BX board that support 1/3 AGP multiplier

LXi · Jan 1, 2001

<>

You little person just dont know when to stop do you? Here, Soltek and Transcend i815E boards both offer 1MHz increment. Yes I made a mistake, Epox isnt one of them. But I met your challenge, now you have to eat your shoe.

<<My point is people shouldn't choose hardware basing on useless features.>>

Official 133MHz support, official PC133 RAM support, asymetrical RAM/FSB bus speeds, ATA66/100... I wouldnt call those "useless".

<<You are the few arrogant self-centered Americans I met here. Luckily the majority here are very friendly and helpful. Hong Kong has never been a country and I don't care about the status. It is a happy place to live in and I'm more than satisfied.>>

For you information, Im a Chinese, I dont know how you can possibly conclude that Im an American even after I said it.

<<Glad that you can name a few PRC cities.>>

I can name all PRC major cities, can you? I grown up in Guangzhou and I speak fluent Mandarin and Cantonese. Please dont accosiate me with Americans.

<<But do u know they CAN'T import hardware directly from ROC Taiwan? Do you know all goods from Taiwan have to re-import from a 3rd region (like Hong Kong) before going to PRC China? All Taiwanese hardware selling in mainland China have complicated transportation/shipping cost so tell me how can they sell cheaper in China?
LOL. Do a research b4 talking from your ass. Obviously you know NOTHING about the China's politics.>>

Apparently you have no clue about China's current policies. Led by Deng Xiaoping's "open to outside" philosophy, China's economy has changed greatly over the past 10 years. Chinese government encourage outside investors into China, they created many new policies for Taiwan and foreign countries to directly import goods into China without the need of 3rd regions like Hong Kong, we have free trade policies in limited areas of China.

<<I dunno if they have stopped making BX mobo, but BX mobo from Abit, Asus, Epox, MSI, Soltek, Aopen, Gigabyte, Biostar and Tekram are still easily available here. I agree that omeday BX mobo production will be stopped but this is simply a business decision.>>

Abit and MSI BX boards have been pulled from Fry's Electronics(a retail store in the US), and their rising prices is a sign of high demand, since they lowered and/or stopped BX board production.

<<Ouch, right but aren't u running your 600E at 800? This is out of spec as well so downclock it now.>>

Im running at a perfect 133MHz, with 66MHz AGP and 33MHz PCI, nothing out of spec. If I run this same setup with a BX, everything will be out of spec. Is this so hard for you to comprehend?

<<LOL. Yes I must be incompetent enough to change WPCREDIT settings one by one on some Apollo Pro mobo only to see some BSOD and random freezing. I must be incompetent enough to install 4-in-1 driver after a fresh W98SE install only to find burner isn't working anymore. I must be incompetent enough to try a number of 4-in-1 drivers only to find the problems didn't go away either. I must be incompletent enough to choose a high quality Aopen mobo.>>

Crap behind the keyboard, what else can I say?

<<At last I solved the burner problem. Solution is simple, REMOVE VIA 4-in-1 driver and let Win98SE handles the busmastering . Since then I lose my faith on VIA forever.>>

The 4-in-1s automatically leave out the busmastering driver, I dont know what you did with it. Losing confidence because of such an insignificant thing is plain stupid.

<<"KX133" has forever vanished from your memory? Do u know there is a timing issue with slocket CPU on 694x? Ever heard of 694Z? You obviously know bitching better than hardware.>>

Not as good as you at bitching. KX133 has vanished because the overwhelming KT133 sucess, KX133 boards are no longer produced, and they're very hard to find these days. I never heard of any timing issue with slocket CPUs on 694X, I've ran several different slockets on my P3V4X without problems. Yes I have heard of 694Z, its the same as 694X but with a different pin count.

<<It takes time to see how it doing as a highend server/workstation mobo. I do know that in my profession few administrators any advocate non-Intel solution for business/corporate use, esp in mission critical role like servers. It is something I'd like to change but so far I've to be careful towards VIA.>>

Many facts were reflected by Anand's and HardOCP's 694D review, if there is any not mature about them, Im pretty damn sure they've solved the problems in this 6 month period.

