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Burning the Bridge that "Golden Gates" Built - What more does Linux Need?

T

thornnspear

Junior Member
What more does linux need for one to forever be able to avoid Windows on a personal computing level?

I know for myself I will need windows at home for VB programming, and for the few programs my wife and kids need that are not in linux (ie Quilting programs, some kids educational programs)

But other than that, what hardware integration or software ports are we still waiting for?
 


<< User Friendliness for many people. >>



UNIX is user friendly, its just picky about its friends.

I think it would be fine as a desktop. I know I dont need anything more (out of OpenBSD). But I dont do any office type of things. So OpenOffice being better (dont know how good it is, but it could always be better) might help.
 


<< What more does linux need for one to forever be able to avoid Windows on a personal computing level?

I know for myself I will need windows at home for VB programming, and for the few programs my wife and kids need that are not in linux (ie Quilting programs, some kids educational programs)

But other than that, what hardware integration or software ports are we still waiting for? >>



Companies need to stop being so MS-centric develop with Linux in mind. Other then that I really don't care about Linux ever replacing Windows as much as some poeple do now that I have found my Linux-groove. 😀
 
The big thing that I think Linux needs is an easy way to install drivers. Plug in a card, turn on your system, window pops up asking for the driver. You point the system to the driver and it pops up a window with a few simple configuration options. Then the card just works. The way it is now, it is very powerful, but also very complex. I know many people (myself included) who are intimidated by how difficult it is to configure.
 


<< The big thing that I think Linux needs is an easy way to install drivers. Plug in a card, turn on your system, window pops up asking for the driver. You point the system to the driver and it pops up a window with a few simple configuration options. Then the card just works. The way it is now, it is very powerful, but also very complex. I know many people (myself included) who are intimidated by how difficult it is to configure. >>


Yea, a new driver installation method is needed. Now I can upgrade and compile my kernel, but when I first started out I remember how scary it was to be doing that for the very first time. And, considering how so many people seem to despise reading the FAQs, it's unlikely that they'd go check out the Kernel-HOWTO or something.
 
It needs the full software library Windows users enjoy, user hand-holding and utterly robust hardware support. The usual.
 
I agree on the unified driver install thingy.

I've been using Linux for quite some time, and rarely run into problems I can't solve by reading a manpage or HOWTO, but it really gets annoying when it comes to installing drivers.

Some are in RPM packages, some in kernel patches, some as precompiled modules, that sucks bigtime.
 
It's kinda sad to say this... but there is only one MAIN reason why I have a 2k box... Half-Life (CS and TFC). Everything else I do, is either designed for linux, or something I can do with linux...
 
I have three problems with Linux for the "average" (<-- a step above me!!) desktop user:

1. In the year that i have been "attempting" to make use of Linux the install has become much easier... but i still manage to run into way to many problems such as being unable to install with a usb keyboard or mouse!! Ease of install is huge because Dell, Gateway etc... are not going to begin offering it pre-installed anytime soon so the avg joe has to be able to do it without pulling out all his/her hair.

2. All distros need to conform to the Linux Standards Base!! All you experts have no problems compiling and installing these programs manually but the avg joe will go crazy. If software companies could compile the program one time and have it work for all distros i think the number of companies writing for Linux would be greater. Same thing for customer support, how can any company possibly support thier product on so many distros?

3. Should be 2a! If all the distros would conform to the LSB would it not be easier for hardware manufacturers to write drivers for Linux?

As individual distros none have the penetration into the desktop market to attract hardware/software companies to write for them. With LSB they would form a much larger and more inticing business oportunity to offer.

As for the desktop itself, i use KDE 2.2.2 (at least until i crash the damn thing again!) and find it as easy to use as windows for everyday tasks.

One final thought (ouch, that hurt!!), as far as the desktops and office suites have come it would be unbelievable to see the progress that could have been made without so many different projects doing the same work. It looks to me as though KDE and Gnome are trying to accomplish the same goals with thier desktops and office suites, to bad they don't pool thier ideas and effort to create one great product rather than two very good ones.

But then what the h*ll do i know? (Don't answer that)

Doh!!
 
