Bush's Sleeper Cells

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5843033/site/newsweek/
Aug. 27 - Karl Rove makes Chuck Colson look like a girly man. Colson didn?t have the audacity to go after John Kerry?s military record when President Nixon was looking for dirt on antiwar leaders. After researching Kerry?s medals, Colson, who now heads a prison ministry program, backed off. ?Maybe Chuck knew he was going to find Jesus back then because he had a degree of shame,? says a senior staffer to a Senate Republican.

The Kerry campaign thinks it has succeeded in discrediting the scurrilous attack on Kerry?s military service, but Rove got what he wanted. Instead of talking about a failed war in Iraq and a new report that shows 1.3 million more Americans living in poverty, we?re debating what happened in the Mekong Delta in 1968. The strategy ?came straight from the West Wing,? says the GOP staffer. ?Nobody should be confused.? Asked to explain, this Republican says Rove is smart enough to keep technical distance. But all it takes is a well-placed wink to activate a web of Bush family hit men, confidantes and deep-pocket donors. ?They know what to do?it?s like sleeper cells that get activated,? he says, likening the players to ?political terrorists.?

They sprang into action in 2000 when Bush was running in the primaries against John McCain. After getting beat in New Hampshire by McCain, Bush?s first event was at Bob Jones University in South Carolina. Standing next to Bush on the stage was a veteran who went right at McCain, questioning his Vietnam service while Bush remained silent. A whisper campaign told voters that McCain had a black child. (The McCains have an adopted daughter from Bangladesh.) McCain lost the primary; the veteran became a Bush administration appointee.

The charges advanced by the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth would never hold up in a court of law. These men would have us believe, contrary to Navy records and countless eye witnesses, that Kerry did not act heroically and had a grand plan to manipulate medals from the military.

Too bad Bob Dole got hauled into this mess. Once known principally as a GOP hatchet man, Dole had rehabbed himself over the years to war hero and sardonic wit. Then over the weekend he said all Swift Boat Veterans for Truth can?t be Republican liars. It?s the old where-there?s-smoke-there?s-fire routine. Why would Dole allow himself to be used like that? He must have forgotten how Bush?s father provoked him during the 1988 GOP primaries with sleazy allegations. When Vice President Bush approached him on the Senate floor, Dole blurted out, ?Quit lying about my record.? The remark helped sink Dole?s chance for the nomination.

My Republican mole on Capitol Hill says the green light has gone out to Republicans to do whatever it takes to get Bush elected. ?This is the way we hold onto power,? he says with disgust. Pollster John Zogby?s survey of battleground states taken last week as the Swift Boat controversy raged shows no fundamental change in the race. ?It?s running its course, and it may boomerang,? he says of the attack on Kerry?s heroism. The fact that the sleeper network has gone nuclear is evidence of Bush?s weakness, not his strength, says Zogby. ?If [the Bush team] weren?t seeing serious damage, they wouldn?t be hitting so hard so early. The president is on the ropes; there?s no other way of looking at it.?

A lot of Vietnam vets will never forgive Kerry for accusing them of committing atrocities. Kerry has conceded some hyperbole in his 1971 Senate testimony, but didn?t the Toledo Blade win a Pulitzer this year for uncovering Vietnam-era atrocities? Have we forgotten about the My Lai massacre and Zippo lighters burning down hooches? Maybe a few masochists want to debate whether Vietnam was a noble cause, but 58,000 of our soldiers died. The war was a waste whether you were on the right or the left. Kerry leveled most of his criticism at political leaders who didn?t tell the truth, and who sanctioned ?search and destroy? missions that invited war crimes. By the time Kerry testified in 1971, 44,000 American soldiers were already dead. The war had almost no popular support, yet another 14,000 lives would be lost.

The irony is that Kerry does have courage?the very quality this smarmy campaign seeks to denigrate. The rap on him is that he is slow to battle, that it takes a near-death experience to get him fully engaged. By assailing his heroism, the GOP may have done Kerry a favor. Maybe they?ve awakened a sleeping giant.

