Building Gaming PC

[mionescu]

Hey,

Gonna build my first (full) PC next week, and just looking for some last minute advice/confirmation on my hardware choices. I did a lot of research during the past month, and based on my needs, prices, hardware quality, and store locations, this is the best setup I could think of.

Keep in mind I am a hardcore gamer, but I will also use this PC for map making (Quake 4, CS:S, etc.). My philosophy has always been "If it's good enough for games, it's good enough for everything else". Ok, on with it already...

Case: Ultra Aluminus Blue
Power Supply: Ultra X2 550
Motherboard: DFI Lan Party Ultra-D
CPU: Athlon 64 3000+ Venice O/C'ed ~2.7-3.0 (hopefully)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright XP-120
CPU Cooler Fan: Silverstone FM121
RAM: OCZ El Platinum 2 GB 2-3-2-5 PC3200
Video Card: PNY 7900 GT O/C'ed ~ +50-80% (HOPEFULLY!)
Video Card Cooler: Zalman VF900CU
Hard Drive: WD Raptor 150
Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 997MB
DVD-RW: LG GSA-4167B
Case Fans: 2 x Silverstone FM121
Thermal Paste: Arctic Silver

Total: $2000 Canadian (half will be shipped from NCIX.com and half I will buy from a local TigerDirect store)

**NOT BUYING YET**
Sound Card: Buying about 2 weeks later. I still don't know if I should get an older generation Audigy or pay ~$140 for a Xi-Fi Xtreme Music.
Headphones: Same as above. Still not decided. I don't know if I wan't to go with the Sennheiser PC160SK, or if I should go with some other brand.

The weird thing that some people may notice is that I went "value" on the two things that gaming demands most. The videocard and the CPU. The reason for this is because these two components are notorious for being heavily overclockable. Choosing these parts allowed me to stay ~$2000 CA.

Any thoughts or comments will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Bobthelost]

Avoid the ultra PSU, you don't need that much power ( a good 350W can handle a single core AMD and a 7900GT with ease) and Ultra aren't known as a quilality builder.

While you may see benifits from the raptor 150, you will get better graphics if you were to go for a cheaper HD and a better graphics card.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Mark & study http://www.mechbgon.com/


...Galvanized

 

[mionescu]

I'm buying the case and the PS as a combo from TigerDirect.ca, so that's why I'm willing to go for 550W. Plus, I'm making this PC because I have none ATM. I'm definetly going to upgrade to dual 7900 GT's, and w/e else down the road. The 550 PS will most definetly be useful in the future. As for the Raptor/Videcard issue, the reason I went with an OC'ed 7900 GT is because it performs as well (if not better) as a 7900 GTX, and consumes a lot less power. And hooking up two of these badboys (both OC'ed, mind you) in the future sounds like a good idea to me. I really didn't see a reason to go with a better videocard. And finally, the one thing that has given me stomach pains (from the stress, no joke) is a slow harddrive that makes that irking sound when it's trying desperately to do its job. The Raptor 150 will be a breath of fresh air for me.

 

[mionescu]

Originally posted by: GalvanizedYankee
Mark & study http://www.mechbgon.com/


...Galvanized

Thx. I will use it when I need it for sure. Don't get me wrong though, me and my cousin know how to put together PC's. It's just that this is the first full blown system I have put together. Your link is appreciated none the less. Thanks.

 

[Bobthelost]

Originally posted by: mionescu
I'm buying the case and the PS as a combo from TigerDirect.ca, so that's why I'm willing to go for 550W. Plus, I'm making this PC because I have none ATM. I'm definetly going to upgrade to dual 7900 GT's, and w/e else down the road. The 550 PS will most definetly be useful in the future.

If you're definitly buying dual cards then a 500W PSU would be a good idea, but i do not trust ultra that much, i'd put them with antec in the "OK, but you can do better" category of PSUs. Enermax, fortron, seasonic, OCZ, silverstone and PCP&C are all much better choices.
Remember too that unless you're upgrading to dual 7900GTs in the next six months or so it's a rather bad idea (as the next generation of graphics cards will be released, without a noticable decrease of the cost of the 7900GT and it'll be difficult to find an exactly matched card, so odds are that you'll have to run them both at a lower speed etc.)

As for the Raptor/Videcard issue, the reason I went with an OC'ed 7900 GT is because it performs as well (if not better) as a 7900 GTX, and consumes a lot less power.

