Building a computer for the first time

[churcheo]

I was thinking that also Pixel, so you guys what is your guys opinion, the 3200+ or 3500+? So you guys say those will reach 2.7? I was also thinking of putting a Tornado 92mm on the XP-90 for some extra cooling.

rocketPack - I am definitely listening to you, I just forgot to mention your name. Notice I took the advice you and Pheek gave me?

Thanks and let me know on the computer.

 

[TheInvincibleMustard]

Originally posted by: rocketPack
Back off the topic...
...and RE: TheInvincibleMustard,
I'm not sure I followed what you said, but it sounds interesting. Could you elaborate on that a little? I'm not even 100% sure what you were actually trying to recommend I do, but I think it had to do with Socket A HSF attachment, which I would agree is entirely OT but still interesting

For instance, reference this pic (happens to be of the SLK800, but the concept applies equally well). See that little nubby on the clip, which is where you're supposed to put the flat-head screwdriver and then push down? Instead, slip a nut driver, or one of those 8-in-1 screwdrivers with the bit removed, or something similar to that over the top of that nubby, enclosing it on all sides by the tool ... thus, even if your grip slips a bit, there's nowhere really for the driver to go aside from staying put on the little nubby. Hope that makes more sense.

Back to the ontopic!!

I agree with Pixle, if you can hold out for just a bit longer. If you can't (like my fiancee ... she was on an aging Athlon 1400 until we just finished her new computer ... 1400 and WoW don't get along too well ... ), then do just what Mr Rocketpack here says and fleabay or FS/FT your parts when you're going to upgrade in just a few months.

 

[churcheo]

Yeah, I think I'll do that.

So, what proccessor, the 3200+ or the 3500+? Which should overclock the most, or is there a difference?

 

[TheInvincibleMustard]

Overclocking depends upon a lot of different variables, especially when your talking about the K8 architecture. Generally speaking, though, with solid cooling and decent RAM, you should be able to expect roughly 25% overclocking using nTune on a compatible and relatively high quality motherboard (manual tuning would probably be able to reach higher). If you're looking at more exotic than standard air for cooling (such as water, peltier, phase change, etc) then you'll obviously be able to obtain a higher overclock. There are two theories behind overclocking (generally) -- you have either the person who wants to overclock to get a better bang for his buck (in which case, they would choose a 3000 or 3200 and overclock it to ~2.5GHz, give or take, thereby making a very significant $/GHz ratio), or the person who wants extreme performance (who would take an FX-55, subzero cooling, and overclock the shizay out of it, with a much lower $/GHz ratio, but a mugh higher GHz). It would depend upon what you're looking at doing (which way you lean more towards), but you'd need to ask yourself if there's really enough of a difference between the 3200 and the 3500 to justify the much higher price ... if you really have an inkling of doubt that the 3500 is worth it, get the 3200.

HTH

 

[rasczak]

my advice to you, is patience. when you are building your first comp, not everything is going to go according to plan. be patient with trouble spots, keep your head clear, and enjoy the process. i love building pc's from scratch. it gives you a level of achievement and pride.

have fun.

 

[Pixle]

Originally posted by: jpbelauskas
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ @ 2.6ghz (260 x 10)
MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum
OCZ pc 3200 EL Platinum rev2 2.5-3-3-7 1T
eVGA Nvidia 6800 Ultra
2 x WD 36 gb Raptor in Raid 0
WD 80 gb sata

His sig should give you signs on what to get. Hey jpbelauskas, how is your system running?

 

[rasczak]

runs like a dream, was having a problem with my dvd burners but figured it out after i noticed taht i had set one to mast. and one to slav. and had the ribbon cables switched LOL.

but she's a beaut. i have one more upgrade then i'll be super happy with her. i bout two more 80 gb sata drives and want to buy a raid controller card to run raid 5. then i'm gonna be uber happy.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Have you read any of the threads here on RAID> Why would you want to run RAID, what do you do with your system that requires, or will even benefit from RAID; or is this just for bragging rights :roll:

-Kevin

 

[rasczak]

i'm gonna use this system to store all of our files for a real estate business my father in law and i started up two months ago. hence the raid setup.

no need to make me sound like some e penis dude, i'm not. i am just happy to be able to build a system that i am happy with.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Ok so why would you get RAID 5 then. Seems to me that RAID 1 would work just fine if you are that concerned about your files.

