Can Americans explain to me why ...

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
USians spend twice what we spend.
Capitalism is humanly inefficient and absurd.
The drugs industry spends as much on marketing as for research.
99% of the drugs they put on the market bring nothing more than a higher price. They manage to get the authorization to sell them because corrupt doctors falsify the studies in hospitals. Anyway everyone at the federal agency is corrupt too.
Insurance companies make more money if they do not pay for your cancer.
Who wants to be an USian?
Not me.
Good luck!

More baseless claims, its like you try to be ignorant. Also, you "everyone" in any argument is a dangerous claim. To win the contention back to my side all I have to do is name one who runs counter current to the behavior you claim "everyone" in the group exhibits. Very dangerous indeed.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Alistar7
I suggest you take a more recent look at history and they way some of those dictators are viewed by their own people now, even as they hide out in France with the child molestors Japan and the AU are not in the EU, and single countries might be higher, what about overall? And what about the quality of care they recieve at that advacned age? % of the population, alot more at play there but go ahead and be simple, it suits your intellect level. Thanks for playing.

Helped Iraq get WMD, yes, stopped after he used them to commit genocide, yes, the EU did not.

You need to look into Iran's history too, thats basically a product of British and Soviet influence and "rule", not US. Actually alot of the problems of the ME stem from what the UK did there after ww1.

you posted that people in the USA live longer, I prove that they don't live longer - SIMPLE - GOT IT?????

you are proving your intellectual level in all those thread. You don't know the difference between 2 african countries LOL.

glad to see you live in a country with child molesting priests

Sigh you speak of intelligence but then you attempt to cast off the notion of child molesting priests as the norm in America, furthermore you seek to push the point that such activities do not exist in Europe, which is a fallacy, you want to have your cake and eat it too, looks like you choked on it...

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Alistar7
not my religion. Nice to see you cannot resist the urge to do what you blast others for though, your bias is as obvious as ever.

You did not prove anything though, what is the AVERAGE life expectancy of the EU?

"The last decades of the 20th century were marked by an increasing east?west
gradient in mortality and an increasing gap in life expectancy between people
living in the eastern and western parts of the European Region (Fig. 4). All western
European countries have enjoyed a continuous increase in life expectancy. In the
EU countries, the average gain between 1970 and 1998 was 6.4 years at birth,
4.9 years at age 15 and 3.4 years at age 65. Although life expectancy at birth in
1970 was on average similar in the eastern part of the Region, a gap has opened up
between the CCEE and the EU countries amounting to 5.5 years in 1990 and
5.9 years in 1998. The gap between the EU countries and the NIS is even wider
(7.2 and 10.2 years, respectively) (Fig. 5). The NIS experienced large fluctuations
in life expectancy, and in particular a marked decline between 1986 and 1994.
The latest figures again reveal a deterioration, after some improvement in the
second half of the 1990s. The trends are similar for men and women, with the
traditional male disadvantage. Nevertheless, the female?male difference in life
expectancy is much greater in the NIS (11.1 years on average) and in the CCEE
(about 7.6 years) than in the EU (about 6.3 years). According to the most recent
reports, 27 countries in the Region have already reached a life expectancy at birth
of more than 75 years, while 11 countries remain below 70 years.


Did you "forget" to add those 11 countries who don't even make it to 70 on average?

HAAAHAHHAHAH

is this the best you can do??????? I just wanted to clarify that the US has not the highest life expectancy. That's why I posted my link to the WHO. IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.

Who said the US had the highest life expectancy? Allistair simply said "we also live longer" This is a true statement as proved by his and your numbers, we do live longer his contention was never that we had the highest life expectancy, simply that on average we live longer than... where the elipse delineates any country with a lower life expectancy than the United States. Thanks for playing.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Alistar7
I suggest you take a more recent look at history and they way some of those dictators are viewed by their own people now, even as they hide out in France with the child molestors Japan and the AU are not in the EU, and single countries might be higher, what about overall? And what about the quality of care they recieve at that advacned age? % of the population, alot more at play there but go ahead and be simple, it suits your intellect level. Thanks for playing.

