Coming back to your haunting question, BMW: "What on earth would posses anybody to say these things?", I ask the same of the Mayor of New York of Bill Clinton and thousands of others that stab themselves in the back. It is a deep and a profound question and one that is unanswered in the mind of the public, I think for good reason.
I believe the answer if quite simple but difficult or impossible to believe and it is that we hate ourselves, don't know it, and don't want to know we don't want to know.
I say we were all humiliated and made to feel bad about ourselves as children and this split us in two. We became the prosecutorial cop that criticizes us and keeps us in line, and a needy child seeking forgiveness and a return to the time we were hurt. We are split and at war within. The hate of our weakness by the cop keeps the needy self unconscious and underground where it operates against our own cops like wishes. It lusts to get back to the dirty things it was doing when it was put down, to find forgiveness and repair the harm, but the cop beats us up and insists we act like adults when half of us is a child.
We acquire praise in the world for achievement and we feel inwardly so bad so we set out to destroy our achievement. We go up so we can have a great fall and feel like we were once made to feel, the worst in the world. We are our own enemy and we seek to destroy our own selves, all unconsciously.
This is how self hate works. We feel so bad we can't allow ourselves to consciously remember because we died from the pain and we don't want to die again, or relive that death. So we can't do the very thing that can make us well, remember and know what really happened and see we were taught only lies, that there was never anything wrong with us.
I believe the answer if quite simple but difficult or impossible to believe and it is that we hate ourselves, don't know it, and don't want to know we don't want to know.
I say we were all humiliated and made to feel bad about ourselves as children and this split us in two. We became the prosecutorial cop that criticizes us and keeps us in line, and a needy child seeking forgiveness and a return to the time we were hurt. We are split and at war within. The hate of our weakness by the cop keeps the needy self unconscious and underground where it operates against our own cops like wishes. It lusts to get back to the dirty things it was doing when it was put down, to find forgiveness and repair the harm, but the cop beats us up and insists we act like adults when half of us is a child.
We acquire praise in the world for achievement and we feel inwardly so bad so we set out to destroy our achievement. We go up so we can have a great fall and feel like we were once made to feel, the worst in the world. We are our own enemy and we seek to destroy our own selves, all unconsciously.
This is how self hate works. We feel so bad we can't allow ourselves to consciously remember because we died from the pain and we don't want to die again, or relive that death. So we can't do the very thing that can make us well, remember and know what really happened and see we were taught only lies, that there was never anything wrong with us.
Maybe his intent was to write a book about child porn and sell it to pedophiles and teach them how to download it and get away with it?
GodlessAstronomer
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2007
- 17,009
- 5
- 0
About a year and a half ago I considered Moonbeam intelligent and cogent, if not a little eccentric. I enjoyed reading what he had to say.
About (from memory) 8 months ago he jumped onto the Obama bandwagon (I'm an Obama fan, for the record) and his opinions lost their usual critical and skeptical edge. He became yet another partisan hack, but still said interesting things from time to time. He has now obviously fallen completely off the deep end, lost all objectivity and is now 100% pure hack. I can't even bring myself to finish reading his inane posts in this thread. Moonbeam, it was good while it lasted but your opinions have officially become completely worthless over the last year.
Now, regarding the topic. I read the full transcripts of his conversations with Sexfairy and it's sickening. Now there is obviously no proof that he engaged in child sex (although I'll be very interested in following the case) but regardless he has confessed to distributing child porn, which is horrible enough as it is (and yes MB, it's far, far worse than "just a mouse click"). If any of the other things he said to that woman prove to be factual (sucking off his son, jacking off with his children and their friends, etc) then I hope this fucker gets reamed something fierce in prison.
About (from memory) 8 months ago he jumped onto the Obama bandwagon (I'm an Obama fan, for the record) and his opinions lost their usual critical and skeptical edge. He became yet another partisan hack, but still said interesting things from time to time. He has now obviously fallen completely off the deep end, lost all objectivity and is now 100% pure hack. I can't even bring myself to finish reading his inane posts in this thread. Moonbeam, it was good while it lasted but your opinions have officially become completely worthless over the last year.
