same benefits in a non-union company and not pay a cent in retarded union dues.



6 months for an underperforming slacker is good? I can get rid of someone in under a month and promote who I see as the best fit for the job, not who has the most seniority.

60k is not a lot, especially for one of the most dangerous jobs in America, add to that a 4 year apprenticeship. And overtime has nothing to do with an yearly salary, I shouldn't be forced to work overtime to buy a house. there is always exceptions, your company may be that exception, but when it comes to SKILLED labor, meaning construction in general, non union always trails Union on average, that is why Davis-Bacon wage is based off of Union pay. Not all unions are good or perfect, just like not all non union companies are bad. But from my experience and from my local IBEW 354 its a lot better than the alternative, and the companies make plenty of profit. And trust me, it takes less time to lay off someone in construction than most professions. You just say work is getting slow. You don't need a paper trail, or documented tardiness or laziness. And most Unions provide a way better retirement then non union. 401ks are a joke, look up the history on it, it was corporate America pulling the wool over our eyes and telling us it was something grand so they could get rid of pensions.

 

[wirednuts]

You will be chastised for not joining the union. I fucking HATE unions. The original point of them has been completely lost on the large scale industries. I know each union is different, but in my experience unions give an "us vs. them" mentality with salary/management folk and union folk. It's awful for workplace morale. It also seems to bring out the laziest SOBs on the planet. Fuckers know they don't have to do shit because the union will have to fight for their job in case of being let go. I haven't seen many positives where I've worked.

ive been in the electrical union for 10 years... and i whole wholeheartedly agree

 

[Kanalua]

Depends, in certain situations you can be (depends on the state and if the contract bargaining agreement has a union security clause).

 

[KillerCharlie]

It depends on the state of course. I don't think you technically have to join, but you still have to cough the money for dues. I'm in an engineering union which is total BS and they take your money whether you're a part you join or not.

 

[Howard]

Title sounded kind of like you're paranoid of gay marriage.

 

[Tsaico]

I am also in the camp of unions are not as effective anymore, and also became part of the problem. My wife is part of a labor union and the majority of the time they are fighting and threatening strikes for things that yes stink, but really are not that excessive. The last one was because of a raise of of 100% increase in the health care employee contribution, which sounds horrible. Until I realized that raised it from 9 bucks a month to 18 bucks. Which is funny, because the dues are 86 bucks every pay cycle (almost 200 a month, so they nearly went on strike when they pay WAY more for being in the union than they do health care). The other thing was over pensions and how the corp wanted to cut them back. Because it is a government organization, the records are all public. It turns out the overhead on people who have ALREADY retired is almost 35 percent of the ENTIRE budget. Then they release how much these guys were earning and the top 10 people are all over 200K, with two of them over 350k, and one of them getting paid twice from two different pensions from two different government jobs.

As a side note, while we benefit from it, both my wife and I acknowledge she is over paid to answer phones and get the mail. Oh she does distribute it too, so I guess it is more work now. 19 an hour, matching 401k contribution, pension of 95% of moment of retire wage, guaranteed raise of 3-10%, cannot be fired unless a crime has been committed (they cannot be fired can only be transferred, unless they commit a crime while on the job), and 20 buck full coverage health care.

 

[BigToque]

UPDATE:
I wrote to the union and this is what I was told:

The Collective Agreement between [employer] and UFCW, local [xxx], as negotiated will be a closed shop, meaning that those individuals who hold positions within the scope of the bargaining unit will be required to be union members. Therefore, if you will not be completing a Union membership application you will not be able to continue in your current capacity with [employer]. Members will have thirty (30) days from date of ratification to complete this obligation.

 

[Beev]

UPDATE:
I wrote to the union and this is what I was told:

What a load of fucking HORSESHIT.

 

[Wordplay]

UPDATE:
I wrote to the union and this is what I was told:

WOW!!!

Pay up or be fired, what mobster like tactics.

 

[olds]

UPDATE:
I wrote to the union and this is what I was told:

Ask them about "Fair Share".
I doubt they can do anything to you other than making you pay a "fair share". But if you needed a union rep, you wouldn't get one as you are not a full dues paying member. Also, no insurance if the union offers that too.

They require the fair share as you will be getting the benefits that they negotiate with the employer.

 

[Patranus]

Still haven't told us which state you are in.
I really don't get how unions are not charged with extortion.
Anyways, it sucks. Just remember this when you go to vote in November.

 

[BigToque]

Still haven't told us which state you are in.
I really don't get how unions are not charged with extortion.

I live in Manitoba, Canada.