Bush lifts all steel tariffs

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DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: miguel
The problem I see is that there are people in this forum that think that no matter what Bush does, he's a liar and a fool. Do you not see that? I for one, do like how Bush is doing, but I am not a sheep or an apologist. If someone would make a clear-cut argument for how Bush is doing badly, I listen. If someone proves that he (Bush) is a liar, I would listen. But it sickens me to read day in and day out, sniping attacks on his intelligence and integrity without proof or reasonable arguments. I mean, my god, the guy had a drinking problem and overcame it and became president. Yet, it's just another wound people stick things in. Give me a good argument as to how the guy is a useless drunk and I'll listen. But alas, no argument without name-calling and fallacious logic has been put forth.
You have it backwards. Some people think he's a liar and a fool to begin with. His actions and behavior spring from there.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
It was a no win situation but the bright note should be highlighted and that is the fact that for 20 months the tariffs existed. It had some impact on the US steel industry. 20 months is better then none but not quite the 36 months orignally planned.
Dude, that's like pointing at the eye of a hurricane and saying, "the weather is nice here."

The Associated Press reports that the administration initially imposed the tariffs in hopes of winning votes in key steel states such as Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ohio.
But it faced a barrage of complaints from steel-consuming industries, according to the AP, who claimed the higher prices they had to pay were costing more jobs at U.S. steel companies than were being saved.


A political decision from the beginning . . . has now been corrected b/c it was BAD policy. Here's what the future portends for our Bush-whacked@ nation:

1) Administration reverses the new source review ruling: GOP exclaims, "the most sweeping environmental protection since the Clean Air Act."
2) Administration reverses EPA ruling on mine tailings: GOP exclaims, "most sweeping environmental protection since the Clean Water Act."
3) Bush actually endorses full funding for Leave No Child Left Behind: GOP exclaims, "most sweeping educational reform/increase in funding since Head Start."
4) Bush announces plan to protect ANWAR, CA coast, and Eastern seaboard from oil/gas exploration: GOP exclaims, "greatest conservation President since Teddy R."
5) Bush announces repeal of most recent Farm Bill: GOP exclaims, "the end of big government subsidies."
6) Bush vetoes Medicare reform/drug benefit: GOP exclaims, "the end of big government."
7) Bush advocates the repeal of the Patriot Act: GOP exclaims, "greatest defender of civil liberties since Lincoln . . . oops nevermind."


 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
621
0
0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
You have it backwards. Some people think he's a liar and a fool to begin with. His actions and behavior spring from there.
Thank you for supporting my argument.

 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,475
0
0
Yeah, these dastardly Japanese and European steel manufacturers. They obviously use prison labor to make steel.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
You have it backwards. Some people think he's a liar and a fool to begin with. His actions and behavior spring from there.
Thank you for supporting my argument.
Mmmm hmmm. No problem. ;)
 

ManSnake

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2000
4,749
1
0
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: Shelly21
Originally posted by: miguel
I guess if Bush didn't pull the tariffs, he'd be criticized for being too strong-armed and unilateral and not playing nice. Now that he did the opposite, he gets criticized for pandering for votes.

Your credibility meters are stuck on zero.
Give me a break, so for you, if he didn't pull the tariffs, you'd prise him for fulfilling his election promise, and not fold under international pressue. And if he pull it, you'd prise him for saving more jobs.

What's wrong with pandering for votes anyway? It's almost election time.
I neither praised nor criticized him. I was only pointing out that regardless of what he did, some people criticize him, which is kinda stupid if you ask me.
No one asked you!
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
98
91
Europe did a great job threatening tariffs for goods imported from politically charged areas, including oranges from Jebs state. :D
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
I didn't think there was much left of a U.S. Steel Industry. Alabama's plants all closed up as well as Tennessee and the giant plants in Pennyslyvania.

Why doesn't the Industry just close down altogether? Isn't that what the AT Experts want and think should happen anyway?
 

rjain

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,475
0
0
Um, Dave. We're not in the business of telling anyone what jobs they can or cannot do. Please don't project your desire to do that onto us. Those who can keep doing the job profitably in a free and open market (especially because doing otherwise would hurt our own, more profitable, industries) should be free to do so. I think the reason for the tarriffs would be so that we could subsidize the re-opening of some of those closed plants with significantly higher costs to American consumers for goods that contain steel.

Edit: Actually, I think it was a good thing that the industrials were harmed by this legislation. They're growing really fast and if they grew any faster, there would be quite a bit more hiring, which would have caused Greenspan to raise his rates and would have created much more competition for stocks (and I don't own any industrials, so I don't care if they go up :p). Yeah, selfish reasoning, but it works for me. ;)
 

Cougar

Golden Member
Feb 26, 2000
1,761
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I didn't think there was much left of a U.S. Steel Industry. Alabama's plants all closed up as well as Tennessee and the giant plants in Pennyslyvania.

Why doesn't the Industry just close down altogether? Isn't that what the AT Experts want and think should happen anyway?

