Can I be forced into a union? [update]

[Zenmervolt]

Even in states that do not have right-to-work laws, you may still not be forced to join the union in any official manner. However, even if you aren't forced to join the union officially, you will almost certainly still have to pay dues since even without "officially" joining the union you would be covered under the same collective bargaining agreement. This was how it worked a long time ago when I had a job in a union shop in Ohio. Even though I never officially joined the union, they still took dues out of my paycheck because I supposedly "benefited" from their negotiations. (Never mind the fact that when the store was bought out by a competitor in the same industry that used the same union the union did absolutely nothing for existing employees; people with 30 years experience at the old store had to re-apply for the exact same position with the new store and even if they were hired they'd still lose all union seniority despite it being the exact same job in the exact same industry represented by the exact same union.) Friggin' UFCW is worthless. Did absolutely nothing to help people who had been dues-paying members for decades.

ZV

 

[Wordplay]

Even in states that do not have right-to-work laws, you may still not be forced to join the union in any official manner. However, even if you aren't forced to join the union officially, you will almost certainly still have to pay dues since even without "officially" joining the union you would be covered under the same collective bargaining agreement. This was how it worked a long time ago when I had a job in a union shop in Ohio. Even though I never officially joined the union, they still took dues out of my paycheck because I supposedly "benefited" from their negotiations. (Never mind the fact that when the store was bought out by a competitor in the same industry that used the same union the union did absolutely nothing for existing employees; people with 30 years experience at the old store had to re-apply for the exact same position with the new store and even if they were hired they'd still lose all union seniority despite it being the exact same job in the exact same industry represented by the exact same union.) Friggin' UFCW is worthless. Did absolutely nothing to help people who had been dues-paying members for decades.

ZV

That's what happened to my dad. He had to start at the bottom again and for less pay.

 

[skyking]

In the above cited case, the new owner had every right to negotiate a new contract. They bought the business, not the business and employees and old union contract.
If it was a reduced wage then that was the best the union could do, which sucks but happens.

 

[bignateyk]

When I worked at a grocery store in highschool you could opt out of the union. But you still had to pay union dues. It was a crock of shit.

 

[edro]

Unions are the primary reason manufacturing has left the United States.
Good jobs unions, you have done this to the American workers.

 

[alkemyst]

The point being, there must be something about working there that sucks that his coworkers feel that forming a union will solve. Why doesn't it suck for him?

More than likely an union official approached another employee and sold the idea.

They get a cut of dues.

Unions are one of the major issues we have.

There are workers I met that make $150k for doing next to nothing but being there 20 years. Starting pay for that same job is in the 25-30/hr range.

 

[Gibson486]

Yes. Look at people at Harvard. They are a union for people under 65K a year. Not everyone wants it, but they have to join.

That said, just join it. What do you have to gain by not?

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Unions are the primary reason manufacturing has left the United States.
Good jobs unions, you have done this to the American workers.

Yea, I'm sure it was the unions and not the greed of having to only pay third world wages. If only those lazy workers were willing to be paid a few dollars a day manufacturing wouldn't have left America!

This is the same stupid shit you see people posting in defense of trickle down economics. Like businesses make jobs in America as a charity to the poor and not to make profits.

 

[Beev]

If my office ever unionized I would tell them to fuck right off. I don't care in the slightest what my coworkers think of me.

 

[alkemyst]

Yea, I'm sure it was the unions and not the greed of having to only pay third world wages. If only those lazy workers were willing to be paid a few dollars a day manufacturing wouldn't have left America!

This is the same stupid shit you see people posting in defense of trickle down economics. Like businesses make jobs in America as a charity to the poor and not to make profits.

Not a few dollars...but when you have to pay assembly line workers $75k+ it's hard to make a profit.

 

[skyking]

Yea, I'm sure it was the unions and not the greed of having to only pay third world wages. If only those lazy workers were willing to be paid a few dollars a day manufacturing wouldn't have left America!

This is the same stupid shit you see people posting in defense of trickle down economics. Like businesses make jobs in America as a charity to the poor and not to make profits.

Thanks

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Not a few dollars...but when you have to pay assembly line workers $75k+ it's hard to make a profit.

Yea... except they don't actually make that.

 

[edro]

Yea... except they don't actually make that.

Yeah, they actually do. Maybe not $75k in most instances, but wages are obviously grossly inflated due to unions.
What experience do you have in the matter?

With unions, you can easily end up with numerous overpaid, underperforming workers who cannot be let go.

 

[alkemyst]

Yea... except they don't actually make that.

Umm they do, most pay info posted is starting salary.

It's like the teachers bitching about their salary. There was a college professor with tenure arguing about it at the Dog Park I go to. She was claiming how she can't survive on $35-40k/year.

Someone looked it up on their phone that she was probably making about $115k a year, based on the college and her time in service. She got pissed and stormed out of the place.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Yeah, they actually do. Maybe not $75k in most instances, but wages are obviously grossly inflated due to unions.
What experience do you have in the matter?

