Building first new rig in 6 years, need some advice

nedney · Mar 22, 2013

Hello everyone, hope the world of PC hardware has been treating you well. I've been out of the game since 2007 when I built my current rig, and it's starting to come to the end of its life so I'm looking to build a new one. Problem is, I'm so out of date on anything current that I will have to rely on the generous knowledge of others to help me grope my way through the dark.

Regarding the rig I'm hoping to build, I'd like to stay under $1000 if possible, but I still want it to have enough power to play, say, Bioshock Infinite. I have a monitor I'm going to be keeping (a still-fine Dell LCD) and a newly-acquired set of Klipsch 2.1 speakers, and I tentatively plan to keep my current GPU, but aside from that I'm looking to start fresh. So here are some questions I hope you all can answer:

-I'm still using Windows XP. Is it worth it to move to 7 (or 8, for that matter)? Should I invest in 64-bit anything?

-As I said, I'm probably going to keep my current GPU, an nVidia GeForce GT 440. Is that card so horribly obsolete as to be a bad idea to keep it? If so, what would you recommend as a capable but affordable mid-range card?

-I have legitimately zero knowledge of the current CPU market. My current chip is an Intel Core 2 Duo e6600 clocked to 2.7Ghz. Should I stick with Intel, or is AMD doing anything noteworthy? Tied into the OS questions above, should I go with 64-bit (or, ftm, is that pretty much the standard now?)? Any help and advice at all here is highly appreciated.

-I'm definitely looking to go Small Formfactor, so if anyone has insights into SFF cases and/or a good Micro-ATX motherboard, that would be most helpful.

-Lastly, the odds and ends: are there any notable developments for hard drives (currently using 10k RPM Raptor but it's definitely on its last legs), DVD drives (new burning tech, maybe? my rig now takes forever to burn DVDs), RAM (side note: I splurged a Best Buy gift-card on 8 GB worth of RAM not knowing that XP could only use 4 GB, so there's that :/ ), or anything else I've forgotten?

The most important thing to me is good value, getting the most performance bang for my buck that I can. If anyone has anything at all to add related to the above or just about the PC hardware market in general, I would be most grateful.

Thank you.

waldoh · Mar 22, 2013

Termie · Mar 22, 2013

nedney,

You've packed lots of questions into your post, so I'm not sure I can address them all here, but let me address the most critical issues:

(1) You should definitely upgrade to either Windows 7 or 8, 64-bit. In addition to allowing you to use more than 4GB of RAM (which is practically a necessity with today's games), it will also allow you to use DX11 graphics features. In fact, many new games, including Bioshock Infinite, will not even run under Windows XP!

(2) Your graphics card is not sufficient to play new games, like Bioshock Infinite or really any other modern game. Luckily, there are very affordable graphics cards that will fit into a small system, including the ~$100 HD7770, or the brand-new (as in released today!) HD7790. Plus, if you get anything from the HD7850 line or above (starting at around $160), you can get Bioshock Infinite for free. Here's a current great deal on an XFX HD7850 2GB for $160AR: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150641

(3) Technically, microATX is not "Small Form Factor". You'll need to decide whether you want to go truly SFF, which would be Mini-ITX. My gaming system is microATX-based, built in fact on the excellent Maximus V Gene linked in the post above, and it's much smaller than a standard ATX case, as in about 3/4 the size. If you want to go smaller than that, you'll need to go with Mini-ITX.

For more insights, feel free to check out the links in my sig.

dmoney1980 · Mar 22, 2013

have to agree with Termie, your current GPU will not handle any new games at a playable framerate. The good news is you have the budget to get yourself a nice gaming rig! Out of curiosity, what resolution is your monitor? Also, what city are you in? (you may have a micro center near you, they have killer deals on CPU / motherboard combos)

here is a baseline of where I would start

case: $60-$90 depending on what form factor you choose.

