C&D: $35,000 Sports Sedans

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Mill
Without reading this thread I predict Skoorb said something about the 325 being dog slow. Now I only made this prediction because I saw he was the last person to reply to the thread when I was surfing OT. I'll read it later to see if he actually said it or not.

I don't believe you didn't read at least my post saying how it was a dog slow pos Be honest!

Nah I really figured you would say that. I read the article earlier today, and when I saw they used the 325 instead of the 330 I knew you would cuss it out. I should have posted then instead of waiting...

At least they didn't use the slow version of the A4

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Mill
Without reading this thread I predict Skoorb said something about the 325 being dog slow. Now I only made this prediction because I saw he was the last person to reply to the thread when I was surfing OT. I'll read it later to see if he actually said it or not.

I don't believe you didn't read at least my post saying how it was a dog slow pos Be honest!

Nah I really figured you would say that. I read the article earlier today, and when I saw they used the 325 instead of the 330 I knew you would cuss it out. I should have posted then instead of waiting...

At least they didn't use the slow version of the A4

Or the "old" slow Version of the Max. Oh wait, it wasn't in the comparo. :evil: Sorry I couldn't help it...

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Mill

Or the "old" slow Version of the Max. Oh wait, it wasn't in the comparo. :evil: Sorry I couldn't help it...

And yet it STILL bests the 325 in the quarter

 

[CtK]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Mill
Without reading this thread I predict Skoorb said something about the 325 being dog slow. Now I only made this prediction because I saw he was the last person to reply to the thread when I was surfing OT. I'll read it later to see if he actually said it or not.

I don't believe you didn't read at least my post saying how it was a dog slow pos Be honest!

Nah I really figured you would say that. I read the article earlier today, and when I saw they used the 325 instead of the 330 I knew you would cuss it out. I should have posted then instead of waiting...

At least they didn't use the slow version of the A4

dont u think its still amazing how the 325i has the least amount of horsepower but still ranked in the middle pack in performance??

it was faster than the a4!!! and it has 36 more HP and 46 more torque!!! by .5 seconds!!
and the BMW is the oldest model in the comparo!!

Skoorb u have to give BMW props for getting that much performance out of that engine!!!!!

 

[JoeMomma]

Arguing with 15 year olds on the internet about cars they can't afford is pointless.

The 3-series BMW hasn't been be the benchmark of the class for the last 10+ years for no reason. It's innovation vs. imitation. All-around goodness vs. one trick pony.

Now go drive whatever makes you happy!

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: JoeMomma
Now go drive whatever makes you happy!

And that should end hte debate right there!

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: JoeMomma
Now go drive whatever makes you happy!

And that should end hte debate right there!

ding, ding, ding!

winnar!

glad to see someone who has figured it out.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
hmm why arent they testing the 330?? the 330 will blow the rest out of the water... I got my 330ci for about 35k ++ (and I am also in CA)

Maybe because it's pretty obvious the BMW will absolutely trounce those other two. Why bother comparing them?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: JoeMomma
Arguing with 15 year olds on the internet about cars they can't afford is pointless.

The 3-series BMW hasn't been be the benchmark of the class for the last 10+ years for no reason. It's innovation vs. imitation. All-around goodness vs. one trick pony.

Now go drive whatever makes you happy!

All around goodness = G35. Well, once they get the interior improved.
BMW = all around except the power goodness
It will be much easier for Infiniti to improve G35 interior than it will be for BMW to increase the displacement of their inline 6.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

It will be much easier for Infiniti to improve G35 interior than it will be for BMW to increase the displacement of their inline 6.

bored & stroked :Q

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: SuperTool

It will be much easier for Infiniti to improve G35 interior than it will be for BMW to increase the displacement of their inline 6.

bored & stroked :Q

bored, but not stroked...
Oh wait, we are talking about engines?

 

[blstriker]

Before I begin, let me say I'm a big fan of the bmw 330i. My biggest problem with it is that the interior isn't nearly as nice as the g35 or TL,

For those of you who say that a 330i would smoke all the competition there, think again. Take a look at this Motor Trend TV video where they compare the g35 to the 300i and the cadillac cts. The g35 wins in all the categories. Now, granted, the video is on the infiniti website, but the review is from motor trend.

Link: http://www.infiniti.com/content/model/ModelGallery/0,,30648,00.html

The reason the 330i was left out is that it cost quite a bit more than 35 grand loaded. Even if it was included, I don't think it would win the comparison.

For me, having driving all of the cars, I would pick the TL (even though it is fwd). The interior is way nicer than the bmw's and even the g35. The g35 coupe exterior looks good, but the sedan outside sucks. Also, the interior of the g35 is not appealing to me.

That's just my 2 cents...

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

That is M3 territory. Nissan can go places with its V6 where BMW's I6 can't follow.

I must have missed something... Nissan is going somewhere with it's v6 that BMW's I6 can't follow... and yet their v6 is just now getting into BMW's i6 333hp territory? Explain this to me...

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: SuperTool

That is M3 territory. Nissan can go places with its V6 where BMW's I6 can't follow.

