?CAIR can go to Hell and they can take their 72 virgins with them.?

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The point is that the leadership of the YAF (a) Decided to make the entire topic something they would expose their membership to. (b) And the YAF could have picked a wide variety of speakers who could be equally entertaining while being balanced. And instead the YAF leadership raced right to the bottom and picked a jerk like Spencer. And Spencer will inflame rather than educate. The point is people like Spencer get paid to be an idiot and if we did not pay them they would slink back under their rock and quit stirring up dissension.

But we have to put the blame for this exactly where it belongs. On the YAF leadership. And the American people who would rather be given a simplistic explanation and won't bother to search for the truth. Sadly CAIR advocates censorship which will not work.

But the sad fact is, in the free marketplace of ideas, garbage is a best seller.

I'm not sure CAIR is advocating censorship, they are a private group asking another private group not to do something...censorship implies government actions.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Those verses have nothing to do with Jesus' love. He is calling out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees (the religious leaders of the time) who were making up their own rules in order to control the people under the guise of being a commandment of God, like honor killing in the middle east or paying for indulgences in christianity while neglecting things like charity or taking care of your neighbor.

And? Re-read what you just posted.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Jesus is clearly the speaker in verse 10.

You are showing me a brick that is part of the house and then proceed to describe the house by the brick alone, I am showing you the whole house and how the bricks fit and interact in the makeup of the house something that one can not do by looking at a brick by itself.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Those verses have nothing to do with Jesus' love. He is calling out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees (the religious leaders of the time) who were making up their own rules in order to control the people under the guise of being a commandment of God, like honor killing in the middle east or paying for indulgences in christianity while neglecting things like charity or taking care of your neighbor.

And? Re-read what you just posted.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Jesus is clearly the speaker in verse 10.

You are showing me a brick that is part of the house and then proceed to describe the house by the brick alone, I am showing you the whole house and how the bricks fit and interact in the makeup of the house something that one can not do by looking at a brick by itself.

No, you are using the fact that Jesus did, in fact, do many good things as a reason to blindly ignore all of his bad qualities.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It does seem like contemporary islamic radicals are, in fact, more closely following the preachings of Islam than their "moderate" compatriots. Whereas if Christians could all end up as mirror images of Jesus, the world would be better, if all Muslims ended up as mirrors of Muhammad, their ravages and thuggery would make it worse.

your opinion kthxbye

The writings, as self evidence, of the lives of Jesus and Muhammad are just opinion?

Or maybe you object to the ?opinion? of a savage Warlord being a negative term. The difference between us is only in the values we cherish. To each his own, but if you think highly of ravages and thuggery then I have nothing but contempt for you.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Those verses have nothing to do with Jesus' love. He is calling out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees (the religious leaders of the time) who were making up their own rules in order to control the people under the guise of being a commandment of God, like honor killing in the middle east or paying for indulgences in christianity while neglecting things like charity or taking care of your neighbor.

And? Re-read what you just posted.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Jesus is clearly the speaker in verse 10.

You are showing me a brick that is part of the house and then proceed to describe the house by the brick alone, I am showing you the whole house and how the bricks fit and interact in the makeup of the house something that one can not do by looking at a brick by itself.

No, you are using the fact that Jesus did, in fact, do many good things as a reason to blindly ignore all of his bad qualities.

And what bad things did he actually do that cause you to think he has what you call bad qualities?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
But a case can be made that Christians should kill Muslims based on our bible---

We evolved since the times when Christians last acted in such a manor. We're currently dealing with Muslims around the globe that wage holy war. Is that not an important difference to you?

The point being the people Spencer complain about are a tiny tiny minority of Islam.

So maybe the ?vast vast majority? should do something like CONDEMN their tiny tiny minority who wage holy war in their name of their religion. Do they not care about the defamation of their religion by the evil actions of their own, or is it because they view that ?tiny tiny minority? as fulfilling the ultimate goal of their religion?

The praising and celebrating of that ?tiny tiny minority? brings into question the vast majority.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Those verses have nothing to do with Jesus' love. He is calling out the hypocrisy of the Pharisees (the religious leaders of the time) who were making up their own rules in order to control the people under the guise of being a commandment of God, like honor killing in the middle east or paying for indulgences in christianity while neglecting things like charity or taking care of your neighbor.

And? Re-read what you just posted.

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Jesus is clearly the speaker in verse 10.

You are showing me a brick that is part of the house and then proceed to describe the house by the brick alone, I am showing you the whole house and how the bricks fit and interact in the makeup of the house something that one can not do by looking at a brick by itself.

No, you are using the fact that Jesus did, in fact, do many good things as a reason to blindly ignore all of his bad qualities.

And what bad things did he actually do that cause you to think he has what you call bad qualities?

I already posted them but I'll repeat them:
- "Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death" (self-explanatory)
- Approving of God's damning people to hell

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Lemon law
But a case can be made that Christians should kill Muslims based on our bible---

We evolved since the times when Christians last acted in such a manor. We're currently dealing with Muslims around the globe that wage holy war. Is that not an important difference to you?

