Can a conservative explain to me why i should be paying for Texas' disaster relief when ...

[Starbuck1975]

Am I missing something here? Did Harvey hit southeast Texas? Or only the few square mile of Houston metro area? Who cares if Houston is blue or red? The majority of relief funding will be given to the surrounding rural area. You can bet the the poor will be short changed.

What you are missing is that the demographics or political leanings of the impacted area should be irrelevent to any conversation on relief. The mental gymnastics some are going through to rationalize it is really quite pathetic.

Houston is an increasingly diverse city and the key to Democrats flipping Texas blue. A bunch of Californians mimicking Ted Cruz doesn't really help.

 

[JSt0rm]

What you are missing is that the demographics or political leanings of the impacted area should be irrelevent to any conversation on relief. The mental gymnastics some are going through to rationalize it is really quite pathetic.

Houston is an increasingly diverse city and the key to Democrats flipping Texas blue. A bunch of Californians mimicking Ted Cruz doesn't really help.

nobody has said anything about not helping.

 

[Starbuck1975]

nobody has said anything about not helping.

So when the OP stated f*ck Texas and let the free market figure it out, that sounds an awful lot like not helping, or not wanting to help.

 

[OWR88]

Texas turning blue? LOL whoever said that has lost all man cards, if he had any to begin with.

 

[Jhhnn]

If you note I said the city is liberal but the surrounding areas (suburbs) are red.

And anecdotally most of my friends are liberal.

Not to mention that the population of Harris county dwarfs that of the surrounding counties. Urban Texas is blue & growing while rural Texas is red & dying. That's why Texas Repubs had to resort to extreme gerrymandering.

Here's how the population density works out-

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Texas_population_map.png

 

[Paratus]

thats why god flooded it.

User name checks out.

 

[ivwshane]

nobody has said anything about not helping.

They continue to not understand what the conversation is about. They wish to keep this topic purely about morals by completely ignoring the political side of it. What they are doing is ignoring reality.

But it's easy to attack people who you think are morally corrupt or are bad people so that's what they make the conversation about instead. For them there is no place for politics when it comes to national tragedies, unfortunately for them, reality says otherwise. Its why we go to war against a country that didn't attack us and why people who speak out against that are called unpatriotic. Their supposed moral superiority can't see the forest through the trees.

 

[Jhhnn]

They continue to not understand what the conversation is about. They wish to keep this topic purely about morals by completely ignoring the political side of it. What they are doing is ignoring reality.

But it's easy to attack people who you think are morally corrupt or are bad people so that's what they make the conversation about instead. For them there is no place for politics when it comes to national tragedies, unfortunately for them, reality says otherwise. Its why we go to war against a country that didn't attack us and why people who speak out against that are called unpatriotic. Their supposed moral superiority can't see the forest through the trees.

Right wing propagandists have been spreading hate & discontent for decades. Now we have boneheads who think that more of the same from a different direction is somehow good for America. It's not.

Despite our differences, we are one nation & one people. This is a good time to remember that & avoid divisive recriminations about the past. Racist deplorables in Texas? I vote for killing them with kindness. It really messes with their minds, in a good way.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

thats why god flooded it.

Maybe you can send a few pairs of your $300 boots and a couple of your $200 shirts to help people less fortunate than you are?
lol ..........Who am I kidding, you're a fucking douchebag that has never helped anyone else in your pudgy little liberal life.

 

[OWR88]

Really? Are we really one nation and one people? Reeeeeally?

Trust me, I am with you, but I fear that you will lose, forever and always. Trump is the living proof.

Don't underestimate the power of the hardcore right wing extreme groups. They are more united than you think.

 

[JSt0rm]

Maybe you can send a few pairs of your $300 boots and a couple of your $200 shirts to help people less fortunate than you are?
lol ..........Who am I kidding, you're a fucking douchebag that has never helped anyone else in your pudgy little liberal life.

I do help people less fortunate then me by buying those things. They are made in america

 

[Starbuck1975]

They continue to not understand what the conversation is about. They wish to keep this topic purely about morals by completely ignoring the political side of it. What they are doing is ignoring reality.

But it's easy to attack people who you think are morally corrupt or are bad people so that's what they make the conversation about instead. For them there is no place for politics when it comes to national tragedies, unfortunately for them, reality says otherwise. Its why we go to war against a country that didn't attack us and why people who speak out against that are called unpatriotic. Their supposed moral superiority can't see the forest through the trees.

I am honestly curious. What is the distinction between the political side and the morality?

 

[Jhhnn]

Really? Are we really one nation and one people? Reeeeeally?

Trust me, I am with you, but I fear that you will lose, forever and always. Trump is the living proof.

Don't underestimate the power of the hardcore right wing extreme groups. They are more united than you think.

I don't underestimate them at all. They seek hatred & try to convince White Americans that they're threatened & being hated. Your flavor of that just convinces them that it's true. Your persona seems tailor made to accomplish just that.