If they closed down then where else could somone go to work at 10, work for 30mins, take lunch, work for an hour, take a nap and then go home? ;) :p
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I didn't think there was much left of a U.S. Steel Industry. Alabama's plants all closed up as well as Tennessee and the giant plants in Pennyslyvania.

Why doesn't the Industry just close down altogether? Isn't that what the AT Experts want and think should happen anyway?
report on US steel production


The U.S. steel industry, with about 170,000 employees in 1990, turned out a similar amount of steel to that in the 1970's with more than one-half of a million, but it is the replacement of the obsolescent processes and installations that accounted for a large part of the reduction of personnel.

linkage
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,651
98
91
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I didn't think there was much left of a U.S. Steel Industry. Alabama's plants all closed up as well as Tennessee and the giant plants in Pennyslyvania. Why doesn't the Industry just close down altogether? Isn't that what the AT Experts want and think should happen anyway?
Its a two way street - if you can't compete, is it better to cheat?
 

Mrburns2007

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2001
2,595
0
0
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It was a no win situation but the bright note should be highlighted and that is the fact that for 20 months the tariffs existed. It had some impact on the US steel industry. 20 months is better then none but not quite the 36 months orignally planned.
Dude, that's like pointing at the eye of a hurricane and saying, "the weather is nice here."

The Associated Press reports that the administration initially imposed the tariffs in hopes of winning votes in key steel states such as Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ohio.
But it faced a barrage of complaints from steel-consuming industries, according to the AP, who claimed the higher prices they had to pay were costing more jobs at U.S. steel companies than were being saved.


A political decision from the beginning . . . has now been corrected b/c it was BAD policy. Here's what the future portends for our Bush-whacked@ nation:

1) Administration reverses the new source review ruling: GOP exclaims, "the most sweeping environmental protection since the Clean Air Act."
2) Administration reverses EPA ruling on mine tailings: GOP exclaims, "most sweeping environmental protection since the Clean Water Act."
3) Bush actually endorses full funding for Leave No Child Left Behind: GOP exclaims, "most sweeping educational reform/increase in funding since Head Start."
4) Bush announces plan to protect ANWAR, CA coast, and Eastern seaboard from oil/gas exploration: GOP exclaims, "greatest conservation President since Teddy R."
5) Bush announces repeal of most recent Farm Bill: GOP exclaims, "the end of big government subsidies."
6) Bush vetoes Medicare reform/drug benefit: GOP exclaims, "the end of big government."
7) Bush advocates the repeal of the Patriot Act: GOP exclaims, "greatest defender of civil liberties since Lincoln . . . oops nevermind."
It did give the US steel industry a breather from super cheap foreign steel which was being dumped on the US market. Also it should be noted that the millitary doesn't want US steel to be completely wiped out cause it's also a National Security issue just like oil. They don't want ships and tanks to be built with all foreign steel.

 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Bush lifts all steel tariffs
Good. Imposing them in the first place was an incredibly dumb move on his part, and even though lifting them was the right thing to do, he doesn't deserve any credit for finally doing so 20 months late - he's just fixing what he broke.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,216
126
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It was a no win situation but the bright note should be highlighted and that is the fact that for 20 months the tariffs existed. It had some impact on the US steel industry. 20 months is better then none but not quite the 36 months orignally planned.
Dude, that's like pointing at the eye of a hurricane and saying, "the weather is nice here."

The Associated Press reports that the administration initially imposed the tariffs in hopes of winning votes in key steel states such as Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ohio.
But it faced a barrage of complaints from steel-consuming industries, according to the AP, who claimed the higher prices they had to pay were costing more jobs at U.S. steel companies than were being saved.


A political decision from the beginning . . . has now been corrected b/c it was BAD policy. Here's what the future portends for our Bush-whacked@ nation:

1) Administration reverses the new source review ruling: GOP exclaims, "the most sweeping environmental protection since the Clean Air Act."
2) Administration reverses EPA ruling on mine tailings: GOP exclaims, "most sweeping environmental protection since the Clean Water Act."
3) Bush actually endorses full funding for Leave No Child Left Behind: GOP exclaims, "most sweeping educational reform/increase in funding since Head Start."
4) Bush announces plan to protect ANWAR, CA coast, and Eastern seaboard from oil/gas exploration: GOP exclaims, "greatest conservation President since Teddy R."
5) Bush announces repeal of most recent Farm Bill: GOP exclaims, "the end of big government subsidies."
6) Bush vetoes Medicare reform/drug benefit: GOP exclaims, "the end of big government."
7) Bush advocates the repeal of the Patriot Act: GOP exclaims, "greatest defender of civil liberties since Lincoln . . . oops nevermind."
It did give the US steel industry a breather from super cheap foreign steel which was being dumped on the US market. Also it should be noted that the millitary doesn't want US steel to be completely wiped out cause it's also a National Security issue just like oil. They don't want ships and tanks to be built with all foreign steel.

