Califronia sues top 6 automakers in US as nuisances

[getbush]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...921/BUSINESS01/609210324/1014/BUSINESS

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aSthCirr_IoI&refer=us

General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp., DaimlerChrysler AG, Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. have created a "public nuisance" by making millions of vehicles that emit huge quantities of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that increases the temperature of the earth's atmosphere, according to a complaint filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Oakland, Calif.

I'm pretty sure California now qualifies as a nuisance to the rest of the country. Laguna Beach, The Hills, The O.C., and now this. I'm so over California. How do you think Hyundai and others feel about this? They're not getting sued, but CA is totally disrespecting them as a company. They should file suit for discrimination 🙂

 

[tw1164]

I don't see this case going very far. It reminds me of the gun manufacturer lawsuits. Cars don't pollute, people do. 😉

 

[jrenz]

Why not just sue the decendants of Mr. Ford for reparations?

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: getbush
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...921/BUSINESS01/609210324/1014/BUSINESS

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aSthCirr_IoI&refer=us

General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp., DaimlerChrysler AG, Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. have created a "public nuisance" by making millions of vehicles that emit huge quantities of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that increases the temperature of the earth's atmosphere, according to a complaint filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Oakland, Calif.

I'm pretty sure California now qualifies as a nuisance to the rest of the country. Laguna Beach, The Hills, The O.C., and now this. I'm so over California. How do you think Hyundai and others feel about this? They're not getting sued, but CA is totally disrespecting them as a company. They should file suit for discrimination 🙂

You forgot 90210, and all the crappy music that comes out of california, all of the wanna be tough guy punk bands like Good Charlotte, + 1 million others that I can't even name because I switch the station immediately.

 

[Genx87]

As the lawyer files the complain drives off in his SUV lmao.

Like I said in the other thread about this in off-topic, he should sue himself for contributing to the problem.

 

[Riddlinkidstoner]

Hey silicon valley is here, don't deny our coolness.

You have been terminated.

 

[Todd33]

I think the point is to raise awareness of the problem, not to win. Thanks for the help boys.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: getbush
I'm pretty sure California now qualifies as a nuisance to the rest of the country. Laguna Beach, The Hills, The O.C., and now this. I'm so over California. How do you think Hyundai and others feel about this? They're not getting sued, but CA is totally disrespecting them as a company. They should file suit for discrimination 🙂

I'm proud to be a native Californian. Natural geographic and weather conditions are amont the reasons we have some of the worst air pollution problems in the nation. The same population density and passenger milage in other locales do not cause the same level of lingering pollution.

That's why we lead the nation in actively and aggresively tryin to clean up the leading sources of pollution to our environment. Our geography is also the reason we have so many cars and trucks on the road, but we have significantly reduced air pollution since we started legislating to mandate cleaner vehichles.

There used to be two basic models of almost all cars -- one that met California standards and one for the other 49 states. Somehow, every auto manufacturer has since found ways to manufacture cars in all markets that meet California's standards.

You're pissing and moaning about Hyundai, but your profile says you live in Michigan. To put it in your terms, I'm "so over" pissant whiners like you. Without our leadership, the entire North American continent would still be breathing far more polluted air. If you don't like the way we do it, please STFU and stay in your own stinking state.

:thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Todd33
I think the point is to raise awareness of the problem, not to win. Thanks for the help boys.

So it is a frivolous lawsuit then, gotcha.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Corn
So it is a frivolous lawsuit then, gotcha.

Thanks for your ill-informed, speculative guess. One more reminder of the kind of thinking that has allowed Japanese auto makers to continue ripping American manufacturers a new one for decades. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Corn
So it is a frivolous lawsuit then, gotcha.

Thanks for your ill-informed, speculative guess. One more reminder of the kind of thinking that has allowed Japanese auto makers to continue ripping American manufacturers a new one for decades. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

Allow me to requote Todd33 regarding this lawsuit again:

Originally posted by: Todd33
I think the point is to raise awareness of the problem, not to win.