Helped Iraq get WMD, yes, stopped after he used them to commit genocide, yes, the EU did not.

You need to look into Iran's history too, thats basically a product of British and Soviet influence and "rule", not US. Actually alot of the problems of the ME stem from what the UK did there after ww1.

you posted that people in the USA live longer, I prove that they don't live longer - SIMPLE - GOT IT?????

you are proving your intellectual level in all those thread. You don't know the difference between 2 african countries LOL.

glad to see you live in a country with child molesting priests

Sigh you speak of intelligence but then you attempt to cast off the notion of child molesting priests as the norm in America, furthermore you seek to push the point that such activities do not exist in Europe, which is a fallacy, you want to have your cake and eat it too, looks like you choked on it...

you better get the sh*t out of your eyes and look who started the thing
of course like a true patriot you stick up for your fellow american

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Alistar7
not my religion. Nice to see you cannot resist the urge to do what you blast others for though, your bias is as obvious as ever.

You did not prove anything though, what is the AVERAGE life expectancy of the EU?

"The last decades of the 20th century were marked by an increasing east?west
gradient in mortality and an increasing gap in life expectancy between people
living in the eastern and western parts of the European Region (Fig. 4). All western
European countries have enjoyed a continuous increase in life expectancy. In the
EU countries, the average gain between 1970 and 1998 was 6.4 years at birth,
4.9 years at age 15 and 3.4 years at age 65. Although life expectancy at birth in
1970 was on average similar in the eastern part of the Region, a gap has opened up
between the CCEE and the EU countries amounting to 5.5 years in 1990 and
5.9 years in 1998. The gap between the EU countries and the NIS is even wider
(7.2 and 10.2 years, respectively) (Fig. 5). The NIS experienced large fluctuations
in life expectancy, and in particular a marked decline between 1986 and 1994.
The latest figures again reveal a deterioration, after some improvement in the
second half of the 1990s. The trends are similar for men and women, with the
traditional male disadvantage. Nevertheless, the female?male difference in life
expectancy is much greater in the NIS (11.1 years on average) and in the CCEE
(about 7.6 years) than in the EU (about 6.3 years). According to the most recent
reports, 27 countries in the Region have already reached a life expectancy at birth
of more than 75 years, while 11 countries remain below 70 years.


Did you "forget" to add those 11 countries who don't even make it to 70 on average?

HAAAHAHHAHAH

is this the best you can do??????? I just wanted to clarify that the US has not the highest life expectancy. That's why I posted my link to the WHO. IS THAT SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.

Who said the US had the highest life expectancy? Allistair simply said "we also live longer" This is a true statement as proved by his and your numbers, we do live longer his contention was never that we had the highest life expectancy, simply that on average we live longer than... where the elipse delineates any country with a lower life expectancy than the United States. Thanks for playing.

with we live longer he meant "we live longer in the US then in Europe".
of course you still have the same sh*t in your eyes

Thx for playing

note: maybe you can make a statement like Alistair did in my sigh. I need more of that to expand my sigh

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Alistar7
I suggest you take a more recent look at history and they way some of those dictators are viewed by their own people now, even as they hide out in France with the child molestors Japan and the AU are not in the EU, and single countries might be higher, what about overall? And what about the quality of care they recieve at that advacned age? % of the population, alot more at play there but go ahead and be simple, it suits your intellect level. Thanks for playing.

Helped Iraq get WMD, yes, stopped after he used them to commit genocide, yes, the EU did not.