As we've been seeing for months and evidenced by Bush's flip-flop on not using 9/11 as a campaign focal point, Bush has no accomplishments on which to base his campaign so he runs on attacks and fear.
 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
3,750
0
0
I can't see how this man is electable. Over the last 5+ years (I used to live in Texas) my opinion of him has been that of a lead ball dropped into an abyss.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Shouldn't this be in the swift thread? Other threads that were loosely connected to the swift boat type stuff were locked.

CkG

No...this is about the Bush campaign's general tactics.

Just happens to mention the swiftboat veterans as part of it.

Give it a rest, CkG. ;)
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
I thought of posting this, but was affraid it would be buried in the dumb sticky. Good read, even if it's just an OP.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Shouldn't this be in the swift thread? Other threads that were loosely connected to the swift boat type stuff were locked.

CkG

No...this is about the Bush campaign's general tactics.

Just happens to mention the swiftboat veterans as part of it.

Give it a rest, CkG. ;)

Then I expect you to do the same regarding a certain other posters.;) There were locked threads that weren't specifically about the swifties locked.

CkG
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Oh yay, it's the consistancy police. :roll: Tell your story walkin' buddy. :p

On topic however, it seems that the smear campaign has done little to Kerry's numbers. Perhaps edged the two candidates closer together, but that's about it. And it could boomerang the more connections between the SBV4T and the GOP can be found. I think the voters tend to know where this is all coming from -- I mean the timing is certainly no coincidence.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Oh yay, it's the consistancy police. :roll: Tell your story walkin' buddy. :p

On topic however, it seems that the smear campaign has done little to Kerry's numbers. Perhaps edged the two candidates closer together, but that's about it. And it could boomerang the more connections between the SBV4T and the GOP can be found. I think the voters tend to know where this is all coming from -- I mean the timing is certainly no coincidence.

:roll: Yeah, it's a "coincidence" that it's an election season...:roll: You people are funny. You ignore the orchestrated front from the left and yet dream up this smoky room wink crap. Have you ever considered that the swift boat guys just don't like kerry and want what they consider the truth to be heard? Don't mind O'Neil has been after kerry for years...but yeah...it's just one big planned conspiracy.

Don't mind me or reality...you all can continue to believe in whatever you wish.

CkG
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Funny how CkG wants to defend Rove's dirty tricks.

:roll: Funny how you want to believe in smoky room conspiracy wink BS.

CkG

I don't see you criticizing the Bush campaign's smear tactics. You're either with them or against them.

Which is it, CkG? ;)
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Funny how CkG wants to defend Rove's dirty tricks.

:roll: Funny how you want to believe in smoky room conspiracy wink BS.

CkG

I don't see you criticizing the Bush campaign's smear tactics. You're either with them or against them.

Which is it, CkG? ;)

Are you a Republican? ;)

CkG
 

Gravity

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2003
5,685
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Stop avoiding, CkG.

Answer the question.

Oh the pressure! I wouldn't answer under these circumstances C.

Also, where will you go Conjur, when Bush is re-elected? Will you be posting from France in a condo beside Alec Baldwin?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: Gravity
Originally posted by: conjur
Stop avoiding, CkG.

Answer the question.

Oh the pressure! I wouldn't answer under these circumstances C.

Also, where will you go Conjur, when Bush is re-elected? Will you be posting from France in a condo beside Alec Baldwin?


I'd probably be posting from prison if I could get close enough to a Bush apperance to protest him. :D
 

Gravity

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2003
5,685
0
0
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Gravity
Originally posted by: conjur
Stop avoiding, CkG.

Answer the question.

Oh the pressure! I wouldn't answer under these circumstances C.

Also, where will you go Conjur, when Bush is re-elected? Will you be posting from France in a condo beside Alec Baldwin?


I'd probably be posting from prison if I could get close enough to a Bush apperance to protest him. :D

Nah, I really don't believe that your venom runs that deep, does it? I was in lunging distance to BC once. Actually shook his hand. It was very scary. He was tall as me, cold blue eyes and charismatic like the devil himself. For 12 seconds he made me feel like I was the most important man alive! BTW, his hand was soft, small and a bit puffy.

