Bush needs to go

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Dufman

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2002
1,949
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0
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: Dufman From the perspective of a college student President Bush is not doing a thing to help me out. A government should help out its people in need.
I read that far and then stopped....let me make this perfectly clear to you.... It is not the government's job to take care of you. It is your job to take care of you. The whole idea that the government owes you something and that you are entitled to be "helped out" is what has this country zooming on a bullet train straight to hell.
A majority of the people i know would not be able to go to school with out federal loans. more loans are needed. and this is a source of revenue for the federal gov becasue of interest rates.
 

Dufman

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2002
1,949
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Lets get some things clear here. I dont think totally relying on a government is a good thing. But if we are paying them money, then that money should be an investment in our well-being from our government. If we didnt pay taxes, then i would not expect a thing because i would not have paid in.

I will graduate college in the next year. I aspire to have a good paying job. None of these dreams would be possible with out the help of the federal governemnt, for me in the form of loan programs, and grants. That is something that america can NOT ignore.

And yes, local govenment should take control of highschool and lower education. But an important part of the money that their budget has is federal money. Could the typical highschool give a solid education...Yes. but government funding allows for better programs for bright students, helping disadvantaged kids, helping inderectly with extracirricular activites. and so on. Thoes special education programs for bright students, and disadvantaged respectivly is something that we need to have.

Education is the foundation to a great country.

 

SNC

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2001
2,166
200
106
Originally posted by: Dufman
Lets get some things clear here. I dont think totally relying on a government is a good thing. But if we are paying them money, then that money should be an investment in our well-being from our government. If we didnt pay taxes, then i would not expect a thing because i would not have paid in.

I will graduate college in the next year. I aspire to have a good paying job. None of these dreams would be possible with out the help of the federal governemnt, for me in the form of loan programs, and grants. That is something that america can NOT ignore.

And yes, local govenment should take control of highschool and lower education. But an important part of the money that their budget has is federal money. Could the typical highschool give a solid education...Yes. but government funding allows for better programs for bright students, helping disadvantaged kids, helping inderectly with extracirricular activites. and so on. Thoes special education programs for bright students, and disadvantaged respectivly is something that we need to have.

Education is the foundation to a great country.
I would be interested in just how much ?you? have paid into the system.
I bet my tax bill is more than you made last year.
When you start paying more than 23,000 in taxes than you can open your pie hole and demand some of it back to pay off your student loan.
Until then please keep your hands off ?my? money for your education.
I have 3 kids I am setting up IRAs for. So they won?t have to take money off hardworking people.
I don?t need another one.


 

FrodoB

Senior member
Apr 5, 2001
299
0
0
Originally posted by: Dufman
Lets get some things clear here. I dont think totally relying on a government is a good thing. But if we are paying them money, then that money should be an investment in our well-being from our government. If we didnt pay taxes, then i would not expect a thing because i would not have paid in.

I will graduate college in the next year. I aspire to have a good paying job. None of these dreams would be possible with out the help of the federal governemnt, for me in the form of loan programs, and grants. That is something that america can NOT ignore.

And yes, local govenment should take control of highschool and lower education. But an important part of the money that their budget has is federal money. Could the typical highschool give a solid education...Yes. but government funding allows for better programs for bright students, helping disadvantaged kids, helping inderectly with extracirricular activites. and so on. Thoes special education programs for bright students, and disadvantaged respectivly is something that we need to have.

Education is the foundation to a great country.

The family is the foundation to a great country. Educational performance is generally a function of parental involvement. I completely agree that we need special programs for each level of students. But that means NOTHING if parental involvement is lacking and family life is less than good. It's nice to see a college student actually think about these issues. Many people graduate college completely brainwashed and ignorant of the world around them.
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
I will graduate college in the next year. I aspire to have a good paying job. None of these dreams would be possible with out the help of the federal governemnt, for me in the form of loan programs, and grants
What kind of crap is this? Do you really believe this? And your a college student? You could get a job, save your money and go to school. You could go to a school you could afford (no grants no loans), you could borrow the money from relatives, or why didn't you or your parents save the money up ahead of time for school? Did you spend the money on a car?, a "gaming rig", or just party with your buddies?? Your myopic if you believe that you could not have attended college without the assistance of the Federal goverment. I know families that have taken out second mortgages on their homes to pay for a childs college, i know people that have worked their way through college. You are PRIVILEDGED, you live in the greatest country in the world, millions of people around the world would happily trade places with you, and be grateful, rather than whining about not getting enough federal assistance..your just a typical self-center, self-absorbed college kid...you've got great ideas about how to make the world a better place, without ever working a full time job, without having any responsibilities for anyone or anything other than yourself, and you probably have this wacky idea that everyobe else i the world thinks, or should think, exactly the same way you do. You are brimming with ideas about how to spend other peoples money (apparently beginning with giving you some more of it), but haven't contributed anything to the greater good of the world..