CPU: $150 - $200

Motherboard: $80 - $130

GPU: $150-$200

Solid state drive: $100 - you can start with a 120gb Samsung 840 solid state drive. you can install your Windows OS there along with a few apps. this thing will destroy your 10k raptor in read and write speeds, all while sipping power and not making any noise.

Hard drive: you can use your existing raptor drive, or pick up a 1TB drive for around $80. You can install all of your games here

Optical drive: any run of the mill $20 drive will do. Unfortunetly, we have not seen any advances with optical media and honestly we probably never will.

OS: $100 windows 64 bit, 7 or 8 it's your choice

RAM: 8GB RAM kit $65

Total is $985 if you use the top prices I listed above

edit: forgot about the power supply! what make / model are you currently using?

nedney · Mar 22, 2013

Termie said:
nedney,

(3) Technically, microATX is not "Small Form Factor". You'll need to decide whether you want to go truly SFF, which would be Mini-ITX. My gaming system is microATX-based, built in fact on the excellent Maximus V Gene linked in the post above, and it's much smaller than a standard ATX case, as in about 3/4 the size. If you want to go smaller than that, you'll need to go with Mini-ITX.

Hmmm, I guess I need to be more careful with my terminology, then.

Basically I want a small-sized box, nothing monstrous. My current motherboard is an Abit F-I90HD but as far as "Small Form Factor" vs. microATX vs. Mini-ITX vs. whatever else is out there, I'm really not picky. Your system sounds about like what I'm looking for, tbh.

edit: now this thread I started over at Guru3d has convinced me to get a soundcard, and some have said I would need to go microATX to do that. Is this accurate?

Termie · Mar 22, 2013

Why do you want a sound card? Many motherboards have very good onboard sound. Because a sound card requires a free PCIe or PCI slot, you'd need to use a micro ATX motherboard and case.

nedney · Mar 22, 2013

Termie said:
Why do you want a sound card? Many motherboards have very good onboard sound. Because a sound card requires a free PCIe or PCI slot, you'd need to use a micro ATX motherboard and case.

Is there a downside to getting micro ATX? I want a soundcard because I really feel like my new Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers aren't doing all they could be for me. I mean, what you were talking about above, with your mATX rig being 3/4 the size of a standard box, would probably suit me just fine.

dmoney1980 · Mar 22, 2013

nedney said:
Is there a downside to getting micro ATX? I want a soundcard because I really feel like my new Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers aren't doing all they could be for me. I mean, what you were talking about above, with your mATX rig being 3/4 the size of a standard box, would probably suit me just fine.

If you're adamant about your sound quality, you can pony up some additional money and get a motherboard with a quality sounds card built in, like the Asus Gene V (linked below).
It's a micro ATX board so it's a smaller form factor.

The only issue here is that you are paying a lot for a motherboard with features you might not need (like overclocking or lots of SATA ports). But hey it's your money

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131830

Cerb · Mar 22, 2013

nedney said:
Is there a downside to getting micro ATX? I mean, what you were talking about above, with your mATX rig being 3/4 the size of a standard box, would probably suit me just fine.

MicroATX boards only have up to 4 expansion slots, of which most good video cards will take 2, usually, and it's rare for a MicroATX board to have 4 RAM slots.

Other than that, MicroATX is as good as full-size. The nice thing v. SFF is that you can use full-size cards, and have some internal expansion, should you need it down the road.

If you will be getting a new case, MicroATX cases can be had that are smaller than standard ATX ones. I'm fond of the Fractal Design Minis, lately.

I want a soundcard because I really feel like my new Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers aren't doing all they could be for me.

Asus Xonar DSX or DX, maybe?

I'm still using Windows XP. Is it worth it to move to 7 (or 8, for that matter)? Should I invest in 64-bit anything?

XP will only get you by, on the internet, until early next year around this time, and 64-bit-only Windows software is coming.