<>

Im going to give you a taste of your own medicine, "dont throw 693/694 at me when we're talking about 694D".

AndyHui · Jan 1, 2001

LXi:

I'd have to say you're pathetic to laugh at your friends. Instead of helping them, you laugh at them, typical HongKong man in my experience

Come on....now I find that insulting too, and I would have thought you would be above this sort of thing. I haven't racked up over 3300 posts simply by laughing at people have I? I'm sure that we can all discuss this without having to insult each other over place of origin/residence or typical behaviour.

I feel ashamed to be accosiated with people like you as a Chinese

All three of us, ahfung, you LXi, and me, are Chinese. Are you ashamed to be associated with me?

As far as I know, and I have checked, China still CANNOT import directly from Taiwan. Did you see that big news story this morning about the first ship to sail directly from Taiwan to China?

Its a fact that manufacturers have stopped making BX boards, and are focusing FULLY on i815 and VIA solutions. You can't deny that.

ASUS is still churning out BX boards, with the new CUBX-E and CUBX-L, both of which are readily and VERY WIDELY available here in Hong Kong.

Ouch, right but aren't u running your 600E at 800? This is out of spec as well so downclock it now

I believe that ahfung is referring to the fact that the processor itself is running out of spec.

LXi · Jan 1, 2001

<<Come on....now I find that insulting too, and I would have thought you would be above this sort of thing. I haven't racked up over 3300 posts simply by laughing at people have I? I'm sure that we can all discuss this without having to insult each other over place of origin/residence or typical behaviour.>>

I apologise for my comments, I was too fired up and find my self ashame to associate with people like ahfung as Chinese people.

<<As far as I know, and I have checked, China still CANNOT import directly from Taiwan. Did you see that big news story this morning about the first ship to sail directly from Taiwan to China?>>

China does allow Taiwan manufacturers to open factories in Chinese mainland, creating more jobs and benefitting both sides. Who knows but a lot of those motherboards can be assembled in Chinese factories. The thing is China is a lot more open than they were, I can't consider HK as a 3rd region since they're officially part of China now. This is getting further and further away from the topic, we were talking about prices of motherboards, and Ill repeat again that prices in China are in line with what I said.

<<ASUS is still churning out BX boards, with the new CUBX-E and CUBX-L, both of which are readily and VERY WIDELY available here in Hong Kong.>>

Many other manufacturers have already stopped. And it doesnt change the fact that their main focus is i815 and VIA.

<>

My point is my peripherals are not running out of spec.

AndyHui · Jan 1, 2001

Sorry LXi, I have added to my original post. Would you please address the issues?

Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Region operating under the 'One Country Two Systems' Scheme. From that title it appears that it considers itself still somewhat separate from China; Hong Kong also fielded its own separate Olympics team.

Although manufacturing from Taiwanese corporations takes place in China, again, direct imports still cannot occur. In all cases, these Taiwanese corporations cannot operate on their own, and must for a joint venture with a mainland Chinese company in order to proceed.

I will have to agree that motherboard prices on the mainland can be much cheaper than in Hong Kong, but what brand are they? IWill? Milky Way? Eagle? I find that prices can be similar, or they can be cheaper in either place.

Taz4158 · Jan 1, 2001

<< I'd have to say you're pathetic to laugh at your friends. Instead of helping them, you laugh at them, typical HongKong man in my epxerience >>

Wow. This statement is completely uncalled for.

LXi · Jan 1, 2001

<<Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Region operating under the 'One Country Two Systems' Scheme. From that title it appears that it considers itself still somewhat separate from China; Hong Kong also fielded its own separate Olympics team.>>

Who are the HK officials? Who make up the HK regional guard? A better question, do you HK people consider yourself Chinese?

The special administrative region does allow special policies, but I fail to see what it has to do with motherboard prices in China.

