Bush "needs" a new 9-11 to get reelected

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dualsmp

Golden Member
Aug 16, 2003
1,627
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Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw
The concentration of the media means the concentration of the power to decide what truths get full publicity and what truths end up in the obscurity, in the minds of a few people.


Yes exactly. And if you try to bring any of these obscure stories into the light, the sheeple will just brand you a "conspiracy theorist", "mr. tinfoil" or maybe a "liberal". Sheeple think any story of importance will make it into the mainstream-- well, all I can say is that the sheeple have a lot to learn about how the media works {see above block quote}. These are the same idiots who will sit there and argue with you that professional WWF wrestling is real, or that the Janet Jackson "tittie stunt" was an accident.
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: dualsmp
Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw
The concentration of the media means the concentration of the power to decide what truths get full publicity and what truths end up in the obscurity, in the minds of a few people.


Yes exactly. And if you try to bring any of these obsure stories into the light, the sheeple will just brand you a "conspiracy theorist", "mr. tinfoil" or maybe a "liberal". Sheeple think any story of importance will make it into the mainstream-- well, all I can say is that the sheeple have a lot to learn about how the media works {see above block quote}. These are the same idiots who will sit there and argue with you that professional WWF wrestling is real, or that the Janet Jackson "tittie stunt" was an accident.

Great post. I couldn't agree with you more. I can't believe people are so naive as to think the whole Janet Jackson titty incident was an accident. Pretty obvious if you think about the facts and actually watch the video. There's just overwhelming evidence that the whole thing was staged.
Dunno about the WW*E* though ;) I think most wrestling fans will admit that wrestling is fake. Hell, Vince McMahon even came out and said it was all scripted in an interview many years ago.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: Gaard
I have to ask alchy, exactly when will you rub his face in it? According to him, he isn't sure when it'll happen...only that eventually it will. I can say that the Detroit Tigers will win the World Series. I don't know when, but I'm certain that eventually it'll happen.

:)

OH he's given dates. Mid September.

So has Schizo Nitzcho. 35 days.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: alchemize


Calling you names doesn't help my argument, only punctuates it.

But I intend to *prove* you are a tinfoil asshat. i.e. that you have a butt for a head, or sh!t for brains. Because only someone with a rectum instead of grey matter in between the ears believes this stuff. :beer:

So again, you've stated it as fact. When it doesn't happen, I'll certainly be there to rub your stupid face in it. Feel free to do the same to me if I'm wrong, but of course the end of the world will be happening and we'll all be too busy to worry about that.

You've certainly proven me wrong with such a well-thought-out argument as that.... I bow to your superior linguistic skills, you cunning linguist.
Unlike you, I'm not worried about the end of the world. I look forward to it. I've considered posting on ATOT and rubbing it in your pagan faces when these things come to pass, but that's just plain wrong. I'd rather warn people beforehand than say "see, I told ya so" when it's too late. Unfortunately I can't say the same for you...
Once again, only time will tell who's right. I don't have a time machine and I'm not G-d so I don't know of any future events that are certain, other than what is written in the Bible. On the other side of the same coin, you have no more special insight into the future than I do, so how is your *opinion* any more valid than mine? Answer: it's not, and you should work on that ego problem before bashing others for what you perceive as their shortcomings.

Don't start backing away from your claims now. This isn't opinion. Mid-september, terrorist attack. Shortly thereafter martial law. We will not have free elections. My opinion will become infinitely more valid than yours when mine becomes fact and yours becomes another Hal Lindsey wanna be failure.
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: alchemize


Calling you names doesn't help my argument, only punctuates it.

But I intend to *prove* you are a tinfoil asshat. i.e. that you have a butt for a head, or sh!t for brains. Because only someone with a rectum instead of grey matter in between the ears believes this stuff. :beer:

So again, you've stated it as fact. When it doesn't happen, I'll certainly be there to rub your stupid face in it. Feel free to do the same to me if I'm wrong, but of course the end of the world will be happening and we'll all be too busy to worry about that.

You've certainly proven me wrong with such a well-thought-out argument as that.... I bow to your superior linguistic skills, you cunning linguist.
Unlike you, I'm not worried about the end of the world. I look forward to it. I've considered posting on ATOT and rubbing it in your pagan faces when these things come to pass, but that's just plain wrong. I'd rather warn people beforehand than say "see, I told ya so" when it's too late. Unfortunately I can't say the same for you...
Once again, only time will tell who's right. I don't have a time machine and I'm not G-d so I don't know of any future events that are certain, other than what is written in the Bible. On the other side of the same coin, you have no more special insight into the future than I do, so how is your *opinion* any more valid than mine? Answer: it's not, and you should work on that ego problem before bashing others for what you perceive as their shortcomings.

Don't start backing away from your claims now. This isn't opinion. Mid-september, terrorist attack. Shortly thereafter martial law. We will not have free elections. My opinion will become infinitely more valid than yours when mine becomes fact and yours becomes another Hal Lindsey wanna be failure.

I'm not backing down on anything. I don't back down, ever. It's not in my nature.
Try reading this:
IMHO, BY mid-September there will be another terror attack on NYC. I don't control this event so I can't say with 100% certainty it will occur by mid-September, just that it is my opinion this will occur with a high degree of probability.

Does that make sense to you? It's pretty straightforward if you ask me... Even a child can understand those two sentences, yet you keep having difficulties... Have you ever considered taking a remedial reading course or two down at your local adult education center? Perhaps you could just try not hating me for a second and simply disagree rather than attack?

Anyway, I hope G-d will open your eyes for you as He has opened mine, and I wish you all the best of luck in these last days.

G-d bless you.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: alchemize


Calling you names doesn't help my argument, only punctuates it.

But I intend to *prove* you are a tinfoil asshat. i.e. that you have a butt for a head, or sh!t for brains. Because only someone with a rectum instead of grey matter in between the ears believes this stuff. :beer:

So again, you've stated it as fact. When it doesn't happen, I'll certainly be there to rub your stupid face in it. Feel free to do the same to me if I'm wrong, but of course the end of the world will be happening and we'll all be too busy to worry about that.

