California Will Likely Give Grants to Illegal Students

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Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
http://www.scpr.org/news/2011/06/01/california-dream-act-passed-state-assembly/

California lawmakers voted Wednesday to open the door to state-funded financial aid for immigrant college students who entered the United States illegally.

The state Assembly approved AB 131, part of the California Dream Act, on a 46-25 party line vote. It now goes to the Senate.
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Arnie was blocking this and Brown will likely sign it.

This is ludicrous especially considering the budget. The way I see it if you support this bill you're basically saying that we shouldn't have any limits on immigration and that we can and should share American quality of living with the entire world.

Maybe I'm a pessimist but I just don't see how this is possible. The left complains about a decrease in services and public spending but then goes and does this. For those who support this, where do you stop? Do you want to pay for everyone in the whole world's education? Do you think there should be any limits on immigration? Do you think we can afford it?
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,169
55,731
136
Infohawk said:
http://www.scpr.org/news/2011/06/01/california-dream-act-passed-state-assembly/



Arnie was blocking this and Brown will likely sign it.

This is ludicrous especially considering the budget. The way I see it if you support this bill you're basically saying that we shouldn't have any limits on immigration and that we can and should share American quality of living with the entire world.

Maybe I'm a pessimist but I just don't see how this is possible. The left complains about a decrease in services and public spending but then goes and does this. For those who support this, where do you stop? Do you want to pay for everyone in the whole world's education? Do you think there should be any limits on immigration? Do you think we can afford it?
Click to expand...

I fail to see how electing not to deny people educational aid for actions that they didn't willingly take is equivalent to 'no limits on immigration, school for everyone'. The bill says that if you were brought into the US after you were born, but before you were 16, you can be eligible for these grants. It's for kids that got yanked over the border by their parents when they were too young to do anything about it.
 
I

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
eskimospy said:
I fail to see how electing not to deny people educational aid for actions that they didn't willingly take is equivalent to 'no limits on immigration, school for everyone'. The bill says that if you were brought into the US after you were born, but before you were 16, you can be eligible for these grants. It's for kids that got yanked over the border by their parents when they were too young to do anything about it.
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You're basically providing an incentive for illegal immigrants to come here with their kids. Are you saying you think we should try to stop new illegals from coming here? Then what? If they succeed we say, "OK, good job now your kids get the first world benefits you came here for." It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Do you genuinely think there should be limits on immigration to this country? If so, what kind of limits?
 
N

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
eskimospy said:
I fail to see how electing not to deny people educational aid for actions that they didn't willingly take is equivalent to 'no limits on immigration, school for everyone'. The bill says that if you were brought into the US after you were born, but before you were 16, you can be eligible for these grants. It's for kids that got yanked over the border by their parents when they were too young to do anything about it.
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Poor illegals pulled in to a better life by illegals....

When is breaking a law not breaking a law?
 
D

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
What is funny is students who originally came her on a dependent visa and stayed to go to college here on a student visa do NOT Qualify for this. This is only for people here illegally.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,169
55,731
136
Infohawk said:
You're basically providing an incentive for illegal immigrants to come here with their kids. Are you saying you think we should try to stop new illegals from coming here? Then what? If they succeed we say, "OK, good job now your kids get the first world benefits you came here for." It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Do you genuinely think there should be limits on immigration to this country? If so, what kind of limits?
Click to expand...

People don't come to America for the 'first world benefits'. They come here for the work. (they don't think they can get the benefits, and in most cases they don't apply for them anyway out of fear of deportation.) This has been shown in study after study after study.

What I would do is have a system with almost no limits for people who were coming here to work. Totally shift the system around to make it extremely easy to immigrate to America so long as you had some sort of job. Other than that I would screen for criminal records, and that's about it. The US needs as many people willing to bust their ass as we can get. It's what America was built on.

Xenophobia like I see on this board all the time is nothing new to this country, there's a different 'out' group with each couple of generations. We used to be afraid of the German, of the Italian, the Irish, and the Chinaman. It's always been wrong in the past, and it's still wrong now.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,169
55,731
136
PC Surgeon said:
Poor illegals pulled in to a better life by illegals....