I have to admit, with great pain and humiliation, that my main home system has been booted to Win2K for about the past 2 months because Linux doesn't have a decent 3D CAD program that I am aware of. I'm designing an addition for our house, hopefully the drawings will be done soon so I can revert to the one true path 😀
 
The big thing that I think Linux needs is an easy way to install drivers. Plug in a card, turn on your system, window pops up asking for the driver. You point the system to the driver and it pops up a window with a few simple configuration options. Then the card just works. The way it is now, it is very powerful, but also very complex. I know many people (myself included) who are intimidated by how difficult it is to configure.

The problem is since Linux is very source code oriented, pre-built drivers don't work everywhere for everyone. Some companies distribute precompiled drivers, but they only work if you run the distro that company does and have the (nearly) exact same configuration.

The easiest way to get around that is for the company to make their drivers Open Source and get them in the main kernel, but not all of them will go for that.

It looks to me as though KDE and Gnome are trying to accomplish the same goals with thier desktops and office suites, to bad they don't pool thier ideas and effort to create one great product rather than two very good ones.

The other side of that is that if one of them didn't exist, the other wouldn't have made the progress it has because of lack of competition. Each one trying to one up the other makes them develop better software faster.
 


<< I have three problems with Linux for the "average" (<-- a step above me!!) desktop user:

1. In the year that i have been "attempting" to make use of Linux the install has become much easier... but i still manage to run into way to many problems such as being unable to install with a usb keyboard or mouse!! Ease of install is huge because Dell, Gateway etc... are not going to begin offering it pre-installed anytime soon so the avg joe has to be able to do it without pulling out all his/her hair.

2. All distros need to conform to the Linux Standards Base!! All you experts have no problems compiling and installing these programs manually but the avg joe will go crazy. If software companies could compile the program one time and have it work for all distros i think the number of companies writing for Linux would be greater. Same thing for customer support, how can any company possibly support thier product on so many distros? >>




Or they can hand out the source code to these distros so they can compile it and then have them return back the resulting rpms to them to distribute. Then again I think that's not the big reason why some companies don't want to or can't make drivers or programs for Linux




<< 3. Should be 2a! If all the distros would conform to the LSB would it not be easier for hardware manufacturers to write drivers for Linux? >>




Why would any hardware maker risk fearing the might of Bea$t and lose the right to have their drivers get the coveted WHQL credentials ? Then suffer by not having it's hardware included in on big OEM deals because they wen't against the will of the Bea$t and decided to be a little more friendly with the precived enemy of the Bea$t ?




<< As individual distros none have the penetration into the desktop market to attract hardware/software companies to write for them. With LSB they would form a much larger and more inticing business oportunity to offer.

As for the desktop itself, i use KDE 2.2.2 (at least until i crash the damn thing again!) and find it as easy to use as windows for everyday tasks.

One final thought (ouch, that hurt!!), as far as the desktops and office suites have come it would be unbelievable to see the progress that could have been made without so many different projects doing the same work. It looks to me as though KDE and Gnome are trying to accomplish the same goals with thier desktops and office suites, to bad they don't pool thier ideas and effort to create one great product rather than two very good ones.

But then what the h*ll do i know? (Don't answer that)

Doh!! >>



Well you can always just choose one GUI and Office Suite and stick with it instead of forcing yourself to use all of them at once. I guess freedom of choice does bare some heavy burdens with it.
 


<< It's kinda sad to say this... but there is only one MAIN reason why I have a 2k box... Half-Life (CS and TFC). Everything else I do, is either designed for linux, or something I can do with linux... >>




That is EXTRA sad, since thats no reason to use Windows... HL/CS runs great in Linux using WINE.. its one of the most used programs under WINE in all its history...maybe you should try it, and free yourself from the bondage and tyrany that is Microsoft.


Screenshot:
Half-Life/CS running in SuSe Gnome


Web page with HowTO:
Linux Half-Life Page

 
One small foo-foo request would be that after installing programs, an icon would be put somewhere convenient(eg: desktop, start menu) so you don't have to go and search down and/or create them.
 


<<

<< It's kinda sad to say this... but there is only one MAIN reason why I have a 2k box... Half-Life (CS and TFC). Everything else I do, is either designed for linux, or something I can do with linux... >>




That is EXTRA sad, since thats no reason to use Windows... HL/CS runs great in Linux using WINE.. its one of the most used programs under WINE in all its history...maybe you should try it, and free yourself from the bondage and tyrany that is Microsoft.


