Burn a koran, go to jail for 70 days.. UK!

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HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
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Obviously not. He seems to be willing to erode free speech until it is useless because people might be "offended."

I am offended everyday at work. People call me all sorts of obscene, nasty things. On these boards, its sad to see that same type of speech used against my profession. However, never will I advocate the restriction of that speech so I can feel better about myself. That type of speech is just as protected as the guy across the street, telling people about his political views or the Church trying to convince people to worship their god. I find it almost offensive that people are so willing to give up that freedom.

You don't seem to understand the difference between offence and hate.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
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Why do you guys argue with neckbeard? Fuck, this place would be way better off if we universally ignored him.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
BTW, I support this soldier. Those cowards are disrespecting vets, they should take some of their own medicine.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
0
0
You don't seem to understand the difference between offence and hate.

I do.

You blur the line that separates the two. If enough people become offended, it becomes hate speech. That is your viewpoint, no? If it is not, enlighten me.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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I understand the dictionary definitions obviously, What I don't understand is how Americans can proclaim to be truly free, when your freedoms are only freedoms of speech not freedom from speech as well.

We do have the freedom from speech, it's called freedom of mobility. We can walk away from it. We can also ignore it or shout them down. We have numerous ways to deal with it. It's the person who is being offended's responsibility to deal with it, not the government. You relinquish some liberty every time you ask the government to do something for you. Like I said, you don't understand liberty.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
I do.

You blur the line that separates the two. If enough people become offended, it becomes hate speech. That is your viewpoint, no? If it is not, enlighten me.

There is a difference between offending someones beliefs or offending someones senses with targeting a group of people and preaching hate about them.
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
We do have the freedom from speech, it's called freedom of mobility. We can walk away from it. We can also ignore it or shout them down. We have numerous ways to deal with it. It's the person who is being offended's responsibility to deal with it, not the government. You relinquish some liberty every time you ask the government to do something for you. Like I said, you don't understand liberty.

What about when you are trying to have a funeral and the WBC are standing opposite screaming hate. We are the government, the government are the people. They aren't two separate entities battling it out, they are comprised of subjects elected by subjects. (obviously except the monarchy who have no real power)
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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There is a difference between offending someones beliefs or offending someones senses with targeting a group of people and preaching hate about them.

what if people being offended by what i say offends me? in fact, i believe it is in fact hateful to be offended by what i say. i mean, the only reason they're offended is because they hate me right?
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
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what if people being offended by what i say offends me? in fact, i believe it is in fact hateful to be offended by what i say. i mean, the only reason they're offended is because they hate me right?

Sorry I didn't follow that, it's early in the morning here.

Take a look at actions made by anarchists in London. That is hate... and damage to property.

And it is a crime.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
0
0
There is a difference between offending someones beliefs or offending someones senses with targeting a group of people and preaching hate about them.

Example time (the following does not express my personal viewpoint, but is merely being used to illustrate a point)

Imagine someone at a podium yelling:
"Anyone who declares themselves gay or commits any sort of homosexual act is a lovely human that needs to burn in hell for all eternity."

Or:

"White power! White Power! Gooks and Negros are less then human and should be treated like the dogs they are!"

Now, are those offensive, or hateful in your view? And why?
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
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Squatting is a form of hate speech. Why else would they squat if they didn't hate what the person and their home stood for? Obviously hate speech that is detrimental to society and has to be stopped!
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Example time (the following does not express my personal viewpoint, but is merely being used to illustrate a point)

Imagine someone at a podium yelling:
"Anyone who declares themselves gay or commits any sort of homosexual act is a lovely human that needs to burn in hell for all eternity."

Or:

"White power! White Power! Gooks and Negros are less then human and should be treated like the dogs they are!"

Now, are those offensive, or hateful in your view? And why?

They are both hate filled they are expressing hate for a group. Preaching hate. Degrading a group based on race religion sexuality etc.

Squatting is a form of hate speech. Why else would they squat if they didn't hate what the person and their home stood for? Obviously hate speech that is detrimental to society and has to be stopped!

There's no speech involved in squatting you are inferring from an action hate, when there is no evidence of a causal link.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
There is no speech involved in burning a Koran either, what's your point? PS Actions can count as speech.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
I have a problem with religion, the concept, Not the religious. I do not hate any specific religion, I spread no hate about individuals or groups. I hate the concept the abstract notion of religion. I am only on one side of the fence with this debate.

So you hate the Sin not the Sinner?:D

The problem you have is a false definition of multiculturalism which has allowed people like yourself to define people and cultures interchangeably and it will eventually backfire when it comes to human rights like freedom of speech.

Don't believe me, here is someone more knowledgeable and capable of revealing the flawed logic you hold onto and its ramifications.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XytGTYY_p4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGpJ9dvpiVo&feature=related
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
So you hate the Sin not the Sinner?:D

The problem you have is a false definition of multiculturalism which has allowed people like yourself to define people and cultures interchangeably and it will eventually backfire when it comes to human rights like freedom of speech.

Don't believe me, here is someone more knowledgeable and capable of revealing the flawed logic you hold onto and its ramifications.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XytGTYY_p4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGpJ9dvpiVo&feature=related

Marked for the morning. I need sleep, Will return tomorrow.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
0
0
They are both hate filled they are expressing hate for a group. Preaching hate. Degrading a group based on race religion sexuality etc.



There's no speech involved in squatting you are inferring from an action hate, when there is no evidence of a causal link.

So lets revisit my "Watermelon" group. My group, after gaining much momentum, suddenly declares that the word "Watermelon" cannot be spoken in public as it is a forbidden word in my religion. They further state that anyone that says "watermelon" in public is deliberately hateful towards my group as they knowingly offend and incite violence within my group, as they feel that it "degrades" them as a whole. Do you then agree that "watermelon" cannot be spoken in public because this group finds it degrading?
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
It's fairly obvious that we're going to argue about US vs. UK laws. I mean, you're there, we're here.. and we left your country because we didn't like it. Your laws are normal to you, our laws are normal to us. Obviously both work, so it is going to be difficult to objectively tear them apart.

This has so many analogs with a religious discussion, it's actually quite profound. It's no different than a <religion> vs. <religion> debate. Except the Gods are governments.

:hmm:

I have to admit it's pretty funny watching people try and explain a simple concept like "free speech" though. We really take it for granted.
 
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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,654
1,915
136
Wasn't the burning of the Poppy also a hate crime? Shouldn't both people involved go to jail? The Poppy burner and the Koran burner? They can share a jail cell, should make for some interesting conversation.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81

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