When is breaking a law not breaking a law?
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Easy. Breaking a law requires Mens rea. A child brought across the border by their parent lacks the criminal intent necessary.

Why do you ask?
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,175
10,475
136
Thing is, so long as the border is not secure and we're allowing these people to stay here, then we have no alternative than to treat them as Americans - for they aren't going anywhere and their children will help them attain majority population in multiple states.

What you are seeing is them bending to the reality of the state's future owners. Those children given an education today will be tomorrow's government. I guarantee it.

We'll either give them some money and a pat on the back and hope that maybe we can buy their loyalty or they'll assume power and turn it against us with foreign separatist loyalties. Aileniating them and treating them as an underclass will only hasten our undoing for they will rise to power regardless of any action we take.
 
Attic

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
Passing this kind of law provides incentive for immigrant families to come here illegally.

Denying this law and this type of funding to illegal immigrant children would provide incentive for immigrants to come here legally.



The fallout in terms of cost and providing more incentive for families to come to California illegally puts California's immediate and longterm finances and quality of life for the lower and middle class in jeopordy.

It's the citizens in the lower/middle class that gets hurt the most financially by illegal immigrants. The passage of this bill is going to put more burden on them as they will continue to struggle with higher taxes, more fierce job competition (Read: Lower Wages) and decreased representation by each of their tax dollars for themselves and their children while they are forced to subsidize the quality of life (education/health care/protection/services) for illegals.
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
eskimospy said:
I fail to see how electing not to deny people educational aid for actions that they didn't willingly take is equivalent to 'no limits on immigration, school for everyone'. The bill says that if you were brought into the US after you were born, but before you were 16, you can be eligible for these grants. It's for kids that got yanked over the border by their parents when they were too young to do anything about it.
Click to expand...

Not really, it only includes those who came here illegally. Those who meet your requirement but came legally do not get any money.
 
D

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Sometimes words are just not enough to convey the outrage and betrayal that CA dems are committing against US citizens in Ca and legal immigrants. On top of the fact that the state is basically bankrupt and the UC system is on the same path budget wise as the state.
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,175
10,475
136
Question: There are 10s of millions already here. They're having children and combined that population will one day be 1/4th of the United States. What are you going to do about it?
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,169
55,731
136
DCal430 said:
Not really, it only includes those who came here illegally. Those who meet your requirement but came legally do not get any money.
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Permanent residents are most certainly eligible for the same student aid. (they are actually eligible for far more)
 
D

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
eskimospy said:
Permanent residents are most certainly eligible for the same student aid. (they are actually eligible for far more)
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People on Visas are not. Their are people who came here on a dependent VISA and stayed with a student Visa. They are not eligible for anything.
 
C

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Typical nonsensical, hysterical, emotional, xenophobic, fact-free 'discussion' of the issue.

One funny thing is that some of the people who are behaving that way are in a group that likes to think they're the 'pragmatic' people.

Burying their head in the sand about dealing with the facts and just chanting 'but they're illegal'! is what they call pragmatism.

Meanwhile they have easy answers to all issues: end benefits, increase sentences.
 
I

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
eskimospy said:
People don't come to America for the 'first world benefits'. They come here for the work. (they don't think they can get the benefits, and in most cases they don't apply for them anyway out of fear of deportation.) This has been shown in study after study after study.

What I would do is have a system with almost no limits for people who were coming here to work. Totally shift the system around to make it extremely easy to immigrate to America so long as you had some sort of job. Other than that I would screen for criminal records, and that's about it. The US needs as many people willing to bust their ass as we can get. It's what America was built on.

Xenophobia like I see on this board all the time is nothing new to this country, there's a different 'out' group with each couple of generations. We used to be afraid of the German, of the Italian, the Irish, and the Chinaman. It's always been wrong in the past, and it's still wrong now.
Click to expand...

I'm disappointed that you had to resort to labeling your opponents xenophobes but at least you were honest that you don't really want any limits on immigration. And it's really the only position that makes sense if you support this kind of bill. It inherently undermines immigration control.

Next question, do you really think that anything other than unbridled chaos would result from open immigration? Do you think that the US government could magically provide hundreds of millions of new third worlders with the same benefits people get now?
 
lupi

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
so much for the california $$$ troubles being due to the prop voting system.
 
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