Can God create a stone SO heavy not even he can lift it?

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: eaj0010

Originally posted by: Schfifty Five
God cannot be understood on our level of thinking. Like Child of Wonder mentioned, the question itself if flawed b/c we cannot begin to understand the omnipotence of God (that is if you actually do believe in God).

But a way of answering this would be to ask another question. How does creating a stone so heavy that He cannot lift glorify Himself? Remember, everything God does in one way or another glorifies him. If that's true, then the original question does not fall into the scope of God.

But like I said, we can't understand God fully so the question isn't valid.

FAIL

Indeed. It seems that theists have an answer for everything, even when they don't. Can't provide a logical answer? No problem, just claim that humans cannot come even remotely close to understanding "god's awesomeness", and voila, there's an answer for that pesky thinker. That'll shut him/her up!

Honestly, some theists don't want to argue, they don't come to the table with an argument. They only come with "truth", and they're going to tell you what's what, and then except you to surrender or shut up. How dare you question "truth", amirite? Well, at least, the MEAN ones do this. Meaning, the stupid ones. <3

 

[Modelworks]

Does a black hole count ?

 

[Sureshot324]

Have we ever had a religious thread on here that didn't go to at least 5 pages?

 

[antyler]

Originally posted by: TehMac
Not really. Why worry about something really stupid that has no effect whatsoever on anything?

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: TheSiege
I read it in a book. Its kind of a conundrum. God can create anything, so can't he create a stone that it is too heavy for even Him? Well if He does then He is limited by his own creation, which would go against Him being omnipotent. So can He not create a stone too heavy for Him? Then He would be limited again.

Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes/no?

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Sureshot324
Have we ever had a religious thread on here that didn't go to at least 5 pages?

This is not a religious thread. It's a "logic confuses me" thread, except for Child of Wonder and the like.

 

[legoman666]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
Pointless question, given that there is no evidence whatsoever that "God" even exists in the first place.

dude... its in the bible!

 

[eleison]

Given how little we know about the universe and our surroundings, using logic to deduce God is impossible. Scientists don't even know where humans can from. As humans, we are not in a position to "throw out random verbal test" to define God or to determine if it/he exists.

I think Einstein (who is smarter then 99.99% of us on this board) believed in a God.

 

[Wuffsunie]

Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
I always thought this was the most clever answer.

As to the question, can God crate a rock he can't lift, the short answer is, "Of course."

God is omnipotent. The existence of the rock does not negate God's omnipotence, because the qualities of a physical object - in other words, a finite object - are negligible to an infinite being. Any relationship between the infinite and the finite must be defined by the infinite.

Essentially, the rock is too heavy to lift by an act of divine decree. God would simply define it as too heavy to lift and use that definition when interacting with it.

So, if this was a boxing match, God would throw the fight.

 

[TruePaige]

It's the cat man.

It's alive.

It's dead.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: TehMac
Not really. Why worry about something really stupid that has no effect whatsoever on anything?

Actually, it's a great way to instantly shut Christians up. God is supposed to be all-powerful and either way you answer the question, God ceases to be God.

"...disappeared in a puff of logic"

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Schfifty Five


But a way of answering this would be to ask another question. How does creating a stone so heavy that He cannot lift glorify Himself? Remember, everything God does in one way or another glorifies him. If that's true, then the original question does not fall into the scope of God.

God sounds like such a douchebag.

 

[Nocturnal]

Maybe we're all just too stupid to comprehend what God is and does. That's a thought for you.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Nocturnal
Maybe we're all just too stupid to comprehend what God is and does. That's a thought for you.

Nah, that's an intellectual cop-out

 

[polarmystery]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
It's the cat man.

It's alive.

It's dead.

I see what you did there...

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: eleison
Given how little we know about the universe and our surroundings, using logic to deduce God is impossible. Scientists don't even know where humans can from. As humans, we are not in a position to "throw out random verbal test" to define God or to determine if it/he exists.

I think Einstein (who is smarter then 99.99% of us on this board) believed in a God.

No he didn't. At least not a "god" that Religion would recognize. His use of the term was an all encompassing inclusion of things not understood and the shear awesomeness of the vastness of the Universe.

 

[ahurtt]

The answer is both yes and no at the same time.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: SampSon
God doesn't make sense when you apply logic.

Of course God does not make sense when you apply logic. God defies logic. To try to apply logic to God is a logical fallacy in itself. God is the embodiment of anti-logic. God is faith. It makes no more sense to try and apply logic to God than it makes sense to try to say. . .become the worlds strongest man by starving yourself to death. You have to throw logic out the window when you are talking about God. Kind of like when you are trying to understand your wife.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Does a black hole count ?

Black holes are said to have infinite density, but they do have a very finite mass. You can create a black hole with the mass of Earth, but it would be confined to a tiny point, shrouded in its event horizon boundary. With a more massive black hole, the singularity might be the same size, but the mass would be greater, and thus the event horizon (point of no return for light) would extend out farther.

Originally posted by: ahurtt
Of course God does not make sense when you apply logic. God defies logic. To try to apply logic to God is a logical fallacy in itself. God is the embodiment of anti-logic. God is faith. It makes no more sense to try and apply logic to God than it makes sense to try to say. . .become the worlds strongest man by starving yourself to death. You have to throw logic out the window when you are talking about God. Kind of like when you are trying to understand your wife.

Therefore God should never be taught in any science class. Science uses logic, and slowly removes the requirements for the existence of faith by finding proof.

