Calling all christians...

[madthumbs]

>>Whackjobs arguing over who are the real Christians.<<

-Is there any real argument? Do you really think any organized religion is able to accurately represent God on this earth? You either follow a church which is fallable, or you follow the Word.

>>Jesus said he had come to fullfill the old laws not to change them. He himself did not break the old traditions, so anyone not following the old laws is going against what he preached. Saying that he changed them by coming is only a way to find peace in breaking his teachings.<<

-Not sure.. is this supposed to contradict something I've said? Doesn't He imply that He came to fulfill the law?

>>Jesus says he had only come for the people of Israel, and calls other people dogs.<<

-Is this derived from the same part of the Bible where a woman also implies that even the dogs get scraps from their master's tables?

>>Ah, you mean Behemoth? Which is most likely simply Bahamut, borrowed from Babylonian mythology? Just like Christmas day was borrowed from the Pagan light feast?

Job 40 also says about Behemoth that it hid behind reeds and lotus, which might be a bit hard for a Tirannosaur Rex, but would be pretty easy for, for example, a crocodile (which also happens to be used as translation for Behemoth in the copy I have here).<<

-Behemoth is one, Leviathon another. You could say that Leviathon is borrowed from ancient chinese mythology, but the behemoth described physically in the Bible could not possibly be a crocodile.

>>he was testing the woman's faith... obviously...<<

-What about her humility? What about all of us?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: sandigga

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1
Obviously... He told his disciples that he had come for the people of Israel on several more occasions, guess their faith was even more doubtful.

I thought we were talking about him calling them dogs?? why are you changing the focus of the discussion around?
anyways this is a useless argument because regardless of what he says Jesus still granted the woman's request and healed her daughter... action is greater than words.. im sure we can agree with that...

You explain his remark about other people being dogs the way you want to, namely that it is just to test her faith. My question is whether he was constantly testing his disciples' faith when he made the remarks about just having come for the people of Israel. Cause if not, it would mean that he might not have been testing her faith either. And if so, did he mistrust them so badly?

You can explain everything any way you want, that's the problem with a book that cannot be checked anymore. You can also see the Bible as a freecard to kill non-believers, as God had more success when being nasty and murderous than when sending a peaceful messenger. After all, Jesus got killed, shouldn't that teach us that showing weakness is bad? It's all in the eye of the beholder, explain everything the way you feel comfortable with.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: madthumbs
>>Whackjobs arguing over who are the real Christians.<<

-Is there any real argument? Do you really think any organized religion is able to accurately represent God on this earth? You either follow a church which is fallable, or you follow the Word.

And how do you know your interpretation of it is the true one? Are you more infallible than all those millions of other people? How do you know the book you see as the Word of God is actually that, instead of one of the other books?

>>Jesus said he had come to fullfill the old laws not to change them. He himself did not break the old traditions, so anyone not following the old laws is going against what he preached. Saying that he changed them by coming is only a way to find peace in breaking his teachings.<<

-Not sure.. is this supposed to contradict something I've said? Doesn't He imply that He came to fulfill the law?

Have you been circumsized? A lot of Christians/Catholics haven't, which means they do not follow the old laws. Do you follow all the other old laws, unless Jesus spoke up against them? Do you dare to make that claim?

>>Ah, you mean Behemoth? Which is most likely simply Bahamut, borrowed from Babylonian mythology? Just like Christmas day was borrowed from the Pagan light feast?

Job 40 also says about Behemoth that it hid behind reeds and lotus, which might be a bit hard for a Tirannosaur Rex, but would be pretty easy for, for example, a crocodile (which also happens to be used as translation for Behemoth in the copy I have here).<<

-Behemoth is one, Leviathon another. You could say that Leviathon is borrowed from ancient chinese mythology, but the behemoth described physically in the Bible could not possibly be a crocodile.

Read the first of the 2 links I posted. There is an explanation of Leviathan there as well.

>>Jesus says he had only come for the people of Israel, and calls other people dogs.<<

-Is this derived from the same part of the Bible where a woman also implies that even the dogs get scraps from their master's tables?

>>he was testing the woman's faith... obviously...<<

-What about her humility? What about all of us?

It's all what you want it to read, and so much more. No one can check the truth, and that what makes it such a good story.

Jesus also once cursed a tree never to bear fruit again just cause the fruit he tasted from it wasn't like he wanted it to be. That doesn't sound like he knew what humility was himself. Or sanity for that matter, for whom would curse a tree for the simple reason that the fruits aren't ripe yet the moment you pass it?
Unless you believe that Jesus actually did that, you cannot possibly take everything in the Bible seriously, and therefor you have to doubt the rest too. For why would everything slightly more sane be true, when a lot obviously isn't?

