Can anyone look over my biceps workout?

[996GT2]

I used to do individual sets with short breaks in between every set, but lately I've found that doing supersets gives me a more intense workout. As a result, I began changing my workout to utilize more supersets.

This is the bicep workout I did today. Any comments on things I'm doing right/wrong? My goal is to build mass and strength.

Thanks.

Warm-up: 10 chin ups

Seated bar curls (picture here)

75 lb x 8 (30-60 sec rests between sets)
75 lb x 6
75 lb x 6
75 lb x 6
75 lb x 6

...3-5 min break...

Standing dumbbell curls (picture here)
(weight is per arm)

45 lb x 6 reps per arm, no rest between sets
40lb x 6
35lb x 6
30lb x 6
25lb x 6

...3-5 min break...

40 lb x 6 (no rest between sets)
35 lb x 6
30 lb x 6
25 lb x 6
20 lb x 6

...3-5 min break...

7-7-7s

Basically standing bar curls where you do the first 7 as half-curls utilizing the lower half of the range of motion, then do the second 7 half curls utilizing the upper half of the range of motion, then do 7 full curls with no rest in between.

55 lbs x 21 reps
50 lbs x 21
50 lbs x 21
45 lbs x 21
45 lbs x 21
45 lbs x 21

...3-5 min break...

Lat Pulldown Machine

110 lb x 10 (30-60 sec rest between sets)
120 lb x 8
130 lb x 6
140 lb x 6

 

[KoolDrew]

What makes you think you need an entire workout dedicated to such a small muscle? Also, what makes you think so much volume is necessary?

 

[brikis98]

First, read the Bill Starr on Getting Bigger Arms thread.

Originally posted by: 996GT2
My goal is to build mass and strength.

Then you'll probably want to do lots of squats, deadlifts and other heavy compound exercises. I don't know what the rest of your routine looks like, but 20+ sets of bicep curls will probably be a very ineffective way to get bigger & stronger. Judging by the weights you are using, what you really want is a beginner strength training routine, such as the one described in Starting Strength (check out the wiki here) or Stronglifts 5x5.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: brikis98
First, read the Bill Starr on Getting Bigger Arms thread.

Originally posted by: 996GT2
My goal is to build mass and strength.

Then you'll probably want to do lots of squats, deadlifts and other heavy compound exercises. I don't know what the rest of your routine looks like, but 20+ sets of bicep curls will probably be a very ineffective way to get bigger & stronger. Judging by the weights you are using, what you really want is a beginner strength training routine, such as the one described in Starting Strength (check out the wiki here) or Stronglifts 5x5.

Will doing squats and deadlifts build mass in the biceps though? They seem to utilize the back and legs much more than the biceps, but correct me on that if I'm wrong.

I should have clarified...my goal for this set of exercises is to build strength, endurance, and mass in the biceps. I do this workout 2 days a week. The other 2 days I do my chest/triceps workout, and on the remaining 2 days I do Taekwondo or some other cardio, along with abs, etc. (1 day is rest day each week).

Am I doing too much to be effective? I used to do just single sets, but I never felt like my biceps were getting as much of a workout as they do now that I do supersets.

 

[KoolDrew]

You build mass by primarily using progressively heavier weights over a period of time. In other words, getting stronger. That's where your main focus should be, not a bunch of pump and fluff crap. Just because your biceps are sore as hell at the end of a workout doesn't mean anything. If you get stronger in compound pulling movements (chins and rows) and a single (or maybe 2 max) bicep movement, your biceps will grow given an adequate amount calories to support growth is present.

Also, your back and legs are the largest muscle groups in your entire body. Therefore deadlifts and squats contribute tremendously towards a goal of achieving mass. Not only in the back and legs either. Abdominal strength is required for both lifts, forearms, traps, etc. So they are more than just leg and back movements.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
You build mass by primarily using progressively heavier weights over a period of time. In other words, getting stronger. That's where your main focus should be, not a bunch of pump and fluff crap. Just because your biceps are sore as hell at the end of a workout doesn't mean anything. If you get stronger in compound pulling movements (chins and rows) and a single (or maybe 2 max) bicep movement, your biceps will grow given an adequate amount calories to support growth is present.