And that is exactly how I predicted Bush would spin this. These tariffs hurt more than they helped. Certainly, steel benefited, but this was more than offset by losses to other segments of the economy (which is being curiously ignored by many Bush supporters). If Bush wanted to help out the steel industry, he should have kept back some of those tax refunds and given breaks to the steel industry for very specific improvements in their production methods and facilities, NOT to give CEO's a bigger bonus. This was solely a ploy to get votes, and now he was scared off by the EU. It is as if he stepped in crap and now is telling us about the benefits to the fertilizer his publicity got for that smooth move.
 

Mrburns2007

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2001
2,595
0
0
Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
It was a no win situation but the bright note should be highlighted and that is the fact that for 20 months the tariffs existed. It had some impact on the US steel industry. 20 months is better then none but not quite the 36 months orignally planned.
Dude, that's like pointing at the eye of a hurricane and saying, "the weather is nice here."

The Associated Press reports that the administration initially imposed the tariffs in hopes of winning votes in key steel states such as Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Ohio.
But it faced a barrage of complaints from steel-consuming industries, according to the AP, who claimed the higher prices they had to pay were costing more jobs at U.S. steel companies than were being saved.


A political decision from the beginning . . . has now been corrected b/c it was BAD policy. Here's what the future portends for our Bush-whacked@ nation:

1) Administration reverses the new source review ruling: GOP exclaims, "the most sweeping environmental protection since the Clean Air Act."
2) Administration reverses EPA ruling on mine tailings: GOP exclaims, "most sweeping environmental protection since the Clean Water Act."
3) Bush actually endorses full funding for Leave No Child Left Behind: GOP exclaims, "most sweeping educational reform/increase in funding since Head Start."
4) Bush announces plan to protect ANWAR, CA coast, and Eastern seaboard from oil/gas exploration: GOP exclaims, "greatest conservation President since Teddy R."
5) Bush announces repeal of most recent Farm Bill: GOP exclaims, "the end of big government subsidies."
6) Bush vetoes Medicare reform/drug benefit: GOP exclaims, "the end of big government."
7) Bush advocates the repeal of the Patriot Act: GOP exclaims, "greatest defender of civil liberties since Lincoln . . . oops nevermind."
It did give the US steel industry a breather from super cheap foreign steel which was being dumped on the US market. Also it should be noted that the millitary doesn't want US steel to be completely wiped out cause it's also a National Security issue just like oil. They don't want ships and tanks to be built with all foreign steel.

And that is exactly how I predicted Bush would spin this. These tariffs hurt more than they helped. Certainly, steel benefited, but this was more than offset by losses to other segments of the economy (which is being curiously ignored by many Bush supporters). If Bush wanted to help out the steel industry, he should have kept back some of those tax refunds and given breaks to the steel industry for very specific improvements in their production methods and facilities, NOT to give CEO's a bigger bonus. This was solely a ploy to get votes, and now he was scared off by the EU. It is as if he stepped in crap and now is telling us about the benefits to the fertilizer his publicity got for that smooth move.
1. American companys can buy American steel cheaper right now then Europeans can buy European steel.

2. There are trade deficits with both Europe and Japan but neither seems interested in discussing that.

3. Foreign countries shouldn't be allowed to dump steel onto our markets if they aren't allowing us the same access to theirs.

4. The real problem is to much steel production and not enough consumers on the global market.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
0
It did give the US steel industry a breather from super cheap foreign steel which was being dumped on the US market.
The primary problems with the US steel industry were caused by the US steel industry. What they really need is a breather from poor leadership. The consolidation everyone talks about is a euphemism for M&A . . . or big fish gobble the little fish . . . it would have happened with or without tariffs. Of course, steel fabricators took it on the chin. Consumers of steel and consumers in general were essentially TAXED billions of dollars to support this flawed protectionist policy.

Also it should be noted that the millitary doesn't want US steel to be completely wiped out cause it's also a National Security issue just like oil.
Well it's too damn late to be talking about oil dependency. If the military is worried about oil dependency maybe they should encourage all Americans to buy hybrids . . . better yet hybrid diesels. It's a shame we have to buy FOREIGN vehicles to reduce our dependency on foreign oil.

They don't want ships and tanks to be built with all foreign steel.
That's b/c they don't pay the damn bills. The incest between the military and industrial complex soaked this country during the 50s, 80s, and just like a case of the herpes . . . it's coming back again . . . with a vengeance.
 

Mrburns2007

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2001
2,595
0
0
The primary problems with the US steel industry were caused by the US steel industry. What they really need is a breather from poor leadership. The consolidation everyone talks about is a euphemism for M&A . . . or big fish gobble the little fish . . . it would have happened with or without tariffs. Of course, steel fabricators took it on the chin. Consumers of steel and consumers in general were essentially TAXED billions of dollars to support this flawed protectionist policy.
So basically we should just allow foreign countries to dump super cheap steel into the US and destroy the US steel industry completely. I'm not sure that is really a great idea. China can probably produce steel cheaper then the US ( labor cost ) and will eventually control the market.

 

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