Buffalo Bills cheerleaders sue over pay - squad disbanded

[Soundmanred]

If they push too hard, they might find out how much cheerleaders are worth.
Here's a hint - it's in the range of what they are currently being paid.

 

[sactoking]

The argument that they knew what they were getting into doesn't hold water. A contract, including an employment contract, must be for a legal purpose. If it violates the law, such as by paying below minimum wage, then it will either be interpreted to be in compliance with the law or thrown out, as circumstances dictate.

 

[Newell Steamer]

They brought this on themselves,... since they volunteered.

Also, TIL NFL cheerleaders don't get paid,.. fuck that noise.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

The NFL owners' position is completely indefensible. They make billions off their teams, they get local governments to finance stadiums, and they can't afford to pay their cheerleaders minimum wage? That's absurd. Assuming that you paid cheerleaders minimum wage for roughly 1,000 hours a year (likely less than half of that), the owners are looking at around $8,000 a year per cheerleader. Teams have, what, like 40? That's $320,000 a year for owners who are making hundreds of millions of dollars JUST in television exclusivity contracts (OK, maybe not the Bills...). It's disgusting that people would support exploitation with a "well, they knew what they were getting into" excuse. There's nothing wrong with celebrating success, but when you take to deifying the rich to the point where you support them taking advantage of everyone else, you've gone insane.

 

[mchammer187]

I know you're grasping at straws.

So let's change children to "these grown men should have known that long term exposure to coal dust is deadly - tough luck", or "those NFL players should have known that continuous concussions are not good for you - tough luck", or "those grown women at the factories should have known there are no fire sprinklers in case of a fire - tough luck".

Because this is what you're arguing for right now.

I have to say I actually agree with Nehalem on this one. Bangladesh thing was outside of this country so who knows what laws were violated in that one.

I don't really feel sorry for anyone working in the coal industry that develops disease there is no economical way to mine coal and not assume a whole lot of risk. I think the coal industry should be shut down because there is no getting around the dangers but you see plenty of people willing and able go into it even today. Just like you see plenty of people willingly engaging in smoking.

The only reason the NFL settled was fear of bad press. Were they aware of the dangers of repeated concussions probably but I don't think you can assume that players thought repeated concussions would have no long term consequences. Look at Mohammed Ali.

I do think it would be in the NFL's best interest to pay the cheerleaders to avoid bad press and the money itself would be a pittance compared to what they make but if we are taking a purely legal standpoint I don't think it is necessary.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I have to say I actually agree with Nehalem on this one. Bangladesh thing was outside of this country so who knows what laws were violated in that one.

I don't really feel sorry for anyone working in the coal industry that develops disease there is no economical way to mine coal and not assume a whole lot of risk. I think the coal industry should be shut down because there is no getting around the dangers but you see plenty of people willing and able go into it even today. Just like you see plenty of people willingly engaging in smoking.

The only reason the NFL settled was fear of bad press. Were they aware of the dangers of repeated concussions probably but I don't think you can assume that players thought repeated concussions would have no long term consequences. Look at Mohammed Ali.

I do think it would be in the NFL's best interest to pay the cheerleaders to avoid bad press and the money itself would be a pittance compared to what they make but if we are taking a purely legal standpoint I don't think it is necessary.

Listen. You can nitpick on my examples all day long. However, when you distill nehalem's and certain others argument, it inevitably boils down to "no matter how deplorable or unsafe working conditions are, it is perfectly ok as long as the employee agrees to it". I do not want to speak for nehalem, but based on his posting history I strongly suspect that he would advocate for Bangladesh working conditions as long as workers agreed to it. I do not believe this should be the case. I believe businesses need to ensure basic work safety measures to keep workers safe. And I also believe businesses should not skirt the laws by missclassifying employees as independent contractors in order to pay them less than minimum wage.

 

[Wreckem]

Aren't these women actually volunteers? Regardless, they know going in that it doesn't pay squat, they should have quit when they decided the deal stunk. With that said, I don't like anything about pro football, so if the cheerleaders were awarded a few billion each it wouldn't bother me at all. The league would just increase ticket prices a couple hundred each and be flush in one season.

Volunteers don't have employment contracts and are never considered independent contractors.

NFL cheerleaders are classified as independent contractors. The argument is, they are wrongfully classified as independent contractors. That argument actually has merit because they are treated like employees, not independent contractors. You cannot just call someone an independent contractor.

 

[Nebor]

The NFL owners' position is completely indefensible. They make billions off their teams, they get local governments to finance stadiums, and they can't afford to pay their cheerleaders minimum wage? That's absurd. Assuming that you paid cheerleaders minimum wage for roughly 1,000 hours a year (likely less than half of that), the owners are looking at around $8,000 a year per cheerleader. Teams have, what, like 40? That's $320,000 a year for owners who are making hundreds of millions of dollars JUST in television exclusivity contracts (OK, maybe not the Bills...). It's disgusting that people would support exploitation with a "well, they knew what they were getting into" excuse. There's nothing wrong with celebrating success, but when you take to deifying the rich to the point where you support them taking advantage of everyone else, you've gone insane.

