California Must Be Doing Something Right Despite Trump hating it so much

[Moonbeam]

Me think prop 13 should go, with a system that allows current owner to deferr tax til sale of said property. They still pay the current tax rate following prop 13 rules. Once sold government recoup deferred tax. For individuals, not businesses.

Cali needs density, it's just ridiculously low desnity housing spread across all the land.

It used to be that supply and demand allowed people to have the American dream, a house with a white picket fence and a yard for BBQ a garden and a safe place for kids and a dog to play in. Now in the SF Bay Area for example, large numbers of wealthy people want the same thing and are the only ones now who can buy what comes up for sale. People wanted to escape living like sardines in the city and still do if to somewhat a lesser degree owing to the complications population density creates for moving quickly from home to work. High density housing in suburban areas exacerbates the transportation issue making down town traffic all over the bay area. When I drive anywhere now I scream at the top of my lungs at the world and demand God bring us a plague to kill off 90% of the vermin. present company excepted of course. There are no solutions to the fact that some people have lived in areas that nowadays everybody wants to live in too. Move them out. Perhaps the Navajo will welcome them on the reservation. Maybe we can just build right over them, leaving a little window for their cellar. In my opinion people are genetically programmed to form attachments to land. It's a fool of a liberal whose ideas run up against that and imagines having success. The way civilizations solve their problems is by collapsing from within. Everybody gets fucked and you start over. I don't know what will happen when we run out of land for historical sites. Amnesia drugs perhaps.

 

[fskimospy]

Right! Way way more people are hurting who have no money than people who are hurting and are wealthy, so just confiscate the money the rich have and give it to the poor. The numbers support and justify this action. Eliminate private property altogether and construct high rise settlement camps. Or let's go underground and live like ants. Some people are hurting more. Sounds like you could find there a good rational to get rid of the Jews. Let's just rename them turtles.

You remind me of the Jonathan Winters film, The Loved One, where he owns a funeral home and cemetary that as a residential subdivision would reep him millions, all the dead people posing a problem for rezoning where he says, 'Get those stiffs off my land.'

This is just hysterical ranting at this point. You doing okay?

 

[fskimospy]

It used to be that supply and demand allowed people to have the American dream, a house with a white picket fence and a yard for BBQ a garden and a safe place for kids and a dog to play in. Now in the SF Bay Area for example, large numbers of wealthy people want the same thing and are the only ones now who can buy what comes up for sale. People wanted to escape living like sardines in the city and still do if to somewhat a lesser degree owing to the complications population density creates for moving quickly from home to work. High density housing in suburban areas exacerbates the transportation issue making down town traffic all over the bay area. When I drive anywhere now I scream at the top of my lungs at the world and demand God bring us a plague to kill off 90% of the vermin. present company excepted of course. There are no solutions to the fact that some people have lived in areas that nowadays everybody wants to live in too. Move them out. Perhaps the Navajo will welcome them on the reservation. Maybe we can just build right over them, leaving a little window for their cellar. In my opinion people are genetically programmed to form attachments to land. It's a fool of a liberal whose ideas run up against that and imagines having success. The way civilizations solve their problems is by collapsing from within. Everybody gets fucked and you start over. I don't know what will happen when we run out of land for historical sites. Amnesia drugs perhaps.

You’re arguing against denser housing while complaining about high housing prices...which are the direct result of arguing against denser housing.

In high demand areas you can have sparse housing that only rich people can afford or you can have dense housing that everyone can afford. You have to pick one.

 

[sdifox]

It used to be that supply and demand allowed people to have the American dream, a house with a white picket fence and a yard for BBQ a garden and a safe place for kids and a dog to play in. Now in the SF Bay Area for example, large numbers of wealthy people want the same thing and are the only ones now who can buy what comes up for sale. People wanted to escape living like sardines in the city and still do if to somewhat a lesser degree owing to the complications population density creates for moving quickly from home to work. High density housing in suburban areas exacerbates the transportation issue making down town traffic all over the bay area. When I drive anywhere now I scream at the top of my lungs at the world and demand God bring us a plague to kill off 90% of the vermin. present company excepted of course. There are no solutions to the fact that some people have lived in areas that nowadays everybody wants to live in too. Move them out. Perhaps the Navajo will welcome them on the reservation. Maybe we can just build right over them, leaving a little window for their cellar. In my opinion people are genetically programmed to form attachments to land. It's a fool of a liberal whose ideas run up against that and imagines having success. The way civilizations solve their problems is by collapsing from within. Everybody gets fucked and you start over. I don't know what will happen when we run out of land for historical sites. Amnesia drugs perhaps.

at some point you have to go higher density. There is no avoiding it. Otherwise you keep sprawling outwards and the congested area just becomes bigger. Public transit is the way to go.