I'm buying none of it & refuse to play the role that both you & they want libs to play. Marching under the banners of white supremacy is one thing & just living in the flooded areas is quite another. I very much want to demonstrate to everybody that govt can be a good thing. This is an opportunity to do just that.

 

[Jhhnn]

I am honestly curious. What is the distinction between the political side and the morality?

I think he's talking about the vengeful faux morality of the extremes. They'd have us all just screaming fuck you at each other.

 

[zinfamous]

Remember that fskimospy self admittedly only checked 2 of the named instances of the published links i posted. 2!

"
The bill itself is here. Its summary is here. Cruz’s statement at the time on the Sandy bill is here. And the Roll Call vote is here. Here is a Heritage report about the bill at the time. Here is fiscal hawk Tom Coburn on the problems with emergency disaster bills. And here are some things you will find if you read all of these, including specific spending in the Sandy relief bill that has nothing to do with emergency needs or any relation to disaster relief:

16,000,000,000 dollars for Community Development Block Grants (11 billion higher than HUD was requesting at the time)
600,000,000 for State and Tribal Assistance Grants under the EPA
348,000,000 for “construction” for the National Park Service
100,000,000 for Head Start
50,000,000 for the Historic Preservation Fund at the NPS
45,000,000 for upgrades to NOAA aircraft
22,000,000 for upgrading NOAA weather equipment
50,000,000 for “construction” for Fish and Wildlife Services
24,000,000 for the Defense Working Capital Fund
10,000,000 to Small Business Administration to plus up grants to organizations seeking to participate in disaster relief
4,400,000 for “capital improvement” to the Forestry Service
3,000,000 for oil spill research
2,000,000 for the Smithsonian’s famously leaky roofs.
1,000,000 for new cars for the DEA.
1,000,000 to the Legal Services Corporation.




http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/31/sandy-relief-bill-chock-full-pork/

VG took you to the woodshed, and you still continue.

You know what they say about insanity?

Fuck you, dipshit. (lol, that's what I say. not what they say...but it's all relevant)

 

[ivwshane]

I am honestly curious. What is the distinction between the political side and the morality?

Really? The answer is motivation. They used to be closely linked, doing good used to be the smart thing to do politically. Now, not so much. For example, it used to be a politically positive thing to see a local politician working directly with the president after a natural disaster, then Obama came and suddenly you were a traitor to the cause for hugging him. Voting for natural disaster relief used to be the most politically safe thing you could do, now, if you vote for it you are apart of big government and waste. Another example would be raising the debt ceiling, it used to be a simple procedural thing with the party not in power complaining about government spending but mustering enough votes to get it passed, then it became more than that and now when it comes up there are real possibilities that it won't be raised and we will go into default.

Now you would think that these politicians would face consequences for their actions but obviously that's not happening and the opposite is actually true, they are being rewarded.

So now we have a very real problem of trying to do the right thing with a group of politicians (who hold the majority in government at all levels) who are against such actions because... Liberal tears. Now you and others can pretend to ignore such a threat and chastise others from your high horse of morality but in the real world your non actions will only mean things get worse for others.

 

[zinfamous]

My argument is that spending for disaster relief should be exactly what it says.......... spending for disaster relief. There's a reason that the Counties surrounding the nations capital are some of the wealthiest counties in the Country. They're all bellying up to the the huge Washington trough, in the nastiest, most corrupt and deepest swamp looking to get what they can at the citizens expense.

You hate the swamp, so you voted for the creature from the Black Lagoon to make that swamp even swampier.

fuck you, idiot. Seriously: fuck you to fucking hell for being a stupid fucking idiot that is sucked in by buzz words in lieu of rational, informed thought. You're a diseased, useless human because you voted for the Swamp King and continue to eat his fermenting, rotting, detritus while telling yourself it is all gold "liberal tears." You know it, everyone knows it--you're a fucking useless human.

 

[OWR88]

The hardcore right wing got you by the balls, but you just asked them to squeeze the testicles out the sack. Why?

"The right thing to do" is sometimes the less obvious. Maybe Texans ought to start thinking about paying more taxes and be fiscally responsible with that tax revenue, instead of paying Osteen. Hey, at least Osteen knew what he was doing.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Really? The answer is motivation. They used to be closely linked, doing good used to be the smart thing to do politically. Now, not so much. For example, it used to be a politically positive thing to see a local politician working directly with the president after a natural disaster, then Obama came and suddenly you were a traitor to the cause for hugging him. Voting for natural disaster relief used to be the most politically safe thing you could do, now, if you vote for it you are apart of big government and waste. Another example would be raising the debt ceiling, it used to be a simple procedural thing with the party not in power complaining about government spending but mustering enough votes to get it passed, then it became more than that and now when it comes up there are real possibilities that it won't be raised and we will go into default.

