Building a home theater for family

[TastesLikeChicken]

My wife's aunt/uncle were looking for a home theater system and we got into a conversation about it. They thought a decent home theater would cost them 10 to 20 grand installed. To spare all the small talk I ended up telling them that I would quote them three price levels for a decent system: $3K, $4K, and $5K. I also included a "pie-in-the-sky quote that went to $20K. (The Uncle started to ask me about the pie-in-the sky-system because of the 65" Sharp Aquos that was included. I interrupted and told him that it was a 10 grand TV. He replies "OK, that answered my question." )

They called me up tonight and decided on the $5K system. So here's what I'm putting together for them:

TV - Olevia 255TFHD (55" 1080p LCD)
Surround Sound System:
Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR705
Speakers - Infinity TSS-800 CHR
HD-DVD Player - Toshiba HD-A35
Universal Remote - Harmony 890 Pro w/ Logitech RF/IR extender
Media Extender - D-Link DSM-520
Mounts (TV & Speakers), Wires, and Cables

The RF/IR extender is being used because they want to hide the components in an existing cabinet with wooden doors. The D-Link media extender is so the aunt can display pictures from her laptop on the TV.

I've priced this out and I'm still making some decent coin while trying to provide a family member with a respectable system. Any sugestions for improvements?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

How much does that all cost? $4000-ish?

How did they make their decision on what they actually wanted?
(Have they looked at this display vs. other ones and decided it's the one they want?... have they heard the audio system and liked the way it sounded?)

Do they need an audio system that compact?


EDIT:
I just looked up the Infinity TSS-800 CHR set very briefly and cnet's review was the first thing that popped up for me.

They gave it a 6.3/10
http://www.cnet.com.au/homethe...25973,339272682,00.htm

Not that I think Cnet is a great place to get audio reviews, but I'd be a bit worried about using that in a "$5k" HT system.
Seems like the subwoofer is an especially weak point and the satellites have much smaller drivers than I'd like to see in a system. How big is their room?

Looks like that 5.1 set is around $800-ish?

If the speakers need to stay compact, there are some really good 5.1 systems out there for the same ballpark that I'd be much more confident in recommending.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm
http://www.hsuresearch.com/packages.html
etc.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
How much does that all cost? $4000-ish?

How did they make their decision on what they actually wanted?
(Have they looked at this display vs. other ones and decided it's the one they want?... have they heard the audio system and liked the way it sounded?)

Do they need an audio system that compact?


EDIT:
I just looked up the Infinity TSS-800 CHR set very briefly and cnet's review was the first thing that popped up for me.

They gave it a 6.3/10
http://www.cnet.com.au/homethe...25973,339272682,00.htm

Not that I think Cnet is a great place to get audio reviews, but I'd be a bit worried about using that in a "$5k" HT system.
Seems like the subwoofer is an especially weak point and the satellites have much smaller drivers than I'd like to see in a system. How big is their room?

Looks like that 5.1 set is around $800-ish?

If the speakers need to stay compact, there are some really good 5.1 systems out there for the same ballpark that I'd be much more confident in recommending.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm
http://www.hsuresearch.com/packages.html
etc.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to look into the Performance 2 Series of the HSU speakers as a potential substitute. Unfortunately the SVS are just a bit too pricey. Too bad the HSU Performance 3 are discontinued too.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
How much does that all cost? $4000-ish?

How did they make their decision on what they actually wanted?
(Have they looked at this display vs. other ones and decided it's the one they want?... have they heard the audio system and liked the way it sounded?)

Do they need an audio system that compact?


EDIT:
I just looked up the Infinity TSS-800 CHR set very briefly and cnet's review was the first thing that popped up for me.

They gave it a 6.3/10
http://www.cnet.com.au/homethe...25973,339272682,00.htm

Not that I think Cnet is a great place to get audio reviews, but I'd be a bit worried about using that in a "$5k" HT system.
Seems like the subwoofer is an especially weak point and the satellites have much smaller drivers than I'd like to see in a system. How big is their room?

Looks like that 5.1 set is around $800-ish?

If the speakers need to stay compact, there are some really good 5.1 systems out there for the same ballpark that I'd be much more confident in recommending.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm
http://www.hsuresearch.com/packages.html
etc.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to look into the Performance 2 Series of the HSU speakers as a potential substitute. Unfortunately the SVS are just a bit too pricey. Too bad the HSU Performance 3 are discontinued too.

I meant the enthusiast systems as the performance systems are essentially going to be a Bose alternative but there's still a lot to be desired that can be better accomplished by larger speakers.