No it doesn't, you're (badly) mistaken on that one. The 7900GT is a slightly faster version of the 7800GTX, notice the 8 there

And hooking up two of these badboys (both OC'ed, mind you) in the future sounds like a good idea to me. I really didn't see a reason to go with a better videocard. And finally, the one thing that has given me stomach pains (from the stress, no joke) is a slow harddrive that makes that irking sound when it's trying desperately to do its job. The Raptor 150 will be a breath of fresh air for me.

The raptor is a very fast hard drive, and as far as map loads and media encoding etc go it'll be great. However after you've loaded the map up a good 7200 drive is more than sufficent, it won't aid your frame rates at all. If it's the noise of it seeking then you'll want to look at samsung spinpoints anyway.

 

[mionescu]

Read my first post again. I didn't get the 7900 GT to run it stock.

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3437&s=4

Check out that link. I'm going for the volt mod. At the core/mem frequencies listed on the site, the 7900 GT becomes a monster.

As for Ultra's reputation, all the reviews of the X2 550 I've checked out have been spectacular.

As for FPS increase, I'm well aware that a harddrive doesn't increase your game speed. I changed the title of the thread so I don't receieve anymore obvious (to me at least) remarks. Sorry for the initial thread name, it was a bit misleading and made me look new to the hardware game.

Oh yeah, finally, I will upgrade to a 2nd 7900 GT in June or maybe even at the end of May, so I'm not worried about future cards. Whatever comes out in 6 months (if it's good enough), I will buy.

 

[Bobthelost]

I see, in which case crack on with the 7900GT. Just remember you'll need a very good cooling system for that overclock, hard to do with two cards.

The ultra has had ok reviews, the only well done review i know of other than jonnyGURU's on it is at spcr, where it was given a moderate review but not overwhelming. JonnyGURU's opinion on ultras isn't all that reliable as he has some sort of connection to the company.

As for your "obvious" remarks comment, your knowledge of hardware was not obvious at first glance, and faced with a daily choice between assuming the person who picked a rather unbalanced rig is doing so for a good reason or because they don't know what they are doing, it's the latter option that proves correct nearly every time... except this one perhaps

 

[mionescu]

I was just trying to make a nice entrance lol next time i'll be more natural. Anyway, about the 7900's, ******, I don't know if they will even make it as far as I want to push them. I hope they do, but I don't expect them to reach the insane vr-zone speeds. Cooling shouldn't be a problem, the Silverstones are gonna be pushing an insane amount of air, and considering I'll be wearing headphones, I could care less about the sound. Man, I still don't know where you're finding these Ultra X2 reviews, but I can't find a single one that doesn't give it major props for being a kickass product. Goto Ultra's site and you'll see the tons of great reviews this product has received.

 

[Bobthelost]

Ok, let's look at those reviews:

http://www.pcmoddingmy.com/content.php?review.237
Link didn't work for me, not a good start.

http://www.techgage.com/review.php?id=801
Worthless review, motherboard monitor and a very low spec computer.

http://legionhardware.com/document.php?id=397
Equally worthless, not stressed either, low spec rig and not even motherboard monitor voltage testing.

http://www.ocia.net/reviews/ultra/page4.shtml
Motherboard monitor tested, but a half decent write up in places, yet again a very low spec system, not in a thousand years will it stress the PSU.

http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/articles/show/641/3
A more interesting writeup, and a rather high powered system in comparison to the others. But still a rather poor writeup all told, the bit labeled efficency is rather annoying in it's misleading nature.

http://www.moddin.net/review.asp?ReviewID=172
Worst review i've read so far, this line just pissed me right off : "All I can say is that performance wise this PSU should be suitable for most people but if you are wanting to hook up more than a normal PC then perhaps you should opt for their 600W PSU instead." This is the sort of bullshit that makes people with 3700+ 7900GT systems need a 500W PSU. :|

http://www.techniz.co.uk/modules.php?name=Reviews&rop=showcontent&id=91
That one's just crap, but it gets the editor's award! Woo bloody hoo! (Incidentally the editor should be shot, just after the person who proof read it is gunned down).



Now for a review from one of the better review sites (SPCR, if you're not an audiophile then it's not a problem, just ignore the sound files):
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article288-page1.html

For all of its glossy glory, the Ultra X-Finity is ordinary beneath its surface. Voltage regulation and efficiency were average, and although cooling was adequate at the levels for ordinary usage, it was not good enough for sustained use under the heaviest loads. Its worst aspect is the noise; almost any other power supply we've tested in the past year will beat the X-Finity for low noise.
<snip>
But, if you're willing to settle for "good enough" rather than "top-of-the-line" and you like the looks or you would feel safer in the hands of a lifetime warranty, the X-Finity could be for you.