your gonna sing a different tune someday when you've got mortgage payments, kids, you contribute to charities, you try to good deeds for your community, maybe even the world at large, and some liberal politician gets on T.V and starts trying to buy votes from people by promising to take some more of your income, and giving it to somebody else..

i pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in income taxes each year..i do plenty of "charity" work, for which a get paid nothing, i have paid for a relative to attend a private college, i contribute to charities...explain to me again why liberals feel there is apparently no limit to what I am supposed to contribute to society (in the form of income taxes), while the bottom dwellers don't have to contribute ANYTHING to society.
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
And yes, local govenment should take control of highschool and lower education. But an important part of the money that their budget has is federal money. Could the typical highschool give a solid education...Yes. but government funding allows for better programs for bright students, helping disadvantaged kids, helping inderectly with extracirricular activites. and so on
I really hate to say this, but your an idiot. You've got to read more, do some research, and stop spouting off nonsense..there have been several studies looking at school funding levels, and academic achievement..they are UNRELATED! the main factor in academic achievement if peer group aspirations..if you are in a school where the kids are academically oriented, regardless of funding level, these kids score higher on standardized tests. it comes down to family expectations and peer group expectations. look at the D.C. school system..it spends nearly twice the national average in "educating" its high school students, yet it has among the worse levels of academic achievement..

you my friend are long on ideas, and short on knowledge or experience...

i just thought of another way you could fund you schooling..how about ROTC, or the National Guard...or full time military duty..you could get significant college benefits AFTER you contribute to the national good.

here's the link....you don't need any "federal assistance" - put your time in, and you will have earned your college tuition

Military Educational Programs
 

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
the greatest of the thinkers were mostly self-educated, they did not need a piece of paper delivered by a state run institution to be sucessful. they made themselves what they are through individual effort, talent, and self determination.

do not depend on the state to educate you, educate yourself! otherwise you will not be a great thinker, a good thinker, or especially even a free thinker. you will simply learn what the state wants you to.

the following question(actually this entire post) is not meant as an insult, even though it is worded strong. it is designed to get you to THINK.

did the guarantee that your life would turn out exactly the way you want it and fair pop out along with you at birth?


the fact is to be assured a job after college is to graduate in the top 2% of your class from a major university, and even then it is not automatic, are you studying in a field that is will result in a flooded job market for your particular skills? and it does not matter who is president, or in congress. the only person responsible for the success or failure of your life is YOU and ONLY you by the choices you make. the world/country does not owe you ANYTHING. you however owe dearly to yourself to make your life sucessful, and are the primary catalyst to make it so.

my son is studying to be an EE at UT-austin and he was told during an externship at AMD by none other than the chief architect that what matters is getting experience in your related field, sacrificing alot of fun and free time to work and study...which brings us to the age-old conundrum "i need experience to get a job, but to get experience i have to have the bloody job"

i feel your pain! :)

here is what you can do.


1. has been outlined above.

2. spend most of your time studying. miss many parties, skip many dates. your there to learn and give yourself advantage. the people who waste their time on partying will be the ones your supervising one day, or they will be the 30 somethings with 5 kids and working at mcdonalds with the nerve to actually wonder why they are there and cannot get a good job...

3. get involved in intern/externship programs ASAP. the guys with the line on the jobs at bigtech, inc. are the ones who interned there.

4. learn how to be a salesmen. that is, learn how to sell yourself, because when you get out in the RW that is exactly what your going to have to do.

5. never compreomise yourself to "get ahead" success is meaningless after you realize you have sold yourself out.


good luck! study hard!




 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: SNC
Two words for you. Get a job!
That's three. Three words for you: learn to count. Maybe that is proof right there that we need more education funding?
 

buckmasterson

Senior member
Oct 12, 2002
482
0
0
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: SNC
Two words for you. Get a job!
That's three. Three words for you: learn to count. Maybe that is proof right there that we need more education funding?
Three more words...learn to spell! This is unreal. Look at these posts, they don't teach spelling in College? Gifted?
 

SNC

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2001
2,166
200
106
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: SNC
Two words for you. Get a job!
That's three. Three words for you: learn to count. Maybe that is proof right there that we need more education funding?
WOW Mill!!!! You get to go to the candy jar. I guess the jest of my comment was missed.
You have won the prize. You get to fund this young mans education. Now he can keep his hands off my money.

I really have to wonder about a person that ignores 9 spelling errors in the original post, but because of a quip decides that more funding, via my money, is needed for the college brat.

