Can Christians Do Good For Goodness Sake?

[Hayabusa Rider]

I believe you are talking about the Dunning-Kruber effect.

Dunning-Kruger actually, just for accuracy. Fascinating thing.

 

[IronWing]

That really is the rub right there. Christians will submit that a mere mortal such as ourselves could never fathom the "mind of God", thus our puny little minds could never understand his motives.

Why did you create a god like that? To me, it seems like a weird thing to do.

 

[Moonbeam]

I believe you are talking about the Dunning-Kruber effect.

I think there is a connection but what I am talking about has been known for thousands of years. It is enshrined in our K through PhD educational system or that Rome wasn't built in a day and into religious institutions and religious teaching schools including schools of psychological and spiritual education that are completely hidden from the mechanical ordinary world of men. It is present in the notion not to cast pearls before swine etc.

It is the same problem with psychotherapy. Most people are terrified of the notion of sharing their inner secrets because of the problem you described in your earlier post, they are riddled with guilt and shame and also demoralized and held back by the notion of 'should forgive' before they are ready. A good therapist isn't easy to find because the emphasis seems to be to learn to live with your illness. I say fuck that. I have lived with mine all of my life, hehe. I saw somebody who was 99.999% sure he was well and I want to be like him. I got to see up close the difference between being awake and asleep, not to mention my own little brush with that myself.

There seem to be two factors that determine who can approach a real search for the truth, one, a person with an intense curiosity, and the other, somebody so deeply hurt they are filled with desperation. The latter have much less ego to overcome that most so they have much less to lose.

On top of all of this is the matter of suitability. There are three well know kinds of people, the physical man, the emotional man, and the intellectual man and three known paths for them. Physical man, the fakir, seeks mastery via the body, a Zen swordsman or Kung Fu master would be an example. The way of the religious monk is the way of the heart, the adoration of a god to the point of merger, and the way of the mind via mental forms of yoga, the stopping of thought and the awakening into being. Some people can work in two dimensions for 3 more types of people, and one type can do all three. Except for the last type there can be barriers and misunderstanding between different types.

We see in this thread the intellectual whose way is to wipe clean all attachment of beliefs from their egos arguing with people who need faith that transcends all doubt.

There is one truth that is called many names like God or enlightenment or self mastery or what have you that opens into the same conscious experience. It isn't a thing but a state of being, a slipping through the veil of delusion called duality. It can't be given to those who do not know nor taken from those who do. It is a secret that is protected from by the veil of the particular nature of the unconscious assumptions that govern our mechanical thinking. People who hate themselves will not see the God that is within them because what is within them in their feelings, the things we really unconsciously believe, is that we are worthless and undeserving of Him.

So when people attack Christians because their God is absurd they are right about much of the doctrine but wrong about the fact that more of the faithful step over the abyss into God consciousness than atheists who have to pass right though it. They would do better to practice yoga and shut their fucking minds up. Let the real Christians show the blind ones the way. There should be at least two or three somewhere in the world. Ah me, I need to go lie on my bed of nails.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Atheism, in contrast to religion, is a delusion. It prescribes any behavior its adherent seeks to undertake without eternal consequence including tax evasion, theft, murder and molestation. When you get to make your own moral compass, you fail.

 

[IronWing]

Atheism, in contrast to religion, is a delusion. It prescribes any behavior its adherent seeks to undertake without eternal consequence including tax evasion, theft, murder and molestation. When you get to make your own moral compass, you fail.

Weak sauce, you know you have it in you to troll better than this. Sloth is one of the deadly sins.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

There seem to be two factors that determine who can approach a real search for the truth, one, a person with an intense curiosity, and the other, somebody so deeply hurt they are filled with desperation. The latter have much less ego to overcome that most so they have much less to lose.