You need to look into Iran's history too, thats basically a product of British and Soviet influence and "rule", not US. Actually alot of the problems of the ME stem from what the UK did there after ww1.

you posted that people in the USA live longer, I prove that they don't live longer - SIMPLE - GOT IT?????

you are proving your intellectual level in all those thread. You don't know the difference between 2 african countries LOL.

glad to see you live in a country with child molesting priests

Sigh you speak of intelligence but then you attempt to cast off the notion of child molesting priests as the norm in America, furthermore you seek to push the point that such activities do not exist in Europe, which is a fallacy, you want to have your cake and eat it too, looks like you choked on it...

you better get the sh*t out of your eyes and look who started the thing
of course like a true patriot you stick up for your fellow american

You don't even know what patriotism is if you think it is standing up for your countrymen, so don't throw that crap out there, stop trying to confuse the issue, you didn't bring anything new to the discussion nor did you hit any of my previous contentions, you simply said take she "sh*t out of your eyes and look who started the thing" which I have a hard time discerning why that is relevant here?

/edit as for your open invitation to furnish you with another sig worthy quote: I don't stoop to ad hominem attacks, I strive to stay on issue, something which you obviously missed in your last retort.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Alistar7
I suggest you take a more recent look at history and they way some of those dictators are viewed by their own people now, even as they hide out in France with the child molestors Japan and the AU are not in the EU, and single countries might be higher, what about overall? And what about the quality of care they recieve at that advacned age? % of the population, alot more at play there but go ahead and be simple, it suits your intellect level. Thanks for playing.

Helped Iraq get WMD, yes, stopped after he used them to commit genocide, yes, the EU did not.

You need to look into Iran's history too, thats basically a product of British and Soviet influence and "rule", not US. Actually alot of the problems of the ME stem from what the UK did there after ww1.

you posted that people in the USA live longer, I prove that they don't live longer - SIMPLE - GOT IT?????

you are proving your intellectual level in all those thread. You don't know the difference between 2 african countries LOL.

glad to see you live in a country with child molesting priests

Sigh you speak of intelligence but then you attempt to cast off the notion of child molesting priests as the norm in America, furthermore you seek to push the point that such activities do not exist in Europe, which is a fallacy, you want to have your cake and eat it too, looks like you choked on it...

you better get the sh*t out of your eyes and look who started the thing
of course like a true patriot you stick up for your fellow american

You don't even know what patriotism is if you think it is standing up for your countrymen, so don't throw that crap out there, stop trying to confuse the issue, you didn't bring anything new to the discussion nor did you hit any of my previous contentions, you simply said take she "sh*t out of your eyes and look who started the thing" which I have a hard time discerning why that is relevant here?

/edit as for your open invitation to furnish you with another sig worthy quote: I don't stoop to ad hominem attacks, I strive to stay on issue, something which you obviously missed in your last retort.

OK - start reading the thread and then tell me why you attacked me first and not Alistair7 or that Guy-Idiot-Guy
do you have an explanation???

you can clearly see that Alistair wanted to prove that americans live longer then europeans. When I proved to him that that was not the case he started with "yeah, but you didn't include eastern-european countries. I just wanted to show him that "the americans live longer" is not a valid reason why healthcare is twice as expensive as in the EU because EU citizens live longer.

got it???

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Alistar7
I suggest you take a more recent look at history and they way some of those dictators are viewed by their own people now, even as they hide out in France with the child molestors Japan and the AU are not in the EU, and single countries might be higher, what about overall? And what about the quality of care they recieve at that advacned age? % of the population, alot more at play there but go ahead and be simple, it suits your intellect level. Thanks for playing.

Helped Iraq get WMD, yes, stopped after he used them to commit genocide, yes, the EU did not.

You need to look into Iran's history too, thats basically a product of British and Soviet influence and "rule", not US. Actually alot of the problems of the ME stem from what the UK did there after ww1.

you posted that people in the USA live longer, I prove that they don't live longer - SIMPLE - GOT IT?????

you are proving your intellectual level in all those thread. You don't know the difference between 2 african countries LOL.

glad to see you live in a country with child molesting priests

Sigh you speak of intelligence but then you attempt to cast off the notion of child molesting priests as the norm in America, furthermore you seek to push the point that such activities do not exist in Europe, which is a fallacy, you want to have your cake and eat it too, looks like you choked on it...

you better get the sh*t out of your eyes and look who started the thing
of course like a true patriot you stick up for your fellow american

You don't even know what patriotism is if you think it is standing up for your countrymen, so don't throw that crap out there, stop trying to confuse the issue, you didn't bring anything new to the discussion nor did you hit any of my previous contentions, you simply said take she "sh*t out of your eyes and look who started the thing" which I have a hard time discerning why that is relevant here?