I have legitimately zero knowledge of the current CPU market. My current chip is an Intel Core 2 Duo e6600 clocked to 2.7Ghz. Should I stick with Intel, or is AMD doing anything noteworthy? Tied into the OS questions above, should I go with 64-bit (or, ftm, is that pretty much the standard now?)?

64-bit is standard, and has been for several years. Right now, the short version is that AMD's offerings offer good low-end value, but not enough CPU performance; Intel's Core i3 series is about the slowest you want for a white box (big vendor prices don't seem to fit the same scale as what we work with), i5 are the good values (i5-3570(K) being the general sweetspot), i7s are for if you have the budget to burn, and Xeon E3s are like the i7s, but with no overclocking, and a bit cheaper.

Lastly, the odds and ends: are there any notable developments for hard drives

SSDs, and higher density. Te typical thing to do today is have an SSD OS drive, and big HDD data drive, or SSD+HDD, with the SSD as a cache drive.

DVD drives (new burning tech, maybe? my rig now takes forever to burn DVDs)

BD burners are coming down in price, and there's not too much difference between most DVD drives. The exception to that rule would be that the Asus DRW-24B1ST is an all-around excellent CD and DVD ripper, if that's important to you.

Sleepingforest · Mar 22, 2013

If you really want good audio, it's better to get a USB DAC/amp. Any built in motherboard sound and even dedicated sound cards are guaranteed to receive more interference than a USB DAC because of its close exposure to other signals. That'll also let you go mITX.

There's a few things that you must make sure of before you upgrade any sound solution. First, check the entire system over: you have a $100-150 set of reasonably good speakers. But do you have music files that allow the speakers to do their job (Amazon's A0 compression, loseless, like ALAC or FLAC, or at least 328 kbps MP3)? If you don't have good music files, those should be a priority over anything else.

Then: Listen to your speakers now. Do the lows sound out clearly and punch, or bloated and muddy? Do the highs seem sparkly or shrill? Does the middle come out clearly, or does it burying the rest? If you can't tell AFTER making sure you have good audio files, it's probably not worthwhile to get an extra sound anything (DAC or sound card).

As for your GPU: yes, it's horridly outdated, and barely performs better than AMD's integrated graphics. Pretty much any $100 or stronger GPU will crush it.

cantholdanymore · Mar 22, 2013

nedney said:
My current motherboard is an Abit F-I90HD

Dude, on-board audio is not what it used to be. The board linked above have great audio for your 2.1 speakers.

nedney · Mar 22, 2013

dmoney1980 said:
If you're adamant about your sound quality, you can pony up some additional money and get a motherboard with a quality sounds card built in, like the Asus Gene V (linked below).
It's a micro ATX board so it's a smaller form factor.

The only issue here is that you are paying a lot for a motherboard with features you might not need (like overclocking or lots of SATA ports). But hey it's your money

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131830

Sleepingforest said:
If you can't tell AFTER making sure you have good audio files, it's probably not worthwhile to get an extra sound anything (DAC or sound card).

cantholdanymore said:
Dude, on-board audio is not what it used to be. The board linked above have great audio for your 2.1 speakers.

Yeeeaaahh you're all making excellent points, maybe I don't need a soundcard. I'm definitely *not* adamant about my sound quality, I am certainly no audiophile and don't have any music coded with HQ codecs. If a board such as the Gene V can deliver good enough sound quality and have other advantages also (affordability and practicality, primarily) then I'm happy to stay with an on-board solution.

So it appears the consensus is the MicroATX Asus Gene V. Any dissenters want to argue for something else?

