Calling all christians...

[WinkOsmosis]

I posted this in the evolution thread, but this is an even more appropriate place..

Would someone PLEASE explain why the Bible is taken as the absolute truth? Like I said before, it's not a magical book, but a collection of writings from many people.
How do you know someone didn't write about evolution and that scroll was never found??

If you really feel that the bible is absolute truth, why does it contradict itself? How can God change his character and his law from the time of the Old Testament to the New Testament?
The Bible may be a great guide to behaviour but it is NOT a history book. Anyone who uses it to "disprove" evolution, needs to learn some real history. Who did the Catholic Church imprison for saying the earth was round? That was Galileo. And they extrapolated from biblical stories that the earth was flat. Creationists are doing the same thing, but like the Bible says, you can only see the plank(?) in others' eyes, not your own.

That said, I believe in the supernatural to some extent, because of personal experiences (like seeing a man who wasn't there standing by a nun on TV) and experiences of others.

And what is this about God being a tangible force in times past? Greek mythology, something everyone is familiar with, tells of a time when the gods were tangible (not the time when Hesiod and other poets recorded the mythology).. does that mean they are real? Is Zeus going to strike me down with lightening for calling him non existant?

 

[smp]

Security VS Freedom

You chain yourself down with doctrine and you feel secure, but you are not free.
You free yourself from doctrine and things become unsure, you have freedom, but no security.

Both freedom and security are illusions, that's what makes it fun.
Life is absurd, deal with it.

 

[linuxboy]

Repost. NART?


You could always pray to ET

I did, he wasn't home.


Now I need to know why you all believe in god, and everything that is taught in the bible. Ive been raised a christian, but recently Ive given this alot of thought. Christianity rejects ALOT of things that are widely accepted as true. I.E. Evolution, Dinosaurs, etc...

No it doesn't. You're wrong and I'm right.

Oh and my basis is because I'm right and you're wrong. (truly, read the archived threads; after the first 5 hours, I think you'll be more confused by me, Moonbeam, Athanasius and Elledan than ever)

Cheers !

 

[ziplux]

Originally posted by: GuybrushThreepwood

Originally posted by: ziplux

Originally posted by: lirion
A similar question would be to ask the non believers what it would take to convince them that there is a god/higher power. Knowing that would be as valuable as knowing why the believer believes.

I would need compelling scientific evidence. Or I would need to see the higher power with my own eyes.

everyone says the same thing.

Some people get a sign and some people don't. I can't explain it, so don't ask me why.

But the whole point of faith is that you believe even though you don't see the physical, tangible evidence.

ziplux if you did receive a sign from God, would you be converted on the spot?

The only thing I can have faith in is those people that I trust, the things I know to be true, and myself. One thing I don't understand is how people can take the Bible as the absolute truth. I mean, if I went up to someone and told them I had seen a giant flying thing from outer-space shaped like a pig, I would probably be laughed at. I guess the question is, where does the faith people have in the Bible and God come from?

If I received some sign from God, I would believe in God on the spot. I'm not sure if I'd become a devout religious person, but I would certainly acknowledge God's existence. Just like if I saw a giant flying thing from outer-space shaped like a pig I would acknowledge its existence. However, until I have some tangible evidence of either things I will not blindly have faith in their existence.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Hello LB,
We seem to have a rash of religious threads recently. I would prescribe topical steroids, but there is always that nasty rebound. BTW, ET was around some time back, but only WorldCom serviced his area. You can imagine how that screws things up for him now.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: linuxboy
Repost. NART?


You could always pray to ET

I did, he wasn't home.

linuxboy, you had the wrong number..

To me the whole point behind a belief in God is that it's about faith, and the presentation of scientific evidence to support or deny the existence of God is irrelevent at best. The people I know who are the best Christians are not those who stand on streetcorners with signs and bullhorns, exhorting the passers-by to repent or burn in hell, but rather those whose faith reflects their belief in a God that is all-powerful, as akin to a force of nature, permeating the universe, and whose deeds reflect their character and desire to help their fellow man.