/edit as for your open invitation to furnish you with another sig worthy quote: I don't stoop to ad hominem attacks, I strive to stay on issue, something which you obviously missed in your last retort.

OK - start reading the thread and then tell me why you attacked me first and not Alistair7 or that Guy-Idiot-Guy
do you have an explanation???

you can clearly see that Alistair wanted to prove that americans live longer then europeans. When I proved to him that that was not the case he started with "yeah, but you didn't include eastern-european countries. I just wanted to show him that "the americans live longer" is not a valid reason why healthcare is twice as expensive as in the EU because EU citizens live longer.

got it???

Ok first off you did not show that EU citizens live longer, you did show that citizens in several EU countries have a higher life expectancy than the united Sates, but Over all you did not show that EU has a higher life expectancy than the US. Secondarily you are now attempting to use this fallacious contention as primary justification for your contention that Americans do not get better health care. Your entire argument is based on a house of cards, you don't have much to go on here...

/edit I have not attacked anyone, I have attacked issues, and my first post in this thread was a retort to Guy, although which issues I choose to contend are not pertinent to this discussion and is a feeble attempt to throw a smoke screen out by making yourself a victim.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: DaiShan

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Alistar7
I suggest you take a more recent look at history and they way some of those dictators are viewed by their own people now, even as they hide out in France with the child molestors Japan and the AU are not in the EU, and single countries might be higher, what about overall? And what about the quality of care they recieve at that advacned age? % of the population, alot more at play there but go ahead and be simple, it suits your intellect level. Thanks for playing.

Helped Iraq get WMD, yes, stopped after he used them to commit genocide, yes, the EU did not.

You need to look into Iran's history too, thats basically a product of British and Soviet influence and "rule", not US. Actually alot of the problems of the ME stem from what the UK did there after ww1.

you posted that people in the USA live longer, I prove that they don't live longer - SIMPLE - GOT IT?????

you are proving your intellectual level in all those thread. You don't know the difference between 2 african countries LOL.

glad to see you live in a country with child molesting priests

Sigh you speak of intelligence but then you attempt to cast off the notion of child molesting priests as the norm in America, furthermore you seek to push the point that such activities do not exist in Europe, which is a fallacy, you want to have your cake and eat it too, looks like you choked on it...

you better get the sh*t out of your eyes and look who started the thing
of course like a true patriot you stick up for your fellow american

You don't even know what patriotism is if you think it is standing up for your countrymen, so don't throw that crap out there, stop trying to confuse the issue, you didn't bring anything new to the discussion nor did you hit any of my previous contentions, you simply said take she "sh*t out of your eyes and look who started the thing" which I have a hard time discerning why that is relevant here?

/edit as for your open invitation to furnish you with another sig worthy quote: I don't stoop to ad hominem attacks, I strive to stay on issue, something which you obviously missed in your last retort.

OK - start reading the thread and then tell me why you attacked me first and not Alistair7 or that Guy-Idiot-Guy
do you have an explanation???

you can clearly see that Alistair wanted to prove that americans live longer then europeans. When I proved to him that that was not the case he started with "yeah, but you didn't include eastern-european countries. I just wanted to show him that "the americans live longer" is not a valid reason why healthcare is twice as expensive as in the EU because EU citizens live longer.

got it???

Ok first off you did not show that EU citizens live longer, you did show that citizens in several EU countries have a higher life expectancy than the united Sates, but Over all you did not show that EU has a higher life expectancy than the US. Secondarily you are now attempting to use this fallacious contention as primary justification for your contention that Americans do not get better health care. Your entire argument is based on a house of cards, you don't have much to go on here...