 

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by: 308nato
I believe in God because if I believed for 1 minute that the highest reasoning being in the universe was a human I would have to put a bullet into my brain.

You could always pray to ET

Hahahah!

 

[dfi]

Is it just me, or am I seeing something very... strange going on here?

What if I found on a piece of paper the following things:

1) This is the word of god.
2) This piece of paper contains no lies.
3) Trees can talk.

person 1: "I don't think trees can talk. That piece of paper is lying."
person 2: "nah. See, the paper says it does not lie."
person 1: "uh... that looks a lot like your handwriting."
person 2: "nope. the paper clearly states that this is the word of god."

We have atheists doubting religion based on the bible, because they doubt that the bible is a valid source of information. And in response to that, people are quoting the bible, or saying that one must read the bible in order to find religion (and therefore already assuming that the bible is true... and therefore it's true!?). Now, I did just wake up, but that sounds completely bizzare to me.

dfi

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: dfi
Is it just me, or am I seeing something very... strange going on here?

What if I found on a piece of paper the following things:

1) This is the word of god.
2) This piece of paper contains no lies.
3) Trees can talk.

person 1: "I don't think trees can talk. That piece of paper is lying."
person 2: "nah. See, the paper says it does not lie."
person 1: "uh... that looks a lot like your handwriting."
person 2: "nope. the paper clearly states that this is the word of god."

We have atheists doubting religion based on the bible, because they doubt that the bible is a valid source of information. And in response to that, people are quoting the bible, or saying that one must read the bible in order to find religion (and therefore already assuming that the bible is true... and therefore it's true!?). Now, I did just wake up, but that sounds completely bizzare to me.

dfi

That about sums it up. That's what most religions are based on, blind faith. If someone challenges that based on facts you can either just ignore those and quote a totally different part of your holy book to prove you are right, or just re-explain that part in whatever way suits you.

 

[petrek]

"I know there are alot of christians out there. Now I need to know why you all believe in god, and everything that is taught in the bible. Ive been raised a christian, but recently Ive given this alot of thought. Christianity rejects ALOT of things that are widely accepted as true. I.E. Evolution, Dinosaurs, etc... "

I believe everything that is taught in the Bible because God's word (the B-I-B-L-E) tells me that God knows all, sees all, and is all powerful. I don't know all, see all, or am all powerful, and so I trust the Word of someone who is-God.
As far as why I believe in God, I believe in God so that I can spend eternity with Him in Heaven. God says that only those who accept His son Jesus as their Savior and friend can spend eternity with their Savior and friend in Heaven.

As for your statement about what Christianity rejects, let me just say that the Bible speaks of Dinosaurs (as mentioned by other posters) and Evolution. God rejects the idea that one species can "poof" morph into another species, because God clearly states in the beginning of His book that He created the species and that they would reproduce after their kind.
The fact that no two people or animals are exactly the same speaks to the reality that the offspring of two such people or animals must of a necessity be in some way changed from their parents being that they are not their parents but their parents offspring, and so, are different from their parents but still of the same species. Or at least, that's what I was taught in school.


Dave

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: petrek
"I know there are alot of christians out there. Now I need to know why you all believe in god, and everything that is taught in the bible. Ive been raised a christian, but recently Ive given this alot of thought. Christianity rejects ALOT of things that are widely accepted as true. I.E. Evolution, Dinosaurs, etc... "

I believe everything that is taught in the Bible because God's word (the B-I-B-L-E) tells me that God knows all, sees all, and is all powerful. I don't know all, see all, or am all powerful, and so I trust the Word of someone who is-God.
As far as why I believe in God, I believe in God so that I can spend eternity with Him in Heaven. God says that only those who accept His son Jesus as their Savior and friend can spend eternity with their Savior and friend in Heaven.

As for your statement about what Christianity rejects, let me just say that the Bible speaks of Dinosaurs (as mentioned by other posters) and Evolution. God rejects the idea that one species can "poof" morph into another species, because God clearly states in the beginning of His book that He created the species and that they would reproduce after their kind.
The fact that no two people or animals are exactly the same speaks to the reality that the offspring of two such people or animals must of a necessity be in some way changed from their parents being that they are not their parents but their parents offspring, and so, are different from their parents but still of the same species. Or at least, that's what I was taught in school.


