BX board that support 1/3 AGP multiplier

[Viperoni]

Me and taz have both had MANY Radeon's....
All I can take mine up to is about 112fsb (kt133 chipset!!!)

BTW: Most video cards would run faster @ a higher bus speed, that is, unless there's another limiting factor.

 

[LXi]

Come on guys! We're just getting into the juicy part, why did you guys leave me? Anyway, I cant believe Im debating this same old topic again almost a year after BX's retirement.

 

[ArchAngel777]

I will step up to the plate, I think the Radeon is a sorry excuse for a GFX card. They have a sh!tty track record. It comes out 3 months after the Geforce 2, but it is still blown away by it. And we are not talking the ultra here. The radeons FSAA implementation sucks donky balls, and the card itself is a waste of money, I hate ATI. However I am very glad that many people like them.. cuz it keeps the cost of the NVXX chips down . GOD BLESS ATI RADEON OWNERS!

 

[LXi]

Uh... I'll let somebody else take you down with style. I dont own a Radeon card, even though I really want to make some sound arguments, I guess I dont have the right.

 

[LXi]

Ok since everybody appear to chicken out tonight, Im going to take you down.

<<I will step up to the plate, I think the Radeon is a sorry excuse for a GFX card.>>

Lame excuse to what? Get a better card?


<<They have a sh!tty track record.>>

Rage, Rage Pro, Rage 128, Rage mobility, Rage 128 Pro, all good video cards, not fast in speed but excels in many areas. Why do you think they sold the most chips in the video business? Why do you think OEM buy them? I dont know where you pulled that &quot;sh1tty track record&quot; thing out of.


<<It comes out 3 months after the Geforce 2, but it is still blown away by it.>>

What does &quot;blown away&quot; mean to you? If you mean crappier 2D, crappier image quality, crappier 32bit, crappier DVD assist, then you're right.


<<And we are not talking the ultra here. The radeons FSAA implementation sucks donky balls,>>

Did you say FSAA sucks? Yea, ANY FSAA suck, doesnt matter if its 3dfx, nvidia or ATI, they all suck, gimmick, useless, overhyped. ATI's philosophy is not improving 3D by &quot;blurring&quot; things, but instead making other effective approaches, if thats too hard for you to comprehend, well I guess thats how you arrived to that conclusion.


<<and the card itself is a waste of money,>>

With the Radeon and Voodoo5 at as low as $150 or less, I'd have to argue the opposite. You're pay for a GeForce2 card, which has pretty much nothing but speed, and you're paying nearly twice as much. Oh yea, ever played that game called Unreal Tournament? How smooth was your GF2? Not very smooth isnt it?


<<I hate ATI. However I am very glad that many people like them.. cuz it keeps the cost of the NVXX chips down . GOD BLESS ATI RADEON OWNERS! >>

God bless Radeon owners AND nVidia owners, just not people like you!

With style...

 

[Ornery]

The AGP bus runs at 89 MHz on the 440BX system, which could lead to crashes with some older AGP cards. However, the many of the new GeForce and GeForce 2 cards do not encounter to such problems. Beefed Up BX?

One year after it's &quot;retirement&quot;, the other chipsets are still trying to catch up. Perhaps a third party tweak could set the VIA Apollo Pro on par with the BX!. Pathetic...

 

[LXi]

Ok I dont know about you guys, but 160fps and 150fps doesnt make a bit of difference to me. The VIAs are capable of outperforming BX in memory, yea the third party software is very easy to use, I'd like to see some BX with that kind of tweakability. Speed isnt the only thing to consider when you buy a motherboard, agree? Its time to let BX rest, i815E will take over, AMD flatforms will take over. Any more pointless Quake3 numbers isnt going help the industry revolve. Call it pathetic if you will.

 

[obeseotron]

As for getting a new motherboard, there are arguments on both sides, and it comes down to your video card, how long you need the motherboard, your experience w/ overclocking etc. BX133 IS the fastest intel solution as of now. Faster tham i810, i815, i820, i840, and any via chipset. i815e is within 5% of bx133 now (the others are not) so it isn't noticable anymore. i815e is more feature complete, there is no argument, but the question is do you need anything that the i815e has? I don't, and my Soyo could handle any cpu that an i815e can, so I would get another BX, I would never build a system for someone with a BX133 setup, but I like it for my setup.