<<Although manufacturing from Taiwanese corporations takes place in China, again, direct imports still cannot occur. In all cases, these Taiwanese corporations cannot operate on their own, and must for a joint venture with a mainland Chinese company in order to proceed.>>

Exactly, I believe many Taiwanese manufacturer, whether its motherboard, peripheral, programs and games, do have their dance partner in the mainland. Making it a virtual direct relationship.

AndyHui · Jan 1, 2001

The HK officials are elected by the people of Hong Kong. HK people do consider themselves as Chinese, although some would consider themselves a cut above the rest. There are people everywhere who do that, there are no exceptions.

I can get the MSI i815E board for approximately US$110.

ASUS did NOT start their jumperless offerings with the P3B-F. They started it with the original P2L97. After having various problems with it, they reverted back to jumper setup and refused to use BIOS control until the P3B-F.

[Edit] Sorry, I'm not following these arguments very well. This thread is kind of all over the place....

LXi · Jan 1, 2001

<<The HK officials are elected by the people of Hong Kong. HK people do consider themselves as Chinese, although some would consider themselves a cut above the rest. There are people everywhere who do that, there are no exceptions.>>

Thats fine with me.

<>

Its only $96 here, compare to its BX brother, the BX Master, which cost $134. For more comparisons, the Asus CUSL2-C is $110, and CUBX is $119. Abit SE6 is $121, and BX-133 is $112, the Gigabyte GA-6OMM7E is $120, and GA-6BX7+ is $124. Not a big difference as you can see, the i815s even hold a slight edge.

<<ASUS did NOT start their jumperless offerings with the P3B-F. They started it with the original P2L97. After having various problems with it, they reverted back to jumper setup and refused to use BIOS control until the P3B-F.>>

Well if its problematic then we wouldnt count it, they officially started using BIOS control after P3B-F. Not to mention many other manufacturers started using BIOS much later than these heavyweights.

<<Sorry, I'm not following these arguments very well. This thread is kind of all over the place....>>

Yes, its a mess.

ahfung · Jan 1, 2001

"You little person just dont know when to stop do you? Here, Soltek and Transcend i815E boards both offer 1MHz increment. Yes I made a mistake, Epox isnt one of them. But I met your challenge, now you have to eat your shoe."

Look at the spec of Asus CUSL-2 carefully. It is NOT 1MHz increment. The following FSB are absent in BIOS:

98/99/101/134/174/186/191/194/198/201/202/204/206-209/211-215MHz

Still, where are the majority of i815 mobo with jumperless BIOS and 1MHz increment you blow about?

"Official 133MHz support, official PC133 RAM support, asymetrical RAM/FSB bus speeds, ATA66/100... I wouldnt call those "useless"."

I don't feel how unofficial support would be any inferior to the "official" one.
Asymetrical RAM/FSB is too subtle to mention. Anyone gonna buy PC66 RAM for a new system? Wanna running at unofficial 166MHz FSB? We all know for P3 running memory faster than RAM brings very "negligable" gain, much more negligable than having faster FSB.

"For you information, Im a Chinese, I dont know how you can possibly conclude that Im an American even after I said it."
"I can name all PRC major cities, can you? I grown up in Guangzhou and I speak fluent Mandarin and Cantonese. Please dont accosiate me with Americans."

I have no interest in your nationality or race. What catch my attention is your personality. I don't really care about how many China cites you can name where you from and what you speak.

"Apparently you have no clue about China's current policies. Led by Deng Xiaoping's "open to outside" philosophy, China's economy has changed greatly over the past 10 years. Chinese government encourage outside investors into China, they created many new policies for Taiwan and foreign countries to directly import goods into China without the need of 3rd regions like Hong Kong, we have free trade policies in limited areas of China.

GET A CLUE!!!

Read this (Traditional Chinese Big5)

"Abit and MSI BX boards have been pulled from Fry's Electronics(a retail store in the US), and their rising prices is a sign of high demand, since they lowered and/or stopped BX board production."

Abit BX133 is still selling in HK. Supply drying up in US alone doesn't mean they aren't selling worldwide.