As for me, I am not a Christian. I do not see the universe as needing a driving force, and even if there were such a thing, somehow I do not believe it would take the form of the Judeo-Christian concept of God.

Any God that requires my worship gains merely my contempt.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: VTrider
(sitting down w/popcorn)

Oh boy, this will be interesting!

(looking for spectator flame suit)


-VTrider

Heh; oh ya. Even among Christians the answers to those questions vary widely - Yes the Bible is literal/No it's open to interpretation. Good luck in the perilous yet rewarding quest for knowledge and enlightenment.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Don't you see that the roads to Mecca are all different?...The roads are different, the goal one...When people come there, all quarrels or differences or disputes that happened along the road are resolved...Those who shouted at each other along the road 'you are wrong' or 'you are an infidel' forgot their differences when they come there because there, all hearts are in unison.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: EngineNr9
Don't you see that the roads to Mecca are all different?...The roads are different, the goal one...When people come there, all quarrels or differences or disputes that happened along the road are resolved...Those who shouted at each other along the road 'you are wrong' or 'you are an infidel' forgot their differences when they come there because there, all hearts are in unison.

Riiight. Provided everyone's a Muslim...

 

[PistachioByAzul]

I guess if you were to read it literally...

 

[Furyline]

Originally posted by: EngineNr9
Don't you see that the roads to Mecca are all different?...The roads are different, the goal one...When people come there, all quarrels or differences or disputes that happened along the road are resolved...Those who shouted at each other along the road 'you are wrong' or 'you are an infidel' forgot their differences when they come there because there, all hearts are in unison.

unless they blew themselves up on the way there.

I'm sorry, that probably wasn't needed.

BTW, I'm Protestant, and I think Jewish people rock. I wish I could be as dedicated as they are. A majority of Christians, unfortunately, don't know anything about 3/4 of the Bible (including myself, I should say). They treat Christianity like a hobby, only paying attention to it for maybe 2-3 hours a week.

Mike

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I was raised Christian (grandfather was a Baptist minister, his son AME Zion, and my mother Baptist). The emphasis was to learn the words THEN understand the words. I've rejected most of the "rules" imparted by the religion but the spirituality remains. It is easy to share that with people of essentially any faith of spirituality versus ideology.

The Bible often has no meaning outside of a given context. Jesus' sayings are an exception b/c he often spoke in parables. Hence, we are often left to read what someone thought he meant. Kosher rules, the Ten Commandments, and Jesus' command to love thy brother require no interpretation and are contextually independent. Curiously, most Christians don't follow them.

Few faiths would claim me as a Christian . . . some are quite flexible though . . . Lutherans, Quakers. Others say I'm lower than a non-believer (ignorant of Christ) b/c technically I'm rejecting Christ . . . at least THEIR version of him.

 

[Chaotic42]

I'm a Christian, but I believe that everything in the Bible isn't complete fact.

Why am I Christian? A series of dreams terrifying enough to scare a hardened atheist into religion.

 

[Moonbeam]

I can't speak as a Christian or as somebody very well informed about it, but to my mind the central fact of Christianity, its important and central idea is that you have been forgiven. That is an unimaginably wonderful piece of good news if you could just believe it. Personally I think it is the hardest thing in the world to believe, the last thing that anybody wants to do because it would seem to require the complete collapse of ego, our false pretence that we are not guilty. Christianity, then, seems to me to be particularly well suited to the downtrodden, the meek, the useless, the sinners, anybody who has been humiliated enough as to not think much of himself consciously rather than just unconsciously. Such people are open to feeling their worthlessness, their feelings of guilt. For them Christ's message can get through. They are desperate enough to hear. Imagine what it must be like to feel totally worthless and find out that you are loved, that somebody gave his life so you could be forgiven, that you are worth the life of God, that you are loved absolutely and without condition.

