Building a home -- Lighting question

[cliftonite]

We are building a home and the cost of installing recessed lights are $180 per can. Is it feasible to install one per room and then use that to wire 3 additional in our bedrooms (this is on the 2nd floor, so we will have attic access).

Basically the one installed would be done right and can get a handyman (got an estimate for $40 per can labor only) to do the rest. Is this feasible?

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would put at least 4 per room close enough to the walls - like within 5 feet. If you just put one, say in the middle, you'll always have a shadow and the corners will be dim. Recessed lights don't spread out the light as much. They are meant to be in numbers.

If you don't want to pay for it now, I would just put regular junction boxes with regular lights at the places where you would be likely to put recessed lights, so that it's easy enough to do in the future. You'd still have to cut drywall etc to put in the retrofit ones but at least the wiring would be there.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

No love for led?

 

[cliftonite]

I would put at least 4 per room close enough to the walls - like within 5 feet. If you just put one, say in the middle, you'll always have a shadow and the corners will be dim. Recessed lights don't spread out the light as much. They are meant to be in numbers.

If you don't want to pay for it now, I would just put regular junction boxes with regular lights at the places where you would be likely to put recessed lights, so that it's easy enough to do in the future. You'd still have to cut drywall etc to put in the retrofit ones but at least the wiring would be there.

What I wanted to do was put one in the corner. This way the wiring is there and the handyman could piggy back off of it for the other three.

 

[cliftonite]

No love for led?

I was thinking about led recessed lights. Is there something else to consider?

 

[Humpy]

We are building a home and the cost of installing recessed lights are $180 per can. Is it feasible to install one per room and then use that to wire 3 additional in our bedrooms (this is on the 2nd floor, so we will have attic access).

Basically the one installed would be done right and can get a handyman (got an estimate for $40 per can labor only) to do the rest. Is this feasible?

Yes.

If this is a custom build I would have a talk with your contractor though. $720 sounds about right for four recessed lights, but they aren't $180 a piece. It's more realistically $500 for the first one and $70 for each additional.

I would encourage developing a well thought out lighting plan and having all of the work done during construction by a competent electrician.

 

[Elixer]

We are building a home and the cost of installing recessed lights are $180 per can. Is it feasible to install one per room and then use that to wire 3 additional in our bedrooms (this is on the 2nd floor, so we will have attic access).

Basically the one installed would be done right and can get a handyman (got an estimate for $40 per can labor only) to do the rest. Is this feasible?

Do you know if your circuit breakers are 15 or 20 Amp?
While you can have many outlets & lights hooked up off the same circuit, if you expect to use them all at the same time, you can run into issues.

So, go through each room, and see what outlets/plugs go to which circuit breaker, and if you are going to be using all the outlets/lights at the same time or not.

Worst case is, the electrician would need to run new wires to make a dedicated circuit.
You might also suggest they wire the lights using 3 wire, to make things easier down the road, and if you want each light to be able to be controlled separately away from the main switch.
But, yeah, your plan would work for cost savings.

 

[NoTine42]

You may want to consider how much lights installed later would impact the vapor barrier and insulation blanket of the home.

But that pricing would drive me nuts, unless I knew I was getting a quality $100+ LED can for that money.

 

[Red Squirrel]

You may want to consider how much lights installed later would impact the vapor barrier and insulation blanket of the home.

But that pricing would drive me nuts, unless I knew I was getting a quality $100+ LED can for that money.

That too, for ceilings where the attic is above I would avoid recessed lighting, it just adds another penetration in the vapour barrier and potential seal failure point. Though you can do a bulk head then put them in there, like sometimes you see that in kitchens where it's done as a decorative thing. That is something that would also be fairly easy to add later down the road too.

 

[rcpratt]

You may want to consider how much lights installed later would impact the vapor barrier and insulation blanket of the home.

But that pricing would drive me nuts, unless I knew I was getting a quality $100+ LED can for that money.

Am I missing something with this whole LED discussion? You can buy an LED bulb for your recessed lights if you want...