Just to question the "bit too pricey" comment... wasn't their original budget $10k-$20k? Are they limited to $4k total now or something?
If they have the means to spend more and want a really great system, there's a huge difference between the kind of 5.1 audio systems you're thinking about for ~$800 and one that would cost more but could still be worked into a $5k budget.

EDIT: maybe before you really get to far into this, you should go out with them to some places that sell AV stuff and audition some stuff. Like listen to some $200 speakers up to some that cost a couple thousand and have them experience what the difference is before deciding what pricepoint is right for them if they have the means to put together a really nice system if they think it's worth it.

 

[jpeyton]

Let's see:

Pioneer KURO 50" - $2250

Onkyo TX-SR605 - $395

Toshiba HD-A35 - $250

Aperion Audio Intimus 532 Cinema - $1340 + Free Wiring Kit

Total: $4235
Remaining (For Cables/Remotes/Etc.): $765

Just a few observations:

True HT enthusiasts advocate spending as much on audio as is spent on video (or as close to it as possible). Aperion gets great reviews (you can find links on their website) and they offer a truly free home trial (they pay shipping both ways if you're not satisfied).

The KURO will kick the shit out of the Olevia. Also, I would be VERY cautious about recommending a lower-tier TV manufacturer to someone like a relative; Pioneer is an industry leader in both picture quality and customer service...Olevia is not. 720p vs. 1080p doesn't matter.

Consider getting a HD-A30 or HD-A3 and adding a Blu-Ray player; they will undoubtedly run into titles they want to watch on Blu-Ray, since Disney/Fox/Sony/Warner are all Blu-Ray exclusive.

 

[wetech]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Let's see:

Pioneer KURO 50" - $2250

Onkyo TX-SR605 - $395

Toshiba HD-A35 - $250

Aperion Audio Intimus 532 Cinema - $1340 + Free Wiring Kit

Total: $4235
Remaining (For Cables/Remotes/Etc.): $765

Just a few observations:

True HT enthusiasts advocate spending as much on audio as is spent on video (or as close to it as possible). Aperion gets great reviews (you can find links on their website) and they offer a truly free home trial (they pay shipping both ways if you're not satisfied).

The KURO will kick the shit out of the Olevia. Also, I would be VERY cautious about recommending a lower-tier TV manufacturer to someone like a relative; Pioneer is an industry leader in both picture quality and customer service...Olevia is not. 720p vs. 1080p doesn't matter.

Consider getting a HD-A30 or HD-A3 and adding a Blu-Ray player; they will undoubtedly run into titles they want to watch on Blu-Ray, since Disney/Fox/Sony/Warner are all Blu-Ray exclusive.

I have the Aperion speakers listed above (except I have the larger L/R speakers as the surrounds as well), and I absolutely love them.

 

[Wuzup101]

So what exactly do you mean by "home theater." Is this going to be in a dedicated, light-controlled room? Is this setup going to be used for standard run of the mill TV watching? What is the seating distance and seating arrangement?

If this is a dedicated theater room and perfectly light controlled, I see no reason that you should be using a second tier LCD as the primary display. You'd be much better off buying a 720p plasma (EG: kuro) or even a 1080p plasma (from Panny or Samsung) if you want direct view in your budget. However, you should also consider the use of a front projector as your primary display (there are quite a few nice 720p and a few 1080p projectors that wouldn't break the bank). These would allow you to get a more theater like experience (due to a more "correct" screen size). LCDs definitely have their place (I have a samsung 4065F in my bedroom). However, I generally would stay away from them for a theater... especially an Olivia... at least go with a Sony S or W series or a samsung 61/65F at the minimum.

As far as your audio gear is concerned, the 705 is a nice receiver and will be up to the task. However, I'm a bit perplexed as to your audio choices. Is there a reason that you are going for "minimalist" speakers? I'm just googled the prices and Vanns has them for $799. I wouldn't plan on paying anywhere near that much for them (maybe $300... certainly not $800). You would be much better off picking up a matched set of fronts/center for $500/600ish and just use bookshelves for the rears. Add a decent sub and you are set to go. Hell, for $300 you can get a basic fluance 5 piece set and then just add a sub (http://www.fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html). That would give you about $500 for a sub if you wanted to stay with the same budget, and I severely doubt that the infinity kit will stand up to the fluance kit with a reasonable sub.

