Bush needs to go

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chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
CAD:

You completely lost me on the "macro" bullsh**.

I have no problem spending money for the common defense. But you are forgetting about "the general welfare" of our citizens.

I realize the Bush supporters will contrive any excuse for the expenditure of tax money on Iraq now that their man has committed this country to utter folly. But $200 billion dollars, even if given as a tax refund, would have been more profitably spent in the U.S. We get NO security from the Iraq expenditure while we are failing to police our borders, ports, and airports adequately.

This kid is obviously struggling with the high cost of tuition and you right wingers assume he's some kind of slacker. And you wonder why people turn to liberal principles? You are your own worst enemies and like Bush the most potent force on the side of compassionate moderation. IF Bush loses (I still don't think he will.) it will be because he fed the special interest groups and ignored folks like this college student. People like this kid are elephants. They will remember this until the day they die.

Also, we weren't discussing what IS as much as what SHOULD be. I said "waxing philosophical". Yes, some people are still getting Pell grants and some people are still getting welfare, but under Bush and Clinton those programs have suffered severe cuts. I see it every day in the streets of Orlando. Go check out your local shelter for the homeless. We are not doing enough for the poor or struggling students.

Go ahead SH** on this student. Thirty to fifty other guys will read your "compassionate conservatism" and shake their heads.

They should be weeping for America....

-Robert
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: chess9
CAD:

You completely lost me on the "macro" bullsh**.

I have no problem spending money for the common defense. But you are forgetting about "the general welfare" of our citizens.

I realize the Bush supporters will contrive any excuse for the expenditure of tax money on Iraq now that their man has committed this country to utter folly. But $200 billion dollars, even if given as a tax refund, would have been more profitably spent in the U.S. We get NO security from the Iraq expenditure while we are failing to police our borders, ports, and airports adequately.

This kid is obviously struggling with the high cost of tuition and you right wingers assume he's some kind of slacker. And you wonder why people turn to liberal principles? You are your own worst enemies and like Bush the most potent force on the side of compassionate moderation. IF Bush loses (I still don't think he will.) it will be because he fed the special interest groups and ignored folks like this college student. People like this kid are elephants. They will remember this until the day they die.

Also, we weren't discussing what IS as much as what SHOULD be. I said "waxing philosophical". Yes, some people are still getting Pell grants and some people are still getting welfare, but under Bush and Clinton those programs have suffered severe cuts. I see it every day in the streets of Orlando. Go check out your local shelter for the homeless. We are not doing enough for the poor or struggling students.

Go ahead SH** on this student. Thirty to fifty other guys will read your "compassionate conservatism" and shake their heads.

They should be weeping for America....

-Robert
I'll repeat again. Federal money for education is at an all time high. What part of that didn't sink in?
Also, your continued attempts at comparing Iraq to pell grants or education spending is still BS.

But sure "WE" aren't doing enough for the poor - maybe "WE" should get off our fat duffs and help them instead of expecting the gov't to do it for us.

But whatever - you can keep believing in what you wish, but I believe the Fed gov't isn't intended to help cure your every ill. The gov't doesn't have a place in my every day dealings. Someday I hope people wake up and realize that the gov't isn't the cure-all, and that infact giving the gov't more "responsibility" actually limits your freedom.
But like I said - believe in what you wish - someday this college kid will hit the real world and see that he has to do things on his own instead of looking to the gov't for everything....well - hopefully he does. I find it disheartening that he tries to blame Bush for his father loosing his job though - seems hate has disrupted his cognitive thinking abilities.