(Note, i'm just picking the bad stuff out of the review there to counter the stuff that the others didn't mention or find)

None of the review sites that i read on the ultra site tested it with a SLI setup, let alone a crossfire system that would put it under any pressure. When it was stressed out by seasonic it started looking rocky. There's a thousand and one sites that review products just so that the reviewer gets free goodies, you need to find a place that will occasionally say slam a product when it deserves it. The source of the review is just as important as what it says.

 

[mionescu]

I had a chunk load stating how you are extremely biased. But I then realized you hadn't even taken the care to read what power supply I am actually buying. The X2 550W, not the X-Infinity 500W.

EDIT: I just realized how careless you really are. The positive reviews you posted (deemed worthless by you, oh great one) are of the X-Connect 500W units. The only negative one (deemed accurate, of course) is of the X-Finity, a totally different power supply. GG care.

Starting off: http://www.ultraproducts.com/reviews.php

"The Ultra X-Connect 2 550w ATX PSU is a rare breed offering a stylish and practical design, combined with award winning performance. Of course this is a specialty item, as the $110 US price tag suggests. However, when compared to the majority of high quality 550watt power supplies out their, the X-Connect 2 is very well priced."

"Ultra has done it again, releasing a top-notch power supply. Out of the box the power supply felt like a high quality piece of equipment. It had a good weight and sturdiness in your hands that just inst present on the cheaper power supplies that are available. Stable voltages even under load show this power supply is here to work."

"Anyone who's a seriously gamer with an SLI or CrossFire setup will definitely appreciate this Ultra X-Finity 500W Power Supply."

 

[Bobthelost]

Originally posted by: mionescu
I had a chunk load stating how you are extremely biased. But I then realized you hadn't even taken the care to read what power supply I am actually buying. The X2 550W, not the X-Infinity 500W.

EDIT: I just realized how careless you really are. The positive reviews you posted (deemed worthless by you, oh great one) are of the X-Connect 500W units. The only negative one (deemed accurate, of course) is of the X-Finity, a totally different power supply. GG care.

Starting off: http://www.ultraproducts.com/reviews.php

"The Ultra X-Connect 2 550w ATX PSU is a rare breed offering a stylish and practical design, combined with award winning performance. Of course this is a specialty item, as the $110 US price tag suggests. However, when compared to the majority of high quality 550watt power supplies out their, the X-Connect 2 is very well priced."

"Ultra has done it again, releasing a top-notch power supply. Out of the box the power supply felt like a high quality piece of equipment. It had a good weight and sturdiness in your hands that just inst present on the cheaper power supplies that are available. Stable voltages even under load show this power supply is here to work."

"Anyone who's a seriously gamer with an SLI or CrossFire setup will definitely appreciate this Ultra X-Finity 500W Power Supply."

Indeed, i was careless as i don't trust the brand at all, no matter which model you choose.

Where are those reviews from?

Oh i see:
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=526
Where they are testing it on a single card, single cored system what looks like motherboard monitor and a 2 hour sustained load period. There's a reason you bench prime 95 for eight hours. Shite review, not worth the effort of refering to.

http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/cases/ultra/psu/x2/
That's not a review, what a bloody joke. LOOK AT IT.

http://www.3dgameman.com/vr/ultra_produ...00w_psu_xfinity/written_review_03.html

Wow, the first SLI test bed i've seen, of course even here it's a single core CPU and 7800GTs being used to bench it with, so it's drawing about the same as a P4 with a X1900XT. Alsot taken with a mulitmeter, which is nice.

Originally posted by: mionescu
"Anyone who's a seriously gamer with an SLI or CrossFire setup will definitely appreciate this Ultra X-Finity 500W Power Supply."

Hold it, careless? You've just C&P'd a review of a different PSU too, bloody brilliant you are too sherlock!

Fact is that the reviews on that site are from 2nd or 3rd rate reviewers. The first rank reviewers don't seem to be as fanatical about them, i wonder why.

Of course if you want to get it then i can't stop you, but it's a bad choice, for the same money you can get a better PSU.

 

[Praxis1452]

I really have to agree with Bob. If your gonna buy a PSU get a 500W seasonic(note issues with DFI mobo's). Or NeoHE or a ocz powerstream 520W. Really quality matter in a power supply. And look at some top notch review sites...