 

[Eug]

Face it guys. BX is not advisable for new systems, unless it's for a simple 100 MHz system like for a non-power user or a business office machine. In fact, for these people, maybe BX is the best solution because it's the most stable and the most mature. But it ISN'T the board for the overclocker because of AGP. I know for a fact that many cards cannot run properly at ultra high AGP speeds.

It's time to move on. And I'm saying this as a person who runs an overclocked BX for his main rig and who just bought a laptop with a BX motherboard.

As for ATI, I don't know why people have so many issues with them. Sure, they ain't great gamers (aside from the very nice Radeon), but for business and non-professional multimedia systems I'd rather have an ATI over just about everything else out there. In fact, for my laptop with DVD, an ATI was a prerequisite. If it didn't have one, I refused to even consider it.

 

[ahfung]

OK, being a long time BXer since 1999 summer, I have to say something.

The only 2 things a BX mobo lacking are:

1. 1/2 AGP divider
2. ATA66/100 support.

for 1), it is really not a hindrance for a new system. Most new graphic cards don't care to run at 89MHz or above. In fact a lot of them don't care to run at over 100MHz. With a suitable 3d accelerators 1) is NEVER a problem for overclockers provided they do a research first just as everyone should do it before buying any hardware.

as for 2), ATA33 is dead slow and not future-proof BUT 99% of new BX mobo u can still buy today comes with a onboard ATA66/100 controller. For older BX mobo, PCI ATA66/100 controllers are easily available that this really doesn't matter. Plus, VIA 686B southbridge of Apollo series is such a CRAP that it is never competitive to Promise or even the inferior Lowpoint controller.

i815E is never a bad product but not good enough to edge out BX. So much for Intel's advancement in 2 year. In fact i815 couldn't even keep up with BX in the amount of memory support (512MB vs 1GB). And don't forget NO SMP for i815 while BX can. i815 is just Intel's neutered cat.

 

[oldfart]

LXi, thanks for taking that turkey down. I was asleep. He has obviously been drinking too much of that that Nvidia Cool-Aid.

<< nVidia ownzz joo and EVERYTHING ELSE svcksor >>

LOL. Give me a break. Just wait till Taz gets here. As far as BX, BX133, 815e go, I've owned them all. I liked them all and they all worked well. My Radeon and my Voodoo 3 used to live just fine on a P3B-F @ 89 AGP. I'm also now quite happy with the 815e setup. I didn't really see any performance difference from one to the other.

 

[LXi]

<<1. 1/2 AGP divider
2. ATA66/100 support.>>

If I remember correctly, more than a majority of BX boards were equipped with jumpers, dipswithes, or very limited amount of front side bus selections in the BIOS. With introduction of i815E, everything changed, we moved from jumpers/dipswitches to virtually all softmenu base with 1MHz increments. Thats just one of the things manufacturers have gotten better at, there are many other things.


<<for 1), it is really not a hindrance for a new system. Most new graphic cards don't care to run at 89MHz or above. In fact a lot of them don't care to run at over 100MHz. With a suitable 3d accelerators 1) is NEVER a problem for overclockers provided they do a research first just as everyone should do it before buying any hardware.>>

Why run your system out of spec when you have the option of not doing so? I moved on to VIA because I found my TNT2 not able to take the 89MHz bus, and afterwards I found little performance difference. There is not a single reason to get a BX today, and no your video card being able to take high AGP bus is not a reason.


<<as for 2), ATA33 is dead slow and not future-proof BUT 99% of new BX mobo u can still buy today comes with a onboard ATA66/100 controller. For older BX mobo, PCI ATA66/100 controllers are easily available that this really doesn't matter. Plus, VIA 686B southbridge of Apollo series is such a CRAP that it is never competitive to Promise or even the inferior Lowpoint controller.>>

99% huh? Why bother spending more on an outdated flatform when you can get i815 or VIA with this capability already given? Would check those prices already? An excellent MicroStar i815 goes for as low as $96, while its BX brother is stilll up in the $120s. And would you please back up your VIA 686B southbridge being crap? You might want to take a look at this before spilling your crap too.


