Can Americans explain to me why ...

[freegeeks]

1)the US has the highest % of its GDP spend on healthcare and has 40 million americans without insurance

2)can someone explain to me how the health care system works in the USA. How do you get medical insurance???

note: this is not a thread intented to start a flamewar between socialized healthcare and private healthcare. If you want
to threadcrap take it somewhere else!!!!!!!

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
1)the US has the highest % of its GDP spend on healthcare and has 40 million americans without insurance

Because we spend a great deal on elective proceedures. Not only that, but doctors love "upselling" crap and snake oil.

2)can someone explain to me how the health care system works in the USA. How do you get medical insurance???

You buy it, or get it as a benefit package through your employer.

note: this is not a thread intented to start a flamewar between socialized healthcare and private healthcare. If you want
to threadcrap take it somewhere else!!!!!!!

That's cool.

In my opinion, healthcare MUST remain private. To make healthcare a "right" would make one set of people entitled to the fruit of other people's labor. In other words, it creates slavery.

 

[alchemize]

Don't forget we have the fattest populations on the planet. Hence one of the unhealthiest, driving up costs.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It does not create slavery. One may argue the merits of universal health coverage, but it is not that at all

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: freegeeks
1)the US has the highest % of its GDP spend on healthcare and has 40 million americans without insurance

Because we spend a great deal on elective proceedures. Not only that, but doctors love "upselling" crap and snake oil.

2)can someone explain to me how the health care system works in the USA. How do you get medical insurance???

You buy it, or get it as a benefit package through your employer.

note: this is not a thread intented to start a flamewar between socialized healthcare and private healthcare. If you want
to threadcrap take it somewhere else!!!!!!!

That's cool.

In my opinion, healthcare MUST remain private. To make healthcare a "right" would make one set of people entitled to the fruit of other people's labor. In other words, it creates slavery.

Because we spend a great deal on elective proceedures. Not only that, but doctors love "upselling" crap and snake oil.

Isn't the goal of private healthcare supposed to be more efficient (ecq cheaper). That is one of the things I don't understand about it. A lot of bureaucracy is something that you would associate with socialized healthcare (and to a certain extend is true) but you are saying that bureaucracy is one of the reasons why healthcare is so expensive in the US. Or am I wrong with that assumption

You buy it, or get it as a benefit package through your employer.

ok, so let's say I have no insurance and I need a liver transplant. Will I get one and if I get one who is going to pay for it?

To make healthcare a "right" would make one set of people entitled to the fruit of other people's labor. In other words, it creates slavery.[/quote]
ok but you don't chose to be sick

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub
The more unhealthy food people eat...the richer the unhealthy food industry gets.
People did not decide to produce unhealthy food. People did not decide to advertise unhealthy food as healthy. People did not decide to produce unhealthy foods that have attractive tastes thanks to all kinds of tasty additives. People did not bribe politicians to vote laws to allow all kinds of unhealthy foods to be produced. People did not ask to be lied about the quality of unhealthy food. Children did not ask to be manipulated by the unhealthy food industry into bad eating habits.
The cigarette producers have become unhealthy food producers. They know how to manipulate people into ingesting products that kill them.
Advertising should be forced by law to contain only the picture of the product and the list of what it is made of, quantity and quality wise.
And selling unhealthy food should be prohibited. Giving it, yes. Making a profit out of it, no.
It is like the cigarette multinationals: they sould not be authorized to make a profit. All their profits should be taken by the government and spent on health care.
You just can not let the market and its big players get rich with all their crimes against humanity. Laws are needed in the interest of the citizens. Well, right now laws are dictated by the big players who get rich with their crimes against humanity, against nature,...

wtf has this to do with my original question

 

[Zebo]

To make healthcare a "right" would make one set of people entitled to the fruit of other people's labor. In other words, it creates slavery.

Ready for rain man moment:

To make printing the very dollar bills with which people trade, public roads, rural electrification, satellite communications, police protection, criminal justice system, fire protection, paramedic protection, an educated workforce, an immunized workforce, protection against plagues by the CDC, public-funded business loans, foreclosure loans and subsidies, protection from business fraud and unfair business practices, the protection of intellectual property through patents and copyrights, student loans, government funded research and development, public libraries, National Weather Service and public job training a "right" would make one set of people entitled to the fruit of other people's labor. In other words, it creates slavery.

Welcome to a democratic government where the government though it's representatives tries to provide a healthy enviroment. Angloa and Myanmar does'nt have these silly taxes and redistribution of wealth. Easy immigration too, no papers needed.

 

[Zebo]

BTW- Freegeeks everyone is already covered in the USA by heathcare AFAIK. It's just redistributed though medicare, medicaid, hospital and clinic losses which are made up by charging more in premiums for those who have insurance. they just don't get mayo clinic care

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

...because we have some of the best laywers in the world.