Wait you say they do and then they actually don't just some nebulous "grossly inflated"... Yea, convincing argument you've got going. I've been offered some assembly jobs (never accepted them). For run of the mill jobs it's more around 12$ an hour with the option to buy in to a shitty health care. There's assembly jobs that pay better, but the majority of manufacturing is not at the levels that car manufacturing is at and they don't receive 75k a year. What experience do you have?

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Umm they do, most pay info posted is starting salary.

It's like the teachers bitching about their salary. There was a college professor with tenure arguing about it at the Dog Park I go to. She was claiming how she can't survive on $35-40k/year.

Someone looked it up on their phone that she was probably making about $115k a year, based on the college and her time in service. She got pissed and stormed out of the place.

My ex-wife makes under 30k a year as a teacher. Why are you equating a college professors wage to all teachers?

 

[Krazy4Real]

That's what happened to my dad. He had to start at the bottom again and for less pay.

That sucks.

 

[kami333]

Umm they do, most pay info posted is starting salary.

It's like the teachers bitching about their salary. There was a college professor with tenure arguing about it at the Dog Park I go to. She was claiming how she can't survive on $35-40k/year.

Someone looked it up on their phone that she was probably making about $115k a year, based on the college and her time in service. She got pissed and stormed out of the place.

What college?

I'm surprised, I know what a lot of the professors I work with make (based on the grants we've submitted) and I can only think of one that comes close to that. Granted the MD and MD/PhDs make more, but they also have clinic duties to contend with.

 

[EagleKeeper]

 

[edro]

Wait you say they do and then they actually don't just some nebulous "grossly inflated"... Yea, convincing argument you've got going. I've been offered some assembly jobs (never accepted them). For run of the mill jobs it's more around 12$ an hour with the option to buy in to a shitty health care. There's assembly jobs that pay better, but the majority of manufacturing is not at the levels that car manufacturing is at and they don't receive 75k a year. What experience do you have?

Granted, most of my experience is in automotive, so maybe I should be referring to UAW.
I know numerous people (relatives) who work or have worked in unskilled manufacturing positions, making over $40/hour + overtime.
I grew up hearing stories of worthless coworkers who couldn't be fired because of the unions.

 

[GotIssues]

Unions can serve a good purpose when used for the purposes they were orginally designed for (give some power to the powerless), but the majority of the ones I've had to work with are a crock of shit that flat out steal money from those that can't afford to lose any money.

My last experience was the worst. A decertification vote came up, and they started flat out lying and talking in "can do's" as if they were "will do's" to scare the shit out of employees. Had the organization pulled the same shit as those asstard mother fuckers, we'd have been sued in a hearbeat.

The union employees get the same benefits and the same base pay as anyone else in our organization, they just pay $500 to some lying sack of shit union. This union preys on the less intelligent to extort money from people who actually need it in order to line their own pockets.

Each person pays $500/year in order to gain absolutely nothing, zero, nada, zip. The union strong-arms, coerces, threatens, and lies to scare the workers into complying. The union can burn in hell for all I'm concerned. The union leader is the lowest of the low of scumbags. Fuck him with a hot screwdriver.

/rant

PS - I really, really hate the sleezebag union leader. The shit he pulled that was flat out lying and stealing pisses me off to an extreme degree.

PS part 2 - Like I started with - some unions are, in fact, good. The problem is, a very large proportion have changed from "for the good of the workers" to "for the good of my pocketbook" - Don't believe me? Check to see how much money your higher ups in the unions make.

 

[Zenmervolt]

In the above cited case, the new owner had every right to negotiate a new contract. They bought the business, not the business and employees and old union contract.
If it was a reduced wage then that was the best the union could do, which sucks but happens.

Not arguing about the business owner's right to renegotiate. I'm saying that the union didn't even try. People asked the union to go to bat and at least make an effort and the union told them to pound sand.

ZV

 

[Wordplay]

Yeah, they actually do. Maybe not $75k in most instances, but wages are obviously grossly inflated due to unions.
What experience do you have in the matter?

With unions, you can easily end up with numerous overpaid, underperforming workers who cannot be let go.

I think my uncle makes around $60k based on conversations I had with him, which he works for Chrysler. His wife works for Chrysler as well and she bitched when she was forced to work full time to keep her pay. If she wanted to stay part time she would start to make $16 an hour which was half the pay.

I'm sorry and I even told my uncle this but making $30 an hour to screw in some bolts is fucking ridiculous.

 

[alkemyst]

My ex-wife makes under 30k a year as a teacher. Why are you equating a college professors wage to all teachers?

She probably hasn't been a teacher long then or just not applied herself.

 

[alkemyst]

I think my uncle makes around $60k based on conversations I had with him, which he works for Chrysler. His wife works for Chrysler as well and she bitched when she was forced to work full time to keep her pay. If she wanted to stay part time she would start to make $16 an hour which was half the pay.

I'm sorry and I even told my uncle this but making $30 an hour to screw in some bolts is fucking ridiculous.

Not to mention the very lucrative benefits plan they get.