But I don't think most Christians get anywhere near that. I think for most it's just an intellectual thing. Something they believe in and do on Sunday. Inwardly, they have no realization of their inner pain and don't want to. Such people need to take their religion more seriously, or maybe get into therapy where they can go deeper.

The central fact of human existence, in my opinion, is that we hate ourselves and generally don't know it. Uncovering the self that lies beneath the hated self is the goal and purpose of all religions. Each has its strengths and weaknesses depending on who we are, the particular way in which we are ill and the preconceptions we bring to the table. Dinosaurs and the rest of it is irrelevant, especially if you are forgiven and know it.

 

[mudkiller]

what happened before God/god(s)?

 

[madthumbs]

First don't confuse organized religion with christianity. Just because catholics call themselves "christian" doesn't make them christians.

John 1:1; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." -I believe this to mean that if you follow Christ, you are to follow the Word. Relgions take things way out of context, and interpret things to thier own benefit. Read the Bible enough times and you will see this for yourself. You will see also that religion fails.

Just because evolution is widely accepted as true doesn't mean that it's true. I've gone through great depths to find any evidence that evolution (either a one celled creature can just appear in nature, or any species can gain a chromasome) may be possible. I believe in adaptation and feel that most people assume adaptation=evolution. IE; there is a large variety of dogs, but they're all still dogs.

Creatures described in the Bible in older books such as Job describe beasts that don't exist in our time. How can christianity therefore reject dinosaurs?

The only way to gain faith is by reading or hearing the Word. The Word is the only religious writing that authenticates itself through 100% accurate prophecy, and history as proven by scientific evidence. It's likely that you were taught not to take the Bible literally. By reading it enough you will learn how to properly take it. It teaches itself and needs no teacher. It is authenticated; religions are not... at least none that I've seen.

 

[Red Dawn]

First don't confuse organized religion with christianity. Just because catholics call themselves "christian" doesn't make them christians.

Ah this is entertaining. Whackjobs arguing over who are the real Christians. All you need is the head Whackjob, Mr. Paltroll in this thread and it will be a 4 star entertainment value.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: madthumbs
First don't confuse organized religion with christianity. Just because catholics call themselves "christian" doesn't make them christians.

John 1:1; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." -I believe this to mean that if you follow Christ, you are to follow the Word. Relgions take things way out of context, and interpret things to thier own benefit. Read the Bible enough times and you will see this for yourself. You will see also that religion fails.

Just because evolution is widely accepted as true doesn't mean that it's true. I've gone through great depths to find any evidence that evolution (either a one celled creature can just appear in nature, or any species can gain a chromasome) may be possible. I believe in adaptation and feel that most people assume adaptation=evolution. IE; there is a large variety of dogs, but they're all still dogs.

Creatures described in the Bible in older books such as Job describe beasts that don't exist in our time. How can christianity therefore reject dinosaurs?

The only way to gain faith is by reading or hearing the Word. The Word is the only religious writing that authenticates itself through 100% accurate prophecy, and history as proven by scientific evidence. It's likely that you were taught not to take the Bible literally. By reading it enough you will learn how to properly take it. It teaches itself and needs no teacher. It is authenticated; religions are not... at least none that I've seen.

Yeah the Bible as authenticated... by religion. In no History book does God kill babies then turn nice around 1AD.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: madthumbs
First don't confuse organized religion with christianity. Just because catholics call themselves "christian" doesn't make them christians.

Jesus said he had come to fullfill the old laws not to change them. He himself did not break the old traditions, so anyone not following the old laws is going against what he preached. Saying that he changed them by coming is only a way to find peace in breaking his teachings.

Just because evolution is widely accepted as true doesn't mean that it's true. I've gone through great depths to find any evidence that evolution (either a one celled creature can just appear in nature, or any species can gain a chromasome) may be possible. I believe in adaptation and feel that most people assume adaptation=evolution. IE; there is a large variety of dogs, but they're all still dogs.