So I should be doing sets of curls and other bicep exercises with only 3-4 reps/set at close to the maximum weight I can do, with a longer break between sets?

How many sets should be doing of each exercise?

And is it necessary to do some high rep sets at the end of a workout to build endurance (for example, doing 7-7-7s)

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
Will doing squats and deadlifts build mass in the biceps though? They seem to utilize the back and legs much more than the biceps, but correct me on that if I'm wrong.

You didn't read the Bill Starr thread or anything else I linked, did you?

Yes, squats and deadlifts build mass EVERYWHERE. They are full body exercises that use 70%+ of the muscles in your body and they produce massive hormonal responses that increase mass and strength all over your body. Read through the links in my previous reply for more info.

Originally posted by: 996GT2
I should have clarified...my goal for this set of exercises is to build strength, endurance, and mass in the biceps.

First of all, your biceps will get bigger/stronger in less time if you do heavy compound exercises for your whole body rather than just bicep curls. Second of all, why is this your primary goal?

Originally posted by: 996GT2
I do this workout 2 days a week. The other 2 days I do my chest/triceps workout, and on the remaining 2 days I do Taekwondo or some other cardio, along with abs, etc. (1 day is rest day each week).

So you do no strength training for all the biggest muscle groups in your body (legs & back)?

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: 996GT2
Will doing squats and deadlifts build mass in the biceps though? They seem to utilize the back and legs much more than the biceps, but correct me on that if I'm wrong.

You didn't read the Bill Starr thread or anything else I linked, did you?

Yes, squats and deadlifts build mass EVERYWHERE. They are full body exercises that use 70%+ of the muscles in your body and they produce massive hormonal responses that increase mass and strength all over your body. Read through the links in my previous reply for more info.

Originally posted by: 996GT2
I should have clarified...my goal for this set of exercises is to build strength, endurance, and mass in the biceps.

First of all, your biceps will get bigger/stronger in less time if you do heavy compound exercises for your whole body rather than just bicep curls. Second of all, why is this your primary goal?

Originally posted by: 996GT2
I do this workout 2 days a week. The other 2 days I do my chest/triceps workout, and on the remaining 2 days I do Taekwondo or some other cardio, along with abs, etc. (1 day is rest day each week).

So you do no strength training for all the biggest muscle groups in your body (legs & back)?

Regarding the links you posted, I did briefly read through them (re-reading now), but I simply found it a bit hard to belive since I've never really read into this type of thing before.

As far as legs to, I'm already pretty happy with the size of my legs after having done TKD for about 6 years. However, TKD mostly worked the lower body, so I want to mostly work on upper body now because I think that's where I'm lacking. Currently I weigh about 185 (6 ft 1) and can bench my body weight about 8 times, but I really want to be able to get to a point where I can bench 225 or more for the same number of reps. Same thing goes for biceps, triceps, and other parts of upper body.

My back workout is lacking...right now I only do good mornings for back. As far as legs go, I think that it's more helpful for me to do many repetitions (for endurance), since it's more useful in Taekwondo to be able to last through a sparring match.

What I usually do for legs consists of jumping squats (a squat followed by a high bjump and knee-tuck at the end of every set (like this, but with a much higher jump at the end). This doesn't necessarily build a ton of strength, but it builds speed, explosive power and flexibility, which are important to kicking. I usually do sets of 20, followed by 20 non-jumping squats and repeat this combination several times.

Thanks for all the advice btw. I really do appreciate it, but right now I'm facing what seems to be an overload of information.

 

[KoolDrew]

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So I should be doing sets of curls and other bicep exercises with only 3-4 reps/set at close to the maximum weight I can do, with a longer break between sets?

No. Generally I stick to 5-8 reps for compounds movements and anywhere from 8-12 for isolation movements. However, what I meant by the comment is that you need to be adding weight to the bar over time, regardless of your chosen rep range. This means instead of your concentration being on completely annihilating your biceps, you should be concentrating on adding weight to the bar in a given rep range.

How many sets should be doing of each exercise?

That depends on way too many factors to give a definitive answer. Frequency, rep ranges, the movement in question, etc. are all factors.

How long have you been lifting? What are your current stats?

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

[/
So I should be doing sets of curls and other bicep exercises with only 3-4 reps/set at close to the maximum weight I can do, with a longer break between sets?