The latter have much less inclination to actually seek the truth and more inclination to grasp onto anything that presents itself. That's where you get Jonestown, Heaven's Gate and Branch Davidians. To find any sort of truth a person needs to have enough discernment to distinguish between the real and the farcical and anyone who accepts an invisible man in the sky as the truth is clearly on the farcical side of the equation.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Atheism, in contrast to religion, is a delusion. It prescribes any behavior its adherent seeks to undertake without eternal consequence including tax evasion, theft, murder and molestation. When you get to make your own moral compass, you fail.

This is your cohort, theists. Bask in all its glory.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Weak sauce, you know you have it in you to troll better than this. Sloth is one of the deadly sins.

It is the truth Mr. Wing. I sure hope you are not an atheist.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Atheism, in contrast to religion, is a delusion. It prescribes any behavior its adherent seeks to undertake without eternal consequence including tax evasion, theft, murder and molestation. When you get to make your own moral compass, you fail.

Fuck you.

 

[Moonbeam]

It is the truth Mr. Wing. I sure hope you are not an atheist.

You are looking at it from a religious perspective. Look at if from an Atheist's point of view. All the absolute moral truths prescribed in your holy books were. in their opinion written by man and not any god because no god exists, so it is silly to say that man alone can't come up with some pretty good ethical rules. Perhaps what you are thinking is what you fear you would be like if you doubted in the existence of God. But seriously, if that is all that keeps you from acting like you think atheists would act then you would have to be some sort of sociopath. I think you know perfectly well that you know such behavior is wrong without believing in God and if you lost your faith you wouldn't lose your morality. Give others some credit. Surely you were told not to judge.

 

[FelixDeCat]

You are looking at it from a religious perspective. Look at if from an Atheist's point of view. All the absolute moral truths prescribed in your holy books were. in their opinion written by man and not any god because no god exists, so it is silly to say that man alone can't come up with some pretty good ethical rules. Perhaps what you are thinking is what you fear you would be like if you doubted in the existence of God. But seriously, if that is all that keeps you from acting like you think atheists would act then you would have to be some sort of sociopath. I think you know perfectly well that you know such behavior is wrong without believing in God and if you lost your faith you wouldn't lose your morality. Give others some credit. Surely you were told not to judge.

You have a point Mr. Moonbeam; perhaps it was not wise to assume all atheists are prone to misbehavior.

Nevertheless it would prudent for all atheists to avoid sin.

 

[IronWing]

You have a point Mr. Moonbeam; perhaps it was not wise to assume all atheists are prone to misbehavior simply because some think they can get away with anything. Im sure there are good atheists here and there who would do any of the aforementioned things.

See, I knew you could do better if you applied yourself.

 

[FelixDeCat]

See, I knew you could do better if you applied yourself.

You forgot to catch my ninja edit.

 

[bshole]

Atheism, in contrast to religion, is a delusion. It prescribes any behavior its adherent seeks to undertake without eternal consequence including tax evasion, theft, murder and molestation. When you get to make your own moral compass, you fail.

Ironically every living human makes their own moral compass, Christians just credit a non-existent entity for it.

Felix, how could you prove that God created your moral compass? Your moral compass is nothing more than neurons firing in a particular order.... how do you prove that God makes them fire in the same order for all humans to establish this moral code? How do you explain the differences in moral code between all the Christian sects..... why is God giving each of them a different moral code?

Why is it sinful and wrong to require evidence to believe in something?

 

[bshole]

Ironically every living human makes their own moral compass, Christians just credit a non-existent entity for it.

Felix, how could you prove that God created your moral compass? Your moral compass is nothing more than neurons firing in a particular order.... how do you prove that God makes them fire in the same order for all humans to establish this moral code? How do you explain the differences in moral code between all the Christian sects..... why is God giving each of them a different moral code?

Why is it sinful and wrong to require evidence to believe in something?

Felix, I want you to note that I have objective scientifically gathered evidence to back up my assertion above. What do you have backing up your assertion other than a 2000 year old book?