Or wait..... Were you trying to be funny too?
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
I really hate to say this, but your an idiot.
That is untrue. You're the idiot and you enjoy personal attacks. You like being a jerk.

Dufman, ignore the elitist conservative hypocrites. They all got government handouts for their education. Now that they have their own money, they do not want to help others. Education is for the rich. They want labor dumb and cheap. It is easier to control.

America prospered thanks to our great support for education. The cheap labor conservatives want to set us back 200 years.
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
0
0
Did the student understand from these answers that capitalism is all about war? War for raw materials. War between brands for the minds of the consumers. War for the best positions. War for everything. Everywhere. Every day.
Ever you fight like a soldier or you lose.
Well, maybe we all lose after all. Does war make us happy?
Where are we going?
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
38
91
Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw
Did the student understand from these answers that capitalism is all about war? War for raw materials. War between brands for the minds of the consumers. War for the best positions. War for everything. Everywhere. Every day.
Ever you fight like a soldier or you lose.
Well, maybe we all lose after all. Does war make us happy?
Where are we going?
WE? You are FRENCH. Frenchman + War= White Flag. You and your people are no authority on war. STFU about it. Are all frenchmen like you? Are you that same frenchmen that came here a couple of months ago spouting conspiracy theories and anti-american rhetoric?
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Uh, let me see if I understand this discussion. It's ok for the U.S. to spend $200 billion in Iraq without any tangible evidence that we are safer, but a U.S. college student who is struggling to pay the high costs of tuition shouldn't be getting any help?

It's ok for the U.S. to give billions in foreign aid and trade benefits to Israel, Pakistan, Turkey, China, etc. but an American mother without a job and a couple of kids shouldn't get WIC or welfare?

It's ok for the U.S. to spend billions on sophisticated weapons systems, including nuclear weapons, but it's wrong to fund Head Start, Pell Grants, etc.?

I'm glad all you guys have silver spoons in your mouths and can wax philosophical about Libertarian and Jeffersonian principles while the poor go unfed and our children can't afford an education. Screw Ayn Rand and Jefferson. I don't want to see homeless people without shelters to go to. I don't want to see mothers with children camped under bridges feeding their kids coke, whiskey, or worse.

Some of you guys are uttlerly clueless about the real world. You are entirely fettered to electronic devices but are "unplugged" from reality.

-Robert
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: SNC
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: SNC
Two words for you. Get a job!
That's three. Three words for you: learn to count. Maybe that is proof right there that we need more education funding?
WOW Mill!!!! You get to go to the candy jar. I guess the jest of my comment was missed.
You have won the prize. You get to fund this young mans education. Now he can keep his hands off my money.

I really have to wonder about a person that ignores 9 spelling errors in the original post, but because of a quip decides that more funding, via my money, is needed for the college brat.

Or wait..... Were you trying to be funny too?
I didn't see any jest. Use an emoticon next time.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,116
1
0
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
I really hate to say this, but your an idiot.
That is untrue. You're the idiot and you enjoy personal attacks. You like being a jerk.

Dufman, ignore the elitist conservative hypocrites. They all got government handouts for their education. Now that they have their own money, they do not want to help others. Education is for the rich. They want labor dumb and cheap. It is easier to control.

America prospered thanks to our great support for education. The cheap labor conservatives want to set us back 200 years.
The government didn't give me a single thin dime for college. .
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: shinerburke
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
I really hate to say this, but your an idiot.
That is untrue. You're the idiot and you enjoy personal attacks. You like being a jerk.

Dufman, ignore the elitist conservative hypocrites. They all got government handouts for their education. Now that they have their own money, they do not want to help others. Education is for the rich. They want labor dumb and cheap. It is easier to control.

America prospered thanks to our great support for education. The cheap labor conservatives want to set us back 200 years.
The government didn't give me a single thin dime for college. .
Me either.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: chess9
Uh, let me see if I understand this discussion. It's ok for the U.S. to spend $200 billion in Iraq without any tangible evidence that we are safer, but a U.S. college student who is struggling to pay the high costs of tuition shouldn't be getting any help?

It's ok for the U.S. to give billions in foreign aid and trade benefits to Israel, Pakistan, Turkey, China, etc. but an American mother without a job and a couple of kids shouldn't get WIC or welfare?

It's ok for the U.S. to spend billions on sophisticated weapons systems, including nuclear weapons, but it's wrong to fund Head Start, Pell Grants, etc.?

I'm glad all you guys have silver spoons in your mouths and can wax philosophical about Libertarian and Jeffersonian principles while the poor go unfed and our children can't afford an education. Screw Ayn Rand and Jefferson. I don't want to see homeless people without shelters to go to. I don't want to see mothers with children camped under bridges feeding their kids coke, whiskey, or worse.