CkG
 

Dufman

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2002
1,949
0
0
Originally posted by: chess9
CAD: You completely lost me on the "macro" bullsh**. I have no problem spending money for the common defense. But you are forgetting about "the general welfare" of our citizens. I realize the Bush supporters will contrive any excuse for the expenditure of tax money on Iraq now that their man has committed this country to utter folly. But $200 billion dollars, even if given as a tax refund, would have been more profitably spent in the U.S. We get NO security from the Iraq expenditure while we are failing to police our borders, ports, and airports adequately. This kid is obviously struggling with the high cost of tuition and you right wingers assume he's some kind of slacker. And you wonder why people turn to liberal principles? You are your own worst enemies and like Bush the most potent force on the side of compassionate moderation. IF Bush loses (I still don't think he will.) it will be because he fed the special interest groups and ignored folks like this college student. People like this kid are elephants. They will remember this until the day they die. Also, we weren't discussing what IS as much as what SHOULD be. I said "waxing philosophical". Yes, some people are still getting Pell grants and some people are still getting welfare, but under Bush and Clinton those programs have suffered severe cuts. I see it every day in the streets of Orlando. Go check out your local shelter for the homeless. We are not doing enough for the poor or struggling students. Go ahead SH** on this student. Thirty to fifty other guys will read your "compassionate conservatism" and shake their heads. They should be weeping for America.... -Robert
its about time a liberal posts something here.
thank you
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
CAD:

I don't believe the Federal Government is intended to cure every ill. Just the ills of the pharmaceutical industry, energy industry, military industrial complex, and those earning over $200K a year.

God forbid that a steelworker should have a job, or a S.C. mill worker should expect to be able to feed his or her family.

God forbid that any of the, what, almost 200,000 people who lost jobs last month should get any help. But we are going to rebuild Iraq with OUR TAX MONEY.

Maybe the American people will wake up by November, but I doubt it.

-Robert
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,732
5,166
126
Bush needs to go?

I find that difficult to believe. He has already sh!t and pissed on America and the world enough for several lifetimes.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: chess9
CAD:

I don't believe the Federal Government is intended to cure every ill. Just the ills of the pharmaceutical industry, energy industry, military industrial complex, and those earning over $200K a year.

God forbid that a steelworker should have a job, or a S.C. mill worker should expect to be able to feed his or her family.

God forbid that any of the, what, almost 200,000 people who lost jobs last month should get any help. But we are going to rebuild Iraq with OUR TAX MONEY.

Maybe the American people will wake up by November, but I doubt it.

-Robert
The Federal gov't does not guarantee you a job. It never will. Again - trying to correlate Iraq with some perceived ill you can conjur up doesn't make them related.

CkG
 

Dufman

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2002
1,949
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: chess9 CAD: You completely lost me on the "macro" bullsh**. I have no problem spending money for the common defense. But you are forgetting about "the general welfare" of our citizens. I realize the Bush supporters will contrive any excuse for the expenditure of tax money on Iraq now that their man has committed this country to utter folly. But $200 billion dollars, even if given as a tax refund, would have been more profitably spent in the U.S. We get NO security from the Iraq expenditure while we are failing to police our borders, ports, and airports adequately. This kid is obviously struggling with the high cost of tuition and you right wingers assume he's some kind of slacker. And you wonder why people turn to liberal principles? You are your own worst enemies and like Bush the most potent force on the side of compassionate moderation. IF Bush loses (I still don't think he will.) it will be because he fed the special interest groups and ignored folks like this college student. People like this kid are elephants. They will remember this until the day they die. Also, we weren't discussing what IS as much as what SHOULD be. I said "waxing philosophical". Yes, some people are still getting Pell grants and some people are still getting welfare, but under Bush and Clinton those programs have suffered severe cuts. I see it every day in the streets of Orlando. Go check out your local shelter for the homeless. We are not doing enough for the poor or struggling students. Go ahead SH** on this student. Thirty to fifty other guys will read your "compassionate conservatism" and shake their heads. They should be weeping for America.... -Robert
I'll repeat again. Federal money for education is at an all time high. What part of that didn't sink in? Also, your continued attempts at comparing Iraq to pell grants or education spending is still BS. But sure "WE" aren't doing enough for the poor - maybe "WE" should get off our fat duffs and help them instead of expecting the gov't to do it for us. But whatever - you can keep believing in what you wish, but I believe the Fed gov't isn't intended to help cure your every ill. The gov't doesn't have a place in my every day dealings. Someday I hope people wake up and realize that the gov't isn't the cure-all, and that infact giving the gov't more "responsibility" actually limits your freedom. But like I said - believe in what you wish - someday this college kid will hit the real world and see that he has to do things on his own instead of looking to the gov't for everything....well - hopefully he does. I find it disheartening that he tries to blame Bush for his father loosing his job though - seems hate has disrupted his cognitive thinking abilities. CkG
My dads old company made carbon rods to be used in the melting of raw steel. He had 25 years of experience, and not clearing 30,000 a year. But that was enough for my family to live on. He had nothing to do with the actual producing, he was just a maintance man, fixing basic problems with machines, and donig ground work. That is not a skill job. But he did his best to provide for his family.