As far as HD media players are concerned, I would suggest you present them with the facts of the whole format war. Tell them who is putting out what and let them decide. If they want to be format neutral, consider going with a HD-A3 instead of the A35 to save some cash. The A3 is a very viable option and has good upscaling. Get it on sale, and even if HD-DVD dies (sadly it probably will - because I'm a fan... and life shits on me), you'll have a good up converting DVD player. Use the extra cash on a BR player. Also remind them that they will have to actually get media. Does the local blockbuster or whatnot rent HD-DVD and BR? Both the one around my home and the one around my apartment at school only rent BR. You can get both via mail in service from BB or Netflix. However... if they don't want to do mail in, it might be easier for them to pick a certain format.

How much does a media extender cost? Google turned up several prices all at just over $200. A PS3 can be used as a media extender. Granted, it might not be the ideal solution for them. However, it's a viable option... did I mention that they have BR players in them?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
How much does that all cost? $4000-ish?

How did they make their decision on what they actually wanted?
(Have they looked at this display vs. other ones and decided it's the one they want?... have they heard the audio system and liked the way it sounded?)

Do they need an audio system that compact?


EDIT:
I just looked up the Infinity TSS-800 CHR set very briefly and cnet's review was the first thing that popped up for me.

They gave it a 6.3/10
http://www.cnet.com.au/homethe...25973,339272682,00.htm

Not that I think Cnet is a great place to get audio reviews, but I'd be a bit worried about using that in a "$5k" HT system.
Seems like the subwoofer is an especially weak point and the satellites have much smaller drivers than I'd like to see in a system. How big is their room?

Looks like that 5.1 set is around $800-ish?

If the speakers need to stay compact, there are some really good 5.1 systems out there for the same ballpark that I'd be much more confident in recommending.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm
http://www.hsuresearch.com/packages.html
etc.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to look into the Performance 2 Series of the HSU speakers as a potential substitute. Unfortunately the SVS are just a bit too pricey. Too bad the HSU Performance 3 are discontinued too.

I meant the enthusiast systems as the performance systems are essentially going to be a Bose alternative but there's still a lot to be desired that can be better accomplished by larger speakers.

Just to question the "bit too pricey" comment... wasn't their original budget $10k-$20k? Are they limited to $4k total now or something?
If they have the means to spend more and want a really great system, there's a huge difference between the kind of 5.1 audio systems you're thinking about for ~$800 and one that would cost more but could still be worked into a $5k budget.

EDIT: maybe before you really get to far into this, you should go out with them to some places that sell AV stuff and audition some stuff. Like listen to some $200 speakers up to some that cost a couple thousand and have them experience what the difference is before deciding what pricepoint is right for them if they have the means to put together a really nice system if they think it's worth it.

I guess I need to explain that these folks aren't exactly discerning HT enthusiasts nor audiophiles. I'm not sure they've ever watched a movie in an HT setup. Currently they probably own 3 DVDs and their A/V experience is watching an old 35" JVC SD CRT. Their greatest concerns aren't sound or picture quality either, but aesthetics (how the system will impact the room and making sure the A/V components are out of sight), having the largest screen possible, and a remote that allows even A/V neophytes to operate the system. For the TV they are of the mindset that bigger is better and I doubt they'd even notice the PQ difference between the display of an Aquos and an Olevia. For the speakers...the smaller and less obtrusive, the better. A little bit of bass punch will suit them fine. They aren't really looking for a chest thumping experience or specific tonal characteristics. If I even tried to begin to explain those concepts to them their eyes would undoubtedly glaze over.

Right now the budget is $5K. Of that I plan to make about $600 because I'll be spending a couple or a few days running wires through walls and ceilings and reconfiguring their electrical wiring to accomodate their component placement wishes. This system will be going in their living room. Because of the way the room is built running those wires is not going to be an easy process They want the receiver, HD-DVD player, et al to be hidden away in an existing cabinet out of sight which is why the RF extender is an absolute must have. The aunt wants to be able to show pictures from her laptop on the TV as well, which is why I've included the D-Link media extender.

If there is a set of 5.1 speakers in a small form factor that will sound better than the Infinities and run @ $800 for the package I'd be glad to consider them. Anything above that figure begins to eat into my profit though and a $200 or $300 dollar difference makes a serious dent.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

What about giving them the option to spend that much more on a better system rather than eating into your personal pay for the setup costs?
(Will having a total of $5300 for a better sound system be reasonable to them?)
If this was a dedicated room rather than the livingroom I would suggest looking into front projection as the best screen size to $ ratio.