<<i815E is never a bad product but not good enough to edge out BX. So much for Intel's advancement in 2 year. In fact i815 couldn't even keep up with BX in the amount of memory support (512MB vs 1GB). And don't forget NO SMP for i815 while BX can. i815 is just Intel's neutered cat.>>

I completely disagree, nobody denied the BX a better performer, but performance isnt everything. And I thought you know well enough the difference is even negligable, if there is some earth shattering difference then you'd probably have a point. i815E isnt faster than BX, but its good enough to overtake BX for people that falls in to that P3 overclocking category.

 

[Ornery]

Oh brother, nothing like being consistant:

&quot;...the difference is even negligable&quot;

You spent how much money to go from:

• 744MHz(124MHz)
  Q3A Fastest------------91.9 fps
  Q3A Normal------------75.1 fps
  3D Marks 2000------------4423

All the way up to this blistering difference?

• 800MHz(133MHz)
  Q3A Fastest________93.5 fps
  Q3A Normal________76.3 fps
  3D Marks 2000________4591

Why spring for an i815Ewhen there was no &quot;earth shattering difference&quot;?

&quot;There is not a single reason to get a BX today...&quot;

Is SMP not a reason? I didn't know the current crop of chipsets couldn't do SMP! Pathetic...

 

[LXi]

<<Oh brother, nothing like being consistant:

&quot;...the difference is even negligable&quot;

You spent how much money to go from:
744MHz(124MHz)
Q3A Fastest------------91.9 fps
Q3A Normal------------75.1 fps
3D Marks 2000------------4423
All the way up to this blistering difference?
800MHz(133MHz)
Q3A Fastest________93.5 fps
Q3A Normal________76.3 fps
3D Marks 2000________4591>>

I had to buy a new motherboard, because Im building up a second machine. I send the BX to the second machine and upgrade my primary to the VIA. Like I said the difference is negligable, its not the reason why I bought the VIA. Its because instead of running everything out of spec on an 124Mhz bus, why not run at 133MHz with all my devices running at a comfortable bus speed?



<<Why spring for an i815Ewhen there was no &quot;earth shattering difference&quot;?>>

Better OC possibilities and a more complete feature set. Like I said manufacturers have improved in many areas in motherboard manufacturing over the past.


<<Is SMP not a reason? I didn't know the current crop of chipsets couldn't do SMP! Pathetic...>>

Oh, you rather settle with the lowly Abit BP6? I'd say get an MSI 694D Pro and rock on.

 

[Ornery]

No sh!t, I don't know the first thing about SMP, because I'm not the least bit interested. Was surprised that the new Intel chipsets couldn't accomodate it. As far as would I prefer BX SMP over a VIA solution, I'd do a LOT of research. This is the first thing I turned up:

• &quot;Soltek have announced a new dual VIA Apollo Pro 133A board. This is of great interest to me, as I've been testing the Tyan Tiger 133 and the MSI 649D board, and frankly, both boards have &quot;issues&quot; to put it politely! Performance is very poor, and both boards have shown questionable reliability in testing. I've been working with MSI and Tyan reporting my findings, but frankly I don't hold out much hope at this stage...

Hmmm, why am I NOT surprised?

 

[LXi]

Anandtech beg to differ.

&quot;The 694D was also a very stable motherboard as it didn?t crash at all while we were testing it. We will put it through our normal 24-hour burn for the individual review of the board itself, but it was surprisingly stable, a much more pleasant experience than the one we had with Tyan?s Tiger 133 not too long ago.&quot;

&quot;At the same time, the dual VIA 133A is easily keeping up with the more expensive i820 platform and isn't too far away from the i840. VIA has always been known to produce value chipsets, and now it seems like we have a low cost dual processor setup at our disposal as well.&quot;

&quot;ZD's Dual Processor Inspection tests run multithreaded versions of three High End Winstone 99 applications and thus receives a nice boost from having two processors at its disposal. Once again, the 133A is just as fast as the dual 820 and just somewhat slower than the dual 840 board but much cheaper than both.&quot;

&quot;We were extremely impressed with Microstar's 694D Pro, and if more motherboard manufacturers can put VIA's 133A into a solid dual processor motherboard design, VIA may just have created a brand new market for motherboard manufacturers.&quot;

 

[Ornery]

From a price to performance standpoint, the 133A chipset makes quite a bit of sense to be included in entry level dual processor workstations, however since the chipset isn't quite as mature as the older BX/GX chipsets, we wouldn't suggest trying to build a mission critical server around it.