Sleepingforest · Mar 22, 2013

I'll argue for a $100 motherboard plus a USB DAC if necessary. In a SFF box, you can't really afford the extra heat from overclocking (unless it's the Bitfenix Prodigy, which is unusually large). So get a basic $100 motherboard, and if your speakers still sound unclear, muddy, or suboptimal, grab a $75 USB DAC/amp combo like the Fiio E10 for $76 off Amazon. Here's a sample build, not including the DAC/amp:
PCPartPicker part list

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($203.79 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus P8H77-I Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard ($93.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Pareema 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($54.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($64.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Sandisk Ultra Plus 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 650 Ti 1GB Video Card ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case ($79.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Silverstone Strider Essential 600W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($66.30 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $894.01
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-22 21:31 EDT-0400)

Optionally: wait for the release of the Radeon 7790 graphics card, which should be better than the GTX 650ti for about $20 more.

bononos · Mar 22, 2013

nedney said:
Yeeeaaahh you're all making excellent points, maybe I don't need a soundcard. I'm definitely *not* adamant about my sound quality, I am certainly no audiophile and don't have any music coded with HQ codecs. If a board such as the Gene V can deliver good enough sound quality and have other advantages also (affordability and practicality, primarily) then I'm happy to stay with an on-board solution.

So it appears the consensus is the MicroATX Asus Gene V. Any dissenters want to argue for something else?

The downside of matx is that the range of choices are alot smaller. You could get a decent atx sized mb at around half the prices of the GeneV and use the difference for a Xonar soundcard.

Onboard audio has made great leaps and for most users including myself, the onboard realtek solutions are more than enough.

nedney · Mar 22, 2013

bononos said:
The downside of matx is that the range of choices are alot smaller.

Are there more options for Mini-ITX? A smaller form factor really is a must for me, so reggae ATX is a no go.

Sleepingforest · Mar 22, 2013

nedney said:
Are there more options for Mini-ITX? A smaller form factor really is a must for me, so reggae ATX is a no go.

If you accept fewer RAM slots, possibly no built-in DVD burner (must go external), and only a single PCIe slot (thus forcing you to go with an external DAC/amp), then yes, you can go mITX. Look at my build a few posts ago to get an idea of what is possible.

Termie · Mar 22, 2013

nedney said:
Are there more options for Mini-ITX? A smaller form factor really is a must for me, so reggae ATX is a no go.

There are plenty of other micro ATX options, the Maximus V Gene happens to be one of the higher end models. The one thing you really ought to get though is a Z77 board. That's the performance chipset. They start around $100.

Unless you want a shoebox-sized computer, micro ATX should be small enough.

Torn Mind · Mar 22, 2013

The max size of micro ATX boards are 9.6 x 9.6 inches(some boards are less wide). Hence, the case length for advertised Micro ATX cases are about just a bit over 1 ft. ATX motherboards have the same board width, but are longer. Some Micro ATX boards can be really small and be only slightly larger than mini-ITX, but these things are rare and advertised Micro ATX cases must be able to accommodate the max micro ATX board size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroATX

nedney · Mar 23, 2013

Sleepingforest said:
If you accept fewer RAM slots, possibly no built-in DVD burner (must go external), and only a single PCIe slot (thus forcing you to go with an external DAC/amp), then yes, you can go mITX. Look at my build a few posts ago to get an idea of what is possible.

Yeah, all that combined is probably a dealbreaker. So microATX it is.

Termie said:
There are plenty of other micro ATX options, the Maximus V Gene happens to be one of the higher end models. The one thing you really ought to get though is a Z77 board. That's the performance chipset. They start around $100.

Unless you want a shoebox-sized computer, micro ATX should be small enough.

I don't need a shoebox-sized computer, I can say that for sure. The V Gene seems to be what a lot of people are recommending, but I can't claim familiarity with 'Z77.' Is there a board of that nature you can recommend? I've also seen the M5A88-M EVO recommended for a mATX board.

I'm also wondering about a good microATX case. I've seen recommendations here and elsewhere for Bitfenix and Fractal, but I believe those are MiniITX, and I don't think I've seen anyone throw out any mATX case recommendations. Anyone got any?

Termie · Mar 23, 2013

nedney said:
Yeah, all that combined is probably a dealbreaker. So microATX it is.

I don't need a shoebox-sized computer, I can say that for sure. The V Gene seems to be what a lot of people are recommending, but I can't claim familiarity with 'Z77.' Is there a board of that nature you can recommend? I've also seen the M5A88-M EVO recommended for a mATX board.