My home town was a factory town with normal hard working people. Thousands of people in my town lost their jobs. Since the foreign steel started to really pour into america there was much less of demand for steel producing materials. So my dad losI place no blame on bush for my dad loosing his job. i understand that buying imported steel is cheaper than producing it in america. It sucks.

Now, my dad sees his old bosses working at wal-mart so their families can have health care.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Dufman
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: chess9 CAD: You completely lost me on the "macro" bullsh**. I have no problem spending money for the common defense. But you are forgetting about "the general welfare" of our citizens. I realize the Bush supporters will contrive any excuse for the expenditure of tax money on Iraq now that their man has committed this country to utter folly. But $200 billion dollars, even if given as a tax refund, would have been more profitably spent in the U.S. We get NO security from the Iraq expenditure while we are failing to police our borders, ports, and airports adequately. This kid is obviously struggling with the high cost of tuition and you right wingers assume he's some kind of slacker. And you wonder why people turn to liberal principles? You are your own worst enemies and like Bush the most potent force on the side of compassionate moderation. IF Bush loses (I still don't think he will.) it will be because he fed the special interest groups and ignored folks like this college student. People like this kid are elephants. They will remember this until the day they die. Also, we weren't discussing what IS as much as what SHOULD be. I said "waxing philosophical". Yes, some people are still getting Pell grants and some people are still getting welfare, but under Bush and Clinton those programs have suffered severe cuts. I see it every day in the streets of Orlando. Go check out your local shelter for the homeless. We are not doing enough for the poor or struggling students. Go ahead SH** on this student. Thirty to fifty other guys will read your "compassionate conservatism" and shake their heads. They should be weeping for America.... -Robert
I'll repeat again. Federal money for education is at an all time high. What part of that didn't sink in? Also, your continued attempts at comparing Iraq to pell grants or education spending is still BS. But sure "WE" aren't doing enough for the poor - maybe "WE" should get off our fat duffs and help them instead of expecting the gov't to do it for us. But whatever - you can keep believing in what you wish, but I believe the Fed gov't isn't intended to help cure your every ill. The gov't doesn't have a place in my every day dealings. Someday I hope people wake up and realize that the gov't isn't the cure-all, and that infact giving the gov't more "responsibility" actually limits your freedom. But like I said - believe in what you wish - someday this college kid will hit the real world and see that he has to do things on his own instead of looking to the gov't for everything....well - hopefully he does. I find it disheartening that he tries to blame Bush for his father loosing his job though - seems hate has disrupted his cognitive thinking abilities. CkG
My dads old company made carbon rods to be used in the melting of raw steel. He had 25 years of experience, and not clearing 30,000 a year. But that was enough for my family to live on. He had nothing to do with the actual producing, he was just a maintance man, fixing basic problems with machines, and donig ground work. That is not a skill job. But he did his best to provide for his family.

My home town was a factory town with normal hard working people. Thousands of people in my town lost their jobs. Since the foreign steel started to really pour into america there was much less of demand for steel producing materials. So my dad losI place no blame on bush for my dad loosing his job. i understand that buying imported steel is cheaper than producing it in america. It sucks.

Now, my dad sees his old bosses working at wal-mart so their families can have health care.
And that sucks that your dad lost his job. It sucks that our steel industry didn't keep up with foreign steel. It sucks when plants close, but for anyone to expect Bush(or ANYONE) to wave a magic wand and make things better is fooling themselves.