Screenshot:
Half-Life/CS running in SuSe Gnome


Web page with HowTO:
Linux Half-Life Page >>


I just got my new computer in this last week... I installed mandrake 7.1, wine, and everything that went with it... Crappy, crappy, crappy quality... So, I had to suck it up, and install 2k. I'm more than happy to give it another try... Like I said, I only use winblows for CS...
 


<< One small foo-foo request would be that after installing programs, an icon would be put somewhere convenient(eg: desktop, start menu) so you don't have to go and search down and/or create them. >>


well since there are so many (ok, 2 😛) desktop environments, they would have to individually track programs...and desktop environment's just dont really tie in with package management (and if you compile, then you can just forget about the idea 😛).

although the program "menu" keeps wm/de menu's up to date with programs, but that also restricts your menu...i just make my own (small) menu.
 
What Linux doesn't need is high profile Red Hat execs saying Linux won't survive w/o Microsoft products like IE and Office. 😛
 
Decent APIs! Win32 is great and untill Linux doesn't have one like it no one will want to program for it!
Too many libs to use, to many third-party compilers, etc!

Drivers that are independent of the kernel version. Which means a driver API that both the driver and the kernel can
use to communicate with each other...

A GUI API that is independent of the WM/Desktop that is used, the desktop would use wrappers around the API functions
to assure that the application would be created as it should under that WM.

I don't agree with ease of use, KDE/GNOME are very easy to use. A user doesn't need to install apps, drivers, etc. So the
this doesn't apply. What applies is ease of installation/configuration and this is getting better with each new release!

But you won't have to worry much, because if the CBDTPA bill is aproved, persons from the US will be stuck with windows
of MAC OS! Read this Article
for a bit more insight...
 
From what I've heard, Win32 is a horrible API to program for.
Not that I have first hand experience, but most people I've heard talking about it seem to think so.

Of course lots of people seem to think GTK/+ sucks too, while many seem to like QT.
 
I've dabbled in Win32 C programming a bit in the past. It's a horrible programming API.

I think thornc is referring to the Win32 platform as a whole; even then, it's very arguable how great things are. Popularity through illegal monopoly abuse and greatness are two different things.
 


<< Companies need to stop being so MS-centric develop with Linux in mind. Other then that I really don't care about Linux ever replacing Windows as much as some poeple do now that I have found my Linux-groove. >>


Why would they want to develop for Linux??? Compared to the money they make selling for the MS market the profit from Linux-oriented sales would barely come out over the development costs. Then you also have the fact that most Linux users try to use free or cheap alternatives. So if they develop a software package for Linux there's a good chance that many Linux users will look at the free alternatives anyway. They want to increase profit, not drive it down.
 


<<

<< Companies need to stop being so MS-centric develop with Linux in mind. Other then that I really don't care about Linux ever replacing Windows as much as some poeple do now that I have found my Linux-groove. >>


Why would they want to develop for Linux??? Compared to the money they make selling for the MS market the profit from Linux-oriented sales would barely come out over the development costs. Then you also have the fact that most Linux users try to use free or cheap alternatives. So if they develop a software package for Linux there's a good chance that many Linux users will look at the free alternatives anyway. They want to increase profit, not drive it down. >>



Hey Psychoholic, havent seen you around lately. Hope everything is going well. Anyhow, several companies have begun to support Linux. Oracle does. nVidia is providing drivers for their video cards, ATI is also supporting the XFree86 group with information on their cards. Matrox has always helped out the Open Source community. Sun sells some Linux solutions (Cobalt products) and several big companies have been endorsing and supporting Linux (Dell, IBM, etc). Apple has even helped support open source/free software groups. Many of these companies are getting some good press from the linux community. If I see a product that is superior and will provide me with much needed abilities (or whatnot) I have no problem with purchasing it. Linuxsoftware sales would definitely be a smaller profit than the Windows software, but that does not make it futile.
 
to tell you the truth, i dont think linux should try to evolve with a goal of replacing windows, and i dont think it is doing that. i am fine with linux's 'difficulty', what i'm more worried about is MS' presence and shady business tactics.
 
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