Can Christians Do Good For Goodness Sake?

[Puffnstuff]

You should let all of Joel Olsteen's followers in on this knowledge. That is a lot of fake Christians running around lol

The people who pedal the gospel for personal gain, as in the wealth and riches of this world, will suffer in the end. There are many sad examples of this and they are always money centric with their message.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I'm an atheist as well, just not a childish asshole. You're the kind of person that gives us a bad name.

Well suck it up, buttercup. I don't care if you're a theist or just some pansy cuck white-knighting for them on the internet. You wouldn't have to worry about your precious fee-fees getting hurt if you and/or they actually adhere to some rational and rigorous standards of evidence for the shit they're constantly spouting off about.

You whine and cry that somebody dares to point out that the emperor has no clothes, and yet I'm the childish one. Good grief, find yourself a safe space already.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

The people who pedal the gospel for personal gain, as in the wealth and riches of this world, will suffer in the end. There are many sad examples of this and they are always money centric with their message.

So, every organized Christian religion ever. Got it.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Its because I take Genesis Chapter 1 at face value that I believe that combined with using critical thinking and physical evidence provided by the facts that surround me.

You don't get to say you take genesis at face value and use critical thinking in the same sentence. They cannot co-exist.

I really feel sorry for you and people like you who are so filled with hate and bias that you attack everyone around you who holds a different view. As a matter of fact that is the very same kind of hate I see coming from organized religion.

As pointed out already, this isn't a difference of opinion. You believe demonstrably false things. You are ignorant, and apparently willfully so like so many other Christians.

 

[interchange]

Um, Islam?

Pretty sure blowing up people in the name of one's imaginary friend of choice is categorically bad.

That is not supported by Islam, just a small proportion of Muslims. Your words are highly insulting.

And there are actions which need to be removed from society (involving willful violation of another), and thus are categorically bad, but I would not on an individual level lose compassion for them on this basis. In a certain way, dehumanizing people for such actions makes it easier for them to do the same.

 

[raildogg]

As long as people identify with a label (such as Christian), it is impossible for them to look at the whole picture.

 

[raildogg]

Christians (are supposed to) adhere to the Bible. From sex slavery to genocide, I don't think that book is something that we want people to be following. Thankfully, many Christians haven't even read the Bible, and fewer even know a handful of the commandments, with fewer still following any of them.

The whole basis of Christianity, is that you do what God commands (i.e, follow the commandments to a T), and you'll go to Heaven. Don't, and you have consequently broken a/several commandments, and are to be put to death. With the introduction of the NT, it doesn't end there; break the commandments, and when you die, you are thrust into eternal hellfire and torment.

I guess the pop culture version of Christianity, where we give prezzies to each other on Santa day and eggs on Easterbunny day, is much more adhered to than, well, the actual religion.

Ok, let's forget the Bible for the time being (not that anyone follows it).

What should people be following?

It seems in the modern world, the only religion seems to be that of money and personal achievements. Despite what words come out, most people seem to be chasing these goals, with money being their true God. Our schools, our society, our leaders and everyone in between is pushing this on us. It has been this way for years.

The religions, including Christianity, teach people to be modest, humble, spiritual, etc. but the people live the exact opposite way. It seems that people just wear religion as an exoskeleton. It really doesn't affect their day to day life in any way. If it did, the conduct of people would be different - would it not?

The way things are and have been, religion is a giant game perpetrated on the masses to keep them feeling good about themselves.

Just for facts sake:

With the amount of wealth Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam have, they could eradicate poverty and malnutrition. You are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars of wealth here, if not more.

 

[Moonbeam]

These things may be true in Christianity.Atreus21, but they do not appear to be true in Christianity.RedHawk, nor do I reckon they are likely to hold in, say, Christianity.FredPhelps, or Christianity.PatRobertson.

So I guess thanks for declaring your personal opinions, but since they seem to lack any objective basis, they don't really mean anything.

I believe that Christianity is a player in world culture and is in a way an averaging of all the opinions Christians take on as to what it is. As I believe that to be an objective fact I find Atreus21's comments to be anything but meaningless. I think his opinion and all who may think similarly to be a welcome plus to what the average Christian belief is. His view parallels something I believe to be true of psychology, that efforts by the ego to heal the self will always fail because it is the ego itself that is the source of the sickness. As the apprehension of mental health or the seeking of the answer to the question of what is the good depend on ego death, I support his understanding that good acts alone won't get you to heaven. 'Where is heaven?' asked the atheist........"What is water'? asked the fish.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Just for facts sake:

With the amount of wealth Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam have, they could eradicate poverty and malnutrition. You are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars of wealth here, if not more.