 

[LXi]

The review is over 6 months old, I wouldnt say the same thing now.

 

[ahfung]

&quot;If I remember correctly, more than a majority of BX boards were equipped with jumpers, dipswithes, or very limited amount of front side bus selections in the BIOS. With introduction of i815E, everything changed, we moved from jumpers/dipswitches to virtually all softmenu base with 1MHz increments. Thats just one of the things manufacturers have gotten better at, there are many other things.&quot;

Completely Bullsh!t! Show me where the majority of i815E mobo come with ALL SOFTMENU BASED WITH 1MHz INCREMENTS. If you could name more than 5 brands doing so, I'd eat my shoes. Abit and Asus along with a number of other mobo makers have a long history of incorporating &quot;Jumperless&quot; and &quot;Softmenu&quot; features into BIOS since HX and TX era back in 1997. Abit BF6 debuted last September already implemented with all BIOS tweakings with 1MHz increments overclocking. The only jumper u could find on the mobo is the &quot;clear CMOS&quot;. Since then every BF6 clone mobo (e.g. Asus CUBX, Abit BE6-II, BX133, Epox BX6, BX7, BX7+, BX7+100) sells like hotcake.

Your memory is just so so... LOL

&quot;Why run your system out of spec when you have the option of not doing so?&quot;

Good quesiton from a non-overclocker. Because I don't care about running out of spec AS LONG AS IT BOOSTS PERFORMANCE. By running at 89MHz, the speed effectively raised from AGP2X to 2.67X.

&quot;I moved on to VIA because I found my TNT2 not able to take the 89MHz bus, and afterwards I found little performance difference. There is not a single reason to get a BX today, and no your video card being able to take high AGP bus is not a reason.&quot;

Does your statment contradict with the lame excuse above saying &quot;BX beats other AGP4X mobo by its overclocked AGP bus&quot;?

Listen carefully:

Fact 1. AGP4X provides bandwidth of 2.1GB/s vs 1.06GB/s of AGP2X
Fact 2. For BX133 mobo, AGP at 89MHz double pumped date rate produces bandwidth of 1.4GB/s

Even overclocked BX133 system still doesn't have as much AGP bandwidth as AGP4X system. This truly shows how CRAPPY Apollo and i815 are. LMAO.

I used to tease about my frieds with VIA Apollo mobo. AGP4X and Fastwrite are JOKE. They are actually faster than 2X by 4% and Fastwrite is actually slowwrite. What laughed me to death is most of them still running then at 2X now due to tons of stability issue, endless compatibility problems, or simply couldn't find a way to enable it. What a bunch of pathetic souls.

&quot;99% huh? Why bother spending more on an outdated flatform when you can get i815 or VIA with this capability already given? Would check those prices already? An excellent MicroStar i815 goes for as low as $96, while its BX brother is stilll up in the $120s. And would you please back up your VIA 686B southbridge being crap? You might want to take a look at this before spilling your crap too.&quot;

Why bother? I can guarantee on the date BX really outdated so will i815 and Apollo! Here retail Abit BX133 is only about $100 while its less capable i815 brother cost well over $120!

I'm the system administrator in my workplace. We got about 60 Acerpower workstations based on VIA Apollo Pro to support. They are nightmare to deal with. Most complaints I received is about DMA couldn't be enabled, hard drives not detected properly and CDROM not showing in Windows. Not to mention they are a lot less stable than the older Compaq Deskpro based on BX.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying VIA 686B has bad performance. But its compatibility and driver support are really not up to standard. Thank you for the link to Tom's HW, but have to remind you burst read speed alone accounts very little in real world performance.