Lemon law is pointing out how ridiculous it is to judge people by the words in their holy book. In fact you're supporting that idea, because as you point out, Christianity has evolved past the point of wanton religious violence, despite there being strong support for it in the Bible. Clearly people's behavior is not dictated by their holy books. If it can be true for Christians, why can't it be true for Muslims?

The point being the people Spencer complain about are a tiny tiny minority of Islam.

So maybe the ?vast vast majority? should do something like CONDEMN their tiny tiny minority who wage holy war in their name of their religion. Do they not care about the defamation of their religion by the evil actions of their own, or is it because they view that ?tiny tiny minority? as fulfilling the ultimate goal of their religion?

The praising and celebrating of that ?tiny tiny minority? brings into question the vast majority.

A lot of them DO condemn the violence, just because they don't show it on Fox News doesn't mean it's not happening. When was the last time you were in a moderate Mosque, or any Mosque at all? The fact is that violence has more appeal than moderates do to the news media and the public in general, and given that the average person (you included) has virtually NO contact with Muslims...our methods of judging what they are or aren't doing don't really seem like they'd reflect reality very well.

 

[XMan]

http://blip.tv/file/327931

Here's the speech. Maybe some of you guys who think badly of Spencer will actually listen to his words instead of spouting CAIR's talking points.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: 1prophet


And what bad things did he actually do that cause you to think he has what you call bad qualities?

I already posted them but I'll repeat them:
- "Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death" (self-explanatory)

Jesus said :
10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

Since they were claiming to be followers of Moses, Jesus was using their own words against them since it did not match their deeds. The verses below are from John 9 which describe the conversation between the man who was blind and Jesus healed and the Pharisees who claimed to be Moses' disciples and since he was healed without their consent I guess they considered it a bad quality.

John 9
28Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
29We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.

11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

Originally posted by: blackllotus

- Approving of God's damning people to hell

Who the hell did Jesus think He was to approve of God's damning people to hell knowing that mere mortals like ourselves would disapprove and consider it a bad quality.

Off to the Hague with God where blackllotus can sit and pass judgement on Him.:laugh:

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: blackllotus

- Approving of God's damning people to hell

Who the hell did Jesus think He was to approve of God's damning people to hell knowing that mere mortals like ourselves would disapprove and consider it a bad quality.

You totally missed the point. Do you approve of the idea of sentencing people to eternal torture for actions committed within [an approximately] 80 year life span?

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Off to the Hague with God where blackllotus can sit and pass judgement on Him.

Is it that ridiculous for me to be critical of your god?

 

[Braznor]

Spencer speaks the truth, folks.

The leftists and CAIR are in bed with each other. Neither shall leave unless you burn it with truth of the evil that is Islam and that was Muhammed.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: blackllotus

- Approving of God's damning people to hell

Who the hell did Jesus think He was to approve of God's damning people to hell knowing that mere mortals like ourselves would disapprove and consider it a bad quality.

You totally missed the point. Do you approve of the idea of sentencing people to eternal torture for actions committed within [an approximately] 80 year life span?

When I become God and can think like Him I will certainly look into the legalities of hell, until then I will approve or disapprove of only those things that can be proven to exist.

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Off to the Hague with God where blackllotus can sit and pass judgement on Him.

Originally posted by: blackllotus
Is it that ridiculous for me to be critical of your god?

Do you believe that god exists?

And don't worry you can be as critical as you want, I promise I won't try to sue you.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: XMan
http://blip.tv/file/327931

Here's the speech. Maybe some of you guys who think badly of Spencer will actually listen to his words instead of spouting CAIR's talking points.

Long on insinuations, short on facts. There is nothing insightful or intelligent about his comments, it's merely more name calling and "gotcha" political crap...it's like watching a bearded version of Bill O'Reilly. Witness the number of times both Spencer and the man who introduced him complain about "liberals", "mainstream media", etc, etc...it's the same old conservative schtick with a thin coating of intellectualism to appeal to the pseudo-intelligent groups like YAG.

 

[Braznor]

Islam cannot live in peace with itself. How do you expect it to live in peace with other faiths?

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Braznor
Islam cannot live in peace with itself. How do you expect it to live in peace with other faiths?

Talk about the pot calling the Kettle Black---Christianity has some of those same problems.

And seems to be invading and occupying at will---and now GWB wants to add Pakistan and Iran.

 

[Braznor]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Braznor
Islam cannot live in peace with itself. How do you expect it to live in peace with other faiths?

Talk about the pot calling the Kettle Black---Christianity has some of those same problems.

And seems to be invading and occupying at will---and now GWB wants to add Pakistan and Iran.

It is the nature of religions to divide men.

But in Islam's case, it does it very well, far better than Christianity!

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Braznor
Islam cannot live in peace with itself. How do you expect it to live in peace with other faiths?