"Im running at a perfect 133MHz, with 66MHz AGP and 33MHz PCI, nothing out of spec. If I run this same setup with a BX, everything will be out of spec. Is this so hard for you to comprehend?"

I'm suprised to see you forgotten the CPU itself completely. What's the feeling of having an component not running at spec huh?

"Crap behind the keyboard, what else can I say?"

No wonder I have no respect on you, loser.

"The 4-in-1s automatically leave out the busmastering driver, I dont know what you did with it. Losing confidence because of such an insignificant thing is plain stupid."

I don't think you got enough brainpower to judget others stupid or not.

"Not as good as you at bitching. KX133 has vanished because the overwhelming KT133 sucess, KX133 boards are no longer produced, and they're very hard to find these days. I never heard of any timing issue with slocket CPUs on 694X, I've ran several different slockets on my P3V4X without problems. Yes I have heard of 694Z, its the same as 694X but with a different pin count."

Get a clue. KX133 vanish quietly because it is incompatible with TB/Duron due to timing issue. KT133 offers NO additional features or performance over KX133. Never heard of it? Never mind I've just schooled you.

"Im going to give you a taste of your own medicine, "dont throw 693/694 at me when we're talking about 694D"."

Na, they are using the same family of northbridge and probably exactly the same southbridge as well.

LXi · Jan 1, 2001

<<Look at the spec of Asus CUSL-2 carefully. It is NOT 1MHz increment. The following FSB are absent in BIOS:

98/99/101/134/174/186/191/194/198/201/202/204/206-209/211-215MHz>>

Oh big deal, nitpicker.

<<Still, where are the majority of i815 mobo with jumperless BIOS and 1MHz increment you blow about?>>

I said a majority started implementing softmenu-like BIOS. And have you broken your promise already? I provided 5 manufacturers who make i815e motherboards with 1MHz increment. 5 manufacturers using 1MHz increment is a BIG improvement over the lone Abit in the BX era. I have proven my point.

<>

To the contrary, I dont feel official is inferior to unofficial. But if you're given the option of running official with minimal performance loss? Why not?

<<Asymetrical RAM/FSB is too subtle to mention. No one gonna buy PC66 RAM for a new system? Wanna running at unofficial 166MHz FSB? We all know for P3 running memory faster than RAM brings very "negligable" gain, much more negligable than having faster FSB.>>

People with PC100 will be given the opportunity to run at 133MHz FSB, BX cant do that, enough said.

<>

I dont care if you care, I was making a statement about not accosiating me with Americans, do you understand that?

<<Abit BX133 is still selling in HK. Supply drying up in US alone doesn't mean they aren't selling worldwide.>>

How do you know its true all over the world? Have you actually been to places around the globe to check them out?

<<I'm suprised to see you forgotten the CPU itself completely. What's the feeling of having an component not running at spec huh?>>

Overclocking the CPU only and at the same time keeping other devices in safe range, I dont like running everything out of spec.

<<No wonder I have no respect on you, loser.>>

Like I need your respect.

<>

Anyone who makes conclusion base on such an insignificant incident is foolish.

<<Get a clue. KX133 vanish quietly because it is incompatible with TB/Duron due to timing issue. KT133 offers NO additional features or performance over KX133. Never heard of it? Never mind I've just schooled you.>>

Dude, dont pretend like you know me, cause you dont, dont pretend like you've taught me something because you made a little statement. Im well aware of the demise of KX133 and KT133.

<<Na, they are using the same family of northbridge and probably exactly the same southbridge as well.>>

Just admit it, you dont know the chipset well enough, you're finding excuses to get away from it.

ahfung · Jan 1, 2001

"My point is my peripherals are not running out of spec."
"Overclocking the CPU only and at the same time keeping other devices in safe range, I dont like running everything out of spec."

So what makes running CPU out of spec more acceptable than peripherals? Personal preference???

"This is getting further and further away from the topic, we were talking about prices of motherboards, and Ill repeat again that prices in China are in line with what I said."

"Who are the HK officials? Who make up the HK regional guard? A better question, do you HK people consider yourself Chinese?"