Even if they're not looking for specific tonal characteristics, some speakers can have a fatiguing sound after listening them to a while or a weak center channel may make dialog difficult to understand.
I have a whole section of what I called "Bose Alternatives" in section 2.5 of my General HT Audio thread that could give you some options to consider.

What color is the room? You might be able to get away with larger speakers if they'll blend better with the decor. In-wall speakers would be a great way to get the system out of sight, but I'm not sure if you can get a decent setup for the price you're shooting for (it would also be a lot more work to get it installed well).

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Wuzup101
So what exactly do you mean by "home theater." Is this going to be in a dedicated, light-controlled room? Is this setup going to be used for standard run of the mill TV watching? What is the seating distance and seating arrangement?

If this is a dedicated theater room and perfectly light controlled, I see no reason that you should be using a second tier LCD as the primary display. You'd be much better off buying a 720p plasma (EG: kuro) or even a 1080p plasma (from Panny or Samsung) if you want direct view in your budget. However, you should also consider the use of a front projector as your primary display (there are quite a few nice 720p and a few 1080p projectors that wouldn't break the bank). These would allow you to get a more theater like experience (due to a more "correct" screen size). LCDs definitely have their place (I have a samsung 4065F in my bedroom). However, I generally would stay away from them for a theater... especially an Olivia... at least go with a Sony S or W series or a samsung 61/65F at the minimum.

As far as your audio gear is concerned, the 705 is a nice receiver and will be up to the task. However, I'm a bit perplexed as to your audio choices. Is there a reason that you are going for "minimalist" speakers? I'm just googled the prices and Vanns has them for $799. I wouldn't plan on paying anywhere near that much for them (maybe $300... certainly not $800). You would be much better off picking up a matched set of fronts/center for $500/600ish and just use bookshelves for the rears. Add a decent sub and you are set to go. Hell, for $300 you can get a basic fluance 5 piece set and then just add a sub (http://www.fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html). That would give you about $500 for a sub if you wanted to stay with the same budget, and I severely doubt that the infinity kit will stand up to the fluance kit with a reasonable sub.

As far as HD media players are concerned, I would suggest you present them with the facts of the whole format war. Tell them who is putting out what and let them decide. If they want to be format neutral, consider going with a HD-A3 instead of the A35 to save some cash. The A3 is a very viable option and has good upscaling. Get it on sale, and even if HD-DVD dies (sadly it probably will - because I'm a fan... and life shits on me), you'll have a good up converting DVD player. Use the extra cash on a BR player. Also remind them that they will have to actually get media. Does the local blockbuster or whatnot rent HD-DVD and BR? Both the one around my home and the one around my apartment at school only rent BR. You can get both via mail in service from BB or Netflix. However... if they don't want to do mail in, it might be easier for them to pick a certain format.

How much does a media extender cost? Google turned up several prices all at just over $200. A PS3 can be used as a media extender. Granted, it might not be the ideal solution for them. However, it's a viable option... did I mention that they have BR players in them?

I actually offered them a choice between a 720p plasma or an LCD. I tried to explain to them why a plasma potentially has better PQ, but they went to Sam's over the weekend and said they thought the pictures on the LCDs "looked better." I started to explain about calibration (and lack thereof in most places) but pulled back when I realized my words were bouncing off their eardrums.

The room is not a dedicated HT room and won't be light controlled. This setup will be going into their existing living room. I talked to them about a projection system and they decided they wanted a wall-mounted flat screen instead. Considering the lack of light control in the room it's the better choice for them.

Thanks for the link to the Fluance speakers. They look like some nice speakers for the price. I'll have to ask them if floorstanding speakers will be OK but I have the feeling they would rather have small, unobtrusive wall mounts instead.

Good point about the HD-DVD. The A35 is probably more than they need and I could shift the $100+ difference elsewhere. I doubt they'll ever actually watch an HD-DVD or BD movie. The only reason I'm going with the HD-DVD is to give them that potential option, the HD-DVD player is less expensive than a BD player, and makes for a good upconverting DVD player as well. However, since you mentioned that a PS3 can be used as an extender I could combine the extender and HD-DVD player costs and substitute a PS3 instead. It would also give them the option to have PS3 games for their great-grandkids. (They are only in their 50s and already have great-grandkids. That's another story though.) That's something I'll have to ask them about.

Thanks for the input.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
What about giving them the option to spend that much more on a better system rather than eating into your personal pay for the setup costs?
(Will having a total of $5300 for a better sound system be reasonable to them?)
If this was a dedicated room rather than the livingroom I would suggest looking into front projection as the best screen size to $ ratio.