-Kevin

 

[ribbon13]

You meant RAID1...

 

[Gamingphreek]

Doh im sorry. I dont know how many people are going to believe me but i honestly did mean RAID 1 (Mirroring whereas RAID 0 is striping). Sorry about that.



-Kevin

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok so why would you get RAID 5 then. Seems to me that RAID 0 would work just fine if you are that concerned about your files.

-Kevin

raid 5 seems like the best performance for what i want to do. if i used raid 0 then i would double the chance of data loss right?

maybe you should read up on the articles on raid again.

and now i am done with you.

 

[Gamingphreek]

If you didn't notice i corrected myself. I also apologized for accidently typing RAID 0 when i meant RAID 1.

Seems like you edited my post when you quoted because i edited the original post 2 minutes before you even posted. At any rate i corrected myself and am sorry for the mistype.

-Kevin

 

[TheInvincibleMustard]

Gamingphreek, it doesn't seem like you know very much about RAID ("RAID.edu" Link) ... RAID5 is basically RAID1's redundancy (give or take ... it's a bit more difficult to repair a failure) with the speed of RAID0, and without the drawbacks of ineffeciency associated with RAID1 ... if there's any level of RAID that people should get, it should be (a hardware-based, eg PCI-X 133MHz) RAID5 setup with some SCSI's* ...

*Note: If you're doing some serious mission-critical work, then something more like RAID6 would be beneficial, but I cannot think of anything even remotely close to consumer/prosumer level that would require even a single RAID6 workstation, which is where something like the RAID0/1/5 that we're discussing in this thread would be placed.

Now that I've gone completely offtopic (for which I apologize), on with the thread.

EDIT -- one of these days I'll get the linky's right ...

 

[rasczak]

**extends hand in peace to gamephreek**

peace dude.

 

[ribbon13]

RAID5 takes a lot of XOR calcs, so you better save up $400 for a 3Ware or LSI

 

[Gamingphreek]

And why doesn't it seem like i know much about RAID. Because i didn't spew all the knowledge i had about it in my first post?

I know what RAID is, i know how it works, i know what it does, i do not need a lesson on it. He is doing simple database and spreadsheet storage. While this might be important and maybe confidential information it is by no means mission critical. Also he by know means needs to find a server board that supports 64bit 133mhz PCI-X and get a high end ADAPTEC SCSI RAID card. He is simply running a small real estate business. RAID 5 is not necessary. It will not be a tragedy if they have to wait an extra 2 secs for a spread sheet to pop up or to sift through a database. However, it might not go over too well if his father in law finds out he spend another $100 or more so they can have "faster" access times.

RAID 1 is not innefficient, on the contrary (IIRC) it has much faster read and transfer speeds than RAID 0 while RAID 0 has faster write speeds (might have switched them).

Now does that justify that i know what i am talking about aside from the last statement which i have just plain cant remember about.

-Kevin

 

[rasczak]

whats not mission critical data to you just so happens to be the life of our business, so i do see the use for raid 5. yes maybe i could go a little more vanilla and go with raid 1, but i got a really good deal on the sata drives that i am gonna be using for the the raid setup so i go with raid 5. (60 bucks shipped each for two 80 sata drives is quite a steal).

listen, gaming. to each his own bro, everyone has their opinion, you are entitled to yours, but you will not change my mind about the direction i want to go with my own company. i eventually see this company getting big in the area so why not start with a good solid setups that i know won't fail on me?

peace bro, and i'm sorry if i made you fell like you didn't know what you were talking about, i was out of line.

take care,

jpb

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: jpbelauskas
whats not mission critical data to you just so happens to be the life of our business, so i do see the use for raid 5. yes maybe i could go a little more vanilla and go with raid 1, but i got a really good deal on the sata drives that i am gonna be using for the the raid setup so i go with raid 5. (60 bucks shipped each for two 80 sata drives is quite a steal).