OK I dunno the intention behind your question. But isn't it offtopic and contrdicts with what u've just said in the last post?

LXi · Jan 1, 2001

ahfung, you have my concession.

<<So what makes running CPU out of spec more acceptable than peripherals? Personal preference???>>

I wanted to say this long time ago, both of us have preferences an thats what we have been arguing over with for the past 12 hrs. Lets put an end to it, you dont mind running systems out of spec, I like overclocking with minimum out of spec. Both have advantages and disavantages and I believe we both made good arguments to support our stand point.

<<OK I dunno the intention behind your question. But isn't it offtopic and contrdicts with what u've just said in the last post?>>

That is just a question out of curiosity.

Finally, I want to make an apology to you(and HK people) for my rude comments and personal attacks, I was too fired up and my emotions got the best of me. Have a good night/morning.

ahfung · Jan 1, 2001

To Andy:

The first mobo came with jumperless/softmenu is a HX mobo, probably Asus. I forgot the model. Back in 1997 Abit released a popular softmenu mobo, LX6 which allowed changing FSB in BIOS. Since then all Abit mobo are all jumperless. By Q1 2000 many mobo makers produced BX mobo with BIOS tweaking features.

Ornery · Jan 1, 2001

I hope you "brothers" can patch this up OK. Nice gesture there, LXi. Thanks for bothering to learn English and share what you know here.

Uh, Biggs, what have you learned from all this?

Peace To You All!

Biggs · Jan 1, 2001

I'm amazed of how much hardware and general information you people have. Ya'll must've spent quite some time researching these facts. Although arguements have gotten outta hand, the fact of the matter is that the knowledge pool generated here can be greatly beneficial to the readers. It doesn't matter if hardware A is better than hardware B and hardware C is better than both but loses the price/performance ration to hardware D and hardware E kicks the candy asses of all of them and Clinton really DID NOT have sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky! The bottom line is there is a lot to be gained from the different opinions here and in the end, it's up to the consumer to decide which product(s) suits his or her needs. A big thank you to ya'll and why don't you guys chill a li'l, have a cold beverage and celebrate the new year. Cheers!
=]

Sunner · Jan 1, 2001

ahfung, just a little note, AGPx4 has ~1 GB/Sec of bandwidth, AGPx2 has 512 MB/Sec.

ahfung · Jan 1, 2001

Thank you for correcting me, I forgot AGP is still a legacy 32 bit bus interface.

AndyHui · Jan 1, 2001

ahfung: I'm not sure that I would define a 32-bit bus as legacy. 16-bit certainly is, but 95% of PCI peripherals are 32-bit. The only 64-bit peripherals of any sort that I can think of off hand are 64-bit RAID Controllers and SCSI cards.

The earliest jumperless set up was not an ASUS motherboard. It was implemented by Legend/QDI on their 430VX Pentium motherboards.

LXi · Jan 1, 2001

Oh the Legend computers, yea they were the first to implement jumperless design, but wasnt much of an overclocker. I thought Intel started using jumperless a long time ago as well.

ahfung · Jan 2, 2001

I'm wondering how long mainstream 32 bit PCI can hold on. Just ATA100 alone would take up 100MB/s out of 133MB/s of PCI bandwidth. And then we still need bandwidth for Firewire, USB, soundcard, NIC.......

AndyHui · Jan 2, 2001

The problem is that we don't actually get 100MB coming from the hard drives across the PCI bus.

No need to include the NIC if you use something like the i815E as it has the Network Controller built into the chipset. The Accelerated Hub Architecture removes the 133MB/s bottleneck.

Soundcard does not need that much; neither does USB.

Sunner · Jan 2, 2001

There's a new standard in the works, that will replace PCI.
Dont know if its still called PCI-X or if they've made up some new fancy name for it, but most major computer corps around were defining it(Compaq, Intel, AMD etc) together.

But either way, doesnt AMD's LDT give the IDE bus a direct datapath to the chipset rather than through the PCI bus?
Could be way off on that one, just think I saw something like that on a presentation at some point...

BX board that support 1/3 AGP multiplier

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