Let's break it down even further: If any one of those religions had a real god he could eradicate poverty and malnutrition himself. Or in the case of Hinduism, themselves.

Every religion pretty much comes down to the following message: Our god can do anything! He can cure the sick, feed the hungry and protect the children. Now give us your money to do those things because he won't.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Every religion pretty much comes down to the following message: Our god can do anything! He can cure the sick, feed the hungry and protect the children. Now give us your money to do those things because he won't.

I'd augment that to include: if you're poor/sick/hungry/brown then God must hate you so I am justified in hating you.

 

[MajinCry]

Ok, let's forget the Bible for the time being (not that anyone follows it).

What should people be following?

It seems in the modern world, the only religion seems to be that of money and personal achievements. Despite what words come out, most people seem to be chasing these goals, with money being their true God. Our schools, our society, our leaders and everyone in between is pushing this on us. It has been this way for years.

The religions, including Christianity, teach people to be modest, humble, spiritual, etc. but the people live the exact opposite way. It seems that people just wear religion as an exoskeleton. It really doesn't affect their day to day life in any way. If it did, the conduct of people would be different - would it not?

The way things are and have been, religion is a giant game perpetrated on the masses to keep them feeling good about themselves.

Just for facts sake:

With the amount of wealth Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Islam have, they could eradicate poverty and malnutrition. You are talking about hundreds of billions of dollars of wealth here, if not more.

Well, no, the religions don't teach that at all. They command rape, slaughter, genocide, (sex) slavery, etc. At least that is the case for the Abrahamic religions. I think Jainism and Hinduism are pretty decent ones; they're not too big on the whole violence thing. Buddhism would be as well, if it weren't for the fact that it enacts two classes, with the non-Buddhists being serfs at the best of times.

And aye, you're right that most people do not follow their religion, thankfully. As we've seen in the Middle East, with Muslims that do follow the teachings of Yahweh...They're not too pleasant to live near.

As for what people should follow instead, there are two answers.

1. If it's a concept they want, then morality. Do good, help the innocent, punish the evil. As an example: don't kill a woman because she was raped and did not scream, even though the Bible tells you to. Offer her support, and get rid of the rapist instead.

2. If it's a figure they want, Fred Rogers seems like a great guy. Everybody oughta be like him. Failing that, Christopher Hitchens. Both, if people want a Pantheon.

On the subject of wealth, the Catholic Church, the ol' end game of the Roman Empire, has a fortune of a couple trillion pounds. They could reshape Liberia into a pretty nice place with that kind of money. Alas, raping children and donning fanciful robes is much higher on the to-do list.

 

[Blue_Max]

Well, no, the religions don't teach that at all. They command rape, slaughter, genocide, (sex) slavery, etc. At least that is the case for the Abrahamic religions.

Then why aren't the Jews & Christians DOING it, then? Why is the world so conspicuously absent of Christians doing, say, the same thing muslims are - and in the same (or greater) numbers?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Then why aren't the Jews & Christians DOING it, then? Why is the world so conspicuously absent of Christians doing, say, the same thing muslims are - and in the same (or greater) numbers?

Holy crap. It's impossible to believe a person could be that ignorant. The Christians ARE doing it and they've been doing it for far longer than Islam. Pull your head out of your ass and read up on what's going on in the real world. What Christians with the Vaticans backing are doing in Africa and what Christian missionaries are doing in the remote Pacific islands makes Islam look the like teddy bears picnic.

 

[MajinCry]

Holy crap. It's impossible to believe a person could be that ignorant. The Christians ARE doing it and they've been doing it for far longer than Islam. Pull your head out of your ass and read up on what's going on in the real world. What Christians with the Vaticans backing are doing in Africa and what Christian missionaries are doing in the remote Pacific islands makes Islam look the like teddy bears picnic.

It's ol' Blue. When Christians do it, it's not because of Christianity. But when Muslims do it, it's because of Islam. Aside from the usual suspects, I think most have him on ignore. He spouts the same drivel over and over after all.

 

[Blue_Max]

Holy crap. It's impossible to believe a person could be that ignorant. The Christians ARE doing it and they've been doing it for far longer than Islam. Pull your head out of your ass and read up on what's going on in the real world. What Christians with the Vaticans backing are doing in Africa and what Christian missionaries are doing in the remote Pacific islands makes Islam look the like teddy bears picnic.

Wow..... talk about believing what you prefer to believe. I'm guessing your PoliSci professor taught you this?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Wow..... talk about believing what you prefer to believe. I'm guessing your PoliSci professor taught you this?

educate us oh enlightened little snowflake. let us bask in your knowledge of religion.