I must have missed something... Nissan is going somewhere with it's v6 that BMW's I6 can't follow... and yet their v6 is just now getting into BMW's i6 333hp territory? Explain this to me...

Is the M3 I6 the base engine on the 3 series? The VQ is the base engine on the G35.
It already has more torque than the M3. Obviously the M3 revs to 8000rpm vs 6500 so it has an HP edge, but it costs almost 2x as much.
The cheapest way to offer more power is to increse the bore diameter. Because V6 has half the number of cylinders per bank of I6, the length of the engine will grow half as fast.
That means BMW will run out of room to grow long before Nissan does, and will have to use more expensive tricks to match the horsepower, like the M3, and won't be able to match the torque. Because BMW purists want non-turbo Inline 6's, they'll just have to accept mainstream BMW I6's being underpowered wrt to the competition.

 

[LordUnum]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: SuperTool

That is M3 territory. Nissan can go places with its V6 where BMW's I6 can't follow.

I must have missed something... Nissan is going somewhere with it's v6 that BMW's I6 can't follow... and yet their v6 is just now getting into BMW's i6 333hp territory? Explain this to me...

Is the M3 I6 the base engine on the 3 series? The VQ is the base engine on the G35.
It already has more torque than the M3. Obviously the M3 revs to 8000rpm vs 6500 so it has an HP edge, but it costs almost 2x as much.
The cheapest way to offer more power is to increse the bore diameter. Because V6 has half the number of cylinders per bank of I6, the length of the engine will grow half as fast.
That means BMW will run out of room to grow long before Nissan does, and will have to use more expensive tricks to match the horsepower, like the M3, and won't be able to match the torque. Because BMW purists want non-turbo Inline 6's, they'll just have to accept mainstream BMW I6's being underpowered wrt to the competition.

I love magazine racers. (more HP = obviously better car)

Going by that argument...

You do know the new M3/4 will be paired with a V8 and the M5/6 will receive a V10, right? That means 400 naturally-aspirated horses in the M3/4 and 500-550 (speculative) horses in the M5/6. All due sometime in 2005 more than likely. The result?

Nissan - Dusted!

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: LordUnum

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: SuperTool

That is M3 territory. Nissan can go places with its V6 where BMW's I6 can't follow.

I must have missed something... Nissan is going somewhere with it's v6 that BMW's I6 can't follow... and yet their v6 is just now getting into BMW's i6 333hp territory? Explain this to me...

Is the M3 I6 the base engine on the 3 series? The VQ is the base engine on the G35.
It already has more torque than the M3. Obviously the M3 revs to 8000rpm vs 6500 so it has an HP edge, but it costs almost 2x as much.
The cheapest way to offer more power is to increse the bore diameter. Because V6 has half the number of cylinders per bank of I6, the length of the engine will grow half as fast.
That means BMW will run out of room to grow long before Nissan does, and will have to use more expensive tricks to match the horsepower, like the M3, and won't be able to match the torque. Because BMW purists want non-turbo Inline 6's, they'll just have to accept mainstream BMW I6's being underpowered wrt to the competition.

I love magazine racers. (more HP = obviously better car)

Going by that argument...

You do know the new M3/4 will be paired with a V8 and the M5/6 will receive a V10, right? That means 400 naturally-aspirated horses in the M3/4 and 500-550 (speculative) horses in the M5/6. All due sometime in 2005 more than likely. The result?

Nissan - Dusted!

I didn't say more horsepower means better car. I said that purists who want non-turbo inline 6's will just have to accept being underpowered compared to V6's of similar price, simply because it's hard to grow displacement in I6 without running out of length. That is a fact. You can decide if it's important or not for yourself.
As far as Nissan getting dusted by BMW, not very likely. It's not like Nissan has doesn't have a V8. Also, if BMW has to resort to a V8 to stay competitive with Nissan's V6's on power, it will not be competitive on price. Also, unlike BMW fans who like NA engines, Nissan fans will be very happy to take delivery of a turbocharged 6 banger that will blow the doors off the bimmer.

 

[Nebor]

I'm a big believer in BMWs being finely tuned works of art. They don't need superchargers or turbochargers, those are cheap. They use engineering to get their horsepower, and that's a beautiful thing. While I'm a big fan of the current m3, and I think it'll be quite a while before Asia can match it's performance, I can understand the need to move to the 5.0l v8.

Oh, and that forced induction v6 had better be some kinda beast if it hopes to keep up with an m3 sized car with 400 bavarian ponies. You do know that bavarian ponies pull harder, right?

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Oh, and that forced induction v6 had better be some kinda beast if it hopes to keep up with an m3 sized car with 400 bavarian ponies. You do know that bavarian ponies pull harder, right?

I don't know about the models that have nosebleed prices, but the E46 330/325s i've seen at my local track don't exactly post jaw dropping times (~15.8/~16.3).

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Nebor
I'm a big believer in BMWs being finely tuned works of art. They don't need superchargers or turbochargers, those are cheap. They use engineering to get their horsepower, and that's a beautiful thing. While I'm a big fan of the current m3, and I think it'll be quite a while before Asia can match it's performance, I can understand the need to move to the 5.0l v8.

