Burn a koran, go to jail for 70 days.. UK!

[HAL9000]

I have a few names for you, but I don't want to get an infraction. :awe:

Fair enough, if any of them are witty or intelligent PM me them

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Fair enough, if any of them are witty or intelligent PM me them

Shouldn't you be in bed? With the excitement of the upcoming royal wedding, I'm sure you need all the sleep you can get. I'd recommend cutting back on your posting to conserve energy.

P.S. On topic -- 70 days in jail? LOL!

 

[HAL9000]

Shouldn't you be in bed? With the excitement of the upcoming royal wedding, I'm sure you need all the sleep you can get. I'd recommend cutting back on your posting to conserve energy.

Oh yeah! I forgot about that. I nearly wet myself with excit... I don't care about it, it's my birthday on the 27th I'm far more interested in that than two people I will probably never meet getting married. I'm not a celebrity kind of person.

 

[FallenHero]

I'd have said the same about your government for allowing hate speech.

Freedom of speech is now hate speech?

 

[HAL9000]

Freedom of speech is now hate speech?

Freedom of speech (in the American sense) does allow hate speech

 

[child of wonder]

The article doesn't specify. Did he go to prison for 70 days because of burning the Koran or because he stole a book from the library and burned it?

 

[HAL9000]

The article doesn't specify. Did he go to prison for 70 days because of burning the Koran or because he stole a book from the library and burned it?

Lol. It was the burning the koran, in public as an act of hate towards muslims. There is a fine for not returning library books over here, not a prison sentence.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Freedom of speech is now hate speech?

Brits don't understand freedom of speech, straight up. It's just not a value to them.

 

[TuxDave]

Freedom of speech (in the American sense) does allow hate speech

A person is allowed to say he hates some religion/race/etc.... He is not allowed to do so oif it encourages violent acts given that a threat is imminent. Sort of along the lines of "free speech but you can't yell fire in a crowded room"

 

[HAL9000]

A person is allowed to say he hates some religion/race/etc.... He is not allowed to do so oif it encourages violent acts given that a threat is imminent. Sort of along the lines of "free speech but you can't yell fire in a crowded room"

Yep, that's the way it works in the US of A.

 

[HAL9000]

Brits don't understand freedom of speech, straight up. It's just not a value to them.

Americans do seem to think this, it's not the case.

 

[TuxDave]

Yep, that's the way it works in the US of A.

So how come you're so comfortable with making fun of Americans? Hate speech!!!

 

[HAL9000]

So how come you're so comfortable with making fun of Americans? Hate speech!!!

I don't hate. I question.

 

[FallenHero]

A person is allowed to say he hates some religion/race/etc.... He is not allowed to do so oif it encourages violent acts given that a threat is imminent. Sort of along the lines of "free speech but you can't yell fire in a crowded room"

So basically, all a religious group has to do to prevent any sort of speech against them is threaten violence against anyone that speaks of them in a negative manner and suddenly, it's hate speech and thus disallowed?

Seems more like the person should be allowed to speak his or her mind and be protected FROM the violence rather then protecting those that threaten violence. Completely backwards thinking.

And it is not the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater. That isn't protected because it does not express an opinion. It instead creates a panic from a false statement that has a very high probability of injury and death. There is no debate involved in yelling fire, and is not even close to me burning any sort of religious symbol.

 

[Ruptga]

This seems fair enough. By now it's obvious what kind of bs that kind of bs stirs up; it just can't be allowed to go unchecked. 70 days is long enough to be meaningful, but not so long as to be ridiculous.

That said, I will have to revise my opinion if the poppy burner isn't in the neighboring cell.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Americans do seem to think this, it's not the case.

It very clearly is. You just think that labeling something "hate speech" is sufficient reason for someone's opinion to be suppressed. You use that word like it's magic, and hearing it is supposed to stop the discussion right there. Well, fuck that shit. Unpopular speech is the kind most in need of protection.

 

[HAL9000]

So basically, all a religious group has to do to prevent any sort of speech against them is threaten violence against anyone that speaks of them in a negative manner and suddenly, it's hate speech and thus disallowed?

Seems more like the person should be allowed to speak his or her mind and be protected FROM the violence rather then protecting those that threaten violence. Completely backwards thinking.