&quot;I completely disagree, nobody denied the BX a better performer, but performance isnt everything. And I thought you know well enough the difference is even negligable, if there is some earth shattering difference then you'd probably have a point. i815E isnt faster than BX, but its good enough to overtake BX for people that falls in to that P3 overclocking category.&quot;

Here I'm not talking about the performance but the amount of memory BX can support which DOUBLES that of i815. If I want to build server which eats memory for breakfast, BX would be the top choice in my list espeically when SDRAM is dirt cheap now. I didn't say i815 a lot slower, but there are something i815 couldn't do while the veteran BX can. I sympathize with i815 because it is Intel rendered it impotent by limiting to 512MB SDRAM and removing SMP, so that it won't compete with i820/i840 in highend market.

OK, enough for a smack down.

Happy new year to all Anandtechers.

 

[ahfung]

&quot;The review is over 6 months old, I wouldnt say the same thing now.&quot;

You don't count it right, the review is over 5 months old.
I just wanna know any earth-shattering improvement now. Can you confirm it?

Oh LXi, have to remind u one thing. i815 is i815, 694D is 694D, they are different. When talking about i815 lacks of SMP, don't throw 694D at me. When talking about Apollo poor performance, don't throw i815 at me. You can't cross them, do u?

Please, for god's sake, don't mix them up.

 

[LXi]

<<Completely Bullsh!t! Show me where the majority of i815E mobo come with ALL SOFTMENU BASED WITH 1MHz INCREMENTS. If you could name more than 5 brands doing so, I'd eat my shoes. Abit and Asus along with a number of other mobo makers have a long history of incorporating &quot;Jumperless&quot; and &quot;Softmenu&quot; features into BIOS since HX and TX era back in 1997. Abit BF6 debuted last September already implemented with all BIOS tweakings with 1MHz increments overclocking. The only jumper u could find on the mobo is the &quot;clear CMOS&quot;. Since then every BF6 clone mobo (e.g. Asus CUBX, Abit BE6-II, BX133, Epox BX6, BX7, BX7+, BX7+100) sells like hotcake.>>

Abit, Asus, MicroStar, Epox, Soltek, and more, eat your shoes now. Actually, if you know the facts(which you dont seem to), Asus didnt start using softmenulike BIOS until P3B-F, which is WAY after TX era. Abit was the ONLY one with softmenu and 1MHz, after i815E debuted many manufacturers either start implementing or improving soft BIOS, the 1MHz increment is an example, there is no way you can deny manufacturers have gotten better in overclocking features.


<<Your memory is just so so... LOL>>

Better than yours.


<<Good quesiton from a non-overclocker. Because I don't care about running out of spec AS LONG AS IT BOOSTS PERFORMANCE. By running at 89MHz, the speed effectively raised from AGP2X to 2.67X.>>

Boost what performance? That negligable 10 fps when you hit 150fps+?


<<Does your statment contradict with the lame excuse above saying &quot;BX beats other AGP4X mobo by its overclocked AGP bus&quot;?>>

Stop feeding me with words I never said. I dont know who made that lame excuse but I never said such a thing.


<<Listen carefully:

Fact 1. AGP4X provides bandwidth of 2.1GB/s vs 1.06GB/s of AGP2X
Fact 2. For BX133 mobo, AGP at 89MHz double pumped date rate produces bandwidth of 1.4GB/s

Even overclocked BX133 system still doesn't have as much AGP bandwidth as AGP4X system. This truly shows how CRAPPY Apollo and i815 are. LMAO.>>

Again, I forward to my former statement, the difference is negligable, get over it.


<<I used to tease about my frieds with VIA Apollo mobo. AGP4X and Fastwrite are JOKE. They are actually faster than 2X by 4% and Fastwrite is actually slowwrite. What laughed me to death is most of them still running then at 2X now due to tons of stability issue, endless compatibility problems, or simply couldn't find a way to enable it. What a bunch of pathetic souls.>>

I'd have to say you're pathetic to laugh at your friends. Instead of helping them, you laugh at them, typical HongKong man in my epxerience.


<<Why bother? I can guarantee on the date BX really outdated so will i815 and Apollo! Here retail Abit BX133 is only about $100 while its less capable i815 brother cost well over $120!>>

Well those HK prices sure are insane, I have seen very capable i815E in China and over here cost less than a BX with ATA66/100 controllers. BX is already outdated, i815 and AP133A is just starting out. The negligable performance difference will be equaled out when faster processors come out that wont run on a BX, moot point.


