CA passes unloaded open carry ban

[Mr. Lennon]

I would like you to answer the question. The reasons for carrying haven't changed, only people's delusions of security.

An no, I'm not going to strap an unloaded pistol to my side, because I'm located in one of the 42 states that have open carry. Might I also add, we haven't seen any wild west scenarios play out in any states with such a legislation. Your emotional response means nothing to me, the truth is open carry doesn't create more crime

What you fail to understand is there are plenty of occupations where open carry is needed. Process servers, repomen, animal control, bail bondsmen, etc. Does everyone in these occupations carry? No. Should they be able to? Yes.

Just because YOU don't have a reason to carry doesn't mean no one else should be able to.

Yes, the reasons have not changed. But lets look at what's being taken away here. How is a unloaded weapon going to protect you? Every criminal knows that thing isn't loaded. Concealed carry seems like a infinitely better option if you truly cared about your safety.

All of those occupations you mentioned should be able to carry. They are in professions that put them at a higher risk of trouble than the average person. Unless your occupation has you dealing with undesirables, there isn't a reason to open carry.

When it comes down to it, the only ones that are delusional about their security are people like you.

I live in a city. Open carry has personally saved my property and potentially my life as well as the property and lives of my neighbors. I know dozens of other people that can say the same thing.

OTOH, I truly support your right to not only not open carry but to not own a firearm at all. Bad guys might not care about their victims lives but the vast majority of them have the same desire to not die as the rest of us. They have no desire to get into a confrontation in which they know that the other side is armed and reasonably believe that person will use it in his defense. This is especially true when there is a plethora of unarmed people for them to target instead.

Still, I would never open carry a weapon that the bad guys know is unloaded. Hell, I would never carry an unloaded weapon period.

Sounds like your idea of a "city" is the burbs. I'm talking about a random asshat open carrying in a area with lots of foot traffic. You can do whatever the hell you want on your property.

You either live in a terrible area or easily become paranoid when "strangers" are on your block. The fact that you know dozens of people that feel the same way as you do gives me the impression that it's the former. You should probably move if you are constantly on the look out for "bad" guys.

 

[werepossum]

Ericlp, you do realize this is how the powers that be get most of our ridiculous laws passed.

In many cases the people voting were never and would be never affected. People vote out of fear or the excise control over groups they don't see themselves in. Many vote knowing personally they won't follow the rules anyway.

It's fucked up.

QFT People of all stripes see no problem with limiting the freedom of others, as long as their own oxen remain ungored.

 

[Darwin333]

Yes, the reasons have not changed. But lets look at what's being taken away here. How is a unloaded weapon going to protect you? Every criminal knows that thing isn't loaded. Concealed carry seems like a infinitely better option if you truly cared about your safety.

All of those occupations you mentioned should be able to carry. They are in professions that put them at a higher risk of trouble than the average person. Unless your occupation has you dealing with undesirables, there isn't a reason to open carry.

When it comes down to it, the only ones that are delusional about their security are people like you.



Sounds like your idea of a "city" is the burbs. I'm talking about a random asshat open carrying in a area with lots of foot traffic. You can do whatever the hell you want on your property.

You either live in a terrible area or easily become paranoid when "strangers" are on your block. The fact that you know dozens of people that feel the same way as you do gives me the impression that it's the former. You should probably move if you are constantly on the look out for "bad" guys.

Hurricane Katrina, and yes we were constantly on the lookout for badguys because there where quite a few of them wondering freely and absolutely zero LEO to assist the good guys.

When the roving gangs of asshats came towards our neighborhood and saw men with long arms on the street corners they went the other way. Simple as that. We later found out that one of the groups went 6 blocks down and "relieved" quite a few people, who just happened to be unarmed, of their possessions and supplies. Their kids went without food and water for days. About half a mile from us some poor bastard was held at gunpoint and forced to watch 3 assholes take turns raping his wife, he was also unarmed.

Matter of fact, I don't personally know of anyone that was visibly armed that was forcibly harmed or stolen from in their presence (unless you count the NOPD illegally stealing peoples guns).

As I said earlier, the vast majority of bad guys have the same will and desire to survive as you and I do.

 

[Howard]

Fairy tale? I live in the real world man, where a police station is probably one of the safest places from someone with hostile intent.

Didn't you watch Terminator?

 

[Lithium381]

Hurricane Katrina, and yes we were constantly on the lookout for badguys because there where quite a few of them wondering freely and absolutely zero LEO to assist the good guys.

When the roving gangs of asshats came towards our neighborhood and saw men with long arms on the street corners they went the other way. Simple as that. We later found out that one of the groups went 6 blocks down and "relieved" quite a few people, who just happened to be unarmed, of their possessions and supplies. Their kids went without food and water for days. About half a mile from us some poor bastard was held at gunpoint and forced to watch 3 assholes take turns raping his wife, he was also unarmed.

Matter of fact, I don't personally know of anyone that was visibly armed that was forcibly harmed or stolen from in their presence (unless you count the NOPD illegally stealing peoples guns).

As I said earlier, the vast majority of bad guys have the same will and desire to survive as you and I do.

