Thankfully the Homegrown Terrorist and Violent Radicalization Act did not pass, or anything similar yet. It's basically a "thought crime" bill. Imagine if your political ideas were considered extreme or a "force" as it is worded and undefined in that proposed bill. And imagine that you are considered a threat because of your ideas. Would you support torturing Americans because their political or social ideas were outside the very narrow spectrum of accepted (indoctrinated) public opinion?
Thankfully the Homegrown Terrorist and Violent Radicalization Act did not pass, or anything similar yet. It's basically a "thought crime" bill. Imagine if your political ideas were considered extreme or a "force" as it is worded and undefined in that proposed bill. And imagine that you are considered a threat because of your ideas. Would you support torturing Americans because their political or social ideas were outside the very narrow spectrum of accepted (indoctrinated) public opinion?
Your statement is not much of a response, but I'll answer you.
My thoughts regarding 9/11 have been expressed to some who have lost loved ones in 9/11. I did not know anyone who died directly, but my mom and brother did. They agree that stripping civil liberties is a bad thing, as is torture. If you can think about things logically or calmly without resorting to name calling or tired rhetoric, you can have an intelligent discussion about anything.
You never answered my question.
I understand that those with 1 brain cell are a bit reading challenged. It sounds like you include yourself in that group. I won't argue with you about that.
You should also check your sarcasm meter. It's about as failed as your soon to be ex-Traitor In Chief.
A bunch of ass kissing Bushwhacko sycophants like you. If you have a problem with it, it's your problem.
I will support torture of anyone if it can bring about a better future of America. I will take a safe America any days over a free but unsafe America.
Nude human pyramid with dog barking - not torture
Sleep depravation - light torture with useful qualities
Waterboarding - Begins to cross the line
Want real torture? Look it up. You would be begging for waterboarding after a night in a Jordanian intelligence building.
Sleep depravation - light torture with useful qualities
Waterboarding - Begins to cross the line
Want real torture? Look it up. You would be begging for waterboarding after a night in a Jordanian intelligence building.
There isn't the slightest doubt in my mind that America would be much better off in the future if asshole, imbeciles, like you were tortured and killed, but fortunately for you, real, great Americans like me won't allow that to happen. A country that allows ignorant fools like you to determine what is best for the future would insure, for sure, it had a terrible one. It's sad but true that what makes America great is exactly what you would destroy in trying to make it great. Such is the way of assholes.
Only a piece of human shit would do any of the above to another human being. You think like a piece of human shit.
The first one is just plain humiliation, it does nothing to gain useful information. It's pure, base revenge.
The second is an accepted interrogation technique and AFAIK, not defined as torture.
The third is accepted as being torture.
Other countries immorality should not justify our country's (albeit lesser) immorality. The US has almost always taken the high road in these sorts of situations. As far as I know, we didn't torture Soviet spies, we didn't torture Nazi war criminals. Even in Vietnam, torture was not sanctioned from the top-down. Sure, some troops on the ground may have been guilty of torturing Vietcong/South Vietnamese, but it was never an order from the Pentagon or DoD as it was during Bush's administration. That is what makes this behavior particularly appalling.
Too bad I can't live in your world where there are flowers and rainbows and unicorns on every street corner. Everyone sits around outside their VW van with an acoustic and sings around the fire.
I draw my line at waterboarding, with it being illegal. Anything else is just an interrogation technique.
Even that stuff they may have that's just as bad, but you don't know about? :shocked:
Do your homework. Google for "war crimes" and torture. Waterboarding doesn't begin to scratch the surface of man's inhumanity to man. You'll find other "techniques" that are considered as bad and will should your stomach just as much.
XMan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 12,513
- 50
- 91
Torture?
Yes we can!
However, Obama's changes may not be absolute. His advisers are considering adding a classified loophole to the rules that could allow the CIA to use some interrogation methods not specifically authorized by the Pentagon, the officials said. ...
For Obama, who repeatedly insisted during the 2008 presidential campaign and the transition period that "America doesn't torture," a classified loophole would allow him to follow through on his promise to end harsh interrogations while retaining a full range of presidential options in conducting the war against terrorism.