Even if they're not looking for specific tonal characteristics, some speakers can have a fatiguing sound after listening them to a while or a weak center channel may make dialog difficult to understand.
I have a whole section of what I called "Bose Alternatives" in section 2.5 of my General HT Audio thread that could give you some options to consider.

What color is the room? You might be able to get away with larger speakers if they'll blend better with the decor. In-wall speakers would be a great way to get the system out of sight, but I'm not sure if you can get a decent setup for the price you're shooting for (it would also be a lot more work to get it installed well).

In-wall speakers could be a consideration for them. The guy is a contractor and renovates houses so it wouldn't be out of the question. Though to accomplish that there'd have to be some serious reconfiguration in the living room due to restrictions with the existing wall where the TV will be mounted. With the current room layout there's only one wall where the TV can be mounted. Bay windows and built-in cabinetry already occupy the other walls and the foyer/entryway to the house is on another side, so the TV can't go there. I've already spoken with him about the possible need to build a sort of false wall in front of the existing wall where the TV would be mounted and we could allot space for in-wall speakers and an in-wall sub there.

I'll check how that option might impact the price and offer it to them tomorrow as a consideration. Knowing their penchant for aesthetics they might very well go for it.

Thanks.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I had some Fluance speakers in the past and heard some other ones of theirs as well and I wouldn't get those again. Unless you Need floorstanders for really cheap, I think you can do better. Outpost also has good deals for really budget speakers by Polk (R-series) that go on sale all the time which would allow for floorstanders for a similar budget but I would trust them more.

That said I don't think either Fluance or the Polk R-series should be what you're looking at for a $4400 HT system.

If your speaker / sub / receiver budget is set at $1450-ish, what about dropping the 705 down to a 605 and diverting $250 towards a better speaker / sub combo?

Are you cable price estimates coming from Monoprice or somewhere similar?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I had some Fluance speakers in the past and heard some other ones of theirs as well and I wouldn't get those again. Unless you Need floorstanders for really cheap, I think you can do better. Outpost also has good deals for really budget speakers by Polk (R-series) that go on sale all the time which would allow for floorstanders for a similar budget but I would trust them more.

That said I don't think either Fluance or the Polk R-series should be what you're looking at for a $4400 HT system.

If your speaker / sub / receiver budget is set at $1450-ish, what about dropping the 705 down to a 605 and diverting $250 towards a better speaker / sub combo?

Are you cable price estimates coming from Monoprice or somewhere similar?

Dropping down to the 605 is a viable option. I'm wondering if an on-wall speaker mounted setup would be acceptable to them? I just ran across this on sale at Vanns:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/serv...44400216/1197257888246

Yes, cable/wiring estimates are based on Monoprice.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I had some Fluance speakers in the past and heard some other ones of theirs as well and I wouldn't get those again. Unless you Need floorstanders for really cheap, I think you can do better. Outpost also has good deals for really budget speakers by Polk (R-series) that go on sale all the time which would allow for floorstanders for a similar budget but I would trust them more.

That said I don't think either Fluance or the Polk R-series should be what you're looking at for a $4400 HT system.

If your speaker / sub / receiver budget is set at $1450-ish, what about dropping the 705 down to a 605 and diverting $250 towards a better speaker / sub combo?

Are you cable price estimates coming from Monoprice or somewhere similar?

Dropping down to the 605 is a viable option. I'm wondering if an on-wall speaker mounted setup would be acceptable to them? I just ran across this on sale at Vanns:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/serv...44400216/1197257888246

Yes, cable/wiring estimates are based on Monoprice.

Klipsch especially would be something that I'd have someone listen to before buying.

If aesthetics are a primary concern for them, do you think they'd want to see some floorstander vs. bookshelf on stands vs. wall-mounted bookshelf vs. Bose type cube vs. in-wall speakers before deciding which ones they can live with? Sometimes it's hard to imagine what things are going to look like without seeing them in person... and if they've never watched a movie in a HT setup, then I would imagine they have no frame of reference for this stuff.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I had some Fluance speakers in the past and heard some other ones of theirs as well and I wouldn't get those again. Unless you Need floorstanders for really cheap, I think you can do better. Outpost also has good deals for really budget speakers by Polk (R-series) that go on sale all the time which would allow for floorstanders for a similar budget but I would trust them more.

That said I don't think either Fluance or the Polk R-series should be what you're looking at for a $4400 HT system.