No. Generally I stick to 5-8 reps for compounds movements and anywhere from 8-12 for isolation movements. However, what I meant by the comment is that you need to be adding weight to the bar over time, regardless of your chosen rep range. This means instead of your concentration being on completely annihilating your biceps, you should be concentrating on adding weight to the bar in a given rep range.

How many sets should be doing of each exercise?

That depends on way too many factors to give a definitive answer. Frequency, rep ranges, the movement in question, etc. are all factors.

How long have you been lifting? What are your current stats?

I've been lifting about once/twice a week for the past year now.

I weigh 185 lbs and I'm 6' 1" tall.

My current bench max is ~210lbs. My chin-up max is 20 full reps.

Hmm, as far as adding weights go, I have been doing that, albeit gradually. Last month I was doing my supersets beginning at 40 lb with difficulty, and now I can start them at 45 without any issues. Are you suggesting to do single sets with rest in between, starting with a lighter weight and working up with every subsequent set?

For example, on dumbbell curls, starting at 40, then doing 45, then upping to 50, etc?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
The thing is, I'm already pretty happy with the size of my legs after having done TKD for about 6 years.

Almost everyone thinks they have "strong legs" from the various sports they play until they actually try to squat, deadlift, clean, snatch, etc. I used to play tons of hockey, had massive quads and thought my legs were good enough. Then I started squatting. In less than 2 months, I was noticeably faster on the ice. After a year, the difference was ridiculous. I'd bet that if you add squatting, deadlifting & o-lifts to your routine, you will see your performance in TKD increase dramatically.

Originally posted by: 996GT2
What I usually do for legs consists of jumping squats (a squat followed by a high bjump and knee-tuck at the end of every set (like this, but with a much higher jump at the end). This doesn't necessarily build a ton of strength, but it builds speed, explosive power and flexibility, which are important to kicking. I usually do sets of 20, followed by 20 non-jumping squats and repeat this combination several times.

Jumping squats and air squats are excellent tools, but bodyweight exercises only get you so far. The build a small amount of strength & power and good amounts of muscular endurance. However, I would again argue that your TKD performance would improve far more by developing ALL aspects of your fitness more: strength, power, speed, agility, endurance, etc. To do this, you need to work your entire body. For example, the olympic lifts (clean & jerk, snatch) are known for building incredible explosive strength, which is extremely useful for fighting. Check out the What is Fitness? article for more info.

Also, it's worth mentioning that the size of your biceps will have only a minimal effect on your TKD performance. Those 2 days a week you waste doing countless bicep curls could be used much more effectively...

 

[KoolDrew]

Are you suggesting to do single sets with rest in between, starting with a lighter weight and working up with every subsequent set?

No. Do straight sets.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew

Are you suggesting to do single sets with rest in between, starting with a lighter weight and working up with every subsequent set?

No. Do straight sets.

Sorry for being noob, but what exactly is a "straight set"?

Do you just do say, 6 reps, then take a break, then do another set? Should you be increasing weight with each set?

 

[KoolDrew]

Same weight each set.

 

[996GT2]

Reading up on Stronglifts 5x5 right now, I think I might just change my entire workout routine to that.

The only issue I can see right now is that my university's gym doesn't have a power rack, only a smith rack. The weight room does have freeweight racks for bench, incline, decline bench, overhead press, etc, but no power rack. How much of a problem will that be?

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
Reading up on Stronglifts 5x5 right now, I think I might just change my entire workout routine to that.

The only issue I can see right now is that my university's gym doesn't have a power rack, only a smith rack. The weight room does have freeweight racks for bench, incline, decline bench, overhead press, etc, but no power rack. How much of a problem will that be?

It really depends. If you high-bar back squat and don't mind dropping weight on the ground occasionally, then there is no problem. If, for flexibility or because of gym policy, you can't drop weights or have to use a low-bar back squat, then you have a little worry. The most obvious solution, though, would be to use the racks and get two guys to spot you during squats.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: 996GT2
Reading up on Stronglifts 5x5 right now, I think I might just change my entire workout routine to that.

The only issue I can see right now is that my university's gym doesn't have a power rack, only a smith rack. The weight room does have freeweight racks for bench, incline, decline bench, overhead press, etc, but no power rack. How much of a problem will that be?