Now, regarding the topic. I read the full transcripts of his conversations with Sexfairy and it's sickening. Now there is obviously no proof that he engaged in child sex (although I'll be very interested in following the case) but regardless he has confessed to distributing child porn, which is horrible enough as it is (and yes MB, it's far, far worse than "just a mouse click"). If any of the other things he said to that woman prove to be factual (sucking off his son, jacking off with his children and their friends, etc) then I hope this fucker gets reamed something fierce in prison.
Try to be rational. Your hatred of child abuse is an excuse for venting hatred of your own self. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That means that beauty is seen because of beauty within. Likewise with moral disgust and a need to punish, it all comes from having learned you were disgusting as a child and defending yourself from those feelings by becoming and siding with the prosicutorial parent. You are an authoritarian, a carrier of the evil of self hate, a means of transmission of that disease.
You were made to feel worthless slime and now you look for an opportunity to dump those feelings on others whom you can identify as slime. You only bury your true innocent self further by such a pretense. You condemn yourself to hell as you do it to others. That is why God warned you not to judge. Your hold your real self in contempt every time you hate others.
You condemn the pervert to punishment and hate and you drive him underground. You satisfy his need to be made to feel worthless by committing actions he knows you will despise. You play his game and keep him sick just as you keep your own self that way.
You are a deep fool, but you won't see it. You are a bigot blinded by hate of evil, an evil that is just a sickness like your own. You and the molester are the two hands of child abuse, but because you hate yourself as you hate him you will never see. Moonbeam is a genius to all except he has a mirror and when that mirror shines your way you flee in horror.
Your praise and your condemnation mean nothing to me because I saw you coming long before you arrived. I know you because I know me.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
It's far from harmless, but it's real damage is invisible to the ignorant like yourself. The child molester will never seek help because of assholes like you. He is too busy getting even for the same condemnation that created you. You are as thrilled by you hate of him as he is by harming children. You and he both abuse children, real ones and the one within. All your disgust and contempt IS YOU. You stew in it. It makes you as disgusting as you feel. The child molester lives in hell and you're right there with him. You are too stupid to even understand your own Christian religion. You and the molester have been forgiven. You are as condemned as he if you can't see that.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
:roll: A molester won't seek help? Puhfugginleeze. They will have plenty of time for help in jail paying for their CRIME. They CHOSE to commit the crime and now I'm to blame for them staying in the shadows? You have quite the twisted view of reality.
Actually, the twisted view is yours, as usual, cadsortaguy.
The fact that the current situation leads many pedohiles not to seek help is, well, a fact.
The fact that you are ignorant about that, and yet you go around accusing someone who isn't of being wrong, is a fact, too.
You can capitalize words all you like, but it's not going to turn a turd argument into a pearl.
You show zero awareness of the situation for people who are pedophiles.
I daresay, cadsortaguy, that if you had the misfortune they do, and you saw children as adults sexually in a distorted view, perhaps analogously to the way that anorexics see their emaciated bodies as having too much fat, their brains screwed up, that you would be just like them, internally struggling between your own perceptions and desires and what society said was right, and probably avoiding getting the little 'help' available because of the shame, the perceived risks, etc. But since you are ignorant, you post as you do.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Well in our current system a pedophile should be in jail. And since you went there - I am probably more aware of the issue than most here so your accusation of ignorance is way off base. Do they need "help" - yes but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be punished for what they do and kept away from others.
Well, this post has more to agree with than the previous, in which you claimed that pedophiles are not deterred from seeking help.
You don't offer any substance of specifics to the awareness you claim, but that previous post was grounds for concluding you lack awareness. Exposure to a pedophile doesn't automatically mean you have any actual understanding of the condition. Perhaps further discussion would clarify something and show you understand more than I saw in that post.
You say that pedophiles belong in jail. Since pedophilia is the condition of romantic/sexual attraction to children, you are advocating people who have not acted in jail. Did you mean to?
I've always said that for all the understanding I think is needed of the condition, that that doesn't change the fact that society has the right and duty to protect children from them.
I've advocated that a humane approach making it easier for pedophiles to get help should be pursued, which would also be far more effective at preventing child molestation, IMO.
Your post basically attacking someone for saying that pedophiles are discouraged from getting help and with its capitalized CRIME language was unhelpful IMO.