If your speaker / sub / receiver budget is set at $1450-ish, what about dropping the 705 down to a 605 and diverting $250 towards a better speaker / sub combo?

Are you cable price estimates coming from Monoprice or somewhere similar?

Dropping down to the 605 is a viable option. I'm wondering if an on-wall speaker mounted setup would be acceptable to them? I just ran across this on sale at Vanns:

http://www.vanns.com/shop/serv...44400216/1197257888246

Yes, cable/wiring estimates are based on Monoprice.

Klipsch especially would be something that I'd have someone listen to before buying.

If aesthetics are a primary concern for them, do you think they'd want to see some floorstander vs. bookshelf on stands vs. wall-mounted bookshelf vs. Bose type cube vs. in-wall speakers before deciding which ones they can live with? Sometimes it's hard to imagine what things are going to look like without seeing them in person... and if they've never watched a movie in a HT setup, then I would imagine they have no frame of reference for this stuff.

I know they'd prefer not to have anything on the floor, if possible. One thing they're adamant about is not having a cabinet for components below the TV. They don't want anything additional on the floor which is why I'm stashing the electronics away in an existing built-in cabinet. I'm already a bit worried about how accepting they'll be of a subwoofer which will have to be placed somewhere on the floor in the room.

Knowing them, I doubt they're the kind of people who would stand in a showroom and decide whether one set of speakers had a warmer tone or produced a better soundstage than another. Seriously, a set of radio shack speakers would probably awe them which is why I think the Infinities or Klipsches would blow them away, even though must of us in here would consider other alternatives to beef up the sound they would likely produce.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Is there a way they could put the subwoofer under a table or something to hide it? What about behind the seating?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Is there a way they could put the subwoofer under a table or something to hide it? What about behind the seating?

It's a possibility. I'm worried about running the LFE cable though. They have hardwood floors so it's not as simple as snaking a flat cable under a carpet to hide it. More then likely the sub will need to be positioned as close to the built-in cabinet where the receiver will be as possible. The cabinet is at the front right corner of the room so that's likely going to be the best place for it. Either that or the right rear corner and I can probably still hide the LFE cable, though I'm not sure if there's a power outlet there for the sub.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I'm glad I don't care about cables enough that I worry about such things

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I hear yah. If hiding the cables and having things off the floor and/or out of sight wasn't so much of an issue this would be a much simpler project. Then there's the fact that they remodeled this room less than a year ago so I can't go tearing it up too much, and there are already a lot of constraints and few options as to how I have to run the wires.

Setup is going to be a breeze compared to running the wires and cables.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I guess I need to explain that these folks aren't exactly discerning HT enthusiasts nor audiophiles. I'm not sure they've ever watched a movie in an HT setup. Currently they probably own 3 DVDs and their A/V experience is watching an old 35" JVC SD CRT. Their greatest concerns aren't sound or picture quality either, but aesthetics (how the system will impact the room and making sure the A/V components are out of sight), having the largest screen possible, and a remote that allows even A/V neophytes to operate the system. For the TV they are of the mindset that bigger is better and I doubt they'd even notice the PQ difference between the display of an Aquos and an Olevia. For the speakers...the smaller and less obtrusive, the better. A little bit of bass punch will suit them fine. They aren't really looking for a chest thumping experience or specific tonal characteristics. If I even tried to begin to explain those concepts to them their eyes would undoubtedly glaze over.

Right now the budget is $5K. Of that I plan to make about $600 because I'll be spending a couple or a few days running wires through walls and ceilings and reconfiguring their electrical wiring to accomodate their component placement wishes. This system will be going in their living room. Because of the way the room is built running those wires is not going to be an easy process They want the receiver, HD-DVD player, et al to be hidden away in an existing cabinet out of sight which is why the RF extender is an absolute must have. The aunt wants to be able to show pictures from her laptop on the TV as well, which is why I've included the D-Link media extender.

If there is a set of 5.1 speakers in a small form factor that will sound better than the Infinities and run @ $800 for the package I'd be glad to consider them. Anything above that figure begins to eat into my profit though and a $200 or $300 dollar difference makes a serious dent.

The whole reason they've asked you to do this is because they value your opinion. If they just wanted someone to install a home theater, you might as well drive them to Best Buy or Circuit City.

The Olevia will come back to bite you in the ass. Believe me. It has nothing to do with picture quality and everything to do with customer service. You're going to be the person they call when their Olevia has a defect and they have to send it back to get it repaired. It's those situations when you'll realize you should have bought from a first tier manufacturer.