CkG
 

Dufman

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2002
1,949
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: Dufman
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: chess9 CAD: You completely lost me on the "macro" bullsh**. I have no problem spending money for the common defense. But you are forgetting about "the general welfare" of our citizens. I realize the Bush supporters will contrive any excuse for the expenditure of tax money on Iraq now that their man has committed this country to utter folly. But $200 billion dollars, even if given as a tax refund, would have been more profitably spent in the U.S. We get NO security from the Iraq expenditure while we are failing to police our borders, ports, and airports adequately. This kid is obviously struggling with the high cost of tuition and you right wingers assume he's some kind of slacker. And you wonder why people turn to liberal principles? You are your own worst enemies and like Bush the most potent force on the side of compassionate moderation. IF Bush loses (I still don't think he will.) it will be because he fed the special interest groups and ignored folks like this college student. People like this kid are elephants. They will remember this until the day they die. Also, we weren't discussing what IS as much as what SHOULD be. I said "waxing philosophical". Yes, some people are still getting Pell grants and some people are still getting welfare, but under Bush and Clinton those programs have suffered severe cuts. I see it every day in the streets of Orlando. Go check out your local shelter for the homeless. We are not doing enough for the poor or struggling students. Go ahead SH** on this student. Thirty to fifty other guys will read your "compassionate conservatism" and shake their heads. They should be weeping for America.... -Robert
I'll repeat again. Federal money for education is at an all time high. What part of that didn't sink in? Also, your continued attempts at comparing Iraq to pell grants or education spending is still BS. But sure "WE" aren't doing enough for the poor - maybe "WE" should get off our fat duffs and help them instead of expecting the gov't to do it for us. But whatever - you can keep believing in what you wish, but I believe the Fed gov't isn't intended to help cure your every ill. The gov't doesn't have a place in my every day dealings. Someday I hope people wake up and realize that the gov't isn't the cure-all, and that infact giving the gov't more "responsibility" actually limits your freedom. But like I said - believe in what you wish - someday this college kid will hit the real world and see that he has to do things on his own instead of looking to the gov't for everything....well - hopefully he does. I find it disheartening that he tries to blame Bush for his father loosing his job though - seems hate has disrupted his cognitive thinking abilities. CkG
My dads old company made carbon rods to be used in the melting of raw steel. He had 25 years of experience, and not clearing 30,000 a year. But that was enough for my family to live on. He had nothing to do with the actual producing, he was just a maintance man, fixing basic problems with machines, and donig ground work. That is not a skill job. But he did his best to provide for his family. My home town was a factory town with normal hard working people. Thousands of people in my town lost their jobs. Since the foreign steel started to really pour into america there was much less of demand for steel producing materials. So my dad losI place no blame on bush for my dad loosing his job. i understand that buying imported steel is cheaper than producing it in america. It sucks. Now, my dad sees his old bosses working at wal-mart so their families can have health care.
And that sucks that your dad lost his job. It sucks that our steel industry didn't keep up with foreign steel. It sucks when plants close, but for anyone to expect Bush(or ANYONE) to wave a magic wand and make things better is fooling themselves. CkG
i dont expect anyone to wave a magic wand. i think it is great that i have the chance to go to college. i think more lower class people should have the oppertunity to get a higher education. i realize that there a lot of people who are not college materail, but for the ones who are should get their chance to better themselves.
 

amok

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,342
0
0
You know, its really really scary, but I'm finding myself agreeing with Cad and heartsurgeon a bit on this thread ;). The sad part is that I'm one of those whining liberals they like to poke fun of.

First of all, the "bright" kids as you put it, are already being taken care of. The ones that fall into that category are going to college on full ride scholarships, having their grad school tuition waved and getting paid a stipend, getting funding for their PhD research, etc.

As for those not quite in the "bright" category, as others have mentioned, it is possible to work your way through school. If you are working as much as you say you are and can barely pay your utilities/rent/general CoL, then you aren't utilizing your resources very well. Get some roommates, move into a cheaper place, shop at Wal-Mart for your clothes instead of Abercrombie, and in general budget your spending better. A few of members around here might jump in at this point to shout about me being a little rich boy who can say this without knowing a thing about it, but that wasn't the case back when I was in school. I did have an academic scholarship, but I got married right out of high school, and my wife had to pay out of state tuition, we had to pay all our bills, etc. We made it because we both worked our arses off, and budgeted our money. I do know what its like, and it can be done.