Matthew 15:24-26 (At least in the copy I have here), Jesus says he had only come for the people of Israel, and calls other people dogs.

Creatures described in the Bible in older books such as Job describe beasts that don't exist in our time. How can christianity therefore reject dinosaurs?

Ah, you mean Behemoth? Which is most likely simply Bahamut, borrowed from Babylonian mythology? Just like Christmas day was borrowed from the Pagan light feast?

Job 40 also says about Behemoth that it hid behind reeds and lotus, which might be a bit hard for a Tirannosaur Rex, but would be pretty easy for, for example, a crocodile (which also happens to be used as translation for Behemoth in the copy I have here).

If there were so many dinosaurs around (just look at the number of fossils found so far), and so much variation among them, and they lived during the same period as humans, how come there are not more stories about those? Why did people think it was more important to record information about wolves, mules and sheep than the 120 feet tall reptiles feeding on them?

Some 'Dinosaur in Bible' info.
And more.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

If there were so many dinosaurs around (just look at the number of fossils found so far), and so much variation among them, and they lived during the same period as humans, how come there are not more stories about those? Why did people think it was more important to record information about wolves, mules and sheep than the 120 feet tall reptiles feeding on them?

Hmm, now that I think of it, anyone stopping long enough to write anything down in sight of a T-Rex probably wouldn't live long enough in the first place

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1


Matthew 15:24-26 (At least in the copy I have here), Jesus says he had only come for the people of Israel, and calls other people dogs.

congratulations.. did you bother to read the next two verses??

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: sandigga

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1


Matthew 15:24-26 (At least in the copy I have here), Jesus says he had only come for the people of Israel, and calls other people dogs.

congratulations.. did you bother to read the next two verses??

Yes. Does that make the fact different that he called the Israelis a people and everyone else dogs? Not unbelievers, not people without a religion or whatever, but dogs?

Does that mean they are animals, and there to serve 'the real humans'? So basically you are allowed to enslave all unbelievers?

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: sandigga

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1


Matthew 15:24-26 (At least in the copy I have here), Jesus says he had only come for the people of Israel, and calls other people dogs.

congratulations.. did you bother to read the next two verses??

Yes. Does that make the fact different that he called the Israelis a people and everyone else dogs? Not unbelievers, not people without a religion or whatever, but dogs?

Does that mean they are animals, and there to serve 'the real humans'? So basically you are allowed to enslave all unbelievers?

he was testing the woman's faith... obviously...

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: sandigga

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: sandigga

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1


Matthew 15:24-26 (At least in the copy I have here), Jesus says he had only come for the people of Israel, and calls other people dogs.

congratulations.. did you bother to read the next two verses??

Yes. Does that make the fact different that he called the Israelis a people and everyone else dogs? Not unbelievers, not people without a religion or whatever, but dogs?

Does that mean they are animals, and there to serve 'the real humans'? So basically you are allowed to enslave all unbelievers?

he was testing the woman's faith... obviously...

Obviously... He told his disciples that he had come for the people of Israel on several more occasions, guess their faith was even more doubtful.

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: sandigga

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: sandigga

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1


Matthew 15:24-26 (At least in the copy I have here), Jesus says he had only come for the people of Israel, and calls other people dogs.

congratulations.. did you bother to read the next two verses??

Yes. Does that make the fact different that he called the Israelis a people and everyone else dogs? Not unbelievers, not people without a religion or whatever, but dogs?

Does that mean they are animals, and there to serve 'the real humans'? So basically you are allowed to enslave all unbelievers?

he was testing the woman's faith... obviously...

Obviously... He told his disciples that he had come for the people of Israel on several more occasions, guess their faith was even more doubtful.

I thought we were talking about him calling them dogs?? why are you changing the focus of the discussion around?
anyways this is a useless argument because regardless of what he says Jesus still granted the woman's request and healed her daughter... action is greater than words.. im sure we can agree with that...