If the goal is not to win the lawsuit, but to simply "raise awareness", how can that be anything but a frivolous lawsuit?

Funny how there are a few Japanese auto makers named in that frivolous lawsuit as well......

....but you go ahead and continue with your juvenile personal attacks.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Corn
....but you go ahead and continue with your juvenile personal attacks.

I said your opinion is ill-informed and speculative. That's my opinion, and you're welcome to disagree or prove me wrong, but that's hardly a personal attack.

The rest of my post does take American car makers to task for the willing, greed driven short term intentional blindness demonstrated by their product lines' emphasis on SUV's and other gas guzzlers. If you're not an exec at one of those companies, it's hard to see how that's any kind of personal attack on you, either. 🙂

If you ARE an exec at one of those companies, you deserve all the scorn anyone can heap on you. :thumbsdown:

 

[rudder]

The automakers should charge an additional $15,000 on each car to fight the lawsuit and then see how much the people of California like riding bikes on the interstate.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: getbush
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...921/BUSINESS01/609210324/1014/BUSINESS

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aSthCirr_IoI&refer=us

General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., Toyota Motor Corp., DaimlerChrysler AG, Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. have created a "public nuisance" by making millions of vehicles that emit huge quantities of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that increases the temperature of the earth's atmosphere, according to a complaint filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Oakland, Calif.

I'm pretty sure California now qualifies as a nuisance to the rest of the country. Laguna Beach, The Hills, The O.C., and now this. I'm so over California. How do you think Hyundai and others feel about this? They're not getting sued, but CA is totally disrespecting them as a company. They should file suit for discrimination 🙂

But, but California sets our really cool trends!

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
But, but California sets our really cool trends!

Like cleaner cars, for example. And aren't you glad we can all breathe a little easier (literally) because we do? :thumbsup: 😎 :thumbsup:

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: rudder
The automakers should charge an additional $15,000 on each car to fight the lawsuit and then see how much the people of California like riding bikes on the interstate.

I wonder how many people would just buy used cars and send the car makers into a tailspin.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Corn
....but you go ahead and continue with your juvenile personal attacks.

I said your opinion is ill-informed and speculative. That's my opinion, and you're welcome to disagree or prove me wrong, but that's hardly a personal attack.

The rest of my post does take American car makers to task for the willing, greed driven short term intentional blindness demonstrated by their product lines' emphasis on SUV's and other gas guzzlers. If you're not an exec at one of those companies, it's hard to see how that's any kind of personal attack on you, either. 🙂

If you ARE an exec at one of those companies, you deserve all the scorn anyone can heap on you. :thumbsdown:

I work for a company owned by one of Detroit's automakers, FYI. However my employer is not in the automotive business.

Another FYI, I haven't given an opinion regarding the lawsuit yet. My "opinion" was simply mocking Todd's opinion. Now, if Todd's opinion of the suit is an accurate represenation regarding the intent of the suit, then I do support the fact that it is simply a frivolous lawsuit--a complete waste of governmental and private resources.

Here's my opinion regarding this suit: California is taking the cowardly approach to this supposed problem. Instead of having the integrity to stand by their conviction and ban the sale of these supposed nuisances, California has determined the standards they imposed just 2 years ago on carmakers isn't enough and now they are looking to extort $$ from the carmakers. Either that or it is simply payback for the carmaker's suit looking to throw out the emission standards California imposed in 2004.

 

[piasabird]

I do think we can do more to fight against pollution. However, car companies dont force anyone to buy a car. I do think the Government could limit the size and weight for passenger cars and start making consumers pay through the roof if they want to go out and buy the largest SUV on earth. Make all SUV's be considered Trucks and make it more expensive to license these large SUV's that are basically big trucks.

People might be willing to purchase smaller vehicles cars if they could get a tax break or incentive for doing so. If they want to buy gas gusslers then Tax Em! Larger vehicles ware out the road faster, as well as burn more gas.