And the polititians only want the criminals to have guns...... i don't know how they can ignore the argument that criminals *gasp*, IGNORE THE LAWS!! So all of these restrictions only go to put the public at the mercy of the criminals. FFS people, think

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Hurricane Katrina, and yes we were constantly on the lookout for badguys because there where quite a few of them wondering freely and absolutely zero LEO to assist the good guys.

When the roving gangs of asshats came towards our neighborhood and saw men with long arms on the street corners they went the other way. Simple as that. We later found out that one of the groups went 6 blocks down and "relieved" quite a few people, who just happened to be unarmed, of their possessions and supplies. Their kids went without food and water for days. About half a mile from us some poor bastard was held at gunpoint and forced to watch 3 assholes take turns raping his wife, he was also unarmed.

Matter of fact, I don't personally know of anyone that was visibly armed that was forcibly harmed or stolen from in their presence (unless you count the NOPD illegally stealing peoples guns).

As I said earlier, the vast majority of bad guys have the same will and desire to survive as you and I do.

The way you and your neighbors protected your homes is exactly what I would do in that situation. Like I said before, open carrying on your property is a whole different issue than doing it in public. All I'm saying is that there is just no point for the latter...especially because you can't even have the weapon loaded.

 

[FDF12389]

Sorry, this isn't the 1800s anymore. There is absolutely no reason to openy carry your weapon in public.

What reasons did an individual have in 1800s to carry a gun? And how do they no longer apply today?

I shouldn't have to tell you why a individual had to carry a gun back then.

I would like you to answer the question. The reasons for carrying haven't changed, only people's delusions of security.

Yes, the reasons have not changed. But {SNIP}

^Very nice.^

Sorry, this isn't the 1800s anymore. There is absolutely no reason to openy carry your weapon in public.

All of those occupations you mentioned should be able to carry. They are in professions that put them at a higher risk of trouble than the average person.

Either you are ok with open carry or not. Open carry gives these professions the right to carry. Without open carry they cannot. It's not complicated.

All of those occupations you mentioned should be able to carry. They are in professions that put them at a higher risk of trouble than the average person.

My first reaction would be to call 911 if I saw that shit.

Again, which is it?

 

[Darwin333]

The way you and your neighbors protected your homes is exactly what I would do in that situation. Like I said before, open carrying on your property is a whole different issue than doing it in public. All I'm saying is that there is just no point for the latter...especially because you can't even have the weapon loaded.

But we were very much in public (street corners) as well as when we traveled. I didn't go anywhere without a shotgun slung over my shoulder and my .40 unconcealed on my hip.

Should the same situation happen in Cali, like a major earthquake in a very large population center, it would be illegal to do what we did to successfully protect ourselves and our neighbors.

I do, and have in this thread, agree that I would never open carry an unloaded weapon and that goes 100 fold when the bad guys can reasonably assume that it is unloaded because the law dictates it must be.

My main point is that these gun laws serve only to hurt law abiding citizens. They do absolutely nothing to help them.

 

[Darwin333]

And the polititians only want the criminals to have guns...... i don't know how they can ignore the argument that criminals *gasp*, IGNORE THE LAWS!! So all of these restrictions only go to put the public at the mercy of the criminals. FFS people, think

You can sort of understand their rationale at first. That is until you look at the mountains of evidence from the last decade or two that goes against pretty much every single argument they make.

 

[werepossum]

Hurricane Katrina, and yes we were constantly on the lookout for badguys because there where quite a few of them wondering freely and absolutely zero LEO to assist the good guys.

When the roving gangs of asshats came towards our neighborhood and saw men with long arms on the street corners they went the other way. Simple as that. We later found out that one of the groups went 6 blocks down and "relieved" quite a few people, who just happened to be unarmed, of their possessions and supplies. Their kids went without food and water for days. About half a mile from us some poor bastard was held at gunpoint and forced to watch 3 assholes take turns raping his wife, he was also unarmed.

Matter of fact, I don't personally know of anyone that was visibly armed that was forcibly harmed or stolen from in their presence (unless you count the NOPD illegally stealing peoples guns).

As I said earlier, the vast majority of bad guys have the same will and desire to survive as you and I do.

Agreed. All predators go after the easy prey where it's available. To a gang of twenty animals carrying clubs a lone man or woman with a bat is still easy prey, but a man or woman with a gun, even if the gang is armed, is not.

And the polititians only want the criminals to have guns...... i don't know how they can ignore the argument that criminals *gasp*, IGNORE THE LAWS!! So all of these restrictions only go to put the public at the mercy of the criminals. FFS people, think

To be fair I don't progressives want criminals to have guns, or that they are unaware that criminals will refuse to obey gun laws. Progressives simply don't value your life, possessions or safety over that of human animals. Better that you be robbed or your wife gang raped than that you kill someone. And if you kill someone who would have killed you, there's no net benefit to the group either way. Consider a serial rapist who picks the wrong victim and ends up DRT. A conservative thinks "good riddance and good for her, she protected herself." But a progressive thinks feels "How horrible, she murdered that man when all he wanted to do was rape her. She should have selected an action that did not cost a human being his life."