<<I'm the system administrator in my workplace. We got about 60 Acerpower workstations based on VIA Apollo Pro to support. They are nightmare to deal with. Most complaints I received is about DMA couldn't be enabled, hard drives not detected properly and CDROM not showing in Windows. Not to mention they are a lot less stable than the older Compaq Deskpro based on BX.>>

Acer is crap, Im sorry your workplace bought these works from the devil. The general experience with VIA 133A has been very pleasant among end users.

<<Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying VIA 686B has bad performance. But its compatibility and driver support are really not up to standard. Thank you for the link to Tom's HW, but have to remind you burst read speed alone accounts very little in real world performance.>>

Excuse me? Do you have any actual experience with the 686B and the VIA 4-in-1 drivers? I doubt it.


<<Here I'm not talking about the performance but the amount of memory BX can support which DOUBLES that of i815. If I want to build server which eats memory for breakfast, BX would be the top choice in my list espeically when SDRAM is dirt cheap now. I didn't say i815 a lot slower, but there are something i815 couldn't do while the veteran BX can. I sympathize with i815 because it is Intel rendered it impotent by limiting to 512MB SDRAM and removing SMP, so that it won't compete with i820/i840 in highend market.>>

I will make an argument further down....


<<OK, enough for a smack down.>>

I'd say you were &quot;owned&quot;.


<<I just wanna know any earth-shattering improvement now. Can you confirm it?>>

That should be my question, if you can prove that BX has earth shattering improvement over VIA133A.


<<Oh LXi, have to remind u one thing. i815 is i815, 694D is 694D, they are different. When talking about i815 lacks of SMP, don't throw 694D at me. When talking about Apollo poor performance, don't throw i815 at me. You can't cross them, do u?>>

Im defending chipset with 1/2 AGP divider in general. I use my poker cards whichever way I want, and whichever way helps me win. If you can't respond to 694D being a good SMP board, then you can shut up about it.

 

[prontospyder]

Running PIII 700E @ 945 Mhz on Abit BX Board (BF6) w/ ATi Radeon @ 90Mhz AGP without any crashes.

 

[ahfung]

&quot;Abit, Asus, MicroStar, Epox, Soltek, and more, eat your shoes now.&quot;

Name me the models on sale. Still where are the majority i815 mobo with BIOS tweakings and 1MHz FSB increment? Don't deface from your mouth.

&quot;Boost what performance? That negligable 10 fps when you hit 150fps+?&quot;

How many fps faster isn't the point. It is the word &quot;faster&quot; would still apply to a 2-year old &quot;obsolete&quot; chipset.

Oh well, according to your mighty theory, Giga CPU, PC133, PC800, PC2100 are all HYPE because they only produce negligable speed boost?

&quot;I'd have to say you're pathetic to laugh at your friends. Instead of helping them, you laugh at them, typical HongKong man in my epxerience.&quot;

I found this statement insulting to all Hong Kong people hanging out AT forum. If AT forum does have policy agaisnt discrimination I won't hesitate to make a complaint. You are pathetic enough to assume everyone behaves like you do.

&quot;Well those HK prices sure are insane, I have seen very capable i815E in China and over here cost less than a BX with ATA66/100 controllers.&quot;

Due to geographical advantage Hongkong has, we are the few regions first to get the latest mobo from Taiwan and China. It is also one of the place to get cheapest hardware. I dunno how some hardware are overpriced in your side, but for here, cheapest vs the cheapest, BX wins hand down.


&quot;BX is already outdated, i815 and AP133A is just starting out. The negligable performance difference will be equaled out when faster processors come out that wont run on a BX, moot point.&quot;

Show me how BX is outdated while i815 and Apollo is just starting. Aren't you talking a lot of &quot;negligible performance difference&quot; doesn't it contradict with the fact BX still being faster and much better hard/software compatibility and stability?

I'd like to know what faster processor that won't run on BX. i815, BX and 133A all belong to chipsets for P6 (excluding Pentium Pro). If any new speed grade P3 required a BIOS flash for BX mobo to run properly, i815 and Apollo aren't immuned as well.