You've certainly proven me wrong with such a well-thought-out argument as that.... I bow to your superior linguistic skills, you cunning linguist.
Unlike you, I'm not worried about the end of the world. I look forward to it. I've considered posting on ATOT and rubbing it in your pagan faces when these things come to pass, but that's just plain wrong. I'd rather warn people beforehand than say "see, I told ya so" when it's too late. Unfortunately I can't say the same for you...
Once again, only time will tell who's right. I don't have a time machine and I'm not G-d so I don't know of any future events that are certain, other than what is written in the Bible. On the other side of the same coin, you have no more special insight into the future than I do, so how is your *opinion* any more valid than mine? Answer: it's not, and you should work on that ego problem before bashing others for what you perceive as their shortcomings.

Don't start backing away from your claims now. This isn't opinion. Mid-september, terrorist attack. Shortly thereafter martial law. We will not have free elections. My opinion will become infinitely more valid than yours when mine becomes fact and yours becomes another Hal Lindsey wanna be failure.

I'm not backing down on anything. I don't back down, ever. It's not in my nature.
Try reading this:
IMHO, BY mid-September there will be another terror attack on NYC. I don't control this event so I can't say with 100% certainty it will occur by mid-September, just that it is my opinion this will occur with a high degree of probability.

Does that make sense to you? It's pretty straightforward if you ask me... Even a child can understand those two sentences, yet you keep having difficulties... Have you ever considered taking a remedial reading course or two down at your local adult education center? Perhaps you could just try not hating me for a second and simply disagree rather than attack?

Anyway, I hope G-d will open your eyes for you as He has opened mine, and I wish you all the best of luck in these last days.

G-d bless you.
And in my opinion, it won't happen. Will you feel stupid when September passes and nothing happens? Will you feel even more stupid after elections proceed normally? And, assuming Bush wins in 2004, will you feel stupid in 2008 when the next president takes over? Probably not. You'll just craft your interpretations to whatever the new set of facts are...but I'll be there to happily show that you were full of bunk.

I don't hate you, I pity you. Perhaps you should be the one focusing on remedial reading, because you've taken a rather huge skew of vague verses from a frequently (mis?)(re?)tranlsated text and attempted to apply it to modern times.

P.S. Not even an attempt to defend good ole Hal? He's saying (and has been for the past 30 years) the same thing you are.

P.P.S. I'm also rather disgusted by your notion that anyone who does not follow your "end-of-times" line of thinking is some kind of "pagan" or non-believer. Last time I checked, John 3:16 didn't have an escape clause.
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: alchemize


Calling you names doesn't help my argument, only punctuates it.

But I intend to *prove* you are a tinfoil asshat. i.e. that you have a butt for a head, or sh!t for brains. Because only someone with a rectum instead of grey matter in between the ears believes this stuff. :beer:

So again, you've stated it as fact. When it doesn't happen, I'll certainly be there to rub your stupid face in it. Feel free to do the same to me if I'm wrong, but of course the end of the world will be happening and we'll all be too busy to worry about that.

You've certainly proven me wrong with such a well-thought-out argument as that.... I bow to your superior linguistic skills, you cunning linguist.
Unlike you, I'm not worried about the end of the world. I look forward to it. I've considered posting on ATOT and rubbing it in your pagan faces when these things come to pass, but that's just plain wrong. I'd rather warn people beforehand than say "see, I told ya so" when it's too late. Unfortunately I can't say the same for you...
Once again, only time will tell who's right. I don't have a time machine and I'm not G-d so I don't know of any future events that are certain, other than what is written in the Bible. On the other side of the same coin, you have no more special insight into the future than I do, so how is your *opinion* any more valid than mine? Answer: it's not, and you should work on that ego problem before bashing others for what you perceive as their shortcomings.

Don't start backing away from your claims now. This isn't opinion. Mid-september, terrorist attack. Shortly thereafter martial law. We will not have free elections. My opinion will become infinitely more valid than yours when mine becomes fact and yours becomes another Hal Lindsey wanna be failure.

I'm not backing down on anything. I don't back down, ever. It's not in my nature.
Try reading this:
IMHO, BY mid-September there will be another terror attack on NYC. I don't control this event so I can't say with 100% certainty it will occur by mid-September, just that it is my opinion this will occur with a high degree of probability.

Does that make sense to you? It's pretty straightforward if you ask me... Even a child can understand those two sentences, yet you keep having difficulties... Have you ever considered taking a remedial reading course or two down at your local adult education center? Perhaps you could just try not hating me for a second and simply disagree rather than attack?

Anyway, I hope G-d will open your eyes for you as He has opened mine, and I wish you all the best of luck in these last days.

G-d bless you.
And in my opinion, it won't happen. Will you feel stupid when September passes and nothing happens? Will you feel even more stupid after elections proceed normally? And, assuming Bush wins in 2004, will you feel stupid in 2008 when the next president takes over? Probably not. You'll just craft your interpretations to whatever the new set of facts are...but I'll be there to happily show that you were full of bunk.

I don't hate you, I pity you. Perhaps you should be the one focusing on remedial reading, because you've taken a rather huge skew of vague verses from a frequently (mis?)(re?)tranlsated text and attempted to apply it to modern times.

P.S. Not even an attempt to defend good ole Hal? He's saying (and has been for the past 30 years) the same thing you are.

P.P.S. I'm also rather disgusted by your notion that anyone who does not follow your "end-of-times" line of thinking is some kind of "pagan" or non-believer. Last time I checked, John 3:16 didn't have an escape clause.

