[Business Korea] Nvidia dumping TSMC in favor of Samsung

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Aug 10, 2009
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#27
So it looks like AMD's assumed node advantage is melting down by the minute. Nvidia is now essentially dumping TSMC's 16 nm FinFet for Samsung's equivalent Business Korea reports.

Just for those who are unaware of the background story, this is a good read to explain how all of this happened.
Thanks. Sounds like a match made in heaven. They both pay ex employees of their competition to try and gain an advantage.
 
Oct 27, 2014
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#28
The rumor says AMD might jump to Globf for their VGAs on 2016, like previously said.. not sure if they are going to be able to do those huge dies running at high clocks with decent wields. Lets hope there's no more delays :( 28nm is time for you to go away
 

stuff_me_good

Senior member
Nov 2, 2013
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#29
So it looks like AMD's assumed node advantage is melting down by the minute. Nvidia is now essentially dumping TSMC's 16 nm FinFet for Samsung's equivalent Business Korea reports.

Just for those who are unaware of the background story, this is a good read to explain how all of this happened.
Good read.

No wonder nobody is willing to build fab in china yet.
 

oobydoobydoo

Senior member
Nov 14, 2014
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#30
2. Nobody should take Samsung lightly, this is why TSMC will pay dearly for their arrogance. GloFo is already onboard with Samsung's 14ff, so whenever they are ready, expect it for AMD products.
This.

Judging by the performance of the Exynos 7420 Samsung has arguably the best process in the business with 14nmFF. I would not take them lightly. However, I am skeptical of this deal. I cannot recall an instance of Samsung working with a GPU manufacturer, and nVidia isn't really close to Samsung (or any other company anymore) in light of their patent trolling.
 

Black Octagon

Golden Member
Dec 10, 2012
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#31
Very interesting. What if Samsung were also to follow Tom's Hardware's advice regarding AMD..?
 

oobydoobydoo

Senior member
Nov 14, 2014
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#32
Very interesting. What if Samsung were also to follow Tom's Hardware's advice regarding AMD..?
The main argument for this is the acquisition of the graphics IP that AMD has, because AMD's x86 license cannot be transferred (IIRC). Problem is AMD already sold much of its graphics IP to PowerVR, which is now used by Apple in Cyclone and Enhanced Cyclone. I'm not sure how this affects AMDs current graphics IP and whether it transfers, but we can assume that whatever benefit derived by Samsung from an AMD acquisition would probably not be much greater than what is offered by PowerVR to Apple. I'm not sure how much that's worth, and in any case I think matching PowerVR and Apple would be a best case scenario for a Samsung/AMD merger.

As somebody who knows a few people working for each of these companies, I can tell you anecdotally that they are totally different kinds of people and would not work well together. I don't think South Korean corporate culture is going to jive well with Sunnyvale. It just doesn't seem likely at all, and it wouldn't benefit either company all that much even if it did work out.
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
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#33
Could this be what Kepler patent trolling was all about? To get a better deal on samsung finfets?
Do you know what patent trolling is? Hint: it's not when real innovative companies that actually make and market products enforce legitimately obtained patents on legitimate technology
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
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#34
^ Did you read about the suit? NV say everyone is infringing. ARM's Mali, Qualcomm's Adreno, and Imagination's PowerVR are all infringing products. So that covers not only Samsung and Qualcomm, but ARM, Imagination, HTC, Motorola, Sony, LG, Hwawei, ZTE, Shaomi, and of course Apple. Basically anyone who does not have cross-licensing agreement with NVIDIA is allegedly infringing on NV's patents.

NV state they are suing Samsung first to set a precedent, or set an example, or something of that nature, and will go after the rest as they see fit.

Legit, no doubt. ^_^
 

gdansk

Senior member
Feb 8, 2011
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#35
The main argument for this is the acquisition of the graphics IP that AMD has, because AMD's x86 license cannot be transferred (IIRC). Problem is AMD already sold much of its graphics IP to PowerVR, which is now used by Apple in Cyclone and Enhanced Cyclone. I'm not sure how this affects AMDs current graphics IP and whether it transfers, but we can assume that whatever benefit derived by Samsung from an AMD acquisition would probably not be much greater than what is offered by PowerVR to Apple. I'm not sure how much that's worth, and in any case I think matching PowerVR and Apple would be a best case scenario for a Samsung/AMD merger
What IP do you have in mind?

The most relevant team I can think of, Adreno previously Imageon, AMD sold to Qualcomm.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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#36
Very interesting. What if Samsung were also to follow Tom's Hardware's advice regarding AMD..?
Very sound logic, I've been seeing it as a great bargain for Samsung or Apple for a long time now. AMD has technology, IP & engineers that align well to further Samsung or Apple's interests, not just in mobiles. We know both of these giants have a strong presence on desktops that could benefit. They would also love a chunk of the HPC & Server pie.

Also, something big about to happen??
http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/amd/interactive-chart?timeframe=5d

 
Apr 22, 2012
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#38
Very sound logic, I've been seeing it as a great bargain for Samsung or Apple for a long time now. AMD has technology, IP & engineers that align well to further Samsung or Apple's interests, not just in mobiles. We know both of these giants have a strong presence on desktops that could benefit. They would also love a chunk of the HPC & Server pie.

Also, something big about to happen??
http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/amd/interactive-chart?timeframe=5d

Seems somebody is just toying with the stock:
http://investorplace.com/2015/02/th...s-and-general-motors-company-gm/#.VNSUyk10wuV
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
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#39
^ Did you read about the suit? NV say everyone is infringing. ARM's Mali, Qualcomm's Adreno, and Imagination's PowerVR are all infringing products. So that covers not only Samsung and Qualcomm, but ARM, Imagination, HTC, Motorola, Sony, LG, Hwawei, ZTE, Shaomi, and of course Apple. Basically anyone who does not have cross-licensing agreement with NVIDIA is allegedly infringing on NV's patents.

