Camera Question.

[shilala]

I currently have a DSC-F707.
I bought it a few years ago before I learned to hate Sony.
I skipped the DSC-F717 because it wasn't worth the upgrade.
Along came the DSC-F828 and I loved it, but still thought I'd wait for the next model because the reviews showed there were a number of glitches (of course).
The problem is this...
I am absolutely hooked on the swiveling body. So hooked, in fact, that I'm willing to buy another Sony just so I won't have to live with another fixed body camera, even though I hate Sony more than George Bush, taxes, and lack of nookie.
It appears Sony has abandoned the swiveling body opting to build the DSC-R1.
It's just another reason to hate them, it really doesn't surprise me.
My question is three part...
Does anyone else employ the swiveling body in any of their models?
Should I bite the bullet and pick up an 828 at fleabay? (I can probably upgrade for a couple hundred bucks after hawking my current camera.)
Are there any other options I'm missing short of killing myself?

Cliffs:
1.) Sony sucks.
2.) I need to upgrade my camera.
3.) ???
4.) Profit!!!

 

[Ornery]

I'm keeping my 707 till it pukes. Maybe I'll replace it then with an 828, or just a 717. I don't push it to its limits as it is, do you?

 

[xanis]

Well I could make you some suggestions if you were a little more specific on what you're looking for in a camera../

 

[NutBucket]

R1? Get a digital rebel for that price.

 

[Ornery]

1. Anybody bother reading the OP? Do you NOT understand what a swivel body is?

 

[Mrvile]

Pff...camcorder-shaped digicams make me laugh.

Get a DSLR and get it over with

Make sure you put aside about two grand for lenses

 

[IronWing]

Nikon S4, return of the Coolpix swivel. Different price point, lower res but it does swivel and the focusing mechanism is self contained so it can be mounted to a scope.

 

[Kelvrick]

Do you like the swivel so much because of the feel, or the versatility of it. You can grab something similar in the FZ30/20, Nikon5900 (i think, or some number, maybe 9100) with the twisty lcd to get kind of the same thing as the swivel, but not the feel.

On the topic of this though, the R1 is the first one using a large (APS size) sensor that offers full time live preview to the camera's LCD monitor or EVF while in an all-in-one body. So, its different then a dslr.

EDIT: said lens instead of sensor.

 

[GeekDrew]

I used to have a DSC-F828... it's not a perfect camera, but I definitely miss it. I'll probably buy another one whenever I have the money. If not that... probably a Digital Rebel.

 

[hytek369]

i still have the F717 and love it
but i hate memory sticks

 

[imported_Mike]

I would read reviews on the 828 before you take the plunge. I believe the 717 was the last great swivel made by sony. Nikon does have a swivel with their S4 but its quite lacking in comparison to the 717 or even the 707.

I personally was impressed with the R1, but at a $1k price point its hard to not notice the DSRLs.

I have a Sony S85 and V1 with a boat load of memory sticks. For awhile I was going to get a F717 and trade in the previous 2. I don't think you should upgrade to the 828 IMO.

 

[spacejamz]

Hey OP, I was in the exact same boat you are (except I wanted a 'real' view finder - not just to use an LCD - R1 doesn't have a 'real' view finder)...

I just received my 828 in mail today, so I will play around with it for the next couple of days...

cool that all of my batteries and HV1000 flash will work with the new toy...picked up a 1GB memory stick pro for $49 last week after rebate...

the main reason I upgraded was for the shutter lag (not sure if that is the correct term). Took over a second from the time you pressed the shutter button till the image was
captured on my 707...much faster w/ the 828...

already have a buyer for my 707!!!

good luck...

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Ornery
I'm keeping my 707 till it pukes. Maybe I'll replace it then with an 828, or just a 717. I don't push it to its limits as it is, do you?