That being said, I do believe that a little relief doesn't hurt on occasion, and I'm a strong believer in the value of education. But do I believe that its the feds job to provide funding for college? Not so sure on that one. A lot of people take federal grants and the like and then drop out of school after a few years, so a lot of money is wasted. At this very second I have 13 undergrads going to school on my dime. About half are at state universities, and the other half are at technical schools and the more prestigious universities. Because I interview applicants for my scholarships, get to hand pick where my money goes, I have yet to have a dropout, even though 2/3 of them are from a very poor area with a very lackluster education system. Private funding through contributions may be a much more efficient way to help some of those in need.

i pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in income taxes each year..i do plenty of "charity" work, for which a get paid nothing, i have paid for a relative to attend a private college, i contribute to charities...explain to me again why liberals feel there is apparently no limit to what I am supposed to contribute to society (in the form of income taxes), while the bottom dwellers don't have to contribute ANYTHING to society.
Its not a matter of "bottom dwellers" not contributing anything. They should have to earn their keep, so to speak. At least that's the feeling among most of my liberal friends. I think, at least for the younger libs among us, we are moving away from entitlement attitudes and back to safety nets. Help our fellow man, yes, but only if he is willing to help himself in the process. Those sitting around with their hands out (including our seniors, unfortunately) get very little sympathy from the slightly more conservative libs among us.

As for the tax thing, I understand where you are coming from. No matter how much is leftover afterwards, it hurts having to write out those big checks, especially when you're forced to do it every three months ;).
 

SNC

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2001
2,166
200
106

That is untrue. You're the idiot and you enjoy personal attacks. You like being a jerk.

Dufman, ignore the elitist conservative hypocrites. They all got government handouts for their education. Now that they have their own money, they do not want to help others. Education is for the rich. They want labor dumb and cheap. It is easier to control.

America prospered thanks to our great support for education. The cheap labor conservatives want to set us back 200 years.[/quote]

Well, seeing that I never made it past the 9th grade, and never attended any college or any other school. Where is my hand out Ldir? I own a small computer repair/network installation business. And guess how I did it. That?s right.

I FREEKING WORKED FOR IT!!!!!!

There were no hand outs, no grants, and no loans. I worked 2 jobs and studied in my spare time. Now I do this as my only income. I hire brats right out of college that couldn?t wipe there ass with the paper listing the things that they can do. It?s not big enough. I have to teach them everything beyond, this is a mouse, and yes that?s the main board. Like everything in life. You get out of it what you put in. Except of course for taxes, the college brat gets that.
 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
4,584
2
71
Bush need to go indeed.

It's one thing that a President doesn't do much to help Americans.

But it's another when he's bent on destroying the middle class.

 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
4,584
2
71
Originally posted by: SNC
That is untrue. You're the idiot and you enjoy personal attacks. You like being a jerk.

Dufman, ignore the elitist conservative hypocrites. They all got government handouts for their education. Now that they have their own money, they do not want to help others. Education is for the rich. They want labor dumb and cheap. It is easier to control.

America prospered thanks to our great support for education. The cheap labor conservatives want to set us back 200 years.
Well, seeing that I never made it past the 9th grade, and never attended any college or any other school. Where is my hand out Ldir? I own a small computer repair/network installation business. And guess how I did it. That?s right.

I FREEKING WORKED FOR IT!!!!!!

There were no hand outs, no grants, and no loans. I worked 2 jobs and studied in my spare time. Now I do this as my only income. I hire brats right out of college that couldn?t wipe there ass with the paper listing the things that they can do. It?s not big enough. I have to teach them everything beyond, this is a mouse, and yes that?s the main board. Like everything in life. You get out of it what you put in. Except of course for taxes, the college brat gets that.[/quote]

Tax money has helped many a kid go to college, become engineers, and help design computers and such.....so people like you can have a business.

Don't be so ignorant.

 

amok

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,342
0
0
Tax money has helped many a kid go to college, become engineers, and help design computers and such.....so people like you can have a business.

Don't be so ignorant.
I have no problem with people receiving financial assistance to go to school. I just wonder how much tax money has been wasted on dropouts? Its not a very efficient system.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Let me add my sob story to this mix. This story has covered all types of presidents and scandals.
The economy has been up and down under both Republicans & Democrats. I can point the finger at both.

