• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Bush takes US closer to "Old Europe"

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Originally posted by: Zebo
Here is a good starting point. LMAO!

You guys want to see and old time 8th grade test that todays college grades could'nt even pass? I know I could'nt and have MS.🙂
This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 from Salina, KS. USA. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smoky Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, KS and reprinted by the Salina Journal. (Linda)




8th Grade Final Exam: Salina, KS - 1895

Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7 - 10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu., deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 hass a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for
incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per m?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per are, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates:
1607
1620
1800
1849
1865

Orthography (Time, one hour)
1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir,
odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences,
Cite, site, sight,
fane, fain, feign,
vane, vain, vein,
raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fermandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.


- -------------------------------------------------
Imagine a college student who went to public school trying to pass this test, even if the few outdated questions were modernized.
- --------------------------------
Gives the saying of an early 20th century person that "she/he only had an 8th grade education" a whole new meaning!

Yeah and everyone recieved that education.

 
Yeah and everyone recieved that education.
-------------------
Everyone attending Salina public schools did. None do now but maybe Andover Academy children?
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Rainsford
not because I'm dumb or poorly taught, but because I didn't read the book and listen to the lecture where the arbitrary epochs were stated.

Sure you were. Answer this one like the 8th graders had to:

6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.

No excel allowed, all pen and paper.. 7% is compounded anually.. do you even know were to start?

Are you saying this was memorization too? Or that HS grads should'nt be able to do this type of problem with ease?

Since the amount is compounded anually, you figure out the amount of interest for 12 months (107x5126 then divide by 1000, this makes it simpler than simply taking 1.07x512.6 if you get confused by fractions in multiplication) then long divide that by 365 to get the daily interest, then multiply that number by 258 days (8 months and 18 days). I haven't checked this, but I'm pretty sure that's the right approach, and I came up with it off the top of my head. I'm 100% certain that 8th graders of that era learned and memorized an exact approach. Which is fine, except that if they get a different problem where they haven't learned the approach, they won't know how to solve it.

I think you are missing my point in any case. I may have that wrong, I may be right. Fortunitly for me, I have my handy-dandy calculator that tells me the exact answer in less than a second. Now tell me, what is the value of being able to do that by hand, much slower than a calculator I might add? I'm not arguing that HS grads shouldn't be able to do it, but what is the value of being able to do so?

You assign arbitrary value to "the basics" and decide that is what is worth knowing, but what's the justification behind that reasoning? I know engineers at my college who can write code that does amazing things, but can't spell worth a damn. That is why they write in MS Word and use spell checker. I know of no computer program that can write code for you.

Your condecending tone aside, I'm sure they ARE many things you, or the 8th graders from 100 years ago, know that I don't. I'm equally positive than there are many things I know that you, and they, do not. Now, which one of us received a "bad" education? How do you make such a judgement in the first place?
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Rainsford
not because I'm dumb or poorly taught, but because I didn't read the book and listen to the lecture where the arbitrary epochs were stated.

Sure you were. Answer this one like the 8th graders had to:

6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.

No excel allowed, all pen and paper.. 7% is compounded anually.. do you even know were to start?

Are you saying this was memorization too? Or that HS grads should'nt be able to do this type of problem with ease?

1. This is an urban legend. It is made up. It did not exist.
http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.htm
Meaning, someone like you simply made it up and started distributing it around the net to prove their point, which they couldn't do otherwise.

2. These types of questions require nothing more than plugging it into the formula, which is A = P (1+(i/p))^np, where A is the accumulated sum, P the principle, i the interest rate, p the number of periods it is compounded in and N the number of such periods. :roll:

Pop quiz: What IS the interest? Feel free to use the formula I provided, a calculator, excel, pen, paper, C, Java or any other tool you please.
 
Originally posted by: glenn1
If the public school teachers and administration in this country weren't so completely shitacular, then they wouldn't be so afraid of testing. What chutzpah they have to now turn around and complain about the very methods we use to see how much of a f*cking disgrace their performance is.