And it is not the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater. That isn't protected because it does not express an opinion. It instead creates a panic from a false statement that has a very high probability of injury and death. There is no debate involved in yelling fire, and is not even close to me burning any sort of religious symbol.

I think you've got it the wrong way round, I believe the point he was making is that in america you can't spread hate if it is in sighting your followers to act violently, not for fear of repercussions from the subjects of your hate.

 

[HAL9000]

It very clearly is. You just think that labeling something "hate speech" is sufficient reason for someone's opinion to be suppressed. You use that word like it's magic, and hearing it is supposed to stop the discussion right there. Well, fuck that shit. Unpopular speech is the kind most in need of protection.

there is a difference between saying something unpopular and saying something like "god hates fags"

 

[FallenHero]

I think you've got it the wrong way round, I believe the point he was making is that in america you can't spread hate if it is in sighting your followers to act violently, not for fear of repercussions from the subjects of your hate.

I'm not arguing british or american laws, I'm arguing the concept. It's stupid any way you paint it. Just because someone is offended by me saying the word "retard" doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to say it. If anytime I said retard I was attacked by a group of offended people, the government should step in and protect me and my right to free speech, since a right not to be offended doesn't exist in Britain or America.

 

[Schadenfroh]

I'll burn 2 Korans to protest his sentencing... okay, I don't have one of those. I've got a Book of Mormon and a Gideon Bible...

Why not just burn a large cross in a public place? I am sure that will send the desired message.

 

[TuxDave]

So basically, all a religious group has to do to prevent any sort of speech against them is threaten violence against anyone that speaks of them in a negative manner and suddenly, it's hate speech and thus disallowed?

Seems more like the person should be allowed to speak his or her mind and be protected FROM the violence rather then protecting those that threaten violence. Completely backwards thinking.

And it is not the same as yelling fire in a crowded theater. That isn't protected because it does not express an opinion. It instead creates a panic from a false statement that has a very high probability of injury and death. There is no debate involved in yelling fire, and is not even close to me burning any sort of religious symbol.

lol wut. I'm saying you can't say "Hey I hate <this group of people>. We're going to go and murder them now! We should all get together and kill them all"

I have no idea what you're thinking of. My example of "yelling fire" is just an example of how free speech is limited along with hate speech.

 

[HAL9000]

I'm not arguing british or american laws, I'm arguing the concept. It's stupid any way you paint it. Just because someone is offended by me saying the word "retard" doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to say it. If anytime I said retard I was attacked by a group of offended people, the government should step in and protect me and my right to free speech, since a right not to be offended doesn't exist in Britain or America.

There is also a difference between spreading hate and being offensive. Hate speech:

Hate speech is, outside the law, any communication that disparages a person or a group on the basis of some characteristic such as race, gender, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or other characteristic.[1][2] In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group. The law may identify a protected individual or a protected group by race, gender, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, or other characteristic.[3] In some countries, a victim of hate speech may seek redress under civil law, criminal law, or both. In some countries, such as the United States, hate speech laws have been held to be incompatible with free speech.[4]

 

[FallenHero]

lol wut. I'm saying you can't say "Hey I hate <this group of people>. We're going to go and murder them now! We should all get together and kill them all"

I have no idea what you're thinking of. My example of "yelling fire" is just an example of how free speech is limited along with hate speech.

Those are "fighting words" not freedom of speech. That is deliberately inciting violence. Burning a holy text is not on the same level.

 

[1prophet]

I approve this action. Hate crimes should not be tolerated, luckily in the UK they aren't.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2135999&page=4

My biggest problem with religion is that it spreads intolerance, delusion and it divides people / communities / nations. It causes more problems than it solves, bands together the stupid and the susceptible. Organised religion is run be intelligent deluded frauds.

No matter how slick you think you are jumping from one side of the fence to the other, eventually you will get your balls caught on a hook and right now you are bleeding badly.

 

[FallenHero]

There is also a difference between spreading hate and being offensive. Hate speech:

So at what point would it cross over from being offensive to becoming hate speech? If I formed a large enough group that became violent anytime someone mentioned the word "watermelon" because my people find the word sacred, would then the government silence anyone that says Watermelon?