/edit I have not attacked anyone, I have attacked issues, and my first post in this thread was a retort to Guy, although which issues I choose to contend are not pertinent to this discussion and is a feeble attempt to throw a smoke screen out by making yourself a victim.

Yes EU citizens have a higher life expectancy then americans (search it yourself) and no I never said that americans get bad healthcare. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THAT

You don't have much to go here

goodbye

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
The more unhealthy food people eat...the richer the unhealthy food industry gets.
People did not decide to produce unhealthy food. People did not decide to advertise unhealthy food as healthy. People did not decide to produce unhealthy foods that have attractive tastes thanks to all kinds of tasty additives. People did not bribe politicians to vote laws to allow all kinds of unhealthy foods to be produced. People did not ask to be lied about the quality of unhealthy food. Children did not ask to be manipulated by the unhealthy food industry into bad eating habits.

Oh man, it's a good thing you're probably 17 and have never earned a day's wage in your life. If you represent the youth of France I weep for your once proud country's future.

People are responsible for their own individual choices. If you are literate, you have the power to research the foods you are about to consume. Not doing this and complaining about getting obese anyways is called being a lazy pathethic responsibility-evading moron.

The cigarette producers have become unhealthy food producers. They know how to manipulate people into ingesting products that kill them.
Advertising should be forced by law to contain only the picture of the product and the list of what it is made of, quantity and quality wise.
And selling unhealthy food should be prohibited. Giving it, yes. Making a profit out of it, no.
It is like the cigarette multinationals: they sould not be authorized to make a profit. All their profits should be taken by the government and spent on health care.
You just can not let the market and its big players get rich with all their crimes against humanity. Laws are needed in the interest of the citizens. Well, right now laws are dictated by the big players who get rich with their crimes against humanity, against nature,...

Making a profit is not a crime. It would be if it was up to people like you no doubt, but it will never come to that because of people like me. I am a non-smoker. People are quite aware of the effects of smoking by this point in time, so no smoker will ilicit sympathy from me for related health troubles. Deal with it, and deal with it on your own dime. Can't afford to pay off the investment you made against your life for the last 20 years of smoking up? TOO EFFING BAD.

As Amused said, making others work for another's benefit is nothing short of slavery and I, along with at least 50% of North Americans, will have no part of it. And the best damn thing about it is, we call the shots in this world.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
The more unhealthy food people eat...the richer the unhealthy food industry gets.
People did not decide to produce unhealthy food. People did not decide to advertise unhealthy food as healthy. People did not decide to produce unhealthy foods that have attractive tastes thanks to all kinds of tasty additives. People did not bribe politicians to vote laws to allow all kinds of unhealthy foods to be produced. People did not ask to be lied about the quality of unhealthy food. Children did not ask to be manipulated by the unhealthy food industry into bad eating habits.

Oh man, it's a good thing you're probably 17 and have never earned a day's wage in your life. If you represent the youth of France I weep for your once proud country's future.

People are responsible for their own individual choices. If you are literate, you have the power to research the foods you are about to consume. Not doing this and complaining about getting obese anyways is called being a lazy pathethic responsibility-evading moron.

The cigarette producers have become unhealthy food producers. They know how to manipulate people into ingesting products that kill them.
Advertising should be forced by law to contain only the picture of the product and the list of what it is made of, quantity and quality wise.
And selling unhealthy food should be prohibited. Giving it, yes. Making a profit out of it, no.
It is like the cigarette multinationals: they sould not be authorized to make a profit. All their profits should be taken by the government and spent on health care.
You just can not let the market and its big players get rich with all their crimes against humanity. Laws are needed in the interest of the citizens. Well, right now laws are dictated by the big players who get rich with their crimes against humanity, against nature,...

Making a profit is not a crime. It would be if it was up to people like you no doubt, but it will never come to that because of people like me. I am a non-smoker. People are quite aware of the effects of smoking by this point in time, so no smoker will ilicit sympathy from me for related health troubles. Deal with it, and deal with it on your own dime. Can't afford to pay off the investment you made against your life for the last 20 years of smoking up? TOO EFFING BAD.