listen, gaming. to each his own bro, everyone has their opinion, you are entitled to yours, but you will not change my mind about the direction i want to go with my own company. i eventually see this company getting big in the area so why not start with a good solid setups that i know won't fail on me?

peace bro, and i'm sorry if i made you fell like you didn't know what you were talking about, i was out of line.

take care,

jpb

my father in law and i started up two months ago

Funny you said that you started it 2 months ago. You must be REALLY REALLY successful if in 2 months you are able to live off of this company.

RAID 1 will not fail on you. RAID 5 is for mission critical documents we are talking things like top secret designs, and national security documents. Something like what you are doing i think RAID 1 would be very good for. RAID 5 is no more stable than RAID 1. RAID 5 simply offers the speed of RAID 0 along with the redundancy of RAID 1. Unless you will have hundreds of gigs of data you need to sift through every second then RAID 5 is a waste of your hard earned money.

(I think you just missed a sale at outpost. It might still be going on. We got a 160gig PATA Seagate HDD for $50, i can find the rebate if you want and forward it. So if you get the PATA to SATA converter then you are paying ~$70 for double the Harddisk space.

-Kevin

 

[TheInvincibleMustard]

I am sorry if I came down a bit harsh, Gamingphreek ... I was typing that message when I saw your original RAID 0 comment No hard feelings?
And by "inefficient" I meant from a storage capacity, as you're basically "throwing half of your storage away" with RAID 1, and less so with RAID 5 (due to parity instead of pure mirroring). I do agree with your comment directly above this here, in that if he's looking at simply doing storage of data then RAID 1 would probably be perfectly fine (though, if looking at long-term, he may wish to go with plain vanilla HDD setup and do some sort of DVD backup (I can't imagine he'd need enough storage to make tape worthwhile)). I was unaware at the time of what his needs were looking at being, and was pointing out that if people are really considering RAID that they might as well do RAID 5 if nothing else (provided it is done in hardware and not through the CPU). I hope this clears up my point a bit more.

ribbon13 -- yes there is a lot of parity, hence why I said something like a hardware based PCI-X solution ... I seriously doubt that the RAID 5 option found on current nF4 motherboards support a true hardware XOR engine, such as the SI3114 on the new DFI boards ... if I am wrong, though, that is a ****ing steal at <$200 for a motherboard + RAID 5 capabilities!

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: jpbelauskas
whats not mission critical data to you just so happens to be the life of our business, so i do see the use for raid 5. yes maybe i could go a little more vanilla and go with raid 1, but i got a really good deal on the sata drives that i am gonna be using for the the raid setup so i go with raid 5. (60 bucks shipped each for two 80 sata drives is quite a steal).

listen, gaming. to each his own bro, everyone has their opinion, you are entitled to yours, but you will not change my mind about the direction i want to go with my own company. i eventually see this company getting big in the area so why not start with a good solid setups that i know won't fail on me?

peace bro, and i'm sorry if i made you fell like you didn't know what you were talking about, i was out of line.

take care,

jpb

my father in law and i started up two months ago

Funny you said that you started it 2 months ago. You must be REALLY REALLY successful if in 2 months you are able to live off of this company.

RAID 1 will not fail on you. RAID 5 is for mission critical documents we are talking things like top secret designs, and national security documents. Something like what you are doing i think RAID 1 would be very good for. RAID 5 is no more stable than RAID 1. RAID 5 simply offers the speed of RAID 0 along with the redundancy of RAID 1. Unless you will have hundreds of gigs of data you need to sift through every second then RAID 5 is a waste of your hard earned money.

(I think you just missed a sale at outpost. It might still be going on. We got a 160gig PATA Seagate HDD for $50, i can find the rebate if you want and forward it. So if you get the PATA to SATA converter then you are paying ~$70 for double the Harddisk space.