Moreover, I would rather have the most expensive healthcare, but also the best, than to have the garbage my wife went through when we returned to Germany; her being German, she got to take advantage of the "free healthcare' at the local Krankenhaus. She had an eye infection and had to go to the hospital everyday for an IV and blood work...took 8 days for the blood work to come back...6 hours of waiting for a nurse to stick a needle in her arm...after 2 weeks of this, they were not sure how to treat her and restore her vision. To make a long story short(er), we arrived back in D.C., went to our regular doctor, a shot, a few pills later, and 3 days later, everything was 'good-to-go.' I would paid thousands to get that kind of treatment over there and still been able to enjoy our vacation.

In short, the sign over the Kranenhaus should read: "Free-You get what you pay for."

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Oh, and believe me, they DO pay for their inferior healthcare...was 23 1/2% VAT and $5.85 a gallon of gas when I was there last (2 years ago)...church taxes...etc...

 

[IGBT]

Don't forget all the boarder jumpers that show up pregnant and sick so the US tax payer can pay for their cookie.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
...because we have some of the best laywers in the world.


Moreover, I would rather have the most expensive healthcare, but also the best, than to have the garbage my wife went through when we returned to Germany; her being German, she got to take advantage of the "free healthcare' at the local Krankenhaus. She had an eye infection and had to go to the hospital everyday for an IV and blood work...took 8 days for the blood work to come back...6 hours of waiting for a nurse to stick a needle in her arm...after 2 weeks of this, they were not sure how to treat her and restore her vision. To make a long story short(er), we arrived back in D.C., went to our regular doctor, a shot, a few pills later, and 3 days later, everything was 'good-to-go.' I would paid thousands to get that kind of treatment over there and still been able to enjoy our vacation.

In short, the sign over the Kranenhaus should read: "Free-You get what you pay for."

You are generalizing. One bad experience does not make the whole german system crap. I bet if I do a quick search on google I could find people who had bad experiences with the private health care system. Does that mean that the whole system is bad?

generalizing is going to get the thread down the drain real fast. No system is perfect ...

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Oh, and believe me, they DO pay for their inferior healthcare...was 23 1/2% VAT and $5.85 a gallon of gas when I was there last (2 years ago)...church taxes...etc...

this is not a thread about taxes etc....

 

[Nitemare]

1 welfare

2 You either have great coverage or no coverage and you are ok, anything in between and you are fubared. With the health welfare/medicaid, it has made it impossible to go to an emergency room, because ghetto mom's bring their kid there for free coverage when they have runny noses.

 

[Moonbeam]

Somebody needs to drop Amused in the middle of the desert and let him live in freedom with the sand.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
1 welfare

2 You either have great coverage or no coverage and you are ok, anything in between and you are fubared. With the health welfare/medicaid, it has made it impossible to go to an emergency room, because ghetto mom's bring their kid there for free coverage when they have runny noses.

so if you have no coverage and you go to an ER you are going to get medical assistance for free????
why the hell would you pay then for insurance. Just go to the ER!!!!!!

 

[Dudd]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Nitemare
1 welfare

2 You either have great coverage or no coverage and you are ok, anything in between and you are fubared. With the health welfare/medicaid, it has made it impossible to go to an emergency room, because ghetto mom's bring their kid there for free coverage when they have runny noses.

so if you have no coverage and you go to an ER you are going to get medical assistance for free????
why the hell would you pay then for insurance. Just go to the ER!!!!!!

Why? Sure, they'll set a broken arm, no questions asked. Payment will be discussed later. Need heart surgery? They will need some sort of insurance or ability to pay before they will do that.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Dudd

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Nitemare
1 welfare

2 You either have great coverage or no coverage and you are ok, anything in between and you are fubared. With the health welfare/medicaid, it has made it impossible to go to an emergency room, because ghetto mom's bring their kid there for free coverage when they have runny noses.

so if you have no coverage and you go to an ER you are going to get medical assistance for free????
why the hell would you pay then for insurance. Just go to the ER!!!!!!

Why? Sure, they'll set a broken arm, no questions asked. Payment will be discussed later. Need heart surgery? They will need some sort of insurance or ability to pay before they will do that.

Still makes the ER practically useless for those that have insurance. Heart surgery is usually one of those things that you schedule. If someone has a heart attack they will be treated, but as for a bypass or transplant you are right, this is why some hospitals do charity work and why some law firms do pro bono cases, just to get a little good pr.

 

[Ferocious]

There is definately something wrong when a lot of working people or/and people who have worked all their lives....can not afford medical insurance.

I knew someone who worked hard all his life....could not afford medical insurance and therefore avoided doctor visits as much as possible....and then ended up with terminal prostate cancer unnecessarily.

It really bothers me that there are working Americans without healthcare.....while our government gives BILLIONS in food and medical aid to other countries.

Something needs to change....and it will eventually.....but corporations have a stranglehold on government right now.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Dudd

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Nitemare
1 welfare

2 You either have great coverage or no coverage and you are ok, anything in between and you are fubared. With the health welfare/medicaid, it has made it impossible to go to an emergency room, because ghetto mom's bring their kid there for free coverage when they have runny noses.

so if you have no coverage and you go to an ER you are going to get medical assistance for free????
why the hell would you pay then for insurance. Just go to the ER!!!!!!