I don't loathe the dem opponents, wouldn't kill them or anyone else given the chance. It's not that I don't care, I don't consider murder one of my political options.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
Anybody who hasn't recognized that the use of smear tactics by the repubs being a long standing tradition apparently isn't actually awake in the conventional sense of the word. Just following the money and realizing that they won't denounce some of the more egregious offenders ought to say that, loud and clear... Oh, yeh, they make a show of maintaining some distance from the smearers, but it all originates from and is coordinated by the same sources...

And, as HS pointed out, gloating, in a previous thread, it's not over yet. Get ready for a tidal wave of rightwing sleaze and slime- they have no shame, no concept of fairplay, no sense of morality beyond winning... CKG is just following Dubya's lead in his refusal to denounce such tactics...
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Anybody who hasn't recognized that the use of smear tactics by the repubs being a long standing tradition apparently isn't actually awake in the conventional sense of the word. Just following the money and realizing that they won't denounce some of the more egregious offenders ought to say that, loud and clear... Oh, yeh, they make a show of maintaining some distance from the smearers, but it all originates from and is coordinated by the same sources...

And, as HS pointed out, gloating, in a previous thread, it's not over yet. Get ready for a tidal wave of rightwing sleaze and slime- they have no shame, no concept of fairplay, no sense of morality beyond winning... CKG is just following Dubya's lead in his refusal to denounce such tactics...


In my eyes, those who condone the sort of tactics the Republicans use are just as bad as the people who perform the tactics themselves. Void of conscience and morally bankrupt. Terrorism has many forms. Bush's form of political terrorism is simply disgusting and those that blindly follow him are equally putrid.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
0
76
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Anybody who hasn't recognized that the use of smear tactics by the repubs being a long standing tradition apparently isn't actually awake in the conventional sense of the word. Just following the money and realizing that they won't denounce some of the more egregious offenders ought to say that, loud and clear... Oh, yeh, they make a show of maintaining some distance from the smearers, but it all originates from and is coordinated by the same sources...

And, as HS pointed out, gloating, in a previous thread, it's not over yet. Get ready for a tidal wave of rightwing sleaze and slime- they have no shame, no concept of fairplay, no sense of morality beyond winning... CKG is just following Dubya's lead in his refusal to denounce such tactics...


In my eyes, those who condone the sort of tactics the Republicans use are just as bad as the people who perform the tactics themselves. Void of conscience and morally bankrupt. Terrorism has many forms. Bush's form of political terrorism is simply disgusting and those that blindly follow him are equally putrid.


"...they have no shame, no concept of fairplay, no sense of morality beyong winning...". Why should they? Rove is a known admirer of Machiavelli and the quote from Jhhnn sums up Machiavellianism quite nicely.

Machiavellianism: The political doctrine of Machiavelli, which denies the relevance of morality in political affairs and holds that craft and deceit are justified in pursuing and maintaining political power.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
30,602
2,586
126
Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5843033/site/newsweek/
Aug. 27 - Karl Rove makes Chuck Colson look like a girly man. Colson didn?t have the audacity to go after John Kerry?s military record when President Nixon was looking for dirt on antiwar leaders. After researching Kerry?s medals, Colson, who now heads a prison ministry program, backed off. ?Maybe Chuck knew he was going to find Jesus back then because he had a degree of shame,? says a senior staffer to a Senate Republican.

The Kerry campaign thinks it has succeeded in discrediting the scurrilous attack on Kerry?s military service, but Rove got what he wanted. Instead of talking about a failed war in Iraq and a new report that shows 1.3 million more Americans living in poverty, we?re debating what happened in the Mekong Delta in 1968. The strategy ?came straight from the West Wing,? says the GOP staffer. ?Nobody should be confused.? Asked to explain, this Republican says Rove is smart enough to keep technical distance. But all it takes is a well-placed wink to activate a web of Bush family hit men, confidantes and deep-pocket donors. ?They know what to do?it?s like sleeper cells that get activated,? he says, likening the players to ?political terrorists.?