 

[purbeast0]

You're building a house which I'm guessing is going to be a couple hundred thousand of dollars if not more, and you're concerned about $560?

$560 is pennies compared to a house price and is worth it for the comfort knowing of it being installed by the builders at the same time everything else is done and working when you move in.

 

[rcpratt]

You're building a house which I'm guessing is going to be a couple hundred thousand of dollars if not more, and you're concerned about $560?

$560 is pennies compared to a house price and is worth it for the comfort knowing of it being installed by the builders at the same time everything else is done and working when you move in.

Have you ever built a house before? If you have that attitude with every single choice you have, you'll have a million dollar house real quick.

 

[purbeast0]

Have you ever built a house before? If you have that attitude with every single choice you have, you'll have a million dollar house real quick.

No I have not, and we're not talking about "every single choice" here. We're talking about 4 lights.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

If you have attic access to add the additional wiring later, you could just install 1 during construction. Otherwise, you'll have to have the builder run the wiring for you. Adding lights when the attic is available is easy.

 

[dullard]

No I have not, and we're not talking about "every single choice" here. We're talking about 4 lights.

Re-read the OP. We're talking about 4 lights PER BEDROOM. If the house has 4 bedrooms, that is 16 lights and nearly $3000 for lighting. That is big enough to justify a little optimization.

Running and installing more lights is easy once you have the first one done. I'm not sure that a handyman is the correct way to go. But, still, it isn't rocket science either.

My bigger issue is trying to picture rooms with just 4 recessed lights. Better than the old "put a light in the center of the ceiling" crap that we had for decades. But, remember that every room needs general light (to make the room bright/dark), accent light (to make the artwork, plants, bookshelves, or similar items pop), and task lights (such as a reading light in a bedroom). I fear that the OP may be trying to merge all three types of lights into 4 recessed cans.

 

[Greenman]

We are building a home and the cost of installing recessed lights are $180 per can. Is it feasible to install one per room and then use that to wire 3 additional in our bedrooms (this is on the 2nd floor, so we will have attic access).

Basically the one installed would be done right and can get a handyman (got an estimate for $40 per can labor only) to do the rest. Is this feasible?

Yes, it's feasible. If you're using basic LED cans, they draw around 14 watts each, so you can put a bunch of them on a single 15 amp breaker. Be sure there is enough headroom where future the cans are going to be installed. Also consider that there will be a fair bit of insulation falling out of the holes when the handyman drills for the new cans.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I would consider the cans as 100w each (or whatever their max says), because there is always the chance of someone sticking 100w bulbs in there, I mean, why would you do that, but still something to consider.

 

[Greenman]

I would consider the cans as 100w each (or whatever their max says), because there is always the chance of someone sticking 100w bulbs in there, I mean, why would you do that, but still something to consider.

The LED cans won't accept a standard bulb, and even if someone were to cut off the connectors and fit a standard lamp base to convert them to incandescent, it would just trip the breaker.

 

[stormkroe]

Don't use recessed cans, for Pete's sake. There are flush LED lights that have no rear profile at all now, they will literally fit into a pan box. Have the contractor install 4 octagon boxes (I usually install a separately switched ceiling fan in the center for bedrooms in addition to the potlights).
Also, since most receptacle circuits are mandated to be AFCI these days, chances are your lights are on their own circuit. A 15 amp circuit is good for 1440 watts continuous, divide that by 14 watts and you quickly realize every light in the house could technically be on one breaker. I'm currently instally 750 or so of these lights in a hotel new build, they're 1000 lumens each. 4 in a bedroom will be TONS of light.

 

[Greenman]

Don't use recessed cans, for Pete's sake. There are flush LED lights that have no rear profile at all now, they will literally fit into a pan box. Have the contractor install 4 octagon boxes (I usually install a separately switched ceiling fan in the center for bedrooms in addition to the potlights).
Also, since most receptacle circuits are mandated to be AFCI these days, chances are your lights are on their own circuit. A 15 amp circuit is good for 1440 watts continuous, divide that by 14 watts and you quickly realize every light in the house could technically be on one breaker. I'm currently instally 750 or so of these lights in a hotel new build, they're 1000 lumens each. 4 in a bedroom will be TONS of light.