That's great. Too bad you can't see everything going on around you in the world for what it is. If the end truly were approaching, according to the books of Daniel and Revelation, do you think more people would believe it or disbelieve it? If you've read those books you already know the answer to that question and, in fact, Jesus even forewarned us that in the last days shall come people who scoff at the idea of the end. No one will believe. The fact that I am one of the very few who believes we are in the literal end times and everyone mocks me for my beliefs only reinforces my faith.
Concerning Hal Lindsay: I could care less what he believes. I put my faith in no man, especially not televangelists who are nothing more than wolves in sheeps' clothing come to destroy the flock.
Concerning John 3:16: can't you do any better than that? You can't use the word of the L-rd against one of His servants, it just plain doesn't work. John 3:16 is one verse in the Bible. One. It's so incredibly sad that people use this one verse as the basis for their beliefs/arguments and simply ignore all the rest. Salvation comes not through a simple belief in Christ, but through a belief *ON* Christ as well. Believing on Christ requires one to live as Christ did, not simply to believe that Christ died for the sins of mankind (although this is obviously a key belief). Christ detailed how one can receive salvation and he said to take up your own cross and follow him. We are to be dead or "useless" to the world.
That sounds a bit more detailed than simply believing Christ died for you.
Concerning your status as a Pagan: once again, I'm not just pulling this out of my ass here, there is a Biblical basis for this. If you're not saved, you're a Pagan. It's as simple as that. The Bible tells us that only a remnant shall be saved. Your words do not give one the idea that you have received salvation... Christ told us that we should judge a man by his fruits (this includes his words and his deeds). Words of pure hatred are rotten fruits.
I hope you can see that I'm not trying to attack you and I don't hate you in the slightest bit. I realize I come off a bit strong (to say the least) but zealotry for Christ is not an option. It is a requirement.

Good luck in your journey, and G-d bless you.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Thanks for answering my questions in a way that does nothing but prove my point :)

See you in 34 days (well see schizo nitzcho...he made the 35 day prediction). Then see you in late september, and again in Jan! I'll be looking forward to your mumbo jumbo to shift the timeline just a few months into the future...
 

Flyermax2k3

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2003
3,204
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
Thanks for answering my questions in a way that does nothing but prove my point :)

See you in 34 days (well see schizo nitzcho...he made the 35 day prediction). Then see you in late september, and again in Jan! I'll be looking forward to your mumbo jumbo to shift the timeline just a few months into the future...

That's fine. If I weren't a Christian I would be wishing to prove me wrong too... Christ tells us to look forward to these things though, for they must first come to pass for him to return. I look forward to Christ's return, do you?

G-d Bless
 

Rilescat

Senior member
Jan 11, 2002
815
0
0
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Flyermax2k3
Originally posted by: alchemize
Al Qaeda: We will destroy New York within 35 days. Threat on the Internet. Countdown begins.?

OH, OK I'll come back and ridicule the tinfoil conspiracist asshats on March 6th.

Flyermax2k3, when is martial law going to be declared? Time is running out...elections are coming.

Giornale claims the FBI blocked and removed the web site.
Yes, soon the FBI will block you too! muwaahahahaha you better run!

I'm not part of the illuminati, I really don't have any inside info here... All I know is that there is a very high probability that New York will be attacked by the middle of September, this year. Martial Law is sure to follow soon after.
You don't have to believe me now, but we'll see who's laughing in a few months when all you pagans are forced to take the mark of the beast and give up your eternal souls for the promise of "peace and security".
Good luck, and G-d bless.
Wow you guys are going to keep me busy coming back and posting what tinfoil fools you are (or I'll be back to eat my words. Well, I probably won't, since it will be the end of the world etc.).

OK, so I got on outlook and added 3 reminders:

1) Within 35 days, as quoted by Nitty head, confirmed by the "respected Italian newspaper Il Giornale based in Milan" (even though they were wrong about Feb 2nd) and unimpeachable Debka, New York will be destroyed. March 9th: call Schizo Nitzcho a tinfoil asshat.

2) September 24th, allowing for the "middle of september" to fully pass, call religous fruitcake FM2K3 a tinfoil asshat.

3) Jan 1, 05. After elections have passed without martial law being declared, once again declare FM2k3 a tinfoil asshat.

Depending on the outcome of #3, we'll probably be in for 4 more years of "well I was slightly off with my predictions, but mark my words you've seen the last free elections ever!"

By the way, the air raid sirens are going on outside! (monthly test). spoooooky! Don't you Hal Lindsey types ever learn? He's been predicting the end times for about 30 years now :)


TEH NOES!!! DON'T NOT TEH INSULTZ0R ME!!!oneone111111111!!!!!!
Don't you ever get tired of name-calling? It certainly doesn't help your argument any... I guess it must be an ego thing.

Let's get a few things straight here: I don't claim to know when the next terror attack will be, only that there is a high likelihood that there will be one before the current year in the Jewish calendar is up (i.e. mid-September). Al Qaida has stated that they will attack New York again, and our own Government has warned us of an impending attack on New York countless times. Why then do you think this is so off the wall?
Perhaps it's the whole martial law thing or perhaps it's because you don't want to believe your beloved President Bush is, in fact, a tool of Satan? Believe whatever you like. When it happens (and it will) let's just say I'm glad I'm not in your shoes.


Friend...you...are a tool.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
26 Days! 26 Days! Any day now, but we've got 26 days left! Ayieeeeeeeee!

Be back in a week or so.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw
Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw

[....]

The homestate of Gore was also electronically stolen from him, but I believe this info has been censored in the USA, like many others.
<hysterical laughter>"Electronically stolen"??? Dude! Have you ever visited Tennessee?!? How in the heck are you gonna "electronically steal" a 2 foot x 2 foot wooden ballot box?</hysterical laughter>
At one point, the results coming out of the count of the content of your 2 foot x 2 foot wooden ballot end up in a computer, that is where something illegal happened, which was not reported by the few billionaires deciding what their salarymen are authorized to say.
Never forget how many lies they have kept feeding you over the years!
You all immediately saw the picture of Osama Bin Laden on TV on 9-11.
You never saw the pictures of those who plotted against JFK, RFK, MLK,...just the pictures of some patsies.
There is an american journalist working in exile for the BBC, who on occasion reported how some huge news were reduced to 3 lines on page A40 of the NYT, because if reported on the front page the course of history would have been changed and that was not wished by a few very rich persons.
His site: http://www.gregpalast.com/
The concentration of the media means the concentration of the power to decide what truths get full publicity and what truths end up in the obscurity, in the minds of a few people. You are not one of these few people. Nobody elected them. They do what they want. If they agree to obscure some issues, how do you find out? You simply do not find out. Like in the USSR.
You can adjust the chinstrap on your tinfoil hat. The former Tennessee Governor, a Democrat, saw the race in his state from a different perspective.