Dave

You believe in God so that you can go to heaven? That doesn't make sense. You can't decide whether to believe in God. You either believe something or you don't.

I believe everything that is taught in the Bible because God's word (the B-I-B-L-E) tells me that God knows all, sees all, and is all powerful. I don't know all, see all, or am all powerful, and so I trust the Word of someone who is-God.

The Bible is God's word based on what evidence? Because it says that it is? That is circular logic. "The Bible is truth because it's God's word because it says it is God's word and the Bible is truth".

Would you please explain why the bible contradicts itself and why Jesus cursed a tree that didn't give him good fruit?

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: Jellomancer


Would you please explain why the bible contradicts itself and why Jesus cursed a tree that didn't give him good fruit?

If you were willing to have an open mind about it I'd gladly explain it.. although im fairly positive you dont have an open mind about it, if you tell me what verse you're talking about specifically I will try and explain it if you even care..
without the verse, I'm going to guess that he was using the tree as an example.. Jesus compares a tree bearing good fruit to a good Christian a lot.... if you claim to be Christian but don't bear the fruits that a Christian should bear you are no Christian.... its the same thing as an apple tree claiming to be an apple tree but bears some other fruit instead... its obviously not an apple tree...

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: sandigga

Originally posted by: Jellomancer


Would you please explain why the bible contradicts itself and why Jesus cursed a tree that didn't give him good fruit?

If you were willing to have an open mind about it I'd gladly explain it.. although im fairly positive you dont have an open mind about it, if you tell me what verse you're talking about specifically I will try and explain it if you even care..
without the verse, I'm going to guess that he was using the tree as an example.. Jesus compares a tree bearing good fruit to a good Christian a lot.... if you claim to be Christian but don't bear the fruits that a Christian should bear you are no Christian.... its the same thing as an apple tree claiming to be an apple tree but bears some other fruit instead... its obviously not an apple tree...

Remembered wrongly, he cursed it because it didn't bear fruits yet as it wasn't that time of year:

Mark 11:12-14

12 (9) On the next day, when they had left Bethany, He became hungry.
13 Seeing at a distance a fig tree in leaf, He went to see if perhaps He would find anything on it; and when He came to it, He found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs.
14 He said to it, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again!" And His disciples were listening.

(Link)

 

[petrek]

"You believe in God so that you can go to heaven? That doesn't make sense. You can't decide whether to believe in God. You either believe something or you don't."

Believing of something and believing in something are not the same. I, like basically all of my friends believed of this person named Jesus Christ of whom it was said could walk on water and who claimed to be God. None of us had a problem believing that a person named Jesus Christ actually walked the earth, but none of us believed he could walk on water, nor for that matter that he was actually God. Now however, I'm a born again believer, I believe in Jesus Christ, I trust that what is claimed of him in His book is true, no doubt exists. I think that's the difference, before I believed (had heard) of Him, now I believe (trust) in Him.



"The Bible is God's word based on what evidence? Because it says that it is? That is circular logic. "The Bible is truth because it's God's word because it says it is God's word and the Bible is truth".

Would you please explain why the bible contradicts itself and why Jesus cursed a tree that didn't give him good fruit?"

The Bible can be trusted as the word of God because it does not contain any lies, and thusly it authenticates itself as being what it claims to be, the infallible word of God.

The Bible does not contradict itself. It contains passages in contexts which aren't always the easiest to understand, and may need to be understood with other passages in order to make sense. Thus a good knowledge of the Bible is necessary if one wants to understand certain passages in the context in which they were written. It is for this reason that basically anyone can pick it up and find "contradictions" because they are only looking at the words used and not at the context in which those words are used. Context gives the meaning to the words and if you assume an unimplied meaning to a word or words you will inevitably stumble upon contradictions. Of course a lot of people are also just looking for an excuse not to trust in Christ and if they can "prove" to themselves that the Bible contains contradictions they can "convince" themselves that He shouldn't be trusted.

On the tree one I will agree with Sandigga in that it, while being true, was intended also as an example. Basically, the tree was believed to have fruit because of its initial appearance, but on closer inspection it did not. In the same way, a person can call themselves a Christian but not be born again, thus while they may appear to be a Christian, being nice and such, they are in fact not bearing fruit being that they are still in the flesh. And just as Jesus cast out those people who claimed to bear fruit and to be his disciples but were in fact workers of iniquity, so too does Jesus kill this tree for working iniquity, ie being deceptive. (Just my thoughts anywho )

Dave