I think it'd be excellent if there were a way to make you a pedophile for a week, without letting you act on it, so you could see the problem better. Unfortunately, we can't.
The question is whether you will bother to get a better understanding that's helpful for humane treatment of pedophiles and protecting children alike, or stick to the "CRIME" post.
Ultimately, if the society fails to do anything for the pedophile and the pedophile predictably acts on his warped views and molests a child, it's a crime and he can be locked up.
But I'll say it's a tragedy when it gets to that point, needlessly, for both the child and the pedophile, and even a loss for society as well.
Sadly, our society doesn't do all that well with getting past the mob with torches mentality you showed in your CRIME post, and sticks to the broken situation we've always had.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
First off you are incorrect in stating that I suggested they weren't deterred from seeking help. I did not make that claim.
Nope, I'm not going to go into further detail of my awareness.
If a pedophile has acted on their desires(made the choice to) then yes they belong in jail. If they have not commited a crime yet then there are many ways for them to get help if they want it. Nothing I have done or stated discourages that. My posts are about those that have acted on it so I think you've assumed a bit too much with your asinine mob mentality BS.
They do not need to go to jail and they do not need to be punished. What good will that do but satisfy your own sick need for revenge. They are sick and do harm from that illness and you are sick and want to harm them. What they need is physical separation from people they can harm and an opportunity and some psychotherapy to heal if they can. It won't be easy to do and it won't be easy to separate real progress form phonies, but your road leads absolutely nowhere. You just perpetuate the notion these folk are evil rather than mentally ill and that your arrogant ass is somehow entitled to punish them which is exactly your purpose, to garner in place of your feelings of worthlessness, the feeling of total power. You practice your own form of pedophilia on pedophiles, a kind of vengeful sadism.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Uh... hello... there are these things called LAWS. You break them, your punishment awaits. For you not to see/understand this shows just how twisted your thinking is. We live in a civilized country with laws to protect the innocent. I can think of no more innocent beings than children.
Exactly as I said, you are a blind bigot. There IS nothing more innocent than children and that is exactly what everybody once was. That is who we are at the core of our being. That is what was corrupted to make monsters who punish with law and by breaking it, innocent little children that were perverted. You and the pedophile suffer the same disease, you just manifest it is socially sanctioned ways, totally evil, and they in ways that guarantee they get to enjoy feeling evil.
You are quite normal in your thinking, but I know something and don't think like you at all any more. I have to carry all the pain that come my way on a cross, while you get to crucify others. You are morally weak because you dump your pain on others. There is only love.
I usually agree with Moonbeam, but on this one I differ. I think people who abuse young children need to be punished and separated from society, and I am perfectly content to make that capital punishment, or any other vengeful response. I have no mercy for that, and if anyone ever abused my daughter, I would sacrifice whatever I had to sacrifice to take their life in the most painful way possible.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
So since I think a society of laws should uphold them - suddenly I suffer from the same "disease" as a pedophile? Sure...:roll:
Also, I don't crucify others - I just think the law should be upheld and those who commit these sorts of crimes against the most innocent in our society should be held to account. Again - do they need help - yes but they also must pay their debt to society and their victims(not that this is entirely possible) before they are put close to a situation where they could commit the crime again.
Just because someone was once a child does not mean that those that commit crimes are innocent children. There is zero excuse and zero room for pedophiles and their apologists.
You are dishonest. You don't want to uphold the law. You want to use the law for vengeance. You want to grind down someone who has done great harm just as that person wanted someone to suffer. You are sick in the same way as the pedophile. You hide your sickness behind upholding the law and pretend you're justified. You do the work of the devil keeping humanity in sane. "My violence is justified says every violent person. I have a right to revenge." What you have are childish ego needs. Your self importance demands compensation. But you are condemned by your own hate. The endless cycle of violence destroying the world will only end when people one by one say enough. The resurrecting can only come if YOU die on the cross. You have to die completely to the notion you can ever even the score, There is only love and the weight of that truth is too much for small men.
You don't want to be small because it will remind you of how much you hate yourself but you were forgiven. But in your ego pride you won't let go. To become aware is to accept enormous pain. I wish you good luck.
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