If you're going to make me choose between rich guys who can get whatever they want and beautiful women who can get whatever they want, I'm siding with the rich guys.

 

[Ventanni]

Listen. You can nitpick on my examples all day long. However, when you distill nehalem's and certain others argument, it inevitably boils down to "no matter how deplorable or unsafe working conditions are, it is perfectly ok as long as the employee agrees to it". I do not want to speak for nehalem, but based on his posting history I strongly suspect that he would advocate for Bangladesh working conditions as long as workers agreed to it. I do not believe this should be the case. I believe businesses need to ensure basic work safety measures to keep workers safe. And I also believe businesses should not skirt the laws by missclassifying employees as independent contractors in order to pay them less than minimum wage.

I have to completely agree with you on this one, and your previous post, too. It doesn't matter how much cheerleaders are "worth", it matters that they're being paid for their work. If they can't afford it, then you don't have cheerleaders. Period. If the NFL can get away with reclassifying cheerleaders as other types of employees, then it sets the example and stage for other corporations to do the same to you or anyone.

 

[nehalem256]

I know you're grasping at straws.

So let's change children to "these grown men should have known that long term exposure to coal dust is deadly - tough luck", or "those NFL players should have known that continuous concussions are not good for you - tough luck", or "those grown women at the factories should have known there are no fire sprinklers in case of a fire - tough luck".

Because this is what you're arguing for right now.

(1) I definitely think it should be obvious to anyone with a brain that repeatedly bashing your head is not going to be good for you.

(2) I think its funny that you are choosing to compare cheerleaders to impoverished women living in a 3rd world country. Pretty big difference between having the choice to work at shithole factory or your family starves vs. choosing to be an NFL cheerleader.

And the consequences of being a cheerleader were a lot more obvious. Its not "the cheerleaders should have known they weren't going to get paid much". Its that they did know that they weren't going to get paid much and now want to throw a tantrum afterwards when they got exactly what they knew they were going to get.

 

[BoberFett]

I don't have a horse in the game because I hate pro sports. But both sides are stupid. Why would these bimbos take a job if they didn't think it paid enough? And why would the teams expect these girls to follow them around the country for free, or even lose money if they have to buy their own costumes?

I actually have seen this behavior in action though, so I'm aware how stupid some people are. My second wife was a "dancer" for a couple years after I met her. Tommy Lee was in town for a show and came into the club. He asked my then-girlfriend if she would dance for him, she said sure and asked for the money. "No," he said, "I meant for free." She told him to keep looking. Over the course of the night the older, wiser dancers stayed away from him but the stupid young chicks were all over him, dancing for free. I would guess most of these cheerleaders are in the second category, they want the attention and are happy to do it for free.

(Yeah, yeah, in before the "Sorry dude your wife banged Tommy" comments. )

I think the teams will cave, because they will be able to pay these girls a pittance and still remain legal. But it's still a stupid fight.

 

[Nebor]

I don't have a horse in the game because I hate pro sports. But both sides are stupid. Why would these bimbos take a job if they didn't think it paid enough? And why would the teams expect these girls to follow them around the country for free, or even lose money if they have to buy their own costumes?

I actually have seen this behavior in action though, so I'm aware how stupid some people are. My second wife was a "dancer" for a couple years after I met her. Tommy Lee was in town for a show and came into the club. He asked my then-girlfriend if she would dance for him, she said sure and asked for the money. "No," he said, "I meant for free." She told him to keep looking. Over the course of the night the older, wiser dancers stayed away from him but the stupid young chicks were all over him, dancing for free. I would guess most of these cheerleaders are in the second category, they want the attention and are happy to do it for free.

(Yeah, yeah, in before the "Sorry dude your wife banged Tommy" comments. )

I think the teams will cave, because they will be able to pay these girls a pittance and still remain legal. But it's still a stupid fight.

Please create a L&R thread titled "Why not to marry a stripper." I mean, I think I could do it myself, but I think your first hand knowledge would lend a lot of credibility.

 

[dmcowen674]

The NFL owners' position is completely indefensible.

They make billions off their teams, they get local governments to finance stadiums, and they can't afford to pay their cheerleaders minimum wage? That's absurd. Assuming that you paid cheerleaders minimum wage for roughly 1,000 hours a year (likely less than half of that), the owners are looking at around $8,000 a year per cheerleader. Teams have, what, like 40? That's $320,000 a year for owners who are making hundreds of millions of dollars JUST in television exclusivity contracts (OK, maybe not the Bills...).

It's disgusting that people would support exploitation with a "well, they knew what they were getting into" excuse.

There's nothing wrong with celebrating success, but when you take to deifying the rich to the point where you support them taking advantage of everyone else, you've gone insane.

There are a lot of insane folks on here as you can see.

 

[DrPizza]

If they push too hard, they might find out how much cheerleaders are worth.
Here's a hint - it's in the range of what they are currently being paid.