 

[Noah Abrams]

It used to be that supply and demand allowed people to have the American dream, a house with a white picket fence and a yard for BBQ a garden and a safe place for kids and a dog to play in.

But that didn’t fulfill them, as came the realization of the emptiness inside. Then came the affair. Then came the divorce lawyers

 

[Moonbeam]

This is just hysterical ranting at this point. You doing okay?

Just fine. You know I hope that I'm not afraid of being hysterical but that the reason you worry that I have become so is your own projected fear of feeling. I am sorry that you can't face the innate cruelty of your thinking here. I have the exact same problem when I touch that nerve in conservatives. I also sound quite hysterical to them. I simply believe that your answers to this property issue does not lie in the elimination of prop 13. That to do that would be cruel and inhumane despite your protestations to the contrary. And like you, I am prepared to defend my point of view vigorously. You have failed to convince me that your moral concerns on this issue are deeper than mine and I am thankful as hell I do not share your position. You are asking that people who have had benefits that keep them in their homes give them up and start over somewhere where else where their new lifestyle will be sufficiently less worthwhile as to be currently affordable. Your solution to the housing problem is the sardine can. That looks suspiciously like cat food to me.

 

[zerocool84]

The left is on a never ending quest of identifying people who they think have too much and trying to get it away from them.

And the right is on a never ending quest of taking everything from the ones that barely have anything and giving it to the ones that already have too much.

 

[MrSquished]

Just fine. You know I hope that I'm not afraid of being hysterical but that the reason you worry that I have become so is your own projected fear of feeling. I am sorry that you can't face the innate cruelty of your thinking here. I have the exact same problem when I touch that nerve in conservatives. I also sound quite hysterical to them. I simply believe that your answers to this property issue does not lie in the elimination of prop 13. That to do that would be cruel and inhumane despite your protestations to the contrary. And like you, I am prepared to defend my point of view vigorously. You have failed to convince me that your moral concerns on this issue are deeper than mine and I am thankful as hell I do not share your position. You are asking that people who have had benefits that keep them in their homes give them up and start over somewhere where else where their new lifestyle will be sufficiently less worthwhile as to be currently affordable. Your solution to the housing problem is the sardine can. That looks suspiciously like cat food to me.

I mean dude, your diction is fantastic and then you sum up with these great zingers. Like the one I have bolded. Just fun stuff to read, and often one I agree with to boot, which is also nice.

 

[Moonbeam]

You’re arguing against denser housing while complaining about high housing prices...which are the direct result of arguing against denser housing.

In high demand areas you can have sparse housing that only rich people can afford or you can have dense housing that everyone can afford. You have to pick one.

We have a shit pile of dense housing where I live. It costs a fortune. A lot of it is no kids allowed. We have to do something with those rich old fucks that can't afford their houses somewhere. At least a few lucky ones get to stay somewhat close to where they once lived.

But that didn’t fulfill them, as came the realization of the emptiness inside. Then came the affair. Then came the divorce lawyers

Except for those who have come to the realization of what the emptiness inside really is, the illusion of separation. There is nowhere to go, nothing to do, nothing to become. Dreams are what happens when you sleep. Love is what is when you awaken.

 

[Moonbeam]

I mean dude, your diction is fantastic and then you sum up with these great zingers. Like the one I have bolded. Just fun stuff to read, and often one I agree with to boot, which is also nice.

Dealing with fskimospy on a logical level is rather exhausting hard work, so I try at least to amuse myself in the process.