Went to a state engineering school. Was accepted at out-of-state schools but could not afford the tutition even with assistance.
Dropped out after 1 year.
Went back later on with a family to support - 2 kids + 1 one the way.
Wife did some part time work.
I worked 50hrs at night at a bank, went to engineering school in daytime. No Loans or grants.
Exit 5 years later with Engineering degrees.
Volunteered to stick my butt in the hottest fighter in the world at that time.

Now have my own independent S/W business.

Government handouts: None.
Taxes paid: ................. plenty.
Feel safe at home ....... yes.

Do not ask what the government can do for you.
Make something of yourself with your natural talents and stop looking for a free ride on some-one else's back:disgust:
 

SNC

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2001
2,166
200
106
Originally posted by: Ferocious
Originally posted by: SNC
That is untrue. You're the idiot and you enjoy personal attacks. You like being a jerk.

Dufman, ignore the elitist conservative hypocrites. They all got government handouts for their education. Now that they have their own money, they do not want to help others. Education is for the rich. They want labor dumb and cheap. It is easier to control.

America prospered thanks to our great support for education. The cheap labor conservatives want to set us back 200 years.
Well, seeing that I never made it past the 9th grade, and never attended any college or any other school. Where is my hand out Ldir? I own a small computer repair/network installation business. And guess how I did it. That?s right.

I FREEKING WORKED FOR IT!!!!!!

There were no hand outs, no grants, and no loans. I worked 2 jobs and studied in my spare time. Now I do this as my only income. I hire brats right out of college that couldn?t wipe there ass with the paper listing the things that they can do. It?s not big enough. I have to teach them everything beyond, this is a mouse, and yes that?s the main board. Like everything in life. You get out of it what you put in. Except of course for taxes, the college brat gets that.
Tax money has helped many a kid go to college, become engineers, and help design computers and such.....so people like you can have a business.

Don't be so ignorant.[/quote]

Well that simplifies it for me. So I can thank the government for taking my money and giving it to someone else, so they can go to school, so that I can have a job...... And here I thought it was much more difficult than that. Silly me. I guess then that I should vote for a Dem so that they can take more money from me to give to more kids, so that than they can go to school and make more things I can use in my business and make more money. No more needs to be said folks.

The answer is right here.

Simply put I owe my business to the government. Or is that the government owns my business.

Im really sorry for wanting to keep enough money to put my own kids through college. I should take that money and give it to the feds so that they can give it to someone else who is more deserving.

Either way I'm happy now. (with as much sarcasm as I cam muster)
 

Dufman

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2002
1,949
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Let me add my sob story to this mix. This story has covered all types of presidents and scandals. The economy has been up and down under both Republicans & Democrats. I can point the finger at both. Went to a state engineering school. Was accepted at out-of-state schools but could not afford the tutition even with assistance. Dropped out after 1 year. Went back later on with a family to support - 2 kids + 1 one the way. Wife did some part time work. I worked 50hrs at night at a bank, went to engineering school in daytime. No Loans or grants. Exit 5 years later with Engineering degrees. Volunteered to stick my butt in the hottest fighter in the world at that time. Now have my own independent S/W business. Government handouts: None. Taxes paid: ................. plenty. Feel safe at home ....... yes. Do not ask what the government can do for you. Make something of yourself with your natural talents and stop looking for a free ride on some-one else's back:disgust:
i would like to see the statistics on relation to income and gettting federal loans, or grant money. And have that compared to thoes who did it by themselves.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Originally posted by: Dufman

i would like to see the statistics on relation to income and gettting federal loans, or grant money. And have that compared to thoes who did it by themselves.
Stats do not matter. what matters is that one can do it with enough determination.
Goverment assistance helps, but it can be done without it.

As long as a few can pull themselves up with their own bootstraps (without help), it shows that others can follow.

 

DanceMan

Senior member
Jan 26, 2001
474
0
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
...
Government handouts: None.
Taxes paid: ................. plenty.
Feel safe at home ....... yes.
Well, not none. If you went to school, it was subsidized in one way or the other. State (state tax, federal tax, lottery, etc). Even private schools usually get non-profit status, or even some federal grant money. And you didn't come out of the womb ready to go to college, either. If you went to public school, taxes paid for that too.