 

[IronWing]

Ironically every living human makes their own moral compass, Christians just credit a non-existent entity for it.

It's an attempt to dodge responsibility for ones own moral code.

 

[MajinCry]

It's an attempt to dodge responsibility for ones own moral code.

If we're taking a page out of God's books for morals, then the Westboro lads have it on-point; God really does hate fags.

Leviticus 20:13

"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Funnily enough, Saudi Arabia enacts that into law. I think Felix would do just fine over there.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Leviticus 20:13

Every wannabeliever should be forced to read and memorize every word of Leviticus and to then live by it. That would be the end of Christianity.

 

[MajinCry]

Every wannabeliever should be forced to read and memorize every word of Leviticus and to then live by it. That would be the end of Christianity.

Or it would be the beginning of another genocidal saga.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Or it would be the beginning of another genocidal saga.

Nah. Christians treat the big book of fairy tales like a Chinese menu, they choose one belief from column A and 2 from column B and ignore everything that is difficult or inconvenient. That allows them to do whatever they want while pretending they're listening to God. Leviticus is so awful, so stupid that nobody would actually live by all of it. Anyone that read it all and tried to live by it all would be an atheist 20 seconds later.

 

[bshole]

Nah. Christians treat the big book of fairy tales like a Chinese menu, they choose one belief from column A and 2 from column B and ignore everything that is difficult or inconvenient. That allows them to do whatever they want while pretending they're listening to God. Leviticus is so awful, so stupid that nobody would actually live by all of it. Anyone that read it all and tried to live by it all would be an atheist 20 seconds later.

...and they can go into exquisite detailing exactly why THOSE verses don't apply to them but the verses on homosexuality do apply. What they are saying is that you can't read the Bible at face value, you need Christian interpreters to tell you what is relevant and what is not. Can you imagine if our Biology books or history books were written like this?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

...and they can go into exquisite detailing exactly why THOSE verses don't apply to them but the verses on homosexuality do apply. What they are saying is that you can't read the Bible at face value, you need Christian interpreters to tell you what is relevant and what is not. Can you imagine if our Biology books or history books were written like this?

What they're saying is that you need THEM to tell you what is relevant. That's how we wound up with nearly 40,000 distinct sects of Christianity in 1700 years. Every "Christian" that doesn't like the existing interpretations of the big book of fairy tales simply invents a new sect that allows him to believe exactly what he wants to believe and tosses out what he doesn't feel like doing.

 

[MajinCry]

What they're saying is that you need THEM to tell you what is relevant. That's how we wound up with nearly 40,000 distinct sects of Christianity in 1700 years. Every "Christian" that doesn't like the existing interpretations of the big book of fairy takes simply invents a new sect that allows him to believe exactly what he wants to believe and tosses out what he doesn't feel like doing.

To expand upon this point, what Christians do with the Bible is synonymous with this wee example.

As dictator of the German Reich, he [Adolf Hitler] initiated World War II in Europe with the invasion of Poland in September 1939 and was a central figure of the Holocaust.

What that really means, is that Mr. Adolf was extending a message of peace and love with the Polish, but they ignored him. He extended a message of peace and love to the rest of Europe, and they ignored him. As a result, he had to punish them for not accepting their love. He is a father that merely had to reign in his unruly children.

That's what interpreting is; making up complete bullshit to hide evil.

 

[Blue_Max]

To expand upon this point, what Christians do with the Bible is synonymous with this wee example.

What that really means, is that Mr. Adolf was extending a message of peace and love with the Polish, but they ignored him. He extended a message of peace and love to the rest of Europe, and they ignored him. As a result, he had to punish them for not accepting their love. He is a father that merely had to reign in his unruly children.

That's what interpreting is; making up complete bullshit to hide evil.

Shouldn't all this be considered bannable hate speech? After all, if the same were said about islam it would be...

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Shouldn't all this be considered bannable hate speech? After all, if the same were said about islam it would be...

Are you ever not triggered?