Yep. Just get rid of them. They really don't serve that much of a purpose.

 

[fleshconsumed]

(1) I definitely think it should be obvious to anyone with a brain that repeatedly bashing your head is not going to be good for you.

(2) I think its funny that you are choosing to compare cheerleaders to impoverished women living in a 3rd world country. Pretty big difference between having the choice to work at shithole factory or your family starves vs. choosing to be an NFL cheerleader.

And the consequences of being a cheerleader were a lot more obvious. Its not "the cheerleaders should have known they weren't going to get paid much". Its that they did know that they weren't going to get paid much and now want to throw a tantrum afterwards when they got exactly what they knew they were going to get.

So not only you're A) saying that no matter how deplorable or unlawful working conditions are it's all A-OK as long as employee agrees to it, but B) no employee can sue their employer for blatant violation of labor laws because they agreed to take position.

Wow. You're a real piece of work.

 

[nehalem256]

So not only you're A) saying that no matter how deplorable or unlawful working conditions are it's all A-OK as long as employee agrees to it, but B) no employee can sue their employer for blatant violation of labor laws because they agreed to take position.

Wow. You're a real piece of work.

No I think the issue is that Cheerleading is more of a hobby than a job.

All of the women involved could have easily got a real job that paid real money. They made their choice and now want to whine about it.

 

[glenn1]

Seems this could be settled in a legal sense if NFL teams stopped any payments to cheerleaders whatsoever and clarified it was strictly a volunteer job. Bet they'd still get a reasonable amount of takers for the positions regardless, and I extremely doubt the teams will keep the cheerleaders around if they're ruled employees and subject to minimum wage and benefit laws. Whether that's ethically correct or good business PR savvy is a different story.

 

[Slew Foot]

And just like that, no more cheerleaders

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/buffalo-bills-cheerleaders-halt-season-202235251--nfl.html


lol

 

[Soundmanred]

A loss for "community spirit".
LOL.
Guys like looking at pretty girls dancing.
We can do that just about anywhere.
If they honestly thought that cheerleaders contributed to "team spirit" or anything remotely related to making their football game better, I have news for them.
Cheerleaders aren't even icing on the cake of football. They are the little sprinkles on the icing. Nice to look at, but would you really miss them if they weren't there?

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Our entire accounting department would be gone...

The fact that you work somewhere so large that you have a department just for accounting just shows that individual contribution doesn't matter and that you are expendable.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

(1) I definitely think it should be obvious to anyone with a brain that repeatedly bashing your head is not going to be good for you.

(2) I think its funny that you are choosing to compare cheerleaders to impoverished women living in a 3rd world country. Pretty big difference between having the choice to work at shithole factory or your family starves vs. choosing to be an NFL cheerleader.

And the consequences of being a cheerleader were a lot more obvious. Its not "the cheerleaders should have known they weren't going to get paid much". Its that they did know that they weren't going to get paid much and now want to throw a tantrum afterwards when they got exactly what they knew they were going to get.

I hope you don't reproduce.

 

[AViking]

Yep. Just get rid of them. They really don't serve that much of a purpose.

Have you ever been to a game? They serve a huge purpose. They are basically the main entertainment.

I used to go to games all the time since my father would drag me to them. Let me give you a hint on what you can do at a NFL game. You can sit there and play with yourself for the 99% of the game that nothing happens or you can check out the cheerleaders.

People make fun of baseball as a boring game but there is literally nothing more boring than going to a NFL game. If you get rid of the cheerleaders I think you'd have a problem. There's not a chance in hell I'd go to one.

 

[Tsavo]

The NFL owners' position is completely indefensible. They make billions off their teams, they get local governments to finance stadiums, and they can't afford to pay their cheerleaders minimum wage? That's absurd. Assuming that you paid cheerleaders minimum wage for roughly 1,000 hours a year (likely less than half of that), the owners are looking at around $8,000 a year per cheerleader. Teams have, what, like 40? That's $320,000 a year for owners who are making hundreds of millions of dollars JUST in television exclusivity contracts (OK, maybe not the Bills...). It's disgusting that people would support exploitation with a "well, they knew what they were getting into" excuse. There's nothing wrong with celebrating success, but when you take to deifying the rich to the point where you support them taking advantage of everyone else, you've gone insane.

^That.

Up to me, I'd fire everyone and keep the cheerleaders. Pro sports are a complete scam.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I hope you don't reproduce.

It's unlikely. From some of what he writes it appears that he's advocating for the legal right to marry his toaster. Bit of an odd duck.

 

[nehalem256]

And just like that, no more cheerleaders

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/buffalo-bills-cheerleaders-halt-season-202235251--nfl.html


lol

I believe the term is: "Cut off your nose to spite your face"

Although, considering that it was "Five former Buffalo Bills cheerleaders" that sued the team perhaps its more

"Have your cake and eat it too" or

a bunch of old women upset that they can't pass the jiggle tests anymore, so they want to ruin the fun for everyone else.