 

[Blue_Max]

It's ol' Blue. When Christians do it, it's not because of Christianity. But when Muslims do it, it's because of Islam.

Read the books in question. You have to dig out a few fairly obscure sections of the bible to find the 'calls to violence' you claim it's rife with. The overall arc of what's told in there is far more about peace and getting along (even with those who are different, even enemies!) than it is about revenge or entitlement.
The opposite is true with the books of islam, where the majority of the text deals with forcible conversion, never liking or trusting the kaffirs (non-believers) and how to treat them in order to convert or destroy them. Overall arc is very, very, very different.

...and that's evidenced through world history. While far from untarnished, one has certainly caused more hardship and bloodshed than the other. To say christianity is worse (in both the last 1500 years or just the last 150) is going against all historical and see-it-with-your-own-eyes evidence. And it shows a blatant zealotry on your part to hate one and embrace the other, ignoring the many sins of one and magnifying the few of the other.

 

[Meghan54]

educate us oh enlightened little snowflake. let us bask in your knowledge of religion.

So, you're asking the doorknob to explain itself? Hahahahahahahahaaaaa!!

Alas, I, too, have fallen into its trap on occasion. But it's still funny.

 

[Puffnstuff]

educate us oh enlightened little snowflake. let us bask in your knowledge of religion.

Oh dear, I'm in trouble as I no longer own a snow shovel.

You don't get to say you take genesis at face value and use critical thinking in the same sentence. They cannot co-exist.

I disagree with you on that.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Lol, the bible thumpers came out to play. I quit going to church after I realized how horrible most church goers were, and then to just ask for forgiveness from time to time and all is well, what a crock.

I go to church. My church readily admits how bad we are on our own. Myself especially. I'm a disaster. I go back because I realize what a mess I am. It helps. I'll need to continue to go the rest of my life otherwise I go completely off the tracks. Church is for the sinners. Just as hospitals are for the sick.

 

[Red Hawk]

If a Christian believes he can earn his way into heaven, he is quite mistaken. We have only one hope as hopelessly sinful and fallen beings, and that is God's mercy and grace. Christians are called to do good works to emulate Christ, not out of a selfish desire for salvation that is out of their capacity to achieve on their own. There is much biblical material to back this up.

A Christian who does good things to buy his entry into Heaven has missed the point.



Perhaps by this logic we shouldn't be grateful to firemen or policemen who are willing to sacrifice their lives for us for the simple reason that they are paid for their work.



I think your impression of Christians here is mistaken. I don't think most Christians calculate the salvation-value of each good act before they undertake it. They help fellow humans for the simple fact that they are fellow humans, the same as Atheists do in your example.



No one save for God knows what awaits us in Heaven.

Well said, I agree.

Well, no, the religions don't teach that at all. They command rape, slaughter, genocide, (sex) slavery, etc. At least that is the case for the Abrahamic religions. I think Jainism and Hinduism are pretty decent ones; they're not too big on the whole violence thing. Buddhism would be as well, if it weren't for the fact that it enacts two classes, with the non-Buddhists being serfs at the best of times.

Christianity doesn't teach these things. Or, more specifically, Jesus and the Apostles didn't teach these things.

 

[Victorian Gray]

All the usual marxist progressives in full force condemning how awful Christianity is...

...yet you know which religion they'll turn blue in the face screaming support for.

No hypocrisy at all. nnnNope.

Aww

 

[MajinCry]

Well said, I agree.

Christianity doesn't teach these things. Or, more specifically, Jesus and the Apostles didn't teach these things.

Christianity is more than just the NT, and even the NT has some nasty stuff in it. Provided a couple verses demonstrating that earlier.

Still have to follow that OT law until the conditions for the new covenant are fulfilled, which Jesus himself said are impossible.

 

[Red Hawk]

Christianity is more than just the NT, and even the NT has some nasty stuff in it. Provided a couple verses demonstrating that earlier.

Still have to follow that OT law until the conditions for the new covenant are fulfilled, which Jesus himself said are impossible.

No, we don't, actually. Romans 7:4-6:

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.[c]

 

[Moonbeam]

Discussing religion is like talking about belief in cargo cults. Every rational person free from the brainwashing of religion knows that the wooden plane religions call God will never fly. Such constructions are aerodynamic absurdities. Then the atheists go on to make an equally false and irrational conclusion that there are no such thing as planes.

How the stupid love to fight among themselves over who is the stupidest. The religious may be naive as hell and appear to be gullible idiots, but so many atheists are additionally willed with arrogance. They believe that if they can't see God nobody else can either. "That pile of wood will never fly you dumb asses!!!!" Well Duh, what the fuck else is new.

How like an empty sky is an empty head?