[obligatory whine from the public school apologists] "but the teachers don't get paid enough! That's why they suck!" [/obligatory whine from the public school apologists]

No, their suckiness is completely independent of how much they are paid. The members of the SF 49ers are paid millions and the team still sucks. And to be perfectly frank, I'm offended at teachers whining about their pay when they are consistently outputing the worst performing kids in the third world. If anything, their pay needs to be cut for incompetence, indeed for many of them it should be cut to zero.

Ok let's be fair. (since I"m currently working on my masters in education I think I can at least toss out some ideas here).

Teachers aren't responsible for jack other than providing the information and trying to help the kids understand it. NO one can MAKE a child learn anything. The desire to LEARN is instilled (or rather should be) by parents and those who raise the child. The problem we have here today is that no one is raising the children. They're farmed out to undertrained day cares and pushed into overcrowded and overmanaged public schools. Both parents (in the rare instances where there are two) work at least one job each, sometimes two. Our heros are drugged out rapist sports figures and seedy lying politicians. Who the HELL is left to inspire these kids??? By the time teachers get em they're on the path to blah.

Teaching is important and a good teacher CAN make a difference...WHEN he/she is allowed to. Look at Jamie Escalante...probably the icon in great teachers. In order to help his kids excel he had to go AGAINST school administration and government policy. Today if anyone tried that they'd be done with their careers in 20 seconds flat. The government has NO IDEA what it should be doing to improve the education system and instead is meddling and micromanaging to extinction. The DOE is WAY out of control and is in very few cases right or helpful. NCLB is HORRIBLE, and 99% of all teachers will tell you that.

I think teachers make pretty good money overall. When I get my MeD I'll start in the mid 30's to lowest 40's...that's good scratch around here. BA's only pull in high 20's to low 30's, but that's still not bad to start when you consider the benefits and perks...as long as you truly WANT to teach.

You have to understand how LITTLE control teachers have anymore. Administrators massacre your lesson plans in order to fit their matrices to get government money so they can keep making 6 figures for doing squat but destroying the kids educations. Parents expect teachers to raise their kids, but not to discipline them, or teach them anything other than what THEY want them to learn, and in the way they think best...I mean hey, just because you have 6 years of schooling in cognitive psychology and education most mechanics know more about teaching...right? And don't EVEN get me started on ESL and diversity requirements.

Now add to this the push towards highly qualified teacher requirements (not all that bad of an idea, providing compensation is made), longer hours, less money/benefits...well, it's not getting pretty. We don't need more government in education, we need more education in government. We need total reform, complete overhaul, local authority, empowered teachers, business the hell OUT of the administration and school districts, parents to take responsibility, and about a thousand other things I can name that don't have a dang thing to do with teach shortcomings.
 
Have your fun, but the fact is that Catholic schools outperform public schools and they do it a fraction of the cost.

Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-City Children

Excerpt:

In a study published in 1990, for example, the Rand Corporation analyzed big-city high schools to determine how education for low income minority youth could be improved.2 It looked at 13 public, private, and Catholic high schools in New York City that attracted minority and disadvantaged youth. Of the Catholic school students in these schools, 75 to 90 percent were black or Hispanic. The study found that:

The Catholic high schools graduated 95 percent of their students each year, while the public schools graduated slightly more 50 percent of their senior class;

Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction;

85 percent of the Catholic high school students took the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT), compared with just 33 percent of the public high school students;

The Catholic school students achieved an average combined SAT score of 803, while the public school students' average combined SAT score was 642; and

60 percent of the Catholic school black students scored above the national average for black students on the SAT, and over 70 percent of public school black students scored below the same national average.
 
Rip. you failed to address this question...
Why did you even bring up liberals when this has nothing to do with them and everything to do with Bush's NCLB act?