A tale from Ned Ray McWherter's 2000 experience, told to a reporter last week, will illustrate.

He had made a 10-day trip through the state, mostly in East Tennessee, as a Gore surrogate campaigner and returned, as instructed, to give a report to the campaign's national headquarters in Nashville.

His travels, McWherter says, left him with a sense that things were going badly for Gore in his home state.

He had a plan, involving some personal campaigning by Gore, for turning things around.

"I sat there for about an hour in the headquarters, wanting to make a report to the people running the campaign. They sent somebody out and said they were busy.

"They put me off another hour or two and, well, my old butt got tired, and I got up and left. They were so busy they wouldn't even talk to me and I was going to tell them they were about to get the hell beat out of them in East Tennessee," he said.

"I left word with Johnny Hayes. He said he couldn't get in to see them, either," McWherter said. "They had other places to worry about, I guess."

From the state Democrats' perspective, it seems, the Gore national campaign took Tennessee for granted initially, then - after the Bush handwriting appeared on the wall - did nothing to reverse the trend.

The Gore campaign spent far less in Tennessee than the Clinton campaigns of both 1992 and 1996. Clinton won the state both times.
[you many now return to your regularly scheduled conpiracy theory already in progress]
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
0
0
Vote Fraud in Tennessee: Worse than Florida?

By Catherine Danielson, AlterNet
March 13, 2001

Black voters were told to get behind the white voters. They were told to remove NAACP stickers from their cars, or leave the polling place without voting. "You know what it is to stand at the back of the bus," said one election volunteer.

Some Blacks were intimidated by police standing around polling places. Others stood in lines over a mile long to use ancient punch-card machines on the verge of falling apart. Sometimes, they'd stand for five or six hours. Once, they complained. Minutes later, two police cars came screeching up.

It all sounds like a promo for "Mississippi Burning," or maybe a documentary about egregious civil rights violations in some Deep South backwater fifty years ago.

But it happened in November 2000.

Well, then, it's got to be about Florida. The massive voter disenfranchisement in Florida has gotten some coverage, especially overseas ? the people who weren't felons illegally scrubbed from voting rolls, the police roadblocks in Black neighborhoods, the Republican operatives illegally filling out absentee ballots.

But no. All these things ? and much, much more ? happened in Tennessee.

Don't be surprised if you haven't heard anything about any of it. Every newspaper, every radio station, every television news program has been silent. Even Nashville's Tennessean, where both Al and Tipper Gore once worked, has zero to say on the subject.

On the other hand, it's not as if it's been kept secret. Solid coverage has come from the Black press, newspapers like the Tennessee Tribune, Nashville Pride, and Urban Flavor. And yet there is massive evidence that thousands ? perhaps even tens of thousands ? of people were disenfranchised, the vast majority of whom were Black. How to explain the mainstream media's silence?

"People want to sweep this under the rug," says Rev. Neal Darby, head of the Greater Nashville Black Chamber of Commerce. "They don't want to think it could have happened here." Indeed, Nashville was one of the birthplaces of the civil rights movement. It's one thing to see films of Black students getting iced tea dumped over their heads by a jeering white mob as they try to get served at Woolworth's in the early 1960's. It's quite another to picture it in the year 2000.

It isn't just the outrageous racial incidents, such as the way that Black Nashville college students weren't permitted to vote even though they were registered, or the way that Tennessee State University, a historically Black college, was the only university in Tennessee that didn't get a satellite voting place, or election office workers harrassing Black citizens who requested voter registration forms, or election commission officers refusing to give registration forms to NAACP representatives and sometimes (as in Chattanooga) actually taking them back. It's the inexplicable things, such as the way that polling places all over West Tennessee opened one to two hours late, or disappeared and reappeared somewhere else without telling anybody ? but, seemingly, only in areas that were Black and/or poor. Or the missing pages from election rosters all over Nashville. Or the county where ballot boxes were opened and ballots handled.

So many vote irregularities were reported that the mind starts to numb after awhile, to get buried under the sheer avalanche and grasp for some sort of meaning and order. So it's instructive to note that there were three areas of evidence that are more disturbing than any other.

The first was what NAACP officers generally refer to as "the Motor Voter disaster." This was the first election year in which Tennessee's Motor Voter bill took effect. Citizens could register to vote at Department of Motor Vehicle offices statewide. The problem is, an unknown number of those applications never went through. There have been nearly 2,000 complaints to date. Allegedly, this occurred because the department failed to deliver completed forms to county election commissions. It's worth noting that there is no standard of delivery, nor supervision of any kind, when the applications are delivered from the Department of Safety to the counties ? and that the DMV blames the voters.

The second was the disenfranchisement of former felons. In the town of Bolivar, former felons illegally lost their voting rights. Clifton Polk, head of the local Black Chamber of Commerce, was so infuriated that he filed an official complaint with the EEOC. Since felons don't automatically lose their voting rights in Tennessee the same way that they do in Florida, this issue remains a murky mess. However, this was the first year it had happened in the state.