Now you would think that these politicians would face consequences for their actions but obviously that's not happening and the opposite is actually true, they are being rewarded.

So now we have a very real problem of trying to do the right thing with a group of politicians (who hold the majority in government at all levels) who are against such actions because... Liberal tears. Now you and others can pretend to ignore such a threat and chastise others from your high horse of morality but in the real world your non actions will only mean things get worse for others.

"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm."

The issues you raise, while legitimate, have little to do with the tit for tat childishness permeating this thread. There is a tremendous amount of political animosity between Texas and California, so it doesn't surprise me that the irrational tone of hatred is what one would expect between sports rivals.

As for politically rewarding certain behaviors, its all a matter of perspective. Building consensus and coalitions is hard work. The purity tests within each political party and hyper partisanship between them don't help. We are long overdue for a political realignment.

I hear some people gloating over liberal tears. I also hear a lot of stigginit directed at red states. Lots of abuse of the term snowflake and people talking past each other. It takes two to tango. It's not so much claiming the moral high ground as lamenting the tendency of some to sink to the lowest common denominator.

There seems to be a lot of procedural maneuvering and shenanigans over even the most mundane of government functions. I think there is enough blame to pass around for that.

It stops when we elect a leader who is able to unite the country. Trump obviously isn't that leader.

 

[OWR88]

I don't underestimate them at all. They seek hatred & try to convince White Americans that they're threatened & being hated. Your flavor of that just convinces them that it's true. Your persona seems tailor made to accomplish just that.

I'm buying none of it & refuse to play the role that both you & they want libs to play. Marching under the banners of white supremacy is one thing & just living in the flooded areas is quite another. I very much want to demonstrate to everybody that govt can be a good thing. This is an opportunity to do just that.

Doesn't matter if Trump gives Southeast Texas 765 billion, you won't change their mind. That's wishful thinking. You are only feeding the troll.

Whatever good you do today will be washed away by Limbaugh tomorrow morning, and then squashed by Alex Jones the next day, and then normalized by Fox&Friends shortly after that. The only way these people wake up, is when reality sinks in. We are all living in a bubble that is the US of A. The greatest and most powerful nation on the Earth, but some of us are playing with fire in favor of extreme ideas.

 

[ivwshane]

"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm."

The issues you raise, while legitimate, have little to do with the tit for tat childishness permeating this thread. There is a tremendous amount of political animosity between Texas and California, so it doesn't surprise me that the irrational tone of hatred is what one would expect between sports rivals.

As for politically rewarding certain behaviors, its all a matter of perspective. Building consensus and coalitions is hard work. The purity tests within each political party and hyper partisanship between them don't help. We are long overdue for a political realignment.

I hear some people gloating over liberal tears. I also hear a lot of stigginit directed at red states. Lots of abuse of the term snowflake and people talking past each other. It takes two to tango. It's not so much claiming the moral high ground as lamenting the tendency of some to sink to the lowest common denominator.

There seems to be a lot of procedural maneuvering and shenanigans over even the most mundane of government functions. I think there is enough blame to pass around for that.

It stops when we elect a leader who is able to unite the country. Trump obviously isn't that leader.

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the "both sides" argument. There maybe some that are taking out their frustration on Texas or red states in general but its not because they hate red states or want harm to come to them its because they are tired of trying to help people who don't want to help themselves. When you excuse the behavior of one side by pointing to the other (like trump did with his both sides argument) you muddy the waters and essentially give the right a free pass. We don't need any more mud in the water because soon enough there will be blood in it and you won't even notice.

 

[UglyCasanova]

We don't need any more mud in the water because soon enough there will be blood in it and you won't even notice.

Well that sounds a tad melodramatic..

 

[Starbuck1975]

Sorry, I don't subscribe to the "both sides" argument. There maybe some that are taking out their frustration on Texas or red states in general but its not because they hate red states or want harm to come to them its because they are tired of trying to help people who don't want to help themselves. When you excuse the behavior of one side by pointing to the other (like trump did with his both sides argument) you muddy the waters and essentially give the right a free pass. We don't need any more mud in the water because soon enough there will be blood in it and you won't even notice.

I subscribe to the both sides argument only to the extent that there are parts of the country where having a "D" next to your name is at all it takes, and where having an "R" is all it takes. We've segregated into ideological echo chambers, with the future of the country hanging in the balance of a few swing states. Similarly, I see a complete lack of accountability internal to any of the echo chambers, and I can say that because I've lived or done business in just about all of them.

Trump was the natural manifestation of #bothsides. Will there be blood? If history is any guide, the answer is probably yes.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Texans dont go for pork. The relief for Harvey will be nearly pork free.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Texans dont go for pork. The relief for Harvey will be nearly pork free.

I wonder if they'll start robo calling people about scary immigrants with guns that will shoot them in the face if they allow them to perform repairs?