 

[mionescu]

Bob, you could have been a little less predictable with quoting the last quote, as I knew you would. You should have taken some time to think as to why I added it. And no, those quotes weren't meant for the X2 only, as I could have easily added the source and product. It's to show that while one site praises a product, another can pass it off as an "average" performer. Don't be so naive to think that certain reviewers are "told" to give good recommendations to the reviewed product while others are "honest". Everyone can be bought, and a bad review is as easily bought as a good one. Having said that, if my Ultra X2 550 ever breaks down under an SLI configuration, I'll come on this forum and kiss your e-ass.

 

[Praxis1452]

wha? your gonna kick bob's ass cause you were wrong?

 

[Crescent13]

You need some help choosing parts.


Case: Get an Antec case, much better airflow and reliability.
Power Supply: I wouldn't trust any computer with an Ultra PSU, and I cannot stress enough how bad theese are. They can kill computers because of how unreliable they are. get a 450 - 500W Fortron source.
Motherboard: Stay away form DFI, nothing but trouble. I got one, had tons and tons of problems, RMA'ed it and now i'm happy. DFI boards used to be good but their QC has been lacking lately. Get an Epox 9npa+Ultra for cheaper. It OC's wonderfully too. I put one in my dad's comp.
CPU: Get an Opteron 144, twice the cache, much more overclockability, and about the same price (use the money you saved on the cheaper mobo to spend on the opty 144)
CPU Cooler: I would get a Zalman CNPS9500, I have one, and It simply owns. It cools just about as well as liquid cooling.
RAM: Good :thumbsup:
Video Card: Get an EVGA, BFG, or XFX card. PNY Sucks.
Video Card Cooler: Great :thumbsup:
Hard Drive: Don't waste your money on a Raptor, get a 16MB Cache WD 250GB HDD.
Monitor: Lol you're gonna need someone else to help you out with the monitor.
DVD-RW: Get a NEC 3550A.
Case Fans: If you get an Antec case you won't need any.
Thermal Paste: Arctic Silver is the only option.
Sound Card: Get an x-fi xtreme music, more future proof, and wonderful headphone abilities.

 

[essasin]

Originally posted by: mionescu
Bob, you could have been a little less predictable with quoting the last quote, as I knew you would. You should have taken some time to think as to why I added it. And no, those quotes weren't meant for the X2 only, as I could have easily added the source and product. It's to show that while one site praises a product, another can pass it off as an "average" performer. Don't be so naive to think that certain reviewers are "told" to give good recommendations to the reviewed product while others are "honest". Everyone can be bought, and a bad review is as easily bought as a good one. Having said that, if my Ultra X2 550 ever breaks down under an SLI configuration, I'll come on this forum and kiss your e-ass.

He was trying to help you out. Search on the fourms and you will know why we do not recommend ultra power supplies or modular power supplies for that matter. There are many reasons but one of the main issues is that the modular design has issues with efficency to say the least.

 

[Praxis1452]

Well well made modular PSU's are fine. They do have more resistance but I highly doubt it will matter much. Ultra PSU's though... scare me with the excesive amount of glitter on them...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Crescent13
You need some help choosing parts.


Case: Get an Antec case, much better airflow and reliability.
Power Supply: I wouldn't trust any computer with an Ultra PSU, and I cannot stress enough how bad theese are. They can kill computers because of how unreliable they are. get a 450 - 500W Fortron source.
Motherboard: Stay away form DFI, nothing but trouble. I got one, had tons and tons of problems, RMA'ed it and now i'm happy. DFI boards used to be good but their QC has been lacking lately. Get an Epox 9npa+Ultra for cheaper. It OC's wonderfully too. I put one in my dad's comp.
CPU: Get an Opteron 144, twice the cache, much more overclockability, and about the same price (use the money you saved on the cheaper mobo to spend on the opty 144)
CPU Cooler: I would get a Zalman CNPS9500, I have one, and It simply owns. It cools just about as well as liquid cooling.
RAM: Good :thumbsup:
Video Card: Get an EVGA, BFG, or XFX card. PNY Sucks.
Video Card Cooler: Great :thumbsup:
Hard Drive: Don't waste your money on a Raptor, get a 16MB Cache WD 250GB HDD.
Monitor: Lol you're gonna need someone else to help you out with the monitor.
DVD-RW: Get a NEC 3550A.
Case Fans: If you get an Antec case you won't need any.
Thermal Paste: Arctic Silver is the only option.
Sound Card: Get an x-fi xtreme music, more future proof, and wonderful headphone abilities.

all conjecture....links to support your blatantly uninformed statement would be nice..