&quot;The general experience with VIA 133A has been very pleasant among end users.&quot;

This is just your feeling and concluded from your own personal experience.

&quot;Excuse me? Do you have any actual experience with the 686B and the VIA 4-in-1 drivers? I doubt it.&quot;

If u want the detail I could start a whole new thread about the problem I encountered with ATAPI devices and VIA 4-in-1 drivers.

&quot;I'd say you were &quot;owned&quot;.&quot;
&quot;Im defending chipset with 1/2 AGP divider in general. I use my poker cards whichever way I want, and whichever way helps me win. If you can't respond to 694D being a good SMP board, then you can shut up about it.&quot;

I've no experience with 694D board. I'd be dreaded to put one in my mission critical server boxs given the extermely disappointing experience with the performance/stability/compatiblity of 693A/694X.

Even BX/GX didn't claim &quot;good&quot; SMP board at the very begining. only time can tell. Therefore what you said for something u haven't touched one yet is indeed, wishful thinking.


Lastly, I'd have to say, you really showed how childish you are. We are just discussing technical stuff, pleae hold your temper. Nothing should takes personally.

 

[LXi]

<<Name me the models on sale. Still where are the majority i815 mobo with BIOS tweakings and 1MHz FSB increment? Don't deface from your mouth.>>

You just broke your promise. I dont remember the models for Epox and Soltek, visit Tomshardware and Anandtech roundups for more info.



<<How many fps faster isn't the point. It is the word &quot;faster&quot; would still apply to a 2-year old &quot;obsolete&quot; chipset.>>

So whats your point? People should stick to old architectures forever?


<<Oh well, according to your mighty theory, Giga CPU, PC133, PC800, PC2100 are all HYPE because they only produce negligable speed boost?>>

In a word, yes. Rambus is hype, DDR is hype even though people wont admit it.


<<I found this statement insulting to all Hong Kong people hanging out AT forum. If AT forum does have policy agaisnt discrimination I won't hesitate to make a complaint. You are pathetic enough to assume everyone behaves like you do.>>

Go ahead, make a complaint. I feel ashamed to be accosiated with people like you as a Chinese. You still think Hong Kong is a country? Now thats a breakthrough.


<<Due to geographical advantage Hongkong has, we are the few regions first to get the latest mobo from Taiwan and China. It is also one of the place to get cheapest hardware. I dunno how some hardware are overpriced in your side, but for here, cheapest vs the cheapest, BX wins hand down.>>

I fail to see how HK has a geographical advantage over places lilke Beijing and Guangzhou, and those are the places I observed to have consistent pricings showing that new BX boards are equally or more expensive than capable i815 boards.


<<Show me how BX is outdated while i815 and Apollo is just starting.>>

Its a fact that manufacturers have stopped making BX boards, and are focusing FULLY on i815 and VIA solutions. You can't deny that.


<<Aren't you talking a lot of &quot;negligible performance difference&quot; doesn't it contradict with the fact BX still being faster and much better hard/software compatibility and stability?>>

It does not contradict BX is faster, I never denied that it is. My point is if the difference is negligable, why not go for a new flatform with newer features? I dont know where you pulled those hard/software compatibility and stability problems. i815 and VIA solutions have proven themselves to be compatible and stable flatforms.


<<I'd like to know what faster processor that won't run on BX. i815, BX and 133A all belong to chipsets for P6 (excluding Pentium Pro). If any new speed grade P3 required a BIOS flash for BX mobo to run properly, i815 and Apollo aren't immuned as well.>>

You can't run any P3-EBs, its out of spec.


<<This is just your feeling and concluded from your own personal experience.>>

Go ahead, ask a question to all VIA owners, I'd bet my house on this.


<<If u want the detail I could start a whole new thread about the problem I encountered with ATAPI devices and VIA 4-in-1 drivers.>>

I dont know if its your incompetence, even people who're just starting out with hardware have had little trouble with VIA motherboards and 4-in-1 drivers.