Some of you guys are uttlerly clueless about the real world. You are entirely fettered to electronic devices but are "unplugged" from reality.

-Robert
<- sheds tear

Now that certainly yanked a few heart strings...but it is pure BS. The Federal gov't is charged with the defense of this country(no that doesn't just mean our borders). That's fine you want to see the hungry fed and the poor educated, but to correlate that with defense spending is utter bowfing....Uh I mean bovine excrement. Education funding from the Feds is at an all time high so I don't want to hear any bitching about that. Also programs for the poor/hungry are also getting huge blocks of money from the feds. Here is a little something for you to read: "$5 Million In Food Aid Is Left Unspent Now keep in mind that was only D.C. Now again, what you clamored about is, on the surface, noble but inherently flawed since the Federal gov't wasn't intended to be a cure all for every individual. It is supposed to take care of the "Macro" business - not your every day ill.
Anyway - wanting to feed the hungry or clothe and educate the poor is a noble mission - and I have respect for anyone who dedicates their time to such causes, but what I won't stand for is people like you trying to compare it to the protection of America(which is something the Feds are actually supposed to be doing) and making charity a forced issue. Charity is supposed to be voluntary and given out of kindness for your fellow man - not forcefully taken from everyone by a Federal gov't which is not charged with those types of duties.

CkG
 

maluckey

Platinum Member
Jan 31, 2003
2,933
0
71
Let me see, I worked two jobs, sometimes three, on split shifts to pay for my college. My parents were "too rich" for me to get grants, and I didn't want a loan. I missed too damned many parties, but in the end, I got the sheepskin, and no overhead to weigh me down.

I never expected the Covernment to help out, and frankly, I would have been surprised if they had. Thomas Payne was right

Mommy and Daddy didn't give me anything, and Big Brother gave even less. What I did, was to take responsibility for my actions, and do what needed to get done to accomplish the task at hand. It's what many Americans don't do. Reliance on the Government to do your work, give you money, or to manage your morality makes you subservient. The Government should serve you, not the other way around. Get a grip on your own life first. Then ask yourself what you can do for yourself to help out through the next couple of years. You'd be surrised at how much you an accomplish without Big Brothers assistance. In the end you will attain self reliance and responsibility. The two things are sorely lacking in the world nowadays.

Not trying to be mean, just pointing out real life as I see it, after being out of college for almost twenty years.

Mark

Just had to add a bit of Thomas Paine to this, RE: Government personalities.

Interested men, who are not to be trusted, weak men who CANNOT see, prejudiced men who will not see, and a certain set of moderate men who think better of the European world than it deserves; and this last class, by an ill-judged deliberation, will be the cause of more calamities to this Continent than all the other three.
 

Dufman

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2002
1,949
0
0
While in college for the past 3.5 years. I have had 2 jobs the entire time. Thoes jobs did not to help pay for tuition but to pay for my rent, food, and utilities. I dont want federal money so i can get a big refund check so i have money to blow, i want enough to help me get through school. And i didnt spend my money on a "gamming rig" or on parties. I worked 70 hours in a week this summer to pay for my rent.

I was not born with a silver or even a bronze spoon in my mouth. My parents work had for their money and i appricate everything that they give me. But i am 21 years old and they should not have to support me any more, but they choose to do so.

If my tuition bill wasnt as low as it is this semester, i would not be able to attend college. When the "head of the household", a veteran, looses his good paying factory job becasue Bush allows foreign steel into the country, it is difficult to send one child to a private school, and one to a state college.

A recent article in my college's news paper says that vast majority of college students get some form of federal aid.
And i do not think my views are narrow minded, beause i know a lot of college students that recieve federal money to help better themselves.

 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
Charity is supposed to be voluntary and given out of kindness for your fellow man
No CAD, you are not keeping up with current liberal thinking in these areas...remember that Clinton invented Americorp....where America's youth can get paid to volunteer (I know, your confused again by the juxtaposition of the terms paid and volunteer). Linguistic lubricity is where it's at my conservative friend...depends on the meaning of the word "volunteer" or "charity"..
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
And if Bush had made the tariff on steel the WTO would have stepped in and other countries would have put tariffs on our products. Either way people would have lost their jobs, but I sympathize with you.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Charity is supposed to be voluntary and given out of kindness for your fellow man
No CAD, you are not keeping up with current liberal thinking in these areas...remember that Clinton invented Americorp....where America's youth can get paid to volunteer (I know, your confused again by the juxtaposition of the terms paid and volunteer). Linguistic lubricity is where it's at my conservative friend...depends on the meaning of the word "volunteer" or "charity"..
:eek: sorry, I forget these things sometimes. Thanks for voluntarily helping me see the light. (paypal is on it's way;))

CkG
 

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