The third ? and maybe the strangest ? is the way that certain voting precincts all over the state had a small fraction of the voting machines they should have had, causing mile-long lines in predominantly Black, Hispanic and poor districts. According to election commissions, they simply didn't know there'd be such a large turnout. However, according to Tennessee State Election Commissioner Brook Thompson, each county sends a list of registered voters to the polling places. (The precinct list actually kept by volunteers often didn't match the voting list. Weird, huh?) Also, as state NAACP president Gloria Jean Sweetlove points out, the election commission knew about the NAACP Voter Empowerment Project, whose goal was to register new Black voters. Also, the commission knew that there'd been a record turnout for early voting. So, once again, this remains a mystery.

Looking at all of this evidence, you have to wonder what would come out if Tennessee had the same kind of investigations that Florida has had, and will continue to have. (Not to mention the fact that similar evidence has come out of twenty-one other states.) The national NAACP ? along with the ACLU, People for the American Way, the Advancement Project, and the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights ? has filed suit to eliminate unfair voting practices. They will be sending representatives to Nashville soon in order to hold hearings about voter disenfranchisement there. So Tennessee may well end up being added to the national suit, and that would probably be the best shot at investigation. Certainly, the state attorney general has showed little interest to date. Yet nobody else has either ? not the press, not the legislature, not the governor, not the senators. I couldn't quite put my finger on why that bothered me so much. I tried to put it into words when I talked to Gloria Jean Sweetlove.

"Why is it," I asked, fumbling towards words to express the inexpressible, "that I don't see anything about this in the papers, or on TV? Why will nobody will touch this?"

She gave a long, long sigh. "I don't think you're old enough to remember. But in the fifties and early sixties," she said slowly, "nobody would touch it either."

To learn more, please visit: www.nashvilleinsanity.com/NPbreakingnews.html
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
0
0
DIEBOLD VOTE SCAM: Possible Smoking Gun...
author: Empire Slayer
Repost of Interesting Article with Additional Information on Florida Election scams: http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/Thompson_Diebold-2000-Fraud.htm

Diebold Memos Disclose Florida 2000 E-Voting Fraud

The Diebold Memos' Smoking Gun Volusia Co.

Memos Disclose Election 2000 Vote Fraud

by Alastair Thompson
Dissident Voice

October 23, 2003

First Published in Scoop









"DELAND, Fla., Nov. 11 - Something very strange happened on election night to Deborah Tannenbaum, a Democratic Party official in Volusia County. At 10 p.m., she called the county elections department and learned that Al Gore was leading George W. Bush 83,000 votes to 62,000. But when she checked the county's Web site for an update half an hour later, she found a startling development: Gore's count had dropped by 16,000 votes, while an obscure Socialist candidate had picked up 10,000--all because of a single precinct with only 600 voters."

-- Washington Post Sunday , November 12, 2000 ; Page A22





Yes. Something very strange happened in Volusia County on election night November 2000, the night that first Gore won Florida, then Bush, and then as everybody can so well remember there was a tie. Something strange indeed. But what exactly? In the above report (click for full version), written days after the election, hotshot Washington Post reporter Dana Milbank goes on to attribute the strange 16,022 negative vote tally from Volusia's precinct 216 to an apparently innocent cause. "[F]aulty 'memory cards' in the machines caused the 16,000-vote disappearance on election night. The glitch was soon fixed," she wrote. But thanks to recent investigations into Black Box Voting by Washington State writer Bev Harris, we now know this explanation is not correct. In fact it is not even in the ballpark. According to recently discovered internal Diebold Election Systems memos, Global Election Systems' (which was later purchased by Diebold) own technical staff were also stumped by the events in Volusia County. In Chapter 11 of her new book, Black Box Voting In the 21st Century, released early today in PDF format at Blackboxvoting.com and here at Scoop, Ms Harris observes:



"If you strip away the partisan rancor over the 2000 election, you are left with the undeniable fact that a presidential candidate conceded the election to his opponent based on [results from] a second card that mysteriously appears, subtracts 16,022 votes, then just as mysteriously disappears."



Working in parallel with Ms Harris, Scoop has also been inquiring into the events on election night in Volusia county. Much of the material that follows is similar to that which appears in Chapter 11 of her book. The starting point in this shocking discovery about election 2000 came in a series of internal Diebold ES technical support memos. The following is an abbreviated version of the exchange concerning the peculiar events in Volusia county. For the purposes of research the exchange is included in full as an Appendix to this report (APPENDIX TWO). The discussion took place in early 2001 as an audit was underway in Volusia county into the events.



(NOTE: The names below each extract link to the full text of the emails in the appendices below)



I need some answers! Our department is being audited by the County. I have been waiting for someone to give me an explanation as to why Precinct 216 gave Al Gore a minus 16022 when it was uploaded. Will someone please explain this so that I have the information to give the auditor instead of standing here "looking dumb". Lana Hires - Volusia County Florida - January 17, 2001 8:07 AM My understanding is that the card was not corrupt after (or before) upload. They fixed the problem by clearing the precinct and re-uploading the same card. So neither of these explainations washes. That's not to say I have any idea what actually happened, its just not either of those... The problem is its going to be very hard to collect enough data to really know what happened. The card isn't corrupt so we can't post-mortem it (its not mort). Ken Clark - Diebold ES R&D Manager - January 18, 2001 1:41 PM - the negative numbers on media display occurred when Lana attempted to reupload a card or duplicate card. Sophia and Tab may be able to shed some light here, keeping in mind that the boogie man may me reading our mail. Do we know how this could occur? John McLaurin - Diebold ES - 18 Jan 2001 15:44:50 The problem precinct had two memcory cards uploaded. The second one is the one I believe caused the problem. They were uploaded on the same port approx. 1 hour apart. As far as I know there should only have been one memory card uploaded. I asked you to check this out when the problem first occured but have not heard back as to whether this is true. When the precinct was cleared and re-uploaded (only one memory card as far as I know) everything was fine. ... Given that we transfer data in ascii form not binary and given the way the data was 'invalid' the error could not have occured during transmission. Therefore the error could only occur in one of four ways: ... [4.] There is always the possiblity that the 'second memory card' or 'second upload' came from an un-authorized source. Tab Iredale - Diebold ES - 18 Jan 2001 13:31 If this problem is to be properly answered we need to determine where the 'second' memory card is or whether it even exists. Heh. Second shooter theory. All we need now is a grassy knoll. Ken Clark - Diebold ES R&D Manager - 18 Jan 2001 16:42:50 I will be visiting with Lana on Monday and will ascertain the particulars related to the second memory card. One concern I've had all along is "if" we are getting the full story from Lana. I'll be back in touch and thanks for all of y'alls (that's southern for all of you) help. John McLaurin - Diebold ES - Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:56:06