I know it was just an oversight on your part. No way would you even consider not addressing a question posed to you.
 
Originally posted by: Gaard
Rip. you failed to address this question...
Why did you even bring up liberals when this has nothing to do with them and everything to do with Bush's NCLB act?

I know it was just an oversight on your part. No way would you even consider not addressing a question posed to you.

Because a lot of liberals think we should be more like Europe.
 
Unless you've been teaching in the inner city, your opinion on NCLB means squat. Is the NCLB going to make a difference when children go home to drug infested neighborhoods? Will the NCLB act make a difference when most inner city children come home to one-parent houses and the grandmother is taking care of the children? Will the NCLB act make a difference when education takes a backseat to other aspects such as living on a daily basis? That answer is a resounding NO! Riprorin you have good intentions but it doesn't equal realistic aspirations.

Privatizing schools and the NCLB act is not the answer. The problem is we have a breakdown in the family and it's a HUGE issue in the inner cities. I should know as I've worked with children and young adults who have to go through that harsh reality on a daily basis.

Second, why put the full blame on public education? Part of the blame should be on the individual, but that is neglected because politicians are afraid to blame anyone. I guarantee you that if inner city children had a decent and secure family to go to we wouldn't have these academic issues (low test scores, high drop out rates, etc...). I'm a firm believer in Maslow's theory of hierarchy. Take a good long look at the pyramid. If a person is to obtain the first part of that pyramid, they will need to fulfill their physiological needs: Hunger, thirst, and maintenance of internal state of the body before they can even reach the second plateau. If a child has an unstable family then that child will not have a chance in hell of reaching the second phase. How can that child have academic success if his or he physiological needs are not met? They can't and I've seen it all too many times. At this one particular elementary school, we had a student that was being neglected by his mother. He wasn't sleeping at night and his mother was out partying every night. The child would come into class and literally fall asleep while the instructor was giving his lesson. What is the school supposed to do in this case? My point is it's not always the school's fault! Bad parenting is at fault as well but it's never brought up because a) The Democrat's don't want to piss off their voting block which are the minorities and b) the Republican's don't want to start pointing fingers because they don't want to be accused of being racist. It's all politics and nothing more.

Moreover, privatizing is the answer? Pleaaaaaasssseeee. Its not! Will a privatized school pay for the free breakfast, lunches and free after school activities public school children now enjoy? I doubt it! In addition, what about special education? Will a privatized school pay to teach children with disabilities? Teaching special Ed children can be a costly endeavor and as we have all seen in the corporate world, it's all about cutting cost at the expense of the individual.

Let's take quick look at the charter schools and their horrible test schools. Since I'm not able to link the article I've pasted it. It's down a bit if you want to read it.

In the past five months, three major reports have been released showing that charter schools performed more poorly than public schools on the same tests. The most recent of them, issued this month by the Education Department, presented a re-analysis of data from the National Assessment of Educational Progress comparing outcomes for charter and public school students on these national exams.

There are issues within public education that need to be addressed. Not all public schools are failures and all you need to do is to compare a wealthy district with a poor district. In the wealthy district, you have parents that are well educated and academics are a priority! In the poor districts, you have good well-intentioned parents but most lack a solid educational background so they can't adequately support their children the way that they should. In addition, let's not even get into the limited resources issue.

In addition, did you know that Harvard University conducted a study and in this study they compared the word bank between 6 year old children from well to do neighborhoods and inner city 6 year old children. The researchers had found that the 6 year old children from the well to do neighborhoods knew more then the 6 year old children from the inner city but the real shocker was the 6 year old children for the well to do neighborhoods knew more then the grown ups from the inner cities! In essence, a 6 year old child knew more words then a 40 year old parent! It all starts at the home and until this is addressed we aren't going to fully address the academic issues we face in this country. No ACT is going to change that issue!

Riprorin until you actually start to work in the inner cities your opinion on this matter means nothing to me. I'm not being mean or nasty but how can you have an opinion if you've never faced the problems on a daily basis? There are some aspects of the NCLB act that I do like but I've rambled on long enough and I'm tired. Finally, I find it highly offensive that you need to call every democrat a liberal. Why do you need to label people? Do you think that all blacks are drug dealers and criminals? You do like to label people pretty quickly so I'm on the fence. I'm a conservative democrat and not a liberal so please don't label me.


CHARTER SCHOOLS FAIL TESTING...

Press of Atlantic City, The (NJ)

January 4, 2005
Section: Editorials
Edition: All
Page: A11

CHARTER SCHOOLS SHOW THE LIMITS OF FREE-MARKET IDEAL
-AMY STUART WELLS

In the past five months, three major reports have been released showing that charter schools performed more poorly than public schools on the same tests. The most recent of them, issued this month by the Education Department, presented a re-analysis of data from the National Assessment of Educational Progress comparing outcomes for charter and public school students on these national exams. It echoed the NAEP findings released in August by the American Federation of Teachers. Yet another report, released reluctantly by the Education Department this fall, looked at state exam data in five states and came to the same conclusion.


What are we to make of this? Proponents of charter schools say that we don't have enough data and that the schools have not existed long enough to be judged. Opponents say three strikes and you're out.

My own view is that there are important public policy lessons to be learned from a reform movement that was promoted as the answer to a failing public school system, and that cannot, 14 years later, keep pace with that system. As a researcher who has studied charter school reform in six states, I believe we should not interpret the recent reports as an indictment of individual charter schools. Rather, they should alert policy-makers to the hazards of building an educational-reform movement on top of untested rhetoric about market forces and public schools. I have seen some excellent charter schools, with well-trained educators and solid curriculums. They tend to be in more middle-class communities, where private resources augment the low level of public funding that charter schools receive. I have also seen charter schools run by people who collect the public funding while providing minimal services for low-income students who have few other options. And I have seen a lot of the charter schools that fall somewhere in between.

With such variation at the grass-roots level, it's not fair to say that all charter schools are failures. Yet clearly we have enough evidence to suggest that the free-market ideals that fueled this reform movement are at best misguided and at worst harmful to the most disadvantaged students. It was this rhetoric that persuaded lawmakers in 42 states to pass laws establishing some 3,000 charter schools. It is this set of principles that lawmakers must reconsider.

To better understand why so many policy-makers entrusted the education of so many children to an untested reform movement, we need to look back to the 1990s, when the allure of the market-dominated most public policy decisions. Smaller government, privatization of public services, less regulation, freer markets and more competition became the mantra.

In the field of education, politically conservative reformers and their well-funded think tanks passionately advocated free-market philosophy as the best way to force public schools to improve. They called for charter school laws to deregulate what they saw as an overly regulated public education system. They wanted more public money in the hands of private and independent school operators. They claimed that these more autonomous schools could do a better job with less money and thus force the public schools to either compete or go out of business.

What the bipartisan supporters of charter schools did not consider was that there was scant evidence to suggest this reform would actually improve public education. And in one statehouse after another, the free-market advocates pushed for charter school laws with no caps - or high ones - on the number of charters to be granted, and with the greatest degree of autonomy for the charter schools. Ultimately, the focus of the free-market reforms was to increase the quantity of charter schools while paying little or no attention to their quality. This is educational deregulation at its worst.

Now the national test scores support what state-level studies of charter schools have suggested for years - that free-market principles are not what is needed to improve public schools.

In this decade of growing free-market disillusionment, policy-makers should amend state laws to better support the high-achieving charter schools and close the rest. And I hope they will also remember the hard lesson learned from this reform: that free markets in education, like free markets generally, do not serve poor children well.

(Amy Stuart Wells is a professor at Teachers College of Columbia University and editor of "Where Charter School Policy Fails.")

Copyright, 2005, South Jersey Publishing Company t/a The Press of Atlantic City


 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Gaard
Rip. you failed to address this question...
Why did you even bring up liberals when this has nothing to do with them and everything to do with Bush's NCLB act?

I know it was just an oversight on your part. No way would you even consider not addressing a question posed to you.

Because a lot of liberals think we should be more like Europe.

You haven't lived in a European country so don't pass judgment on them.

 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Have your fun, but the fact is that Catholic schools outperform public schools and they do it a fraction of the cost.

Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-City Children

Excerpt:

In a study published in 1990, for example, the Rand Corporation analyzed big-city high schools to determine how education for low income minority youth could be improved.2 It looked at 13 public, private, and Catholic high schools in New York City that attracted minority and disadvantaged youth. Of the Catholic school students in these schools, 75 to 90 percent were black or Hispanic. The study found that:

The Catholic high schools graduated 95 percent of their students each year, while the public schools graduated slightly more 50 percent of their senior class;

Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction;

85 percent of the Catholic high school students took the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT), compared with just 33 percent of the public high school students;

The Catholic school students achieved an average combined SAT score of 803, while the public school students' average combined SAT score was 642; and

60 percent of the Catholic school black students scored above the national average for black students on the SAT, and over 70 percent of public school black students scored below the same national average.

And what you fail to mention is that the parents that send thier children to private schools have an investment in their children's academic success. I will guarantee you that most of the parents that have children in Catholic schools are involved in their children's academic success. As I stated earlier if a child has an unstable family then his or her chance of academic success greately diminishes. My sister went to a Catholic school and has since graduated college. Catholic schools can be a great place to educate your child as they do have a high rate of success but it takes a team effort between the parent and the school! Private schools do not tolerate the non-sense that public schools have to endure and I will guarantee you that the Catholic schools rate of academic success will greatley decrease if they were to take in ALL inner-city students. Plus, they would neglect the special ED children as they would be put into a cellar so know one would have to deal with their inadequacies. It will be the 1950's all over again.
 
I'm only going to state this once and I feel a mod should look at your post Riprorin. You have a Christian slant to ever thing that you post, I?m highly offended by it, and I think it needs to stop. I do believe that you should be warned because it's offensive to me and I'm sure it's offensive to other non-Christian forum members. Just remember that Bush isn't going to be the President forever. Once his 4-years are over the House, Senate and Presidency could all favor Democrat.

Anyway, I'd wish that you would refrain from your Christian rhetoric. It's getting old and I'm starting to feel offended by your remarks. I'm a forum member just as you are and I shouldn't have to wade through your Christian remarks.

-just a thought.
 
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Gaard
Rip. you failed to address this question...
Why did you even bring up liberals when this has nothing to do with them and everything to do with Bush's NCLB act?

I know it was just an oversight on your part. No way would you even consider not addressing a question posed to you.

Because a lot of liberals think we should be more like Europe.

You haven't lived in a European country so don't pass judgment on them.

Ok, so by that logic we can tell Europe to keep their judgements of us to themselves. ...didn't you on the left throw a fit when some of us suggested Europe butt-out of our elections?

CsG
 
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Gaard
Rip. you failed to address this question...
Why did you even bring up liberals when this has nothing to do with them and everything to do with Bush's NCLB act?

I know it was just an oversight on your part. No way would you even consider not addressing a question posed to you.

Because a lot of liberals think we should be more like Europe.

You haven't lived in a European country so don't pass judgment on them.

I've spent enough time in Europe that the Red Cross won't let me give blood anymore. 🙁
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Gaard
Rip. you failed to address this question...
Why did you even bring up liberals when this has nothing to do with them and everything to do with Bush's NCLB act?

I know it was just an oversight on your part. No way would you even consider not addressing a question posed to you.

Because a lot of liberals think we should be more like Europe.

This might be an obvious question, but rather than attacking your stupid generalizations, I'll ask, the article says the education system is becoming like that of "old Europe", any indications this is still the case? In other words, does wanting to be like Europe mean people want our education system to be like the old European education system, or hasn't it changed?

And anyways, there is a broad gulf between "we should consider what the Europeans say on some issues" and "we should be more like Europe". If you can't grasp that, maybe we know who has the educational "issues".
 
Originally posted by: tec699
I'm only going to state this once and I feel a mod should look at your post Riprorin. You have a Christian slant to ever thing that you post, I?m highly offended by it, and I think it needs to stop. I do believe that you should be warned because it's offensive to me and I'm sure it's offensive to other non-Christian forum members. Just remember that Bush isn't going to be the President forever. Once his 4-years are over the House, Senate and Presidency could all favor Democrat.

Anyway, I'd wish that you would refrain from your Christian rhetoric. It's getting old and I'm starting to feel offended by your remarks. I'm a forum member just as you are and I shouldn't have to wade through your Christian remarks.

-just a thought.

I didn't know that having a "Christian slant" is against forum rules.

If it is, then the mods should ban me.

Until then, I'll post as I see fit.

 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Have your fun, but the fact is that Catholic schools outperform public schools and they do it a fraction of the cost.

Why Catholic Schools Spell Success For America's Inner-City Children

Excerpt:

In a study published in 1990, for example, the Rand Corporation analyzed big-city high schools to determine how education for low income minority youth could be improved.2 It looked at 13 public, private, and Catholic high schools in New York City that attracted minority and disadvantaged youth. Of the Catholic school students in these schools, 75 to 90 percent were black or Hispanic. The study found that:

The Catholic high schools graduated 95 percent of their students each year, while the public schools graduated slightly more 50 percent of their senior class;

Over 66 percent of the Catholic school graduates received the New York State Regents diploma to signify completion of an academically demanding college preparatory curriculum, while only about 5 percent of the public school students received this distinction;

85 percent of the Catholic high school students took the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT), compared with just 33 percent of the public high school students;

The Catholic school students achieved an average combined SAT score of 803, while the public school students' average combined SAT score was 642; and

60 percent of the Catholic school black students scored above the national average for black students on the SAT, and over 70 percent of public school black students scored below the same national average.

That is an interesting, and totally unscientific, comparison. There are three obvious problems that I can see with the comparison and conclusion reached.

Problem #1: Private schools are selective about who they let in, and schools with better reputations generally attract smarter students and parents and students who are more concerned about education. Public schools must try to teach everyone, private schools generally attract (and admit) only those who are up to the challenge. It's the same at the college level, are Harvard graduates well educated because Harvard is a good school, or because the students are smarter than average to begin with?

Problem #2: I'm not sure where your "fraction of the cost" statement came from, but the Catholic school I went to cost far more than what my parents paid in education taxes. This enabled the school to have smaller classes and more personal attention, the number one factor for better students. Being selective about who was admitted, the school also didn't need to spend money on classes for less smart students who couldn't keep up with the "smart" class, because we were all in the smart class.

Problem #3: It's not just Catholic schools, it's every private school. Attempting to turn this into a way to hawk religion is silly, the fact that they are Catholic has little to do with it.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: tec699
I'm only going to state this once and I feel a mod should look at your post Riprorin. You have a Christian slant to ever thing that you post, I?m highly offended by it, and I think it needs to stop. I do believe that you should be warned because it's offensive to me and I'm sure it's offensive to other non-Christian forum members. Just remember that Bush isn't going to be the President forever. Once his 4-years are over the House, Senate and Presidency could all favor Democrat.

Anyway, I'd wish that you would refrain from your Christian rhetoric. It's getting old and I'm starting to feel offended by your remarks. I'm a forum member just as you are and I shouldn't have to wade through your Christian remarks.

-just a thought.

I didn't know that having a "Christian slant" is against forum rules.

If it is, then the mods should ban me.

Until then, I'll post as I see fit.

That's fine Rip. I don't want to see you banned or anything of the sort. I'm just stating my opinion on the matter and you are stating your opinion. Nothing more... Nothing less.

 
Originally posted by: Riprorin

I didn't know that having a "Christian slant" is against forum rules.

If it is, then the mods should ban me.

Until then, I'll post as I see fit.

You've got a lot of tempers flared because the multiple threads of the same thing over and over again is pretty darned near "Preaching".

Of course this tactic has worked for Bush and the Republican party so maybe you have a shot of converting the folks in P&N not on your side.

Guess we'll find out soon enough over the next 4 years. <shrugs>
 
tec699 -- great posts. you hit it right on the money and posted everything I was planning on saying in this thread 😉

my mom has taught in the inner city (Newark, NJ) for almost 20 years now, and what you say is true. it doesn't matter how great a job she's doing as a teacher if the kids and the parents don't care.
 
Originally posted by: Martin
1. This is an urban legend. It is made up. It did not exist.
http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.htm
Meaning, someone like you simply made it up and started distributing it around the net to prove their point, which they couldn't do otherwise.

Nice.

I agree others who suggest it comes down to community / atmosphere. There are Asians (and many others) who go to public and do very well. Is it because they're smarter? Is it because their schools are publicly funded? No, it's because culturally education is very important to them. Teachers are important but you can learn a lot even without a teacher. Back to those Asians, a lot of them spend extra time at the library and their parents teach them advanced math during the summers. Then we all know that in certain other communities education is not a priority and I've heard that kids that study will be treated like outcasts and ridiculed.

I suggest uniforms for public schools, enough discipline so that people can learn in and out of class without being ridiculed. And just enough money for buildings and textbooks. Fancy extracurriculars and even computers are just a waste.






 
Actually it's pretty easy, if no-one answered to threads they think insanely stupid they will quickly wither and die, and IF a person see that his threads constantly gets zero answers it might not be as fun posting them. But someone always seems to bite the hook.
 
Originally posted by: loki8481
tec699 -- great posts. you hit it right on the money and posted everything I was planning on saying in this thread 😉

my mom has taught in the inner city (Newark, NJ) for almost 20 years now, and what you say is true. it doesn't matter how great a job she's doing as a teacher if the kids and the parents don't care.

Thank you.

It amazes me that the people that have never experienced working in a poor district are the first ones to come up with these so-called solutions. It?s like telling a rape victim that you understand what they are going through but you don?t because you?ve never been raped! How can you relate to a person that has been victimized when you?ve never experienced it yourself. I hope that makes sense.

Most of the ills we face in society can be traced back to bad parenting. This is the main issue and it's a danger to society but the politicians refuse to tackle it head on because a) The Democrats don't want to piss off their voting block which are the minorities and b) The Republicans don't want to be accused of being racist and they don't want to look like they are discriminating against the poor. Imagine if the Republican party came out and stated that the main issue is the break down of the family and it's mostly happening in the inner city. The Democrats would have a field day, as would the NAACP. Both parties are at fault in my opinion. They look for other ways to bandage the problem but as we, all know it's only a temporary solution.

Again, the real issue is bad parenting. We have people pumping out multiple children and they should in way in hell be having children. In addition, let's not even get into teenage pregnancy. If you are poor and you are having children then that child is at a disadvantage in today's society. The child will suffer and no ACT is going to cure this dilemma. It starts at the home and every child needs a secure home so they can grow into fine adults. In addition, to fix the problem it's going to take time (think 20-30 years) but politicians want quick results. It's not going to happen and nothing will ever get fixed until we realize what we need to do as a society.
 
So tec699, what's the solution for bad parenting, specifically-- besides not letting people have more children. I'm not challenging you I'm asking honestly.

My answer would be better education! I think we could still compensate for the bad parenting by making schools more structured and more disciplined (heck even a longer day so they don't go home to nonsense).
 
Back
Top