I'm also wondering about a good microATX case. I've seen recommendations here and elsewhere for Bitfenix and Fractal, but I believe those are MiniITX, and I don't think I've seen anyone throw out any mATX case recommendations. Anyone got any?

Excellent questions. Let me take them one-by-one:

(1) The Maximus V Gene is just about the highest-end micro ATX motherboard available. It includes such features as full Crossfire/SLI support, Intel Gigabit Ethernet, a mSATA port for matchbook-sized mSATA SSDs, upgraded audio, and extreme overclocking support.

(2) Z77 refers to the Intel chipset being used. There are several Intel chipsets for each generation of CPUs. The current generation of CPUs is called "Ivy Bridge," and includes everything from $60 Pentiums to the $300 i7-3770k. The compatible Intel chipsets for these CPUs are H77, B75, Z75, and Z77. As you might imagine, each offers slightly more features than the last, and Z77 has them all, most importantly to enthusiasts the ability to overclock using the quad-core Intel CPUs ending in the letter "k" - these are the 3570k and 3770k.

(3) The Asus M5A88-M EVO is indeed a micro ATX motherboard, but it uses an AMD 880G chipset. It will only support AMD CPUs using an AM3+ socket configuration. For your purposes, I'd just put that suggestion aside for now. I don't think an AMD CPU is your best option, and it's actually a discontinued product anyway. We can return to AMD and the "FX" line of CPUs later if you decide your budget is very constrained - otherwise, the Intel i5-3570k is really the CPU you should be aiming for.

(4) You are correct - no one has suggested a micro ATX case yet! The catch here is that many micro ATX (mATX) cases are actually almost exactly the same size as full ATX cases. That's not what you want. I can strongly recommend the Silverstone Temjin TJ08B-E: http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Te...series+tj08b-e

At around $100, it's a real marvel of efficiency. Here's my review of the case: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2257270

As for less expensive suggestions that will still actually provide a more compact system, this Rosewill Line-M is a great choice at $55: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147166

Here's a review of it on Anandtech: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6798/rosewill-line-m-case-review-wherefore-art-thou-microatx

Because that case has less space for hiding cables, it will be far less elegant than the Silverstone case once completed, but it is a high-quality case otherwise, and it's one of the reasons it's actually even smaller than the Silverstone. It's also a little more straightforward to build with, in part because you are just letting all those cables hang out rather than putting each component into a separate compartment with cables tucked away.

nedney · Mar 23, 2013

Termie said:
Excellent questions. Let me take them one-by-one:

(1) The Maximus V Gene is just about the highest-end micro ATX motherboard available. It includes such features as full Crossfire/SLI support, Intel Gigabit Ethernet, a mSATA port for matchbook-sized mSATA SSDs, upgraded audio, and extreme overclocking support.

(2) Z77 refers to the Intel chipset being used. There are several Intel chipsets for each generation of CPUs. The current generation of CPUs is called "Ivy Bridge," and includes everything from $60 Pentiums to the $300 i7-3770k. The compatible Intel chipsets for these CPUs are H77, B75, Z75, and Z77. As you might imagine, each offers slightly more features than the last, and Z77 has them all, most importantly to enthusiasts the ability to overclock using the quad-core Intel CPUs ending in the letter "k" - these are the 3570k and 3770k.

(3) The Asus M5A88-M EVO is indeed a micro ATX motherboard, but it uses an AMD 880G chipset. It will only support AMD CPUs using an AM3+ socket configuration. For your purposes, I'd just put that suggestion aside for now. I don't think an AMD CPU is your best option, and it's actually a discontinued product anyway. We can return to AMD and the "FX" line of CPUs later if you decide your budget is very constrained - otherwise, the Intel i5-3570k is really the CPU you should be aiming for.