You guys didn't do it all alone. You did it with the help of good ole American taxpayer money, plain and simple. Hey, I agree that government shouldn't provide you everything. But, I'm tired of the old saw that says government is not entitled to grant you anything, and that you have to be totally self-sufficient and responsible. It may be wrong to expect a handout, but it's not wrong to expect a hand -- especially if the pluses for doing so might outweigh the minuses.

DanceMan

 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
I really hate to say this, but your an idiot.
That is untrue. You're the idiot and you enjoy personal attacks. You like being a jerk.

Dufman, ignore the elitist conservative hypocrites. They all got government handouts for their education. Now that they have their own money, they do not want to help others. Education is for the rich. They want labor dumb and cheap. It is easier to control.

America prospered thanks to our great support for education. The cheap labor conservatives want to set us back 200 years.
The government didn't give me a single thin dime for college. .
Me either.
Did you got to college? Were your parents upper income?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
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Originally posted by: DanceMan
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
...
Government handouts: None.
Taxes paid: ................. plenty.
Feel safe at home ....... yes.
Well, not none. If you went to school, it was subsidized in one way or the other. State (state tax, federal tax, lottery, etc). Even private schools usually get non-profit status, or even some federal grant money. And you didn't come out of the womb ready to go to college, either. If you went to public school, taxes paid for that too.

You guys didn't do it all alone. You did it with the help of good ole American taxpayer money, plain and simple. Hey, I agree that government shouldn't provide you everything. But, I'm tired of the old saw that says government is not entitled to grant you anything, and that you have to be totally self-sufficient and responsible. It may be wrong to expect a handout, but it's not wrong to expect a hand -- especially if the pluses for doing so might outweigh the minuses.

DanceMan

I try to differentiate between taxes paid and the type of assistance that was being implied by the original poster.

Handouts := request/acceptance of funds to cover tuition costs earmarked for me personally from a government and/or private entitiy
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
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it is not bush or the republicans who taxes the midle class to death, it is the dems, are you even aware what planet your on Ferocious?

here is a statisitic many liberals are not aware of:

the top 1% of income earners pay 31% of all the taxes, AFTER bushes tax cut, that mainly benefitted the middle class.

the top 5 richest senators are all democrats(rhymes with aristocrats..)



here is a challenge for all democrats:

name one tax increase initiated by dems that did not gain the vast majority of it's generated money from the MIDDLE class...name just ONE..if you can.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
it is not bush or the republicans who taxes the midle class to death, it is the dems, are you even aware what planet your on Ferocious?

here is a statisitic many liberals are not aware of:

the top 1% of income earners pay 31% of all the taxes, AFTER bushes tax cut, that mainly benefitted the middle class.

the top 5 richest senators are all democrats(rhymes with aristocrats..)



here is a challenge for all democrats:

name one tax increase initiated by dems that did not gain the vast majority of it's generated money from the MIDDLE class...name just ONE..if you can.
Liberals can not accept that money should not be taken from those that are earning it and given to those who have not.

You could have a republican government that followed the liberal tax & distribute (shudder) policies and they would still complain.

I do not haear any of the big democrat money makers returning their tax cut back to the government.
Maybe they live on the what I say, not what I do principle.

 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
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You realize that our gov't can't possibly please everyone, right? After 9/11, I bet you were one of those people complaining about how our security was not good and our gov't should have done something to prevent it, right? Well, now everyone says that we should screw security and focus on other stuff. It's just flavor of the day. Today everyone wants jobs. Tomorrow, education. The next, security. What you are talking about has Zero to do with bush. Any other president would do the same thing. If they don't, they would be torn to shreds for not protecting it's citizens.

The ONLY responsibility our gov't actually has is to protect it's citizens. Everything else is extra. Look in the constitution. It's the gov'ts only real responsibility.
 

Zephyr106

Banned
Jul 2, 2003
1,309
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The ONLY responsibility our gov't actually has is to protect it's citizens. Everything else is extra. Look in the constitution. It's the gov'ts only real responsibility.
Uhhhh no not at all. Firstly the Preamble states that the government was created to ensure the very ambiguous topics of:

promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity
Secondly just perusing the Constitution's text I see in Article 1, Section 8 (Legislative branch), things like "To regulate commerce with foreign nations...", "To establish post offices and post roads", "To promote the progress of science and useful arts...."

Zephyr
 

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