<<I've no experience with 694D board. I'd be dreaded to put one in my mission critical server boxs given the extermely disappointing experience with the performance/stability/compatiblity of 693A/694X.>>

Again, I've seen this kind of ignorance in the past. People blaming VIA when its obviously the OEM/mobo manufacturer's fault, or crap behind the keyboard.


<<Even BX/GX didn't claim &quot;good&quot; SMP board at the very begining. only time can tell. Therefore what you said for something u haven't touched one yet is indeed, wishful thinking.>>

If BX worked its way to a good SMP board, what makes you think the VIA solution cannot? And nay, I have had experience with the 694D, its a breeze to setup, and its very a very capable SMP board.


<<Lastly, I'd have to say, you really showed how childish you are. We are just discussing technical stuff, pleae hold your temper. Nothing should takes personally.>>

You really should look at your own temper before telling others to cool down.

 

[ahfung]

&quot;You just broke your promise. I dont remember the models for Epox and Soltek, visit Tomshardware and Anandtech roundups for more info.&quot;

I saw none of them in their web pages. You just once again shown me how u think with your butt and talk from your ass. You need a psycho?

&quot;So whats your point? People should stick to old architectures forever?&quot;

My point is people shouldn't choose hardware basing on useless features.

&quot;Go ahead, make a complaint. I feel ashamed to be accosiated with people like you as a Chinese. You still think Hong Kong is a country? Now thats a breakthrough.&quot;

You are the few arrogant self-centered Americans I met here. Luckily the majority here are very friendly and helpful. Hong Kong has never been a country and I don't care about the status. It is a happy place to live in and I'm more than satisfied.

&quot;I fail to see how HK has a geographical advantage over places lilke Beijing and Guangzhou, and those are the places I observed to have consistent pricings showing that new BX boards are equally or more expensive than capable i815 boards.&quot;

Glad that you can name a few PRC cities. But do u know they CAN'T import hardware directly from ROC Taiwan? Do you know all goods from Taiwan have to re-import from a 3rd region (like Hong Kong) before going to PRC China? All Taiwanese hardware selling in mainland China have complicated transportation/shipping cost so tell me how can they sell cheaper in China?

LOL. Do a research b4 talking from your ass. Obviously you know NOTHING about the China's politics.

&quot;Its a fact that manufacturers have stopped making BX boards, and are focusing FULLY on i815 and VIA solutions. You can't deny that.&quot;

I dunno if they have stopped making BX mobo, but BX mobo from Abit, Asus, Epox, MSI, Soltek, Aopen, Gigabyte, Biostar and Tekram are still easily available here. I agree that omeday BX mobo production will be stopped but this is simply a business decision.

&quot;You can't run any P3-EBs, its out of spec.&quot;

Ouch, right but aren't u running your 600E at 800? This is out of spec as well so downclock it now.

&quot;I dont know if its your incompetence, even people who're just starting out with hardware have had little trouble with VIA motherboards and 4-in-1 drivers&quot;

LOL. Yes I must be incompetent enough to change WPCREDIT settings one by one on some Apollo Pro mobo only to see some BSOD and random freezing. I must be incompetent enough to install 4-in-1 driver after a fresh W98SE install only to find burner isn't working anymore. I must be incompetent enough to try a number of 4-in-1 drivers only to find the problems didn't go away either. I must be incompletent enough to choose a high quality Aopen mobo.

At last I solved the burner problem. Solution is simple, REMOVE VIA 4-in-1 driver and let Win98SE handles the busmastering . Since then I lose my faith on VIA forever.

&quot;Again, I've seen this kind of ignorance in the past. People blaming VIA when its obviously the OEM/mobo manufacturer's fault, or crap behind the keyboard.&quot;

&quot;KX133&quot; has forever vanished from your memory? Do u know there is a timing issue with slocket CPU on 694x? Ever heard of 694Z? You obviously know bitching better than hardware.

&quot;If BX worked its way to a good SMP board, what makes you think the VIA solution cannot?&quot;

It takes time to see how it doing as a highend server/workstation mobo. I do know that in my profession few administrators any advocate non-Intel solution for business/corporate use, esp in mission critical role like servers. It is something I'd like to change but so far I've to be careful towards VIA.

I never comment on 694D directly. It is 693/694 that scared me away.