Man, Ornery, I take a shytload of pics.
They're nice, but I'd like a little more versatility.
The colors from the 707 are kind of blah and I have to photoshop everything before I print.
I get nice prints, but I'd like a little more "snap" to my pics.
The 828 sensor sees 4 colors instead of the standard three. It's supposed to add a lot more "zing".

So far as using all the features, I'm pretty camera-tarded.
I'm still learning, and I rely heavily on the camera's tard settings.
That's the cool thing about it; good pics, low learning curve.

That 828 is so sexy it torments me.
I bet I can land NIB for under 600 bucks, too.
That makes it hard not to do.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
Do you like the swivel so much because of the feel, or the versatility of it. You can grab something similar in the FZ30/20, Nikon5900 (i think, or some number, maybe 9100) with the twisty lcd to get kind of the same thing as the swivel, but not the feel.

On the topic of this though, the R1 is the first one using a large (APS size) sensor that offers full time live preview to the camera's LCD monitor or EVF while in an all-in-one body. So, its different then a dslr.

EDIT: said lens instead of sensor.

Yes, It's the feel and versatility I love.
I can hold the camera at any level and see the screen.
I can twist the body, look straight up and shoot over a crowd.
Do that with a dslr.
It's so easy to take pics from different perspectives.
I never have to take a knee, I just swivel and look straight down.

I don't think I could do without that, although as I said, I hate Sony with a passion and hate like hell to support them by buying another camera from them.

I'm going to look at the cameras Kelvrick and Ironwing mentioned.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: spacejamz

Hey OP, I was in the exact same boat you are (except I wanted a 'real' view finder - not just to use an LCD - R1 doesn't have a 'real' view finder)...

I just received my 828 in mail today, so I will play around with it for the next couple of days...

cool that all of my batteries and HV1000 flash will work with the new toy...picked up a 1GB memory stick pro for $49 last week after rebate...

the main reason I upgraded was for the shutter lag (not sure if that is the correct term). Took over a second from the time you pressed the shutter button till the image was
captured on my 707...much faster w/ the 828...

already have a buyer for my 707!!!

good luck...

I considered that as well.
I'd be able to use my backpack full of accessories with the 828, including the raft of memory sticks, chrgers, extra batteries, damn near everything.
I haven't checked if I can still use my filters though.

My thought was to get the 828, see what I can continue using, then sell the stuff I have left.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
Do you like the swivel so much because of the feel, or the versatility of it. You can grab something similar in the FZ30/20, Nikon5900 (i think, or some number, maybe 9100) with the twisty lcd to get kind of the same thing as the swivel, but not the feel.

On the topic of this though, the R1 is the first one using a large (APS size) sensor that offers full time live preview to the camera's LCD monitor or EVF while in an all-in-one body. So, its different then a dslr.

EDIT: said lens instead of sensor.

Yes, It's the feel and versatility I love.
I can hold the camera at any level and see the screen.
I can twist the body, look straight up and shoot over a crowd.
Do that with a dslr.
It's so easy to take pics from different perspectives.
I never have to take a knee, I just swivel and look straight down.

I don't think I could do without that, although as I said, I hate Sony with a passion and hate like hell to support them by buying another camera from them.

I'm going to look at the cameras Kelvrick and Ironwing mentioned.

On that other camera, I was referring to the Fuji S9000. Nikon has the 8700/8800 as other "prosumer" cameras. Not dslr's, but they have functions and an attached lens.

 

[Ornery]

Took over a second from the time you pressed the shutter button till the image was captured on my 707...

Your idea of "one second" and mine must be two different things! 707 Shutter Release LAG = 0.1 second and Auto Focus LAG = 1.1 - 1.6 The 828 has Half-press Lag of 0.6 - 1.2 at telephoto. I always "prefocus" by using a half press of the shutter button. That just leaves a .1 second lag when I do full press it. It's the only way I've ever taken pictures with it!

If anything, the 707 has too much "snap". A big problem is that the red is too vivid. You'll see much more lifelike color in the 717 and probably the 828, which it doesn't sound like you want. You'll be post processing everything to get more saturated color.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Took over a second from the time you pressed the shutter button till the image was captured on my 707...