Unfortunately, whether or not John McLaurin got to the bottom of the mystery of Volusia County is something the memos cannot tell us. Searches of the Diebold memos database find a single follow-up memo from McLaurin about the Checksum Errors experienced in Volusia, but nothing on the mysterious 16,022 negative vote count. Which leaves us where exactly? What we know from the memos can be summarized as follows:



* Two memory cards were uploaded from Volusia Couny's precinct 216, the second one was loaded sometime close to 2am in the morning. It automatically replaced the first card's results and reduced Gore's total by 16,022 votes and added votes to Bush plus a variety of minor candidates;



* Both memory cards loaded into the system clean and without errors, indicating (contrary to the official line) that they were not faulty;



* After the error was noticed the original card was reloaded and the mistake was rectified; - The error was introduced in such a way that the total number of votes remained unchanged (again something that could not happen by chance.);



* According to the technical boffins, the chance of the memory card being corrupted and still passing the checksum error test are less than 60,000 to 1;



* The technical managers at Diebold Election Systems considered it a reasonable possibility that the second card was part of deliberate conspiracy to rig the election results. In her book Bev Harris explains the issue of whether the card was a chance fault or a deliberate example of tampering"



"A memory card is like floppy disk. If you have worked with computers for any length of time you will know that a disk can go bad. When it does, which of the following is most likely? In an Excel spreadsheet that you saved on a "bad disk," might it read a column of numbers correct the first time: "1005, 2109, 3000, 450..." but the second time, replace the numbers like this: "1005, 2109, -16022, 450..." Or is it more likely that the "bad disk" will...fail to read the file at all, crash your computer, give you an error message, or make weird humming and whirring noises." source: page 239, Chapter 11, "Black Box Voting in the 21st Century"



However officially, as we learned earlier, the explanation given publicly -- and accepted without demur by the media -- for the strange events in Volusia county is that there was simply a "faulty memory card". The "faulty memory card" explanation is also included in a CBS News Network investigation into the Election 2000 debacle. And it is here that we find a considerable amount of information about just how significant the Volusia County events were on election night. The first thing we learn from CBS's investigation into the events of election night is that according to the Voter News Service (VNS) exit polls for Florida Al Gore should have won comfortably.



7:00 PM: The vast majority of Florida polls close. CBS News decides not to project a winner in the Florida Presidential race at poll closing, even though the best estimate, based upon exit-poll interviews from the 45 survey precincts, shows Gore leading Bush by 6.6 points. The Decision Desk decides to wait for some actual votes from sample precincts to confirm the exit-poll results. 7:40 PM: The VNS computation shows a "call" status in the Florida Presidential race. This status means that statistically Gore is leading, but the Decision Team needs to check more data. Source



VNS eventually officially called the Florida race to Gore at 7.52pm, notwithstanding comments early in the vote count from George Bush that he was confident he would win both Florida and Pennsylvania (comments which were never fully explained). With the benefit of hindsight we think we now know that the VNS data was wrong. That is certainly what the CBS inquiry found. In the report attached below there is a range of explanations for this given [click here to view], none of them adequately explain the magnitude of the error however. Most of the news networks followed the VNS call giving Florida to Gore. And by 8.02pm all networks had announced Gore as the winner in Florida. And it wasn't till 9pm that some doubts about this call started to emerge. First up a significant error - attributed to a typing mistake - was found in the VNS data at 9.07pm. This led to closer examination of the rest of the data and the incoming returns. By around 10pm the Florida calls to Gore were all officially withdrawn. This is recorded in the CBS report as follows:



9:54 PM: The CBS News Decision Desk recommends that the call in Florida for Gore be withdrawn. CBS is in a local cutaway at 9:54 PM (the seven minutes at the end of the hour when local stations broadcast their own election results), and so CBS does not withdraw the call until 10:00 PM. 10:16 PM: VNS retracts its Florida call for Gore.



The CBS timeline then jumps forward four hours to 2am EST. By now an apparently substantial lead of 29,000 votes has opened up in favour of George Bush.



2:09 AM: VNS adds Volusia County's erroneous numbers to its tabulated vote. With 171 out of 172 precincts in the county reporting, Gore's vote drops by more than 10,000 while Bush's rises by almost the same amount. This 20,000-vote change in one county increases Bush's VNS statewide lead to more than 51,000 votes. - Source