Oh, and that forced induction v6 had better be some kinda beast if it hopes to keep up with an m3 sized car with 400 bavarian ponies. You do know that bavarian ponies pull harder, right?

http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=1029
Scroll down to where it says:
"Nissan Motorsports (NISMO) now offers a "crate" VQ35 engine (350Z) that produces 450 horsepower. Each crate engine is laboriously handcrafted in Nissan's Tokyo facility, and each part within this engine is available from Nissan dealers in Japan. The VQ sports 13.5:1 compression and uses a Pectel T6 ECM for fuel and spark control. What kills us is that this thing uses stock cylinder head castings!"

I am not denying that Bimmer engines are good, but the VQ was not just accidentally put on Ward's 10 best list every year either.
You can call turbochargers cheap too, but RB26DETT can handle over 1000 hp in a small I6. So it's not just adding the turbo, it's the the design of the engine as well, and Nissan has the know-how. But the point I am making is that for a given price, Infiniti will always offer more power than BMW. So M3 may very well beat the G35, but on because it costs almost 2x as much.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=1029
Scroll down to where it says:
"Nissan Motorsports (NISMO) now offers a "crate" VQ35 engine (350Z) that produces 450 horsepower. Each crate engine is laboriously handcrafted in Nissan's Tokyo facility, and each part within this engine is available from Nissan dealers in Japan. The VQ sports 13.5:1 compression and uses a Pectel T6 ECM for fuel and spark control. What kills us is that this thing uses stock cylinder head castings!"

I am not denying that Bimmer engines are good, but the VQ was not just accidentally put on Ward's 10 best list every year either.
You can call turbochargers cheap too, but RB26DETT can handle over 1000 hp in a small I6. So it's not just adding the turbo, it's the the design of the engine as well, and Nissan has the know-how. But the point I am making is that for a given price, Infiniti will always offer more power than BMW. So M3 may very well beat the G35, but on because it costs almost 2x as much.

Crate motors are awesome. Supposedly honda is gonna have a k series crate motor soon, which will bolt right into my accord.

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: mAdD INDIAN

Originally posted by: JoeMomma
Now go drive whatever makes you happy!

And that should end hte debate right there!

ding, ding, ding!

winnar!

glad to see someone who has figured it out.

The problem is you could be a total moron and driving a POS that you paid too much for and then you'll just do it over and over never knowing what a total tard you are unless we point it out here.

 

[JoeMomma]

But the point I am making is that for a given price, Infiniti will always offer more power than BMW.

And you can get a bigger steak for less money at Ponderosa than at Ruth's Chris. Does that mean Ponderosa is "better"? Maybe to some people. Which is fine.

Different people like different things, that's why there are choices in the marketplace. And there are fanboys for every marque.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: JoeMomma

But the point I am making is that for a given price, Infiniti will always offer more power than BMW.

And you can get a bigger steak for less money at Ponderosa than at Ruth's Chris. Does that mean Ponderosa is "better"? Maybe to some people. Which is fine. Different people like different things, that's why there are choices in the marketplace. And there are fanboys for every marque.

I'd rather eat creamed corn than Ponderosa steak....seriously.

That should tell you which one of these cars I would take and I suspect it's the same one you would.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: JoeMomma

But the point I am making is that for a given price, Infiniti will always offer more power than BMW.

And you can get a bigger steak for less money at Ponderosa than at Ruth's Chris. Does that mean Ponderosa is "better"? Maybe to some people. Which is fine.

Different people like different things, that's why there are choices in the marketplace. And there are fanboys for every marque.

And I agree. I said Bimmers will have less power at a given price. I didn't say they are better or worse. That's a personal decision. It's like Passat vs Altima. There are things aside from horsepower that may make people preffer the Passat, but only a fool would argue that Passat offers more power at a given pricepoint than the Altima.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
mm.. i like the TL. I like the Bemer too, but my friend has a 325i, and he says it isn't peppy at all. He complains that he shoulda got the 330, but the price difference was pretty big.

I luv the G35's, but, to me, looks wise, the G35 SEDAN fails. the Coupe looks like a Zillion times better, i can't believe it would even be the same design team.

In any case, overall, i'd say the TL is best because it is peppy, and it looks good.

I guess you're used to the FWD.

RWD is damn near a waste of time if you have no horsepower. Would you take a 120 horsepower 4000 lb car over a 280 horsepower 2600 lb car, simply because it had RWD? I'd take that BMW with FWD if it meant it had enough power to actually accelerate!

Is the RWD in the G35 a waste? I don't see how you can say it's ugly.. It's not the best looking car, but it doesn't look any worse than the coupe.

As for my car being slow.. well yeah it's slow. Since when does that make it not a sports car? I'll be damned if a 66-33FR, FWD Civic is more of a sports car than my 240sx, a Miata, or one of them old British roadsters. Besides, remember, it was made in 1994. The iconic Z of that era only had 200hp (or was it 190?).

The G35 coupe is beautiful. The sedan is fugly.