Anthropomorphism doesn't suddenly become reasonable when applied to religion. Islam, or any other religion, does not DO or NOT DO anything, it's PEOPLE that have these behaviors and limitations.

 

[Braznor]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Braznor
Islam cannot live in peace with itself. How do you expect it to live in peace with other faiths?

Anthropomorphism doesn't suddenly become reasonable when applied to religion. Islam, or any other religion, does not DO or NOT DO anything, it's PEOPLE that have these behaviors and limitations.

Keep living in your delusions.

Anyway, Islam needs a severe reformation. I only hope the Indian and Indonesian muslims can lead a social revolution within the global ummah to delink politics from their faith.

The worst problem are the mullahs.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Braznor
Islam cannot live in peace with itself. How do you expect it to live in peace with other faiths?

Talk about the pot calling the Kettle Black---Christianity has some of those same problems.

And seems to be invading and occupying at will---and now GWB wants to add Pakistan and Iran.

Really? Would you care to point out "those same problems" that Christianity is having? Keep in mind we are talking about right now, 2007, not hundreds of years ago. Last time I checked, Christianity had nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq. Oh, and btw, did you already forget that Obama wants to "add Pakistan" too?

You're still falling back on your flawed argument I see. Just because the US is a majority Christian nation, it doesn't mean that everything we do is in the name of Christianity. Our soldiers aren't over in Iraq trying to convert anyone over to another religion....or is that why you think that we went over there?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Lemon law
But a case can be made that Christians should kill Muslims based on our bible---

We evolved since the times when Christians last acted in such a manor. We're currently dealing with Muslims around the globe that wage holy war. Is that not an important difference to you?

The point being the people Spencer complain about are a tiny tiny minority of Islam.

So maybe the ?vast vast majority? should do something like CONDEMN their tiny tiny minority who wage holy war in their name of their religion. Do they not care about the defamation of their religion by the evil actions of their own, or is it because they view that ?tiny tiny minority? as fulfilling the ultimate goal of their religion?

The praising and celebrating of that ?tiny tiny minority? brings into question the vast majority.

This is precisely what CAIR HAS done. And you, just like Spencer, conveniently choose to ignore that fact.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Braznor
Islam cannot live in peace with itself. How do you expect it to live in peace with other faiths?

Talk about the pot calling the Kettle Black---Christianity has some of those same problems.

And seems to be invading and occupying at will---and now GWB wants to add Pakistan and Iran.

Really? Would you care to point out "those same problems" that Christianity is having? Keep in mind we are talking about right now, 2007, not hundreds of years ago. Last time I checked, Christianity had nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq. Oh, and btw, did you already forget that Obama wants to "add Pakistan" too?

You're still falling back on your flawed argument I see. Just because the US is a majority Christian nation, it doesn't mean that everything we do is in the name of Christianity. Our soldiers aren't over in Iraq trying to convert anyone over to another religion....or is that why you think that we went over there?

Very well said.

The entire basis for his flawed argument is Bush himself being Christian. As usual, Lemon is FOS...

 

[Lemon law]

No Palehorse74,

You are the one either deluding yourself or FOS.

You are DEMANDING the Muslims remove 100% of their hate speech from the Koran and all their literature. Even if they don't act on any of it.

And the Christians have plenty of hate speech in the bible and the Christian literature that Christians refuse to remove or address. And its we who are by in large going over there kicking the butts of people who have done nothing because you can't find the real perps. And come to think of it Palehorse74, most of your posts and actions are more of that hate speech.---regardless if you admit its Christian or not.

But you can see their sins with crystal clarity while being blind to your own. Where I come from, that kinda makes you FOS.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
No Palehorse74,

You are the one either deluding yourself or FOS.

You are DEMANDING the Muslims remove 100% of their hate speech from the Koran and all their literature. Even if they don't act on any of it.

I am?! When the hell have I ever done or said that?!

Oh ya.. this is you making sh*t up again... got it.

And the Christians have plenty of hate speech in the bible and the Christian literature that Christians refuse to remove or address. And its we who are by in large going over there kicking the butts of people who have done nothing because you can't find the real perps. And come to think of it Palehorse74, most of your posts and actions are more of that hate speech.---regardless if you admit its Christian or not.

hate speech!? Even the Muslims here at P&N recognize that I'm one of the few who have very clearly gone out of my way to recognize the scale of the issue - fanatics being a very small minority. I've even tried to correct others here who wrongly paint all Muslims with the same brush.

LOL.. you're just plain crazy, aren't you?!

With regard to my personal religious beliefs, I'm a Deist, not a Christian. So "admitting it" would a bit silly now, wouldnt it?

get a frickin clue man. sheesh.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Braznor
Islam cannot live in peace with itself. How do you expect it to live in peace with other faiths?

Anthropomorphism doesn't suddenly become reasonable when applied to religion. Islam, or any other religion, does not DO or NOT DO anything, it's PEOPLE that have these behaviors and limitations.

PEOPLE are driven by ideology.