 

[Moonbeam]

It is in fact such a great state that it's on the verge of turning blue. It's going to really be even greater then. If only you had better weather I'd be tempted to come. I got's me a Texas accent when I want it that can sell Dodge Trucks.

 

[fskimospy]

We have a shit pile of dense housing where I live. It costs a fortune. A lot of it is no kids allowed. We have to do something with those rich old fucks that can't afford their houses somewhere. At least a few lucky ones get to stay somewhat close to where they once lived.

Except for those who have come to the realization of what the emptiness inside really is, the illusion of separation. There is nowhere to go, nothing to do, nothing to become. Dreams are what happens when you sleep. Love is what is when you awaken.

I suspect what you think is ‘dense housing’ and what I think is dense housing is very, very different. For example, San Francisco is currently less densely populated than Queens.

 

[fskimospy]

Speaking of fighting and winning your independence the evidence we have from, you know, our actual civil war where you fought to ensure people could be owned as property shows different. You lost that one by the way, haha.

We tried it Obummers way, we walked away with race relations at anall time low, poverty at an all time high, we tripled the amount of welfare recepiants, nutered the armed forces, destroyed realgious liberty, and increased the national debt 10 fold.

Race relations weren’t at an all time low, poverty wasn’t at an all time high, the armed forces were fine, and under Obama is was (bizarrely) ruled that religious people could exempt themselves from basically any law they want.

You’re living in a fantasy world.

 

[fskimospy]

Just fine. You know I hope that I'm not afraid of being hysterical but that the reason you worry that I have become so is your own projected fear of feeling. I am sorry that you can't face the innate cruelty of your thinking here. I have the exact same problem when I touch that nerve in conservatives. I also sound quite hysterical to them. I simply believe that your answers to this property issue does not lie in the elimination of prop 13. That to do that would be cruel and inhumane despite your protestations to the contrary. And like you, I am prepared to defend my point of view vigorously. You have failed to convince me that your moral concerns on this issue are deeper than mine and I am thankful as hell I do not share your position. You are asking that people who have had benefits that keep them in their homes give them up and start over somewhere where else where their new lifestyle will be sufficiently less worthwhile as to be currently affordable. Your solution to the housing problem is the sardine can. That looks suspiciously like cat food to me.

Nah, I think saying that because I no longer want poor people to subsidize rich people’s housing that I would find a way to kill all the Jews is hysterical, haha.

My solution to the housing problem is reality and there’s no escaping it. You can rant at me all you want but only rich people can afford to live around you now because of the bad choices you made and continue to defend. You can either own up to the mistake and fix it or you can keep calling people Nazis for pointing it out.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, I’m sure Texas surrendered and then was subjected to years of military occupation because they got bored, haha. People in the South thought the North was filled with soft people in 1860 too. How did that turn out for you?

If you are intended to be a parody account that makes conservatives look stupid you’re doing an excellent job, haha.

 

[MrSquished]

Yes, I’m sure Texas surrendered and then was subjected to years of military occupation because they got bored, haha. People in the South thought the North was filled with soft people in 1860 too. How did that turn out for you?

If you are intended to be a parody account that makes conservatives look stupid you’re doing an excellent job, haha.

Nah dude. That's a real honest to goodness conservative. I seen them on my Facebook! They believe that shit and way way worse. If they had a leader that would enslave black people and the gays, they would follow along blindly. This guy would do that, I promise you. These gun waving dipshits all have tiny dick syndrome with their guns too.

 

[JSt0rm]

how ignorant of you.

 

[JSt0rm]

how ignorant of you.

 

[Moonbeam]

I see you're not very adapt at speaking to mature adults. I think you should change your name to Tumbleweed or maybe Gabby Hayes.

 

[Moonbeam]

Nah, I think saying that because I no longer want poor people to subsidize rich people’s housing that I would find a way to kill all the Jews is hysterical, haha.

My solution to the housing problem is reality and there’s no escaping it. You can rant at me all you want but only rich people can afford to live around you now because of the bad choices you made and continue to defend. You can either own up to the mistake and fix it or you can keep calling people Nazis for pointing it out.