If they don't care about audio quality, get them a $300 set of Athena Micra 5.1 speakers and buy them a Sony HDMI receiver; that will save you another $600 that you can stuff into your pocket.

If you're afraid of them not listening to your valuable opinion when they've asked you to build them a home theater, I suggest telling them to call 1-800-BEST-BUY and walking out the door.

If it's a relative you hate, I understand your parts list. Otherwise, you can do better.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
The whole reason they've asked you to do this is because they value your opinion. If they just wanted someone to install a home theater, you might as well drive them to Best Buy or Circuit City.

The Olevia will come back to bite you in the ass. Believe me. It has nothing to do with picture quality and everything to do with customer service. You're going to be the person they call when their Olevia has a defect and they have to send it back to get it repaired. It's those situations when you'll realize you should have bought from a first tier manufacturer.

If they don't care about audio quality, get them a $300 set of Athena Micra 5.1 speakers and buy them a Sony HDMI receiver; that will save you another $600 that you can stuff into your pocket.

If you're afraid of them not listening to your valuable opinion when they've asked you to build them a home theater, I suggest telling them to call 1-800-BEST-BUY and walking out the door.

If it's a relative you hate, I understand your parts list. Otherwise, you can do better.

Then show me another 55" LCD from a first tier manufacturer for $2100. They want the biggest screen possible for their money. The Olevia gives them that.

Also show me a set of speakers that falls within the budget that also meets their aesthetic requirements.

This system is suited for them and their tastes, not yours. Since I know them pretty well I also know what they are expecting as well as what would simply be wasted money for them. I am not stuffing my pocket here at all. In fact, Best Buy couldn't touch a system like I'm offering them in the 5 grand price range, installed.

If you actually want to be helpful, please do. If you're simply bent on being snarky and snitty, take a hike. Others here are actually being helpful and your thread crapping is not needed or desired.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Then show me another 55" LCD from a first tier manufacturer for $2100. They want the biggest screen possible for their money. The Olevia gives them that.

They have a $5000 budget; your job is to balance the components within that budget to their advantage.

Sony Bravia KDL-52W3000

Currently about $2399 on Amazon; has been as low as $2199 in the last week online and at some B&M retailers. Even at the current price of $300 more, you could easily skim that difference off a cheaper HD DVD player or less expensive speakers/receiver (since they don't care about sound quality).

If you ask 100 people if they'd rather have a 52" 1080p Sony Bravia vs. 55" 1080p Olevia, 98 people would pick the Bravia; that's before they even see the TVs turned-on side-by-side. The other two people (yourself and your uncle) would bust out the measuring tape so you could confirm the Olevia is 3" bigger diagonally.

CNet reviewed your 55" Olevia's slightly smaller brother, the 252TFHD.

6.3/10

Poor screen uniformity and off-angle viewing; produces a somewhat light shade of black; lacks user-menu fine color temperature controls; clunky menu system.

I wouldn't expect the 55" version to score any better. If you and your uncle can't figure out that you're settling for a below-average TV on an above-average budget, I guess it really doesn't matter what components you pick because he'll be thrilled regardless.

 

[jpeyton]

And my final hurrah, just to confirm your Olevia is a piece of shit:

Text

Olevia

Olevia?s limited customer service hours (7:00 am- 6:00 pm Pacific time) and broken links on its website regarding its warranty rules made it difficult to obtain information on its policies. Furthermore, its warranties are the most complicated the HD Guru? has encountered. If an Olevia HDTV requires repair within the one year warranty period, the additional costs and services incurred will depend on how long you owned the set its screen size. Here is its warranty program obtained from an Olevia customer service representative.

<37? screen size ? customer pays return freight from day one. Return shipping to Olevia is $55 for 32? HDTV and paid to Olevia when obtaining return authorization.

37? and larger- up to 45 days old Olevia will pay return freight to its California headquarters and replace the broken television with a new unit.

After 45 days the customer pays the return freight at a rate of $150 for it 37? models and $225 for its 42? HDTV. Olevia will replace the defective television with a rebuilt unit (as in another set that was defective and repaired) This ?no repair? just replace with a refurbished set applies to all Olevia HDTVs regardless of model or size according to its customer service department. Olevia will pre-ship the refurbed TV to you and at the time of delivery, will allow you to use the same shipping carton to return your defective television.