What the news networks and the Al Gore camp do not realize at this point in the evening is that over 24,000 of votes that make up this significant lead are attributable to two Diebold Election Systems computer errors. First there are the 16,022 votes stolen from Gore in Volusia county by the "faulty memory card". Meanwhile over in Brevard County another error - also involving Global Elections System (the predecessor of Diebold) equipment is responsible for a further 4000 votes being lopped off the Gore total. And it is also worth noting that nobody knows whether the Brevard and Volusia county errors were the only ones in play at this time. These errors were both big ones. They were noticed and corrected on the night. How many smaller vote subtractions could have taken place on the night? Theoretically hundreds. As Dana Milbank's Washington Post report shows it was only because someone noticed the error in Volusia that it was corrected and remarkably the software itself contains no automatic system for rejecting negative vote totals being reported by precincts, events which by definition can only be nefarious and wrong. At 2am another VNS error came into play. VNS's estimates of the outstanding votes underestimated those that remained to be counted by half, around 180,000. The two errors combined led news executives at CBS to conclude that Bush's final winning margin in Florida would be around 30,000 votes. At this stage Bush had a lead of around 50,000 votes and late reporting precincts were expected to pare this back as many of them were in Democrat leaning counties. At 2.16am Fox and NBC called the race to Bush, unaware that the Volusia error had now been discovered. Over at Associated Press - the news service that Network News controllers do not read - the margin to Bush had by now fallen to 30,000 after correcting the Volusia error. At 2.17am and 2.20am the remaining two major networks CBS and ABC called the race to Bush. Their decision continued to be bolstered by the VNS data stream - which even at 2.47am - was still recording a margin to Bush of close to 50,000 votes. Remarkably it was not till 2.51am that VNS fixed the Volusia error in its data. Meanwhile with all the networks showing the race for the White House won by Bush, the pressure is mounting on Gore to concede. In the book, "Too Close to Call" by journalist Jeffrey Toobin, the author gives a behind-the-scenes account of how Gore reacted when the television networks concluded that Bush had taken Florida. "Al Gore happened to be in the staff room on the seventh floor when the votes spiked up in Bush's favor. Dressed casually, the vice president was watching television while lying on the floor, with his chin propped up in his hands. As a result of the Volusia votes, Fox News called Florida-and the presidency-for Bush at 2:16 a.m. CBS and NBC followed suit a minute later and ABC came in at 2:20 a.m.," Toobin wrote in his book.



"Following the news reports, Gore was silent and absorbed the news. A moment later he told members of his campaign that he was ready to concede the election to Bush, which he did several minutes later over the telephone. "Unwilling to take the television networks reports at face value, one of Gore's campaign staffers did a little investigating and discovered that the networks erred in stating that 50,000 votes from Volusia county were cast for Bush. Turns out that Gore was ahead by 13,000 votes in Volusia and trailing Bush by 6,000 votes overall. Something was wrong in Volusia it would be revealed later. One of Gore's campaign advisers then checked Florida's law on recounts. The nearly dead heat between Bush and Gore in Florida and the fact that Gore was ahead in Volusia County meant a mandatory recount. It was time to rescind Gore's concession to Bush and scrutinize the ballots. Gore was traveling in a motorcade en route to deliver a concession speech to his supporters. His staff stopped him. At this point, the margin between Bush and Gore was down to 2,000 votes. A recount was all but certain."



Gore called Bush and Gore's staff surrounded the vice president to listen in on what would become a historic conversation at 2:30 a.m. "Circumstances have changed dramatically since I first called you," Gore said to Bush, Toobin wrote. "The state of Florida is too close to call." "Are you saying what I think you're saying?" Bush asked according to Toobin. "Let me make sure that I understand. You're calling back to retract that concession?" Gore sensed an annoyance in Bush's tone and shot back "you don't have to be snippy about it." Toobin says Bush then told Gore that his "little brother", Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, had assured him that he won the state of Florida and for that matter the presidency of the United States. "Let me explain something," Toobin quoted Gore as saying in his response to Bush. "Your little brother is not the ultimate authority on this." "You do what you have to do," Bush said and hung up the phone on Gore. When Gore turned around to face his staff they exploded in cheers. It is not till 3.10am that the CBS news controllers notice the huge difference between their numbers and those of AP which by now show the margin to Bush at under 10,000. We also know, thanks to the CBS inquiry report, that by around 3.40am the Gore camp had decided not to concede. Gore Campaign Chairman William Daley rang CBS News President Andrew Heyward in the control room and asked him whether CBS would be reversing its call soon. CBS's Andrew Heyward waited another 15-20 minutes after the phone call before ordering CBS to officially withdraw the call to Bush. And by 4.05am all the other networks had also withdrawn the call. By 4.10am the reported Bush lead in the race had dropped to 1800 votes, and thereabouts it remained until the first recount - albeit the Florida Secretary of State's office website reported the race to Gore on the day after the vote. And it is there that the narrative in this tale ends and the analysis starts. In its internal conclusions about these events the CBS inquiry team found the two Diebold County level errors, Volusia and Brevard, were conclusive in their networks decision to call the race to Bush.



"The mistakes, both of which originated with the counties, were critical, since there were only about 3 percent of the state's precincts outstanding at this time. They incorrectly increased Bush's lead in the tabulated vote from about 27,000 to more than 51,000. Had it not been for these errors, the CBS News call for Bush at 2:17:52 AM would not have been made." - source



You do not get much clearer than that. The record already shows that events of election night 2000 turned on the errors in the Volusia and Brevard vote counts. Both of which occurred on Global Election Systems (now Diebold) equipment. Of course we now know Al Gore did not concede. But had he done so would that have altered what followed? Would there have been the hanging-chad phenomena, the lawsuits over recounts and the recriminations? Most of what is contained in the preceding analysis is well trodden territory. Everybody knows that the TV networks screwed up big time on election night, and the issue of bias at those networks has also been well traversed. What has not been discussed, or even conceived of till now, is that the events that occurred between around midnight and 4am might have been the result not of mistakes but of organised voting fraud. Yet that is precisely what Talbot Iredale and Ken Clark's memos confirm is a distinct possibility, in fact, reading between the lines they suggest it is the most likely possibility. Consider this: How plausible is it that an error such as this - of such magnitude, with no apparent physical explanation, and in one of the few counties still receiving incoming results that late in the night - was really the simple result of a "faulty memory card"? We also now know, again thanks to the work of Black Box Voting investigators like Washington State's Bev Harris and California's Jim March, that the Diebold vote tallying programme used in several Florida counties, GEMS, is easily hackable, both by outsiders and by insiders.



[See... Bev Harris's "Inside A U.S. Election Vote Counting Program" for details and Jim March's "DIEBOLD'S VOTE-TALLY SOFTWARE- Security Review Instructions" for a kit to demonstrate the hack on your own computer.]