-Kevin

wow you really don't want to let it go do you? does it not occur to you that maybe i am working elsewhere to support this startup? probably not.

get off of it already, what is your point behind all of this? to prove your knowledge about raid 0, 1 5 10 , 2000000?

let's just let it die here. you have your opinion i have mine.

have a good day.


ps churcheo... i'm really sorry your thread got crapped on, i apologize for taking part in it and the system you are looking to bui,ld looks great. i hope things go well on your build if you haven't built already lol.

 

[Gamingphreek]

I hold nothing against you or anybody. It was just a good discussion

I tend to agree with you in a lot of this post; however, remember what he is doing. Spending that much on a PCI-X Raid 5 system is just not worth it at this time. Maybe if his company continues to grow very nicely 5-10 years down the road this would be feasible but in present day it is (1) Overkill, and (2) Expensive, the price outweigh the positive factors.

-Kevin

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: jpbelauskas

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: jpbelauskas
whats not mission critical data to you just so happens to be the life of our business, so i do see the use for raid 5. yes maybe i could go a little more vanilla and go with raid 1, but i got a really good deal on the sata drives that i am gonna be using for the the raid setup so i go with raid 5. (60 bucks shipped each for two 80 sata drives is quite a steal).

listen, gaming. to each his own bro, everyone has their opinion, you are entitled to yours, but you will not change my mind about the direction i want to go with my own company. i eventually see this company getting big in the area so why not start with a good solid setups that i know won't fail on me?

peace bro, and i'm sorry if i made you fell like you didn't know what you were talking about, i was out of line.

take care,

jpb

my father in law and i started up two months ago

Funny you said that you started it 2 months ago. You must be REALLY REALLY successful if in 2 months you are able to live off of this company.

RAID 1 will not fail on you. RAID 5 is for mission critical documents we are talking things like top secret designs, and national security documents. Something like what you are doing i think RAID 1 would be very good for. RAID 5 is no more stable than RAID 1. RAID 5 simply offers the speed of RAID 0 along with the redundancy of RAID 1. Unless you will have hundreds of gigs of data you need to sift through every second then RAID 5 is a waste of your hard earned money.

(I think you just missed a sale at outpost. It might still be going on. We got a 160gig PATA Seagate HDD for $50, i can find the rebate if you want and forward it. So if you get the PATA to SATA converter then you are paying ~$70 for double the Harddisk space.

-Kevin

wow you really don't want to let it go do you? does it not occur to you that maybe i am working elsewhere to support this startup? probably not.

get off of it already, what is your point behind all of this? to prove your knowledge about raid 0, 1 5 10 , 2000000?

just shut yer trap already, i've twice extended the hand of peace to you but you seem to disregard that. so instead i'll leave you with this, leave me alone, shut the hell up and go spout your "knnowledge" on someone else. i'm tired of reading you belittling my decision when you don't even know me, or know anything about my business aside from what i have told you.

have a good day.


ps churcheo... i'm really sorry your thread got crapped on, i apologize for taking part in it and the system you are looking to bui,ld looks great. i hope things go well on your build if you haven't built already lol.

Ok first im stupid because i "seem" to know nothing about what i am talking about. Now i am "spouting knowledge" and i should just shut up . Im not flaming you, im not putting you down, i am merely giving my take on the situation. If you dont like it... fine, but it certainly does not warrant you flaming me and acting like you are my boss or something.

-Kevin

 

[rasczak]

when you can make five thousand in one refinance loan, i think $400 to 500 dollars spent on a controller is money well spent. i've three such loans already in escrow waiting to close March 15.

these applications, the client files, i take these files as if they were life and death. do you own a business of your own? if you do then you can understand my worry. you may think it is over kill, but if i can afford to have the best failure protection bang for my buck then why don't i go for it?

i'm not trying to make anyone else here go raid 5, but if i want to go with raid 5 why can't you just agree taht i'm justified in taking every precaution necessary for me to feel comfortable about my data.

now pls. lets get off this and get back to churcheos thread. i fell bad taht we have crapped on it enuff.

**edit** please reread my post, i have edited it and apologize for being out of line.