If God isn't logical, can we place logical value in any of his rules for us? Are they logical?


And I find understanding your wife to be difficult, too.

 

[darkxshade]

Originally posted by: SoundTheSurrender
Can an all powerful God commit suicide?

Maybe he did when he found out we killed his son and would explain why he hasn't been heard from since.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: SampSon
God doesn't make sense when you apply logic.

Of course God does not make sense when you apply logic. God defies logic. To try to apply logic to God is a logical fallacy in itself. God is the embodiment of anti-logic. God is faith. It makes no more sense to try and apply logic to God than it makes sense to try to say. . .become the worlds strongest man by starving yourself to death. You have to throw logic out the window when you are talking about God. Kind of like when you are trying to understand your wife.

I'm sorry, but anything that exists can be discussed logically. What you've basically admitted is that God doesn't exist.

Maybe that's what you were trying to say...

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Cerpin Taxt

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: SampSon
God doesn't make sense when you apply logic.

Of course God does not make sense when you apply logic. God defies logic. To try to apply logic to God is a logical fallacy in itself. God is the embodiment of anti-logic. God is faith. It makes no more sense to try and apply logic to God than it makes sense to try to say. . .become the worlds strongest man by starving yourself to death. You have to throw logic out the window when you are talking about God. Kind of like when you are trying to understand your wife.

I'm sorry, but anything that exists can be discussed logically. What you've basically admitted is that God doesn't exist.

Maybe that's what you were trying to say...

That may not have been what he intended to say, but what he said makes perfect sense, is correct, and you have drawn the correct conclusion from his post :laugh:

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: eleison
Given how little we know about the universe and our surroundings, using logic to deduce God is impossible. Scientists don't even know where humans can from. As humans, we are not in a position to "throw out random verbal test" to define God or to determine if it/he exists.

I think Einstein (who is smarter then 99.99% of us on this board) believed in a God.

Science deals with matter and energy not eternal and infinite beings. Science will never be able to provide an answer to God by empirical methods. Ever. By scientific logic, God is illogical.

And Einstein was a pantheist. He did not believe in a personal God, but he described the beauty and wonder of the universe as the essense of God.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Cerpin Taxt

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: SampSon
God doesn't make sense when you apply logic.

Of course God does not make sense when you apply logic. God defies logic. To try to apply logic to God is a logical fallacy in itself. God is the embodiment of anti-logic. God is faith. It makes no more sense to try and apply logic to God than it makes sense to try to say. . .become the worlds strongest man by starving yourself to death. You have to throw logic out the window when you are talking about God. Kind of like when you are trying to understand your wife.

I'm sorry, but anything that exists can be discussed logically. What you've basically admitted is that God doesn't exist.

Maybe that's what you were trying to say...

Well I would never go so far as to actually say that God doesn't exist. Who am I to say that? Besides. . .what if he does? I wouldn't want to piss him off. I guess it depends on how you define "exist." I will say that the belief in God certainly exists. Is there any scientific basis for proof that he exists? Absolutely not. Nor can there ever be in matters of faith. All I'm saying is, if enough people believe God exists, it stops being insanity and starts becoming a socially accepted societal norm. If you see a single person standing in a room talking to nobody in particular, that person will likely end up in a mental institution. If you see a whole congregation of people doing the same, it's called praying. Draw your own conclusions.

The problem I have with religion in general is that it provides a convenient scapegoat for people who do not want to accept personal responsibility for their own immoral actions. Because if you believe in God then you probably also believe there is also a Satan. How convenient it is to be able to blame all of our personal shortcomings and evil deeds on somebody else. . .Guess what, the devil didn't make us do anything. We did it ourselves. But God forgives all, so no need to do any thoughtful introspection and make meaningful changes in ones self. Just apologize to God and all is forgiven. It'd be nice if things were really that simple wouldn't it?

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Cerpin Taxt

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: SampSon
God doesn't make sense when you apply logic.

Of course God does not make sense when you apply logic. God defies logic. To try to apply logic to God is a logical fallacy in itself. God is the embodiment of anti-logic. God is faith. It makes no more sense to try and apply logic to God than it makes sense to try to say. . .become the worlds strongest man by starving yourself to death. You have to throw logic out the window when you are talking about God. Kind of like when you are trying to understand your wife.

I'm sorry, but anything that exists can be discussed logically. What you've basically admitted is that God doesn't exist.

Maybe that's what you were trying to say...

Well I would never go so far as to actually say that God doesn't exist. Who am I to say that? Besides. . .what if he does? I wouldn't want to piss him off. I guess it depends on how you define "exist." I will say that the belief in God certainly exists. Is there any scientific basis for proof that he exists? Absolutely not. Nor can there ever be in matters of faith. All I'm saying is, if enough people believe God exists, it stops being insanity and starts becoming a socially accepted societal norm. If you see a single person standing in a room talking to nobody in particular, that person will likely end up in a mental institution. If you see a whole congregation of people doing the same, it's called praying. Draw your own conclusions.

If god is really all knowing and all powerful, I don't think he'll be pissed that we don't believe in him because he hasn't made a house call in 2000 years.

And just because it becomes a social norm, doesn't mean its logical. Nazism was the social norm, yet it really wasn't logical to kill the Jews, was it?

And if a God does exist, there is no reason that it cannot be the Chinese God, or the Egyptian God. So, believing in the Christian god can also mean purgatory