The Olevia customer service rep said its 42? models have on-site inspection service, but it is only to send a technician over to your home to determine of the set is actually in need of repair, for example, to make sure the power cord is connected. If the tech determines the set is broken, Olevia will ship a replacement refurbished TV after the shipping is paid.
For sets out of warranty repairs, you would obtain a return authorization, and ship at your expense the broken TV back to Olevia for a repair estimate. If you need a shipping carton, Olevia will ship you one for a very reasonable $20.

Olevia also offers extended warranty service plans, however they will charge you return freight after the initial 45 days of ownership and replace you broken HDTV with a refurbished unit. Here are the prices of the plans (you must add on the return freight charges )i.e. $225 for a 42? model which raises the cost of warranty to $474 for its 5 series with three year extension of the one year factory warranty. Of course it the set requires a second replacement, you would have to shell out another $225 for shipping.

3 Series

All Parts & Labor/ Replacement (including LCD Panel)
2 Years Total/4 Years Total)

332 $119 order $149 order
337 $159 order $189 order
342 $189 order $219 order

5 Series

All Parts & Labor/ Replacement (including LCD Panel)
2 Years Total/4 Years Total

532 $149order $169 order
537 $189order $219 order
540 $199 order $249 order
542 $199 order $249 order

Name Brand HDTV Service

All the top name brands including Panasonic, Sony, Hitachi Samsung, Philips, LG, Mitsubishi, Sharp and Toshiba etc. have in-home factory authorized warranty service for their larger size TVs (usually 32? and up). Out of warranty service is no problem. All the major name brand TV companies have vast parts supplies and a nationwide network of factory authorized servicers. The latest trend, started by Panasonic is ?concierge? service. If a Panasonic plasma is taken out of the home for service, Panasonic will provide a loaner plasma TV until the set is returned. This extra service is free; set purchasers only need to register with Panasonic.

Bottom line: the top tier TV companies invest in the future, spending collectively many tens of millions of dollars to keep their customers coming back to them. The ?new brands? look for the sale today and do not have policies that will retain customers. With better warranties and service, the top brands have an incentive to build higher quality more reliable HDTVs.

Make sure you check out the warranty and after warranty service of the brand of HDTV you are considering, or you may end up spending more money sooner than you anticipate.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Then show me another 55" LCD from a first tier manufacturer for $2100. They want the biggest screen possible for their money. The Olevia gives them that.

They have a $5000 budget; your job is to balance the components within that budget to their advantage.

Sony Bravia KDL-52W3000

Currently about $2399 on Amazon; has been as low as $2199 in the last week online and at some B&M retailers. Even at the current price of $300 more, you could easily skim that difference off a cheaper HD DVD player or less expensive speakers/receiver (since they don't care about sound quality).

If you ask 100 people if they'd rather have a 52" 1080p Sony Bravia vs. 55" 1080p Olevia, 98 people would pick the Bravia; that's before they even see the TVs turned-on side-by-side. The other two people (yourself and your uncle) would bust out the measuring tape so you could confirm the Olevia is 3" bigger diagonally.

CNet reviewed your 55" Olevia's slightly smaller brother, the 252TFHD.

6.3/10

Poor screen uniformity and off-angle viewing; produces a somewhat light shade of black; lacks user-menu fine color temperature controls; clunky menu system.

I wouldn't expect the 55" version to score any better. If you and your uncle can't figure out that you're settling for a below-average TV on an above-average budget, I guess it really doesn't matter what components you pick because he'll be thrilled regardless.

My "job" is to provide what they are requesting and the biggest screen for the money is their primary request. I also noticed your cut and paste from the Olevia article ommitted anything positive that was said about the set as well, and there were plenty of positive remarks.

btw, if we ask 100 people whether they'd rather have a Sony Bravia or an Olevia the vast majority would go "Huh?" You seem to be under the mistaken impression that everyone is like we are in here and are audiophiles/videophiles that get bent out of shape when they can't get a perfect black out of their flat panel. That's nowhere near the case.

I'll bring this issue up to my uncle and ask him what he wants. If he wants to go with the 52" Sony instead and trade a little screen size for better quality I'll do whatever he decides.

All I have been asking for here is for some suggestions. No doubt you can make them without all your snarky comments, personal attacks, and snobbish attitude. This is not the P&N free-for-all and we don't need that kind of trash in here. So why don't you learn to stow your attitude elsewhere when you waltz in and have a rational discussion without all the spewing and frothing, K?

 

[LOUISSSSS]

if they have the case for it and will spend a good amount of time on it, why not let them spend the money on a top of the line HDTV and get the SONY Bravia 52in XBR5 for around $3-4k... then build the home theater around that...

Onkyo 705
etc etc etc for another $1-2k