Every review I have read recently give ULTRA a good rating....
Maybe a few years ago what you speculate were ULTRA PSU issues could have been trut.

But as of late....ULTRA is a good solid brand....here a link..

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article288-page5.html -- note SPCR stands for Silent...

CONCLUSIONS

For all of its glossy glory, the Ultra X-Finity is ordinary beneath its surface. Voltage regulation and efficiency were average, and although cooling was adequate at the levels for ordinary usage, it was not good enough for sustained use under the heaviest loads. Its worst aspect is the noise; almost any other power supply we've tested in the past year will beat the X-Finity for low noise.

What the X-Finity lacks in technical substance can be made up at least partially by the company that is selling it. Ultra has very good marketing, not just because it is likely to generate sales, but also because of its technical comprehensiveness and apparent honesty. Yes, a good chunk of the product page consists of meaningless (and fragmented) phrases, but this is common enough, and the technical information is surprisingly complete. Ultra is one of the few companies that reports an efficiency that we can confirm in our lab.

In addition, the X-Finity comes with a three-year warranty out of the box which can be upgraded to a lifetime warranty if you're willing to give them your name and address. There's more to a product than its technical side, and Ultra does a better job than most selling a product that looks cool (if you're into that), and backing it up with a warranty. Then there is price: Using the SPCR/Pricegrabber shopping engine, the typical lowest price we found was US$70, which is pretty low for a 500W PSU. All in all, we can't recommend the X-Finity as a quiet power supply. But, if you're willing to settle for "good enough" rather than "top-of-the-line" and you like the looks or you would feel safer in the hands of a lifetime warranty, the X-Finity could be for you.

I saw nowhere in that article did they call ULTRA apiece of crap...
I also saw nowhere in that article did they say the ULTRA would kill your computer...
For all the unsubstantiated allegations ULTRA seems to still be in buisness....hmmm

 

[phistyle]

seasonic s12 all the way.... high efficiency, quiet and powerful...i just got a seasonic s12 600w rev.2 off of ebay for 107.00 shipped brand new

 

[igowerf]

I just built a brand new rig a month ago and I found that getting a couple parts off the FS/FT forum here usually lets me save a few bucks. I got an x2 4200+ from a forum member for $260 USD shipped! It runs beautifully although I haven't tried for an overclock.

 

[Bobthelost]

Originally posted by: mionescuIt's to show that while one site praises a product, another can pass it off as an "average" performer. Don't be so naive to think that certain reviewers are "told" to give good recommendations to the reviewed product while others are "honest". Everyone can be bought, and a bad review is as easily bought as a good one. Having said that, if my Ultra X2 550 ever breaks down under an SLI configuration, I'll come on this forum and kiss your e-ass.

They aren't told anything, but they know that if they give the producat a glowing review then they will get more free parts to play with and possibly sell on. Those reviews you linked to were crap, 2nd rate or worse. Did you even read them? Badly spelt, sloppy procedures, unimpressive testing situations and unrealistic/unjustified comments.

You're rather stupid, naieve doesn't cover it, if you think that all review sites will give you an objective take on things, and you're a complete idiot if you can't see the benifits to a reviewer giving an excessivly positive review of a product.

Fine, buy it. The only person who's stuck up for ultra on this thread is Yoda, who i dare say will agree that they aren't one of the top brands, a step up from generic but...

 

[Ultralight]

Bobthelost, my friend, I've seen you give many people here fine advice. This is one of those times when I think it is time to cut and run. Nice try though...

 

[Bobthelost]

Originally posted by: Ultralight
Bobthelost, my friend, I've seen you give many people here fine advice. This is one of those times when I think it is time to cut and run. Nice try though...

Yeah, leading horse to water etc.

*shuts up on topic*

 

[mionescu]

Bob, cut the act. Even when I was browsing the forums, I saw your signature and thought you were full of ******. You try to pass yourself off as a "willing to learn" individual, but you're just an arrogant prick once someone doesn't agree with you. You can't copy and paste correctly, you don't know what you're talking about, and once someone aggrivates you by calling you naive (which you are), you start throwing out hurtful ( :roll: ) words like stupid. Honestly though, I'm not going to bother even browsing this forum anymore. Once I saw someone say DFI sucks, I called it quits for good. Some of you have no idea how to build a hardcore machine. Stick to Dell. Peace.