They sprang into action in 2000 when Bush was running in the primaries against John McCain. After getting beat in New Hampshire by McCain, Bush?s first event was at Bob Jones University in South Carolina. Standing next to Bush on the stage was a veteran who went right at McCain, questioning his Vietnam service while Bush remained silent. A whisper campaign told voters that McCain had a black child. (The McCains have an adopted daughter from Bangladesh.) McCain lost the primary; the veteran became a Bush administration appointee.

The charges advanced by the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth would never hold up in a court of law. These men would have us believe, contrary to Navy records and countless eye witnesses, that Kerry did not act heroically and had a grand plan to manipulate medals from the military.

Too bad Bob Dole got hauled into this mess. Once known principally as a GOP hatchet man, Dole had rehabbed himself over the years to war hero and sardonic wit. Then over the weekend he said all Swift Boat Veterans for Truth can?t be Republican liars. It?s the old where-there?s-smoke-there?s-fire routine. Why would Dole allow himself to be used like that? He must have forgotten how Bush?s father provoked him during the 1988 GOP primaries with sleazy allegations. When Vice President Bush approached him on the Senate floor, Dole blurted out, ?Quit lying about my record.? The remark helped sink Dole?s chance for the nomination.

My Republican mole on Capitol Hill says the green light has gone out to Republicans to do whatever it takes to get Bush elected. ?This is the way we hold onto power,? he says with disgust. Pollster John Zogby?s survey of battleground states taken last week as the Swift Boat controversy raged shows no fundamental change in the race. ?It?s running its course, and it may boomerang,? he says of the attack on Kerry?s heroism. The fact that the sleeper network has gone nuclear is evidence of Bush?s weakness, not his strength, says Zogby. ?If [the Bush team] weren?t seeing serious damage, they wouldn?t be hitting so hard so early. The president is on the ropes; there?s no other way of looking at it.?

A lot of Vietnam vets will never forgive Kerry for accusing them of committing atrocities. Kerry has conceded some hyperbole in his 1971 Senate testimony, but didn?t the Toledo Blade win a Pulitzer this year for uncovering Vietnam-era atrocities? Have we forgotten about the My Lai massacre and Zippo lighters burning down hooches? Maybe a few masochists want to debate whether Vietnam was a noble cause, but 58,000 of our soldiers died. The war was a waste whether you were on the right or the left. Kerry leveled most of his criticism at political leaders who didn?t tell the truth, and who sanctioned ?search and destroy? missions that invited war crimes. By the time Kerry testified in 1971, 44,000 American soldiers were already dead. The war had almost no popular support, yet another 14,000 lives would be lost.

The irony is that Kerry does have courage?the very quality this smarmy campaign seeks to denigrate. The rap on him is that he is slow to battle, that it takes a near-death experience to get him fully engaged. By assailing his heroism, the GOP may have done Kerry a favor. Maybe they?ve awakened a sleeping giant.

As we've been seeing for months and evidenced by Bush's flip-flop on not using 9/11 as a campaign focal point, Bush has no accomplishments on which to base his campaign so he runs on attacks and fear.

:roll:
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,801
4,891
136
Originally posted by: Gravity
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Gravity
Originally posted by: conjur
Stop avoiding, CkG.

Answer the question.

Oh the pressure! I wouldn't answer under these circumstances C.

Also, where will you go Conjur, when Bush is re-elected? Will you be posting from France in a condo beside Alec Baldwin?


I'd probably be posting from prison if I could get close enough to a Bush apperance to protest him. :D

Nah, I really don't believe that your venom runs that deep, does it? I was in lunging distance to BC once. Actually shook his hand. It was very scary. He was tall as me, cold blue eyes and charismatic like the devil himself. For 12 seconds he made me feel like I was the most important man alive! BTW, his hand was soft, small and a bit puffy.

I don't loathe the dem opponents, wouldn't kill them or anyone else given the chance. It's not that I don't care, I don't consider murder one of my political options.





Who said anything about murder?




:confused: