Shinerburke your argument, when viewed in full context, makes little sense. Let me say this ONE MORE TIME: the ad was put on moveon.org so people could vote for it, they DID NOT vote for it. They DID NOT choose to use it. Are you that dumb to not understand this? Bush CHOSE to use Hitler imagery for one of his own REAL campaign ads. He is OBVIOUSLY equating Hitler with a certain someone, that is very clear, don't try and deny this and beat around the Bush. This is a disgusting, low-life, and outlandish move by the Bush campaign. If you want to associate yourself with these people then you are no better than they are.
Kerry has and will NOT EVER do any such thing, he will not stoop to the level of Bush and co.
Kerry has and will NOT EVER do any such thing, he will not stoop to the level of Bush and co.
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
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Red Dawn
Elite Member
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LOL, if the Democrats want to hit below the waistline all they need to do is show that clip from Moores movie where Bush sits dumbfounded for 7 minutes in front of a class room full of children while his brain short circuits after being told about the second plane hitting the WTC.
In my mind, it is fair to use advertising by democratcs AND their supporters against them. Considering the initial footage came from moveon, it is within reason to use for a campaing ad. Tasteless? Of course. Moveon shouldn't have made the ad in the first place.
Irony?
Irony?
If all you are going to do is create posts to inflame and insult you might as well not bother posting here again. Take this as a warning!
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
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My God you people are dense....the Bush ad has Hitler in it to show that elements of the left are trying to compare HIM to Hitler.....thus pointing out their anger and desperation. It's not that difficult to understand. Nice job at you guys trying to spin this though....the initial outrage was....well...funny because I knew from the moment I read the OP that it couldn't be right. So....I watched the ad for myself and it was easy...I mean easy to see that the ad as using the moveon.org sponsored ad to show the rage of the left. Now the lefties on here all come along with their "Well it's ok to use Hitler in an ad if it was paid for by a private company and or citizens. Riiiiiight. So the ad didn't get shown on TV by moveon.....it was posted on their website. Think they didn't know that having it there would let it be seen and then released into the Internet for perpetuity? Riiiiiiight. Once something like that is out there it isn't coming back.
One more time for the slow.....the Bush ad is NOT using Hitler to equate him to anyone in the Democratic Party...the ad is using imagery from a moveon.org ad to point out the flailing of arms and crying that some on the left are doing these days.
My take on viewing the ad is that it is trying to get across this message: "those hotheads on the left are the only ones doing mudslinging, I'm just keeping my hands clean and being presidential."
Probably has something to do with the fact that the last several months of negative campaigning against Kerry hasn't stuck as well as some conservatives would have hoped, and in many cases has made the Bush campaign look frustrated and hateful. The ad may have been designed to turn that image around - paint Kerry as a mudslinger (by association with moveon.org etc.).
That said, in a very Mooresque sort of way, the ad does throw an image of Hitler in amongst images of various Democrats. Most of us know the context of the ad, and the purported theme of the ad, and how the Hitler image makes sense in that context (mud from the left). It will, however, give some people a false association from the imagery.
The left is fighting dirty and the Bush campaign is clean?!? Well, over the last few years, there have been plenty examples of this administration repeating a lie frequently in the hope that if people hear it often enough, they'll start to believe it. Fortunately, the american public (or at least ~45% of it) isn't as easily brainwashed by propoganda as the German public was in the late 1930s...
Probably has something to do with the fact that the last several months of negative campaigning against Kerry hasn't stuck as well as some conservatives would have hoped, and in many cases has made the Bush campaign look frustrated and hateful. The ad may have been designed to turn that image around - paint Kerry as a mudslinger (by association with moveon.org etc.).
That said, in a very Mooresque sort of way, the ad does throw an image of Hitler in amongst images of various Democrats. Most of us know the context of the ad, and the purported theme of the ad, and how the Hitler image makes sense in that context (mud from the left). It will, however, give some people a false association from the imagery.
The left is fighting dirty and the Bush campaign is clean?!? Well, over the last few years, there have been plenty examples of this administration repeating a lie frequently in the hope that if people hear it often enough, they'll start to believe it. Fortunately, the american public (or at least ~45% of it) isn't as easily brainwashed by propoganda as the German public was in the late 1930s...
shinerburke: I suggest you just keep your original post in clipboard, and repost it every 5 posts on this thread 
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
- 17,112
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Ahhh once again we see selective outrage......the lefties on here get away with calling the righties everything from Hitler to Kool Aid drinking, tin foil hat wearing, baby killers and can get away with it.....let someone from the right post what is in my sig and BAM their post gets deleted.
You are allowed to post here at Anand's pleasure and as his agents, our pleasure. If you are uncomfortable with the way we run things then please go elsewhere as we are under no obligation to cater to your or anybody elses sense of fairness. This forum was created mainly to relieve ATOT of the endless bantering and flaming that usually results in any discussion of Politics and we can shut it down and prohibit futher discussions of politics if we so choose too and there is not a thing you can do about it! Further complaints from you or others about how we moderate this forum will not be tolerated in this Forum. Take it to PM or risk losing your posting privileges
Okay, I'm showing up a little late to the party, but let's see if I've got the gist of this: MoveOn.org sponsors a political ad contest. Among the entries is an amateur commercial that compares Bush to Hitler using specific imagery. Long story short, MoveOn.org had the good sense to remove the Hitler ad entry from their site, however now the Bush/Cheney campaign has resurrected it?
Yes, very interesting... And not only did they willingly post this ad, reversing the intent and now comparing democratic leaders to hitler, but then they e-mail the video electronically to the six million people on its e-mail list.
Wow, and some of you think that's OK? I didn't think it was at all acceptable when MoveOn.org did it, but at least you could argue that they're not an official campaign. What's the Bush/Cheney campaign's excuse?
Yes, very interesting... And not only did they willingly post this ad, reversing the intent and now comparing democratic leaders to hitler, but then they e-mail the video electronically to the six million people on its e-mail list.
Wow, and some of you think that's OK? I didn't think it was at all acceptable when MoveOn.org did it, but at least you could argue that they're not an official campaign. What's the Bush/Cheney campaign's excuse?
I seriously thought someone hacked the site and put an anti-Bush ad on there... how can a pro-Bush ad show him imitating Hitler?
Read the thread. MoveOn allowed thousands of submissions for possible commercials. This one was voted down and removed. The Bush camp then brought it back to attack Kerry.
First of all, thanks for the "well reasoned" bit for the rest of the post.
Funny, I make a post about the use of propoganda. I throw the case of Hitler using propoganda and the case of the administration using propoganda into the same paragraph, but I never explicitly say I think there are any similarities beyond the repetition of misleading/false statements with the hope that the statements will be believed. Yet somehow, it comes across to you as me saying "Bush==Hitler" - similar to how some people are going to misinterpret the Hitler image in the ad.
My point is - the best case "intention" for a combination of words/images isn't always what every member of the reading/watching audience will infer. For that reason, throwing an image of Hitler into an ad filled with Democrats is just as bad as the last paragraph of my previous post. I could have just as easily said: "the Bush administration uses propoganda" and compared it to one of thousands of other previous historical uses without making the Germany association, just as there were plenty of other hot-headed "anti-bush" pieces from moveon.com or elsewhere that could have been clipped to demonstrate how dirty the left is fighting in this campaign without creating the misleading Hitler association.
Just so we're all clear - Bush hasn't killed 6 million innocent Jews, nor has Kerry. Group hug?
shiner
Lifer
- Jul 18, 2000
- 17,112
- 1
- 0
Hey genius...I'm the one that posted the story about the moveon.org competition......yes the ad was eventaulyl removed from the moveon.org site BUT it was posted there for all to see and download....pretty shrewd actually....they post it....there is outrage....the remove it and disavow agreeing with it....but oopsie....it was posted for download and now it's out in the ether traveling to every little leftie extremist.......once it's out you can't pull that stuff back.
Since you seem to be REALLY slow let me say it again....the imagery of Hitler in the Bus ad is NOT....I repeat NOT being used to attack or compare Kerry to Hitler....it IS being used to show the extreme measure that some lefties will go to in their hatred from President Bush.
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