NV state they are suing Samsung first to set a precedent, or set an example, or something of that nature, and will go after the rest as they see fit.

Legit, no doubt. ^_^
Any reasoned definition of patent trolling doesn't include companies which actually manufacture real products including the patented technology. A big part of the "patent trolling" phenomenon is that patent trolls dont make anything, they have no skin in the game, and so the normal strategy of cross-licensing is worthless because they don't actually do anything but sue the world. There is no definition of patent trolling that would include this suit by nVidia. Anyone who says so is just anti-patent altogether and using the term "patent troll" as a weak disguise to try and imbue their viewpoint with buzzword appeal. The intellectually honest thing is to come out as anti-patent instead of acting like literally everyone who ever enforces IP is a troll... [not talking about you in particular, just generally]
 
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el etro

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2013
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#40
Will be a very good thing for AMD if the buyout is true.

Also, it means Samsung has even more ambitious plans for the future if they want AMD tech.
 
Feb 12, 2015
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#41
It's official.

Nvidia starts to use Samsung as a chip manufacturing partner – company

Nvidia Corp. and Samsung Electronics have quietly signed an agreement under which the latter will produce computer chips for the former. At present, it is unknown whether Samsung will manufacture graphics processors or application processors for the chip designer, but it is obvious that Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. is no longer exclusive production partner of Nvidia.

“We utilize industry-leading suppliers, such as Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited and Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd, to produce our semiconductor wafers,” a statement in the company’s latest 10K filing reads. Previously, similar filings only said that Nvidia uses manufacturing capacities of TSMC.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/a...sung-as-a-chip-manufacturing-partner-company/
 

caswow

Senior member
Sep 18, 2013
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#42
Its more tsmc dumping nvidia in favor of apple...
 
Apr 22, 2012
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#44
Seems to be Tegra style SoCs. Also fits in since Samsung doesnt have a high power node.
 

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
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#45
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaahAHAHA

I really really really hope this involves HP graphic cards as well. TSMC can go to hell for all I care. They are the reason why we are still at 28nm.
They couldnt get a HP 20nm process running. They have been doing everything they can to please Apple and probably used less effort than what they wanted in getting a 20nm process running for graphic cards because of that. And TSMC are way behind both Intel and Samsung.
God knows how many times TSMC have screwed up. I won`t miss them at all

Even Qualcomm have said they had enough of TSMC. Two long established partners

Seems to be Tegra style SoCs. Also fits in since Samsung doesnt have a high power node.
You are forgetting that Samsung is working with GlobalFoundries with 14nm FinFET. The way from LP SOC process from Samsung to HP chips from GlobalFoundries may be pretty short. A lot of handshaking can happen when Nvidia start working with GloFo
 
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tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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#46
Isn't TSMC's 16nm FF+ supposedly better than Samsung's current 14nm FF other than the itsy bitsy tiny fact that it's not in mass production yet? Either way, it's really, really great another foundry has stepped up the competition. I'm hoping the Pascal will offer a greater perf/w improvement than Kepler did over Fermi (i.e. better than 2x). I would love to see GP104 be 2.25x perf/w over GM204.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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#47
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaahAHAHA

I really really really hope this involves HP graphic cards as well. TSMC can go to hell for all I care. They are the reason why we are still at 28nm.
They couldnt get a HP 20nm process running. They have been doing everything they can to please Apple and probably used less effort than what they wanted in getting a 20nm process running for graphic cards because of that. And TSMC are way behind both Intel and Samsung.
God knows how many times TSMC have screwed up. I won`t miss them at all

Even Qualcomm have said they had enough of TSMC. Two long established partners


You are forgetting that Samsung is working with GlobalFoundries with 14nm FinFET. The way from LP SOC process from Samsung to HP chips from GlobalFoundries may be pretty short. A lot of handshaking can happen when Nvidia start working with GloFo
TSMC isnt the issue. The market is. TSMC simply delievrs what the market wants.

Unlike TSMC, Samsung doesnt have any HP process.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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#49
Isn't TSMC's 16nm FF+ supposedly better than Samsung's current 14nm FF other than the itsy bitsy tiny fact that it's not in mass production yet? Either way, it's really, really great another foundry has stepped up the competition. I'm hoping the Pascal will offer a greater perf/w improvement than Kepler did over Fermi (i.e. better than 2x). I would love to see GP104 be 2.25x perf/w over GM204.
Yep, 16FF+ is better.

For discrete GPUs nothing is changed since Samsung doesnt develop anything for that. Its about the SoC customers.
 

ocre

Golden Member
Dec 26, 2008
1,594
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#50
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaahAHAHA

I really really really hope this involves HP graphic cards as well. TSMC can go to hell for all I care. They are the reason why we are still at 28nm.
They couldnt get a HP 20nm process running. They have been doing everything they can to please Apple and probably used less effort than what they wanted in getting a 20nm process running for graphic cards because of that. And TSMC are way behind both Intel and Samsung.
God knows how many times TSMC have screwed up. I won`t miss them at all

Even Qualcomm have said they had enough of TSMC. Two long established partners


You are forgetting that Samsung is working with GlobalFoundries with 14nm FinFET. The way from LP SOC process from Samsung to HP chips from GlobalFoundries may be pretty short. A lot of handshaking can happen when Nvidia start working with GloFo
no one delivered. Blame TSMC, where is glofo's 20nm HP?

You really aren't making any sense anyway. Samsung will not be producing GPUs anytime soon.
 

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