(4) You are correct - no one has suggested a micro ATX case yet! The catch here is that many micro ATX (mATX) cases are actually almost exactly the same size as full ATX cases. That's not what you want. I can strongly recommend the Silverstone Temjin TJ08B-E: http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Te...series+tj08b-e

At around $100, it's a real marvel of efficiency. Here's my review of the case: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2257270

As for less expensive suggestions that will still actually provide a more compact system, this Rosewill Line-M is a great choice at $55: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811147166

Here's a review of it on Anandtech: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6798/rosewill-line-m-case-review-wherefore-art-thou-microatx

Because that case has less space for hiding cables, it will be far less elegant than the Silverstone case once completed, but it is a high-quality case otherwise, and it's one of the reasons it's actually even smaller than the Silverstone. It's also a little more straightforward to build with, in part because you are just letting all those cables hang out rather than putting each component into a separate compartment with cables tucked away.

Termie, just want to say, I can't thank you enough for all the help you're giving me. This has been very informative, and I really appreciate you breaking down these things for me. And thanks to everyone else who's posted here as well, you all are the reason I can even attempt to do this at this point in my life, 8 years after stopping my Maximum PC subscription.

Some follow-up questions:

As you said, the Maximus V Gene is as high-end as I could go for an mATX board. And if that's the best option for price vs. performance/reliability/features, then I'll go with that. However, I don't really see myself needing the ability to do 'extreme overclocking'. My current rig is clocked up to 2.7Ghz from 2.4, so I'm not some kind of flops-hungry madman

. If there were any less expensive options that still had those three metrics above, I would consider those with the idea that I could put that money towards the GPU. But if the V Gene is just head-and-shoulders above anything else, then I'm comfortable going with it.

Re: the CPU, seems everyone and their mother is telling me to go with the 3570k. I've gotten at least two opinions on just about everything except for this, so I guess that's a done deal.

Now, regarding cases: I see the suggestions you've given and I'm sure those are excellent options, but as you pointed out, cases that "are actually almost exactly the same size as full ATX cases" are not what I'm looking for, and to me, those options just seem like slightly shorter versions of a full-size ATX box. I'm looking for something sized along the lines of the Silverstone Tek SG02B-F or the Antec NSK-1380 (my current rig is an Ultra ULT33117 MicroFly MicroATX). Of course, the components I'm going to be putting into it can't run on just a 350W PSU, so there's that to consider as well. But do you have any solid mATX case suggestions that are similarly sized to these?

Edit: so now I'm realizing I might have confused things by saying I "don't need a shoebox-sized computer". I guess that depends on your definition of a shoebox

. But the cases I linked are definitely closer to what I'm looking for.

Termie · Mar 23, 2013

nedney said:
Termie, just want to say, I can't thank you enough for all the help you're giving me. This has been very informative, and I really appreciate you breaking down these things for me. And thanks to everyone else who's posted here as well, you all are the reason I can even attempt to do this at this point in my life, 8 years after stopping my Maximum PC subscription.

Some follow-up questions:

...If there were any less expensive options that still had those three metrics above, I would consider those with the idea that I could put that money towards the GPU. But if the V Gene is just head-and-shoulders above anything else, then I'm comfortable going with it.

...

Now, regarding cases: I see the suggestions you've given and I'm sure those are excellent options, but as you pointed out, cases that "are actually almost exactly the same size as full ATX cases" are not what I'm looking for, and to me, those options just seem like slightly shorter versions of a full-size ATX box. I'm looking for something sized along the lines of the Silverstone Tek SG02B-F or the Antec NSK-1380 (my current rig is an Ultra ULT33117 MicroFly MicroATX). Of course, the components I'm going to be putting into it can't run on just a 350W PSU, so there's that to consider as well. But do you have any solid mATX case suggestions that are similarly sized to these?

Edit: so now I'm realizing I might have confused things by saying I "don't need a shoebox-sized computer". I guess that depends on your definition of a shoebox . But the cases I linked are definitely closer to what I'm looking for.