Also the Regions with too many cars should build light rail as a means of transporting people. My biggest complaints with Bus Service is that often people have to work on Sunday or Midnights and they can not even find any transportation that time of day/night.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I do think we can do more to fight against pollution. However, car companies dont force anyone to buy a car.

I disagree. Transportation is an essential part of contemporary society. We can't get to work, to school, home, or anywhere else without it. The mode of transport is another issue, but in California, we're stuck with a layout that that's centered on cars so, until that changes, we're stuck with doing the best we can with them.

If the car companies insist on promoting the big gas guzzlers, there's not a lot an individual consumer can do, other than try to make better informed choices, despite the sales hype we're force fed through the media.

The only times the auto industry has done ANYTHING to address societal problems their products cause is when they're forced to do so by legislation or litigation. Examples are legislated requirements for better milage, unleaded gas, seat belts, air bags and more.

Every time these bills came up, the auto companies sued and stalled and attempted to sway legislators through all possible means to forestall the inevitable. And it is inevitable. If we don't take care of the pollution caused by our means of transport, they can make all the SUV's they want, but they won't sell very many of them to a dying population that pollutes itself out of existence.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: getbush
I'm pretty sure California now qualifies as a nuisance to the rest of the country. Laguna Beach, The Hills, The O.C., and now this. I'm so over California. How do you think Hyundai and others feel about this? They're not getting sued, but CA is totally disrespecting them as a company. They should file suit for discrimination 🙂

I'm proud to be a native Californian. Natural geographic and weather conditions are amont the reasons we have some of the worst air pollution problems in the nation. The same population density and passenger milage in other locales do not cause the same level of lingering pollution.

That's why we lead the nation in actively and aggresively tryin to clean up the leading sources of pollution to our environment. Our geography is also the reason we have so many cars and trucks on the road, but we have significantly reduced air pollution since we started legislating to mandate cleaner vehichles.

There used to be two basic models of almost all cars -- one that met California standards and one for the other 49 states. Somehow, every auto manufacturer has since found ways to manufacture cars in all markets that meet California's standards.

You're pissing and moaning about Hyundai, but your profile says you live in Michigan. To put it in your terms, I'm "so over" pissant whiners like you. Without our leadership, the entire North American continent would still be breathing far more polluted air. If you don't like the way we do it, please STFU and stay in your own stinking state.

:thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

Maybe we all don't want to pay California prices for stuff. Your gas is higher. Your cars are higher. Your rent is higher. Ya'll do your thing and leave the rest of the country alone.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: episodic
Maybe we all don't want to pay California prices for stuff. Your gas is higher. Your cars are higher. Your rent is higher. Ya'll do your thing and leave the rest of the country alone.

Our gas is cleaner because it has to be, just to deal with our meteorlogical and geological conditions require it just to allow us to continue breathing. OTOH, our cars no longer cost more because, since the auto manufacturers were forced to clean up their act, they actually found ways to do it. They only got there while yelling, screaming and dragging their heels to forestall and avoid it, but once it was law, somehow, they miraculously found the technology to do it.

Maybe what you want is irrelevant to the sentient human beings among us who want to keep living and breathing and not poisoning ourselves, our kids, our ground water, our food sources, our forests, our wildlife, and on and on. If you don't, you can always move to a home a couple of blocks from some older, leaky smelting or chemical processing plant and encourage them to enrich your atmosphere with their toxic byproducts. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: episodic
Maybe we all don't want to pay California prices for stuff. Your gas is higher. Your cars are higher. Your rent is higher. Ya'll do your thing and leave the rest of the country alone.

Our gas is cleaner because it has to be, just to deal with our meteorlogical and geological conditions require it just to allow us to continue breathing. OTOH, our cars no longer cost more because, since the auto manufacturers were forced to clean up their act, they actually found ways to do it. They only got there while yelling, screaming and dragging their heels to forestall and avoid it, but once it was law, somehow, they miraculously found the technology to do it.