 

[irishScott]

Agreed. All predators go after the easy prey where it's available. To a gang of twenty animals carrying clubs a lone man or woman with a bat is still easy prey, but a man or woman with a gun, even if the gang is armed, is not.


To be fair I don't progressives want criminals to have guns, or that they are unaware that criminals will refuse to obey gun laws. Progressives simply don't value your life, possessions or safety over that of human animals. Better that you be robbed or your wife gang raped than that you kill someone. And if you kill someone who would have killed you, there's no net benefit to the group either way. Consider a serial rapist who picks the wrong victim and ends up DRT. A conservative thinks "good riddance and good for her, she protected herself." But a progressive thinks feels "How horrible, she murdered that man when all he wanted to do was rape her. She should have selected an action that did not cost a human being his life."

And the funny thing is, there are plenty of stories of progressives converting when they accidentally get a touch of reality (robbed, kidnapped, etc). You almost never hear of it going the other way. Wonder why that is...

 

[GoPackGo]

Did crime in California disappear today? Are all the children safe?

 

[schneiderguy]

Did crime in California disappear today? Are all the children safe?

Of course not, the unloaded open carry ban doesn't take effect till January 1st

 

[werepossum]

And the funny thing is, there are plenty of stories of progressives converting when they accidentally get a touch of reality (robbed, kidnapped, etc). You almost never hear of it going the other way. Wonder why that is...

The corollary to "A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged" is "A liberal is a conservative who has been arrested." But admittedly that's more rare.

 

[werepossum]

Of course not, the unloaded open carry ban doesn't take effect till January 1st

Ah, January 1st, that blessed date when we'll be protected from having to look at unloaded guns and criminals won't have to wonder just how law abiding you are.

Progressives have not only protected us against being able to defend ourselves, now they've even been able to protect us against being able to project the illusion of being able to defend ourselves. Perhaps soon they can pass a law requiring us to carry our valuables openly displayed so that criminals don't have to endanger themselves by robbing those who aren't worth their time.

 

[Howard]

So what happens to the people who open-carry loaded?

Anybody can answer this?

 

[spidey07]

Anybody can answer this?

I would guess they would get arrested. AFAIK open carry isn't allowed in CA (unless it was unloaded).

 

[Howard]

I would guess they would get arrested. AFAIK open carry isn't allowed in CA (unless it was unloaded).

Right, that was in the OP (I can't read).

Well, sucks to be a gun owner in Cali then.

 

[iGas]

If you do something unlawful with it (like point it at someone or do something stupid), the cops can check and if it's loaded there are consequences for your actions. Thus, people who don't do anything stupid can carry and those who do stupid things can't. That's much smarter than just banning it for all such that the criminal will do it anyway and the law abiding citizen has their rights abridged.

What is the purpose of carrying an expose gun other than to intimidate/wave it in front of others or as penis extension?

 

[spidey07]

What is the purpose of carrying an expose gun other than to intimidate/wave it in front of others or as penis extension?

Much quicker to draw and get on target than concealed. There are plenty of tactical reasons as well as visual deterrent.

/cue the "but criminals are going to go after the guy open carrying first!" Yeah, go after the guy you KNOW can kill you if you do. Makes perfect sense.

 

[iGas]

Most places define "unloaded" as not having the magazine in the weapon. Even if the magazine is without a single round, the weapon can be considered "loaded" with the magazine in place. Then it is very easy to tell a "loaded" from "unloaded" weapon.

I support California in this measure. The more anti-gun they are, the more pro-criminal they become. Its a self defeating law. Soon, as was the case in Chicago, criminals will run rampant knowing how easy it is to take advantage of an unarmed populous. WTG California, Darwin would be proud.

Also, anyone who freaks out at the sight of a gun, loaded or unloaded, really needs to get their head examined. Do you do the same thing when you walk into a kitchen and see all the knives laying around? Didn't think so.

The criminals would treat everyone more carefully, because their targets could have CCW and are packing heat.

 

[irishScott]

The NRA's take on the California situation. They will be litigating for shall-issue concealed carry. Apparently it's not all bad news though, governor signed a few pro-gun bills as well and in one case openly stated that he wanted the NRAs litigation (on another issue) to stand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32wfcUODT_0&feature=feedu

 

[Darwin333]

Anybody can answer this?

They would be, as far as the law is concerned, criminals.

 

[arcenite]

I bet HAL was behind this

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Fairy tale? I live in the real world man, where a police station is probably one of the safest places from someone with hostile intent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc0UGhPXmD0

P.S. In my own anecdotal experience at the Ingleside station in SF there is a armored plexiglass exhibit that displays the effects of a shotgun blast from a perp who walked in and shot at them one night during the 80's.

The NRA's take on the California situation. They will be litigating for shall-issue concealed carry. Apparently it's not all bad news though, governor signed a few pro-gun bills as well and in one case openly stated that he wanted the NRAs litigation to stand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32wfcUODT_0&feature=feedu

Best news so far and as I predicted. "Shall Issue" FTW !!!