As Amused said, making others work for another's benefit is nothing short of slavery and I, along with at least 50% of North Americans, will have no part of it. And the best damn thing about it is, we call the shots in this world.

Bling Bling, I agree with both points, yours and Amused's

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
I've been to Europe and the people over there are generally healthier. They do a lot more walking and exercise. They really don't eat at Mcdonalds or burger king or whatever fast food place. The one thing they do that is very unhealthy is smoke. I felt like an outsider because I don't smoke. They light cigarattes like their is no tomorrow.

Very bad generalization. Just went to Europe a month ago... saw McDonalds that were two stories tall, and always full all over the place.

But yes, fast food is not as rampant, but it still exists and is getting larger. And the smoking thing is more of an issue, as you said.

And to the guy who was saying that Americans develop important drugs and then charge a lot for them so many can't afford them... well what you MUST understand is that a lot of these companies invests millions in researching and developing these drugs, and so when they release a new drug they have to be able to make a return on their investment. Otherwise, companies will stop investing in researching life-saving drugs if their it isn't profitable for them.

Sorry to say, but the world doesn't spin because of everyone's good nature...

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
I am French.
I will live 3 years longer than a USian.
By spending far less than a USian on Health Care.
Shouldn't the US slaves of their capitalist masters feel stupid at one point?
Stop watching TV! Start a new revolution!
Your corporate masters are worse than your british masters were.

I hate to admit it Guy but you do have a point here.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: ITJunkie

Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
I am French.
I will live 3 years longer than a USian.
By spending far less than a USian on Health Care.
Shouldn't the US slaves of their capitalist masters feel stupid at one point?
Stop watching TV! Start a new revolution!
Your corporate masters are worse than your british masters were.

I hate to admit it Guy but you do have a point here.

He does? If so, what? That the higher life expectancy is a direct correlation to their expenditures on health care?

Or could it possibly be that they eat better and generally have a healthier lifestyle than your average american? Nah, can't be that...it's gotta be the superior socialist system

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

OK, so here's an EASY test that anyone can do AT HOME to determine if something is a "right" or not. Simply ask yourself the following question:

1) Does SOMEONE have to provide it for me?

If your answer is "NO", then it's a right. Thinks like your ability to speak or to move or to look for a legitimate way to earn your living.

If your answer is "YES", then it is NOT a right. You cannot have a right to something that must be provided by someone else (such as Healthcare, or air travel or ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Ultimate video cards...) because of this simple principle:

No man owns another, nor any part of another man's thought, effort or property.

It's really that simple. Either you believe in Slavery or your don't. Pick one.

Jason

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
...because we have some of the best laywers in the world.


Moreover, I would rather have the most expensive healthcare, but also the best, than to have the garbage my wife went through when we returned to Germany; her being German, she got to take advantage of the "free healthcare' at the local Krankenhaus. She had an eye infection and had to go to the hospital everyday for an IV and blood work...took 8 days for the blood work to come back...6 hours of waiting for a nurse to stick a needle in her arm...after 2 weeks of this, they were not sure how to treat her and restore her vision. To make a long story short(er), we arrived back in D.C., went to our regular doctor, a shot, a few pills later, and 3 days later, everything was 'good-to-go.' I would paid thousands to get that kind of treatment over there and still been able to enjoy our vacation.

In short, the sign over the Kranenhaus should read: "Free-You get what you pay for."

You are generalizing. One bad experience does not make the whole german system crap. I bet if I do a quick search on google I could find people who had bad experiences with the private health care system. Does that mean that the whole system is bad?

generalizing is going to get the thread down the drain real fast. No system is perfect ...

You don't have to do a Google search because am right here ! Ever have to deal with HealthNet ? These guys try'd their damn hardest to stick me with a $5,000 medical bill even though I was "completely covered" through their medical insurance policy.