Maybe what you want is irrelevant to the sentient human beings among us who want to keep living and breathing and not poisoning ourselves, our kids, our ground water, our food sources, our forests, our wildlife, and on and on. If you don't, you can always move to a home a couple of blocks from some older, leaky smelting or chemical processing plant and encourage them to enrich your atmosphere with their toxic byproducts. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

What I read about constantly is that area wanting it both ways:

Why does the area not embrace wind farms? Why does the area not embrace nuclear power? Why does the area not build new hydroelectric power? Why does the area not use ocean currents to generate electricity? Geothermal energy? Etc. . .

I'd rather live somewhere that attracts industry - does not attack it - attracts new ideas - does'nt shut them down with endless red tape, etc.

You can encourage industry to clean up by giving tax breaks to those with good track records, working cooperatively with businesses, realizing that progress is necessary and not bad - and not saddling an area with crippling legislation,taxes,and energy costs.

Sorry you took it personally. I just think there are other ways.

 

[BrownTown]

I think its funny that everyone thinks the deep south is so regressive and stuff, yet of the 20 new nuclear plants proposed all of them are east of the mississippi and south of the Mason-Dixon line. Whats funniest tis that these countires already have the cheapest power, and its precisely becasue people actually DONT complain everytime they try to build a new power plant or heavy industry, they welcome them becasue it mean more money and more jobs coming into the local economies. Now i guess the California people think they are too good for this type of stuff, but that justg measn they have to pay people in other places to do it for them, and then pay even more to have it shipped over.

Case in point is the 10 coal plants being proposed up in the northwest regions which will send all their power into southern california, putting the plants up there is nto very efficicent, but since they cant build them in California they have to build them somewhere else, and people in California buy the power at twice what it costs everywhere else. Adn the funniest part of it all is that this means even MORE CO2 is produced since more power is being post over the long power lines. California is all "hear no evil speak no evil see no evil", they think that if they jsut export all their problems they will magically go away.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
I think its funny that everyone thinks the deep south is so regressive and stuff, yet of the 20 new nuclear plants proposed all of them are east of the mississippi and south of the Mason-Dixon line. Whats funniest tis that these countires already have the cheapest power, and its precisely becasue people actually DONT complain everytime they try to build a new power plant or heavy industry, they welcome them becasue it mean more money and more jobs coming into the local economies. Now i guess the California people think they are too good for this type of stuff, but that justg measn they have to pay people in other places to do it for them, and then pay even more to have it shipped over.

Case in point is the 10 coal plants being proposed up in the northwest regions which will send all their power into southern california, putting the plants up there is nto very efficicent, but since they cant build them in California they have to build them somewhere else, and people in California buy the power at twice what it costs everywhere else. Adn the funniest part of it all is that this means even MORE CO2 is produced since more power is being post over the long power lines. California is all "hear no evil speak no evil see no evil", they think that if they jsut esport all their problems they will magically go away.

That is funny as transmitting electricity long distances is INDEED very 'wasteful' as the resistance of the wire causes much of the power to be lost along the way.

 

[dannybek]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
I think its funny that everyone thinks the deep south is so regressive and stuff, yet of the 20 new nuclear plants proposed all of them are east of the mississippi and south of the Mason-Dixon line. Whats funniest tis that these countires already have the cheapest power, and its precisely becasue people actually DONT complain everytime they try to build a new power plant or heavy industry, they welcome them becasue it mean more money and more jobs coming into the local economies. Now i guess the California people think they are too good for this type of stuff, but that justg measn they have to pay people in other places to do it for them, and then pay even more to have it shipped over.

Case in point is the 10 coal plants being proposed up in the northwest regions which will send all their power into southern california, putting the plants up there is nto very efficicent, but since they cant build them in California they have to build them somewhere else, and people in California buy the power at twice what it costs everywhere else. Adn the funniest part of it all is that this means even MORE CO2 is produced since more power is being post over the long power lines. California is all "hear no evil speak no evil see no evil", they think that if they jsut export all their problems they will magically go away.

You said "proposed" therefore your entire last paragraph is speculative. I would like some sources please.