The shallow LED's just showed up at the local supply house, they are cool, but not very attractive. With an air tight can being $10 a piece in bulk, there isn't much to be saved in an average home by using them. On top of that, my clients don't like it when I tell them "this is the only light you can have". Homeowners like choices, and are more than willing to pay a few bucks to have a choice.

 

[stormkroe]

The shallow LED's just showed up at the local supply house, they are cool, but not very attractive. With an air tight can being $10 a piece in bulk, there isn't much to be saved in an average home by using them. On top of that, my clients don't like it when I tell them "this is the only light you can have". Homeowners like choices, and are more than willing to pay a few bucks to have a choice.

Different areas, I suppose. We have probably 50 styles available, all of which fit into the same octagon box, so while it's not as cheap as simply changing a bulb, they can be swapped out very easily.
From a technical standpoint, code dictates here that we have to build 'a box' around cans in a ceiling below the attic, even for IC rated cans now (which are quite a bit more than $10 in my market), which is not required for octagons. Another great benefit is that octagons aren't large enough to not require firestopping in a commercial building, which saves TONS of time and material.
Finally, most bulb lifetime ratings are measured in a lamp, bulb-up. An LED in a can with the driver at the top is basically inside a little hot-air balloon, and won't even come close to rated lifespan (as much as I hate CFLs, this was responsible for giving them an even worse reputation than they actually deserved).

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah for pot lights on attic ceilings it's actually a pita because of having to build the box around etc and it also makes the vapour barrier installation more complex and have more seams that could fail.

Was not aware of ones that fit in an octogon box though that's kind of neat, so even the driver is part of the light too? I think that may very well be the best solution as it also opens up options if the owner decides to put in regular fixtures in the future. My parents got some installed after their house fire but the driver is a separate PSU box (like the size of a computer PSU) that sits in the attic. Downside of this is it would be a huge pita to get to if it failed. I personally would not have gone that route for my own house.

 

[Greenman]

Different areas, I suppose. We have probably 50 styles available, all of which fit into the same octagon box, so while it's not as cheap as simply changing a bulb, they can be swapped out very easily.
From a technical standpoint, code dictates here that we have to build 'a box' around cans in a ceiling below the attic, even for IC rated cans now (which are quite a bit more than $10 in my market), which is not required for octagons. Another great benefit is that octagons aren't large enough to not require firestopping in a commercial building, which saves TONS of time and material.
Finally, most bulb lifetime ratings are measured in a lamp, bulb-up. An LED in a can with the driver at the top is basically inside a little hot-air balloon, and won't even come close to rated lifespan (as much as I hate CFLs, this was responsible for giving them an even worse reputation than they actually deserved).

Way different area. We use IC cans and bury them in insulation, no box around them, no firestop, and no vapor barrier. This is obviously residential work, in sunny California.
We don't have "weather" around here, it really is climate. Our four seasons are earthquake, flood, drought, and fire.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I always found California construction standards so odd. I think there's no basements either right? We don't even build cottages that way here lol. Whatever the climate is, you still want a structure to be well thermally insulated and sealed from the elements as you want to keep the conditioned air inside. Ex: A/C.

 

[Greenman]

I always found California construction standards so odd. I think there's no basements either right? We don't even build cottages that way here lol. Whatever the climate is, you still want a structure to be well thermally insulated and sealed from the elements as you want to keep the conditioned air inside. Ex: A/C.

No basements. Some homes built back in the 40's and 50's had partial basements, but no one builds them today. We insulate the floor system, but it doesn't make much difference on utility bills.
In the area where I do most of my work, very few homes have AC, it isn't necessary. Summer temperatures hover around 65 to 75, in winter it's very rare to see it drop to freezing.
We build for earthquakes, hold downs, sheerwalls that go from foundation to the roof, steel straps above and below wall openings, Simpson connectors everywhere. A couple years back we saved the boxes from the nails we use for sheerwalls and counted them. On a 1200 sqft addition we used 40,000 2.25 x .148 nails.