The shape of those mATX is a bit deceptive. Those cases actually are nearly as large as the Rosewill Line-M. In fact, they are wider, just as deep, and only smaller in the height dimension, which for many people is the least critical. It all depends where you are trying to fit it. And you are correct, the 350w power supply is not adequate to support a 3570k and HD7950 together. Also, due to the power supply mounting configuration, they will limit your CPU overclocking to a certain degree, because they do not allow for the use of tower-style air coolers. If you just want to use the stock Intel cooler, they'll work fine. Of the two, I'd pick the Silverstone.

As for mATX motherboards at a lower price-point, I've linked a comparison of 3 below that are all about $110:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...24%24%24%24%24

These motherboards have slightly different Ethernet and audio chipsets, and none are quite the equal of what's on the Maximus V Gene, but they are all quite functional. The Asus board linked here does not support Crossfire at full speed, and a few other bells and whistles are missing from each. Overall, though, for price/performance, they'll all actually beat the Maximus V Gene. I think I'd go for the MSI personally in that price bracket.

nedney · Mar 23, 2013

Termie said:
The shape of those mATX is a bit deceptive. Those cases actually are nearly as large as the Rosewill Line-M. In fact, they are wider, just as deep, and only smaller in the height dimension, which for many people is the least critical. It all depends where you are trying to fit it. And you are correct, the 350w power supply is not adequate to support a 3570k and HD7950 together. Also, due to the power supply mounting configuration, they will limit your CPU overclocking to a certain degree, because they do not allow for the use of tower-style air coolers. If you just want to use the stock Intel cooler, they'll work fine. Of the two, I'd pick the Silverstone.

As for mATX motherboards at a lower price-point, I've linked a comparison of 3 below that are all about $110:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...24%24%24%24%24

These motherboards have slightly different Ethernet and audio chipsets, and none are quite the equal of what's on the Maximus V Gene, but they are all quite functional. The Asus board linked here does not support Crossfire at full speed, and a few other bells and whistles are missing from each. Overall, though, for price/performance, they'll all actually beat the Maximus V Gene. I think I'd go for the MSI personally in that price bracket.

Excellent, that's definitely more in line with what I'm looking for in a motherboard.

For case size, I actually am one of those who are most concerned about the height dimension. I have been perfectly happy with the size of my Ultra MicroFly and would be after something similar. Those cases I linked weren't ones I was actively considering, just using as an example of the size I want.

Regarding power supply, I was planning to stick with my current unit, an OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W. I should be fine to do that, right?

Also, for a GPU I think I'm gonna go with the XFX FX-785A-CNL4 Radeon HD 7850. It seems like just the right amount of money to spend for good performance, and not having to pay for Bioshock Infinite (and, bonus, Tomb Raider) pretty much sells me.

edit: so here's what I've got as a preliminary build:

The above comes to $687.06, then I would add the 7850 for $180 (plus Bioshock Inf & Tomb Raider).

So what, besides the enclosure, am I missing?

Termie · Mar 23, 2013

The XFX Core series is a value series, with downgraded cooling systems. They'll work just fine at stock speeds, and that price is unbeatable. Just thought you should know, in case you are interested in gpu overclocking.

If there are other mATX cases you find that look interesting, let us know. That style of case was pioneered by Shuttle, makers of barebones systems. It's definitely an interesting shape, and works well on a desk.

nedney · Mar 23, 2013

Termie said:
The XFX Core series is a value series, with downgraded cooling systems. They'll work just fine at stock speeds, and that price is unbeatable. Just thought you should know, in case you are interested in gpu overclocking.

If there are other mATX cases you find that look interesting, let us know. That style of case was pioneered by Shuttle, makers of barebones systems. It's definitely an interesting shape, and works well on a desk.

Yeah I'm not too concerned about GPU overclocking. If it runs Bioshock Inf smoothly, I'm satisfied.

Building first new rig in 6 years, need some advice

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