Your idea of "one second" and mine must be two different things! 707 Shutter Release LAG = 0.1 second and Auto Focus LAG = 1.1 - 1.6 The 828 has Half-press Lag of 0.6 - 1.2 at telephoto. I always "prefocus" by using a half press of the shutter button. That just leaves a .1 second lag when I do full press it. It's the only way I've ever taken pictures with it!

If anything, the 707 has too much "snap". A big problem is that the red is too vivid. You'll see much more lifelike color in the 717 and probably the 828, which it doesn't sound like you want. You'll be post processing everything to get more saturated color.

There's a dp review on the 828 that covers the colors.
It really is supposed to be a marked improvement over the 707.
I post process everything. I've never even printed a uncleaned image.
It's because it had to be. Colors were just too washed out and the lighting levels weren't true.
Levels-brighness-contrast is all it would take.

 

[Ornery]

I think you're setting yourself up for a big let down. I generally DON'T post process anything. 17,600 images so far...

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: Ornery

1. Anybody bother reading the OP? Do you NOT understand what a swivel body is?

How is the R1 a swivel body? Looks like it just has a swivel LCD.

BTW, my buddy that sells digicams at circuit city (nevermind the jokes) says that the F828 was returned in droves.

For the record he shoots a D70.

 

[Ornery]

Honestly, just take the time to read the OP. I know it's a little long, but it's worth it to actually get the gist of the topic:

• I am absolutely hooked on the swiveling body...
  
  ...It appears Sony has abandoned the swiveling body opting to build the DSC-R1.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Ornery
I think you're setting yourself up for a big let down. I generally DON'T post process anything. 17,600 images so far...

I think you may be right. I still didn't get time to look at those other cameras mentioned.
If I can get educated on some other models I'll go have a look at them and see what's up.

Your pics have the same look that mine do.
That bike looks like it was shot on an overcast day. The reflections on the speedometer don't suggest that.
I use autolevels in photoshop to clean that up and sharpen things a bit.
I like very vibrant pics, especially when I take them to print.
Blues and greens aren't particularly sharp and changing the light makes a world of difference.
I suppose it boils down to taste.
I'm at 19,980 right now and I've edited every pic I ever printed or took to the web.

 

[Ornery]

Check your monitor. I just put the original for DSC07092.jpg in PhotoShop and hit Auto Levels. It darkened it! Those shots look exactly like it did that day. I came home, selected 16 of the 18 shots and did an Automated Web Photo Gallery without retouching or cropping anything.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Check your monitor. I just put the original for DSC07092.jpg in PhotoShop and hit Auto Levels. It darkened it! Those shots look exactly like it did that day. I came home, selected 16 of the 18 shots and did an Automated Web Photo Gallery without retouching or cropping anything.

Mine is on the left, yours is on the right.
I work on two lcd's. I don't have printer/monitor calibration stuff, I've looked at Spyder but never spent the money yet.
I always have to process a bit "darker" in order for my prints to get the "feel" I like.
You can see it in the blacks on the example I just posted.
That's autolevels, brightness -11, contrast +11 (or something thereabouts).
Autolevels alone will make that exposure look darker, bright and contrast adjustment finishes it up.
***Edit***
Look at the color difference in the brick behind the seat, the dumpster, and the loss of haze over the fairing.
Check the red "R" on the coweling. The minor edit makes those colors come out.
That's the "snap" I was talking about that the 707 misses.
My hope was that the 828 would help that through the extra color on the sensor.

 

[Ornery]

Yep, that's what auto levels wanted to do for me as well. But, I thought you wanted it brighter, which is why I thought your monitor may be off.

I think you'll be post processing all the 828 images as well. Like I said, if this camera dies, I WILL get the 717 or 828 for sure. Pretty much for the same reason as you. I shoot 75% of my images from waist level.