I think you can rant all you want too and it won't erase the taste that your use of turtling-up to dismiss old people wanting to say where they live is a crass form of demonetization utilized just like Germans demonized the Jews so they could excuse their immoral treatment of them. There is a difference in degree, but not in kind, and I have no problem at all pushing those limits to shake you out of your calculating indifference. Too much intellectualism and not enough heart isn't a good thing. Look at Einstein compared to Teller.

At any rate, I think the reality (not the one you think I should see but the one that will actually happen) is that Cal will reject prop 13 repeal. You don't want to beat your head in on the wall of human nature. Find a way that goes with it. Learn by expanding your understanding of a broader range of moral concerns. There are other solutions to this and many are being proposed and executed.

 

[ivwshane]

California has one of the lowest home ownership rates in the country. In part because of prop 13.

Is it because of prop 13? The article made no mention of that and I wonder if its lower than the national average can be attributed to its immigrant population. I also don't see how prop 13 could be responsible for lower than the national average in home ownership when it's clear that after its passage, home ownership was relatively stable.

Your article, while highlighting some issues, repeatedly said there wasn't enough data to draw conclusions.

 

[ivwshane]

Did you read the article I linked? It does exactly what you ask. Prop 13’s benefits accrue primarily to the wealthy and it’s costs accrue primarily to the poor and middle class as the revenues it cut were instead made up by regressive sales and use taxes. If prop 13 were repealed taxes would go up primarily on the rich and would go down on the middle class and poor, something you support.

The wealthy accruing most of the benefits is different than the wealthy being the main benefiter. Again, there are more poor and middle class home owners than there are wealthy home owners.

Do you support progressive taxation? Prop 13 is regressive.


No, logic would dictate that people decide where to live based on their needs and means instead of living somewhere because they get a huge tax break for it.

While that's true, I'm not sure what that has to do with my point about economic stability.


It would help that by removing the incentive for people to stay in larger houses they aren’t using. Every room that sits empty in effect raises the rents and costs for everyone else as that’s one more room off the market.

Incentivise? More like force people out of their home. In essence what you are asking for is more multi dweller housing as you are implying that rooms could be rented out. But I don't see how people downsizing does anything to help the cost of rent as you would simply be shuffling people around at that point.


As for them passing on the costs, that’s the exact same argument conservatives make against taxing businesses. Sure some of the cost will be passed on but not all. More importantly the poor and middle class are already paying that cost, just through regressive and unstable sales taxes, which could be lowered.

I will concede that the benefits landlords receive from prop 13 is a good reason to be against it. As you point out, the benefit the landlord receives through prop 13 is in no way passed on to renters. I wonder if its possible to either remove the benefit for landlords and instead tie the rate to current value at the time of the new rental agreement. This would incentivize the landlord to keep their tenants happy either via rent pricing that doesn't go up as much or as quickly as the market itself or by providing better living conditions? Another alternative would be to keep the current incentive for landlords but cap profit or tie the rent to the tax rate somehow.

I'm not sure why you call sales tax unstable considering its fluctuated at max of 2 percentage points. That's also ignoring that most food isn't taxed and the poor can and does get their food at a subsidized cost.

I agree. Prop 13 was listed as a cure to the effects of bad housing policy on poor and middle class people. Instead, it turned out to be a big tax cut for rich people and the rest got screwed.

That appears to be debatable as even your link can't draw any clear conclusions without more data.

For any liberal minded person prop 13 repeal should be a no-brainer. There’s a reason it was thought up and promoted by Republicans, it’s a tax cut for rich people.

Good thing I'm not liberal minded. I'll take any policy that can accomplish what it set out to do, regardless of its ideology, and in the case of prop 13 its goal was to stabilize property taxes. If you can come up with something that does just that while addressing the other issues you raised, I'll be right there with you.

 

[allisolm]

Well, someone might need treatment for their mental condition, but I don't think it's the homosexual population.

 

[ivwshane]

Lol! The guy who doesn't want gays perverting marriage supports the guy that was married three times and who cheated on everyone of his wives.


I'm guessing this poster is so insecure with his manhood that having gay people able to marry could lead to his gay tenancies to come out in public. Why else would anyone care about an act that has zero impact on them?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Seek help, you don't get to gun down other people because you think they're mentally ill.