Why? Sure, they'll set a broken arm, no questions asked. Payment will be discussed later. Need heart surgery? They will need some sort of insurance or ability to pay before they will do that.

that brings me back to one of my original questions

you have no insurance but you need a liver transplant. is there a reasonable chance that you will get a transplant or do you have less chance then somebody who has insurance. Do they put you at the bottom of the list.
How do they handle cases like that.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Dudd

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: Nitemare
1 welfare

2 You either have great coverage or no coverage and you are ok, anything in between and you are fubared. With the health welfare/medicaid, it has made it impossible to go to an emergency room, because ghetto mom's bring their kid there for free coverage when they have runny noses.

so if you have no coverage and you go to an ER you are going to get medical assistance for free????
why the hell would you pay then for insurance. Just go to the ER!!!!!!

Why? Sure, they'll set a broken arm, no questions asked. Payment will be discussed later. Need heart surgery? They will need some sort of insurance or ability to pay before they will do that.

that brings me back to one of my original questions

you have no insurance but you need a liver transplant. is there a reasonable chance that you will get a transplant or do you have less chance then somebody who has insurance. Do they put you at the bottom of the list.
How do they handle cases like that.

Supposedly you get put on the organ donor list and you will eventually die waiting or get a transplant. Allegedly it is a first come first serve by tissue typing. You couls always set up an organization like the Jessica Santee girl did for her transplant as well, chances are you are going to have a while to come up with the money.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
1)the US has the highest % of its GDP spend on healthcare and has 40 million americans without insurance

2)can someone explain to me how the health care system works in the USA. How do you get medical insurance???

note: this is not a thread intented to start a flamewar between socialized healthcare and private healthcare. If you want
to threadcrap take it somewhere else!!!!!!!

1. I question the validity of the numbers provided. That number could be derived from anything and could include all the bio research we do. Considering the US does 60-80% of all the biotech research that could add a significant portion to our "healthcare spending". One of the differences against a socialized system though is that there will be more choice and as a result some facilities will not run at full capacity thereby increasing overhead costs and decreasing efficiency.

2. You purchase medical insurance individualy or through a group plan provided by your employer. In my area you can purchase an HMO type plan from IHC for about $120 a month for an individual.

I believe you will find most americans don't like the idea of socialized medicine. American's hait waiting and under a socialized system you reduce the number of facilities to maximize productivity and that induces waiting times for prodecures. Just as an example I heard, there are more MRI machines in the city of Chicago then there are in the whole country of Canada. The advantage of the private system is selection and quality. You can choose, depening on how much you wish to pay, to go to better doctors and hospitals.

You asked why everyone doesn't just go to the emergency room and not pay for insurance. Because you have to pay the bill (they will turn you over to collection and destroy your credit) and they charge more for people that aren't insured.

 

[XZeroII]

I think this was mentioned earlier, but anyway...
The % of GDP includes medical research, private insurances, doctor costs, etc... The US does more medical research than probably the rest of the world combined (I'm guessing).

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub

Originally posted by: Ferocious
There is definately something wrong when a lot of working people or/and people who have worked all their lives....can not afford medical insurance.

I knew someone who worked hard all his life....could not afford medical insurance and therefore avoided doctor visits as much as possible....and then ended up with terminal prostate cancer unnecessarily.

It really bothers me that there are working Americans without healthcare.....while our government gives BILLIONS in food and medical aid to other countries.

Something needs to change....and it will eventually.....but corporations have a stranglehold on government right now.

On US corporate TV they do not tell you this truth that everyone on Earth knows: your country does not aid the World. Your country rampages the World. Your country steals the World. Your country pollutes the World. Your country imposes copyrights on vital medicines. Your country has killed millions of people. Your country is a criminal country. Because US corporations, the Pentagon, the CIA, are criminal racketeering organizations.

If I give you 1 dollar from the left hand but steal 1000 dollars from you with the right hand, and I then tell you that I give you too much in aid, how will you react?

How much do you pay in taxes every year, Guy? income sales VAT...et al?

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: GuyDebordJudoClub

Originally posted by: Ferocious
There is definately something wrong when a lot of working people or/and people who have worked all their lives....can not afford medical insurance.

I knew someone who worked hard all his life....could not afford medical insurance and therefore avoided doctor visits as much as possible....and then ended up with terminal prostate cancer unnecessarily.

It really bothers me that there are working Americans without healthcare.....while our government gives BILLIONS in food and medical aid to other countries.

Something needs to change....and it will eventually.....but corporations have a stranglehold on government right now.

On US corporate TV they do not tell you this truth that everyone on Earth knows: your country does not aid the World. Your country rampages the World. Your country steals the World. Your country pollutes the World. Your country imposes copyrights on vital medicines. Your country has killed millions of people. Your country is a criminal country. Because US corporations, the Pentagon, the CIA, are criminal racketeering organizations.

If I give you 1 dollar from the left hand but steal 1000 dollars from you with the right hand, and I then tell you that I give you too much in aid, how will you react?

stay on topic or leave

like I said no threadcrapping - no USA against Europe flaming


edit: you are more then welcome to explain the French system, its qualities, etc .... but there is no need to turn this into a flamefest