The proposed loophole, which could come in the form of a classified annex to the manual, is designed to satisfy intelligence experts who fear that an outright ban of so-called enhanced interrogation techniques would limit the government in obtaining threat information that could save American lives. It would also preserve Obama's flexibility to authorize any interrogation tactics he might deem necessary for national security.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...h/obama_interrogations
Yes we can!
However, Obama's changes may not be absolute. His advisers are considering adding a classified loophole to the rules that could allow the CIA to use some interrogation methods not specifically authorized by the Pentagon, the officials said. ...
For Obama, who repeatedly insisted during the 2008 presidential campaign and the transition period that "America doesn't torture," a classified loophole would allow him to follow through on his promise to end harsh interrogations while retaining a full range of presidential options in conducting the war against terrorism.
The proposed loophole, which could come in the form of a classified annex to the manual, is designed to satisfy intelligence experts who fear that an outright ban of so-called enhanced interrogation techniques would limit the government in obtaining threat information that could save American lives. It would also preserve Obama's flexibility to authorize any interrogation tactics he might deem necessary for national security.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...h/obama_interrogations
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
Torture is one of those things none w/ heart wants to be confronted with hence the auto dismissal of it by many. Similar to if you had chance to go back and to Hitlers WW1 days would you have shot him in trenches. sometimes we skirt from the better angles of our nature - that does not make someone a human piece of shit.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
Water boarded ain't shit. try cutting off fingers and toes one by one and cauterization so they don't bleed to death. Electric testicle shock w/ 400,000V almost stopping heart each time. Or power drills threw knees and elbows..all methods of Iraqi police and Egypt security services.
Ozoned
Diamond Member
- Mar 22, 2004
- 5,578
- 0
- 0
I think the key thing to remember is that nothing in policy has really changed in the last 8 years, nor will anything really change in policy, the next 8 years. The management of policy will be different, with disipcle after disciple willing to take the bullet for Obama. You don't let the cat out of the bag, you can't prove it was ever in there.
Yeah guys, because other people do worse things to their prisoners, it's ok for us to torture ours.
Oh, and contrary to your belief... from the many many testimonials from people who have been waterboarded (and it's long and varied history stemming from the oh-so-nice Spanish Inquisition), waterboarding is one of the most psychologically damaging forms of torture that can be employed. Sure a drill might break your kneecap, but waterboarding breaks your brain.
Of course the relativism is all meaningless anyway. Torture is torture. Right now we are a country that tortures people. It's too late to erase the shame from that, but we can at least start on the path to fixing the problem.
In fact it does. You note, you used that 'if' too. You cannot go back in time. Your point has no real meaning. There will never exist a single case where you can use facts from the future to justify torturing somebody today. The moment you accept torture you become the very evil you seek to save us from. You become a piece of human shit.
Look what you do. You imply I live in Lala land not recognizing that by doing so you show us it is you who are manufacturing a dream. There is only this one world and we both live in it. There are some flowers, a few rainbows here and there, and no unicorns except in stories and nary a fire to sing around. The me you create is your dream, just as you dream your justifications. Interrogation techniques are just interrogation techniques until they happen to you. You are the fool who fancies himself safe from the very evil you create.
Fine, let him go. There is nothing that states we have to fly him over to his country. Drop him in the Atlantic and tell him to swim back home.
A lot of people's opinions would change if they or their loved ones were in a situation where they would die and the only way to save them was to torture some terrorist to get that information out.
Ah yes, another, if this were known to be true before it was known to be true scenario.
And if the person you tortured to death that you knew, knew, turns out to have known nothing?
A lot of people's opinions would change if they or their loved ones were in a situation where they were tortured.
See how easy that is?
Fixed......now what is your opinion?
When you allows torture, you *will* torture some innocent people, that were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
You OK with a family member grabbed off the street, and kept away from you for 4-5 years, and maybe returned after being tortured for that time?
If you cant' answer yes to the above question, you can't support torture.
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