We do not know what would have happened had a full state-wide recount been undertaken as the efforts to have one were blocked in the courts. Would they have discovered other counties where unusual events like those discovered in Brevard and Volusia counties? Is it possible that the original VNS exit polling data was closer to being correct? Is it possible that less egregious vote stealing took place in counties all over Florida? Add into the mix the blatant roll scrubbing in Florida discovered by Greg Palast and exposed in his best-selling book The Best Democracy Money Can Buy and you have a recipe of reasons to reopen a full scale inquiries into the Florida debacle. And perhaps more importantly. With paper-less touchscreen voting systems in place in many Florida counties come November 2004, should such events occur again, there will be no record with which to conduct a recount. And the other big mystery of course is this. If someone did try to rig the election returns in Florida in 2000, who was it?



Alastair Thompson is an award winning New Zealand investigative journalist and the Co-Editor of Scoop.co.nz, where this article first appeared. This report draws heavily from the work of Bev Harris in her new book Black Box Voting: Ballot Tampering in the 21st Century. California based investigative reporter Jason Leopold also contributed to this report. For more information on Black Box Voting, see http://www.blackboxvoting.com/ and it's activist arm http://www.blackboxvoting.org/



* For more background and live news links on this subject see also Scoop's Special Feature, ?A Very American Coup?
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Vote Fraud in Tennessee: Worse than Florida?

By Catherine Danielson, AlterNet
When either former-Governor McWherter or Gore Jr. argue in favor of "Alternet's" contentions regarding voter corruption in Tennessee, come talk to me.
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
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0
Originally posted by: burnedout
Vote Fraud in Tennessee: Worse than Florida?

By Catherine Danielson, AlterNet
When either former-Governor McWherter or Gore Jr. argue in favor of "Alternet's" contentions regarding voter corruption in Tennessee, come talk to me.

So the official lie about JFK is true because the family of JFK was too affraid of the consequences if they accused LBJ and the CIA of being criminals.
Gore did not dare accusing the Bush family and their CIA friends of organized fraud; he was too affraid of the consequences. The elite did not want this to go too far. Same in 1966. A successful coup is always accepted by all the members of the elite, immediately of after a little time, even when they are on the losing side, because their worst fear is a popular revolution if the people fully realize what happened. The elitists prefer to settle matters among themselves, and agree to keep the people in their spectator state. They do not want to endanger their existence as an elite.
You may go back to sleep, naive boy.
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
0
0
Originally posted by: alchemize
23 Days! The End is Nigh!!

You act like a fool instead of discussing articles from the press.
How fragile you must be, little boy.
When articles are too scary for you, you just laugh, refusing to discuss their contents; you disconnect your left brain, like a couch potatoe.
Which words from Cheney did make you laugh?
Why does it make you laugh that the biggest newspaper from one of the closest allies of Bush published an article about a nuclear bomb seriously searched in NY?
All these articles come from serious newspapers.
But you laugh as if they had been written by a clown, as if you were still a child and could laugh at everything.
Some powerful people gained a lot from 9-11.
The same people would manage to gain a lot from a new 9-11.
Maybe you want to believe that in your country powerful people are very human, care more about the people than about themselves, that cannot do any harm, that they are pure. How cute!
How many millions of innocent people did the powerful people in the USA get killed in Vietnam, Korea, Indonesia,...?
The US powers that be are pure and innocent. Sure enough!
Not even compared to Hitler!
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw

So the official lie about JFK is true because the family of JFK was too affraid of the consequences if they accused LBJ and the CIA of being criminals.
Provide proof of the so-called "Johnson conspiracy". There is none. Former president Ford, a Warren Commission member, AND former president Carter both dismiss the Johnson conspiracy. And please, no more Alternet, Rense, or <insert website of dubious nature here>.

Gore did not dare accusing the Bush family and their CIA friends of organized fraud; he was too affraid of the consequences.
So you are trying to tell us that the SITTING VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES was afraid of the CIA? hahaha hahaha hahahaha. My god man! WTF have you been smoking?
 

Nietzscheusw

Senior member
Dec 28, 2003
308
0
0
There is this recent documentary about LBJ from french TV channel 4 (Canal +):
ed2k://|file|Lundi_investigation_assassinat_jf_kennedy_canal+_xvid.avi|565544960|08D745D21798760001ACFA855B56F4D5|/
This channel is the french equivalent of HBO.
The author of the documentary is a journalist who spent the last years in Texas and got testimonies from some guys not afraid to die anymore.
It is in french.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw
There is this recent documentary about LBJ from french TV channel 4 (Canal +):
ed2k://|file|Lundi_investigation_assassinat_jf_kennedy_canal+_xvid.avi|This channel is the french equivalent of HBO.
The author of the documentary is a journalist who spent the last years in Texas and got testimonies from some guys not afraid to die anymore.
It is in french.
The documentary recently broadcast by the History Channel here in the USA was of much better quality and slightly more convincing. And it is nevertheless flawed.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: Nietzscheusw
Originally posted by: alchemize
23 Days! The End is Nigh!!

You act like a fool instead of discussing articles from the press.
How fragile you must be, little boy.
When articles are too scary for you, you just laugh, refusing to discuss their contents; you disconnect your left brain, like a couch potatoe.
Which words from Cheney did make you laugh?
Why does it make you laugh that the biggest newspaper from one of the closest allies of Bush published an article about a nuclear bomb seriously searched in NY?
All these articles come from serious newspapers.
But you laugh as if they had been written by a clown, as if you were still a child and could laugh at everything.
Some powerful people gained a lot from 9-11.
The same people would manage to gain a lot from a new 9-11.
Maybe you want to believe that in your country powerful people are very human, care more about the people than about themselves, that cannot do any harm, that they are pure. How cute!
How many millions of innocent people did the powerful people in the USA get killed in Vietnam, Korea, Indonesia,...?
The US powers that be are pure and innocent. Sure enough!
Not even compared to Hitler!

Getting nervous, aren't you. Well, within 23 days one of us is going to be proved a dumb-ass. Or are you ready to rescind your prediction?
 
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