It really depends. If you high-bar back squat and don't mind dropping weight on the ground occasionally, then there is no problem. If, for flexibility or because of gym policy, you can't drop weights or have to use a low-bar back squat, then you have a little worry. The most obvious solution, though, would be to use the racks and get two guys to spot you during squats.

Yeah, we can't drop heavy weights onto the ground in the regular gym (non-varsity sports). Deadlifts are OK, but I don't think doing squats and dropping that much weight onto the ground is.

So I guess I'm forced to do squats on the smith machine, which obviously doesn't work the stabilizing muscles nearly as much as doing freeweight squats. Will that be a big issue though?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
So I guess I'm forced to do squats on the smith machine, which obviously doesn't work the stabilizing muscles nearly as much as doing freeweight squats. Will that be a big issue though?

Don't use the Smith machine. It's not even close in mechanics or effectiveness to a free weight squat.

Possible alternatives:

1. Go to a different gym that has a power rack or squat racks. Or, buy the equipment for your own house - you can usually get it really cheap on craigslist.

2. If your gym has squat stands or boxes you can stack, put the weight on those and then squat with a spotter.

3. Use the alternatives from this stronglifts article, especially the power clean & front squat technique. The power clean is an extremely useful lift to learn, as it develops explosive strength that'll be very useful for a sport like TKD. Most people front squat quite a bit more than they power clean, so this will limit the weight you can use on squats, but it's still a good start.

4. As a last resort, consider dumbbell squats, weighted lunges and weighted step-ups. Unfortunately, none of these are particularly good alternatives to a proper back squat, so make a strong effort to find a gym which does have a power rack.

 

[996GT2]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: 996GT2
So I guess I'm forced to do squats on the smith machine, which obviously doesn't work the stabilizing muscles nearly as much as doing freeweight squats. Will that be a big issue though?

Don't use the Smith machine. It's not even close in mechanics or effectiveness to a free weight squat.

Possible alternatives:

1. Go to a different gym that has a power rack or squat racks. Or, buy the equipment for your own house - you can usually get it really cheap on craigslist.

2. If your gym has squat stands or boxes you can stack, put the weight on those and then squat with a spotter.

3. Use the alternatives from this stronglifts article, especially the power clean & front squat technique. The power clean is an extremely useful lift to learn, as it develops explosive strength that'll be very useful for a sport like TKD. Most people front squat quite a bit more than they power clean, so this will limit the weight you can use on squats, but it's still a good start.

4. As a last resort, consider dumbbell squats, weighted lunges and weighted step-ups. Unfortunately, none of these are particularly good alternatives to a proper back squat, so make a strong effort to find a gym which does have a power rack.

I just remembered that while the weight room doesn't have a dedicated power rack, the rack for overhead press does have j-hooks hanging from one side that allows squats. All systems go.

I'm going to replace my current workout scheme with this for a month and see how it goes. Thanks guys.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: 996GT2
I just remembered that while the weight room doesn't have a dedicated power rack, the rack for overhead press does have j-hooks hanging from one side that allows squats. All systems go.

I'm going to replace my current workout scheme with this for a month and see how it goes. Thanks guys.

Nice! BTW, I don't know how much experience you have with squatting & deadlifting, but getting the form right on those lifts is essential. If you have any doubts at all, I highly recommend getting Starting Strength - it's far and away the best guide to the major barbell lifts that I've ever seen. If you're going to be doing those lifts 3 times a week for a month (or more), it's well worth the $30 and couple hours to make sure you're doing them right.

 

[spamsk8r]

Good choice on changing up your workout routine. You'll see much better gains with a full body routine 3x a week. Also, remember that if you want to gain mass and strength you need to eat enough food to allow that to happen. If you don't eat enough you'll see your gains stall much sooner than you would otherwise. Also, start low with your initial weights. This is for 3 reasons:

1) To allow you to get acquainted with the movements and to focus on getting good form
2) To allow your body to acclimate itself to the stimulus and strengthen the smaller stabilizing muscles
3) You will be able to increase the weight for a longer period of time before stalling, with minimal risk of injury

Good luck with your training, and keep us posted on your gains.