Bucket Traps.

[zinfamous]

I've killed many a mouse by CO2. It is an inevitable part of the business of making new mice. I probably logged about 40-50 mice/day over 2 years.


I can tell you, as much as anyone else that knows....there is nothing humane about CO2. And I'm talking gas. Dry Ice is even worse, because it's slow and not as concentrate. In another lab we used dry ice just to calm them down long enough to lop off their heads and rip out their hearts. (The coldness does it). The less concentrate, though, the greater the chance of exploding eyes.




....


..

anyway, in my younger days, my pops made his own mouse traps out of soup cans. A spring and a paper clip and a wee bti of peanut butter and you had your own humane, live-capture home-made mosue trap. worked perfectly....unless you forgot to check your traps--for a year or two. Gross.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
They're just rats...

(in b4 the PETA nuts)

mice /= rats. you'd be surprised how different they are.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
I've killed many a mouse by CO2. It is an inevitable part of the business of making new mice. I probably logged about 40-50 mice/day over 2 years.

I'd guess "immunologist", but that number's high even for them.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: So
I was thinking (after reading this article) that if you are worried about drowning being too cruel to mice, why not drop a bit of dry ice in the bottom of the trap. Let it sublimate and you'll get a bucket of CO2, with no air. Mouse falls in and suffocates in about a minute. The only downside I see is that dry ice isn't as cheap as water, and you'll probably have to refill it periodically.

Question: Isn't drowning kind of the same thing as suffocating, as in the same end results. What makes one less cruel?

edit: not a PETA nut, I use the old snap traps, that way I hear when I catch one.

I'm not a PETA nut, and I don't think drowning is a big deal, but it's an interesting idea. And Suffocating is the same as drowning, but unlike drowning, the CO2 will do it in a minute or two, not after a long struggle.

direct CO2....maybe.

Dry Ice? hell no.

can't kill pinkies with CO2 at all. it's either decapitation (via scissors) or nothing. Even with CO2, you can't guarantee a clean death without cervical dislocation. Those fuckers will wake up, in the middle of a procedure, no less.

Honestly, the only humane way is cervical dislocation. With proper training and practice, you can lay waste to a horde of mice in a mere minute.

In fact, IACUC will nail you to the wall if you don't apply CV to every euthanized animal, after at least 2 minutes in a CO2 chamber (direct gas only--Dry Ice is strictly prohibited as it doesn't work)

http://research.unc.edu/iacuc/...a-policy-mouse-rat.pdf

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: DrawninwarD
Okay, you trap them in a bucket or something (no water). Then you close the lid and make it airtight. Eventually, they'll run out of oxygen and slowly fall asleep and die, pain-free. No?

But they're freaking rats, so why are we having this discussion?

for a user named Darwin, I'd think you knew the difference between rats and mice.....

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Falling into water is going to trigger immediate panic, because evolution has taught them that trying to breathe under water is a very bad idea.

Falling into a vat of carbon dioxide won't trigger such a response. Breathing will just become more labored, and by the time their little brains figure out that something's gone badly wrong, they're likely just about to lose consciousness anyway.


Also, if you want carbon dioxide:
- Baking soda + vinegar in the bottom of a tall container. Mix, wait for the bubbles to die down, and pour the carbon dioxide into the container - just stop pouring before the liquid starts running out.

Interesting bit to that - shine a light on the pouring action such that it forms a shadow not too far behind. You should be able to see the CO2 pouring out.

mice freak the fuck out when they jump into a chamber bathed in CO2. they jump about 2 feet in the air and claw at the walls, flip over, bite and tear at each other, piss and shit all over the place.

Have you ever been in a burning house and tried to breathe? ever experienced any type of Carbon monoxide inhalation, or any situation where you simply could not breath above water? Where do you go, how would you act?

same thing.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: HenryC

Originally posted by: QueBert
I don't like rats, but if I'm going to kill one I like to make it quick. Maybe I'm a pussy or whatever, but to me even a rat shouldn't suffer any more than it has to. And I remember one time catching one but the trap didn't finish it off. Something very unnerving about hearing them screech in terror & pain while they die a slow death. As others have posted, if the rat manages to not die and is alive all night making that noise, it's just not cool A rat however annoying, is one of Gods creatures and if I gotta kill one I'm going to try to make it an instant death.

I 100% agree with you.

I don't know why people are using piss weak excuses like "they're just rats" to inflict more cruelty than necessary. Rats are a lot like us in terms of feeling pain - this is why they're great test models for human disease. They have similar nervous systems and pretty much the same endocrine system. Also pretty intelligent and have at least some awareness of what is going on around them.

People who advocate slow and painful deaths to any animal are pathetic. If people have to kill an animal, do it quickly, or else not at all. Most hunters will shoot to kill, to ensure the animal doesn't suffer needlessly. How is it any different from a rat? When I went hunting I didn't shoot the belly, shrug my shoulders and say "meh, it's only a deer". That attitude is shit and can be scaled up to justify anything.

:thumbsup:

that's why I take a hammer to the head and toss them to the snake.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: HenryC

Originally posted by: lxskllr
I don't know how long you can live without oxygen, but I imagine the length of time feels roughly doubled from what it actually is.

Varies from individual to individual, but it would take 30 secs to pass out, and a few minutes for brain death to occur. It's a lot better than having scalding water poured over you, bleeding to death internally, getting burned alive, starvation, self mutilation on super glue, etc.

Some people take "any means necessary" too far. There's a big difference between necessity and wanton cruelty. Of course, people tend to rationalise cruelty by saying stuff like "it's only a mouse", which is just stupid anyway.

...you can't hold your breath for more than 30 seconds?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: zinfamous
I've killed many a mouse by CO2. It is an inevitable part of the business of making new mice. I probably logged about 40-50 mice/day over 2 years.

I'd guess "immunologist", but that number's high even for them.

transgenics core facility. It's all we did

 

[HenryC]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
...you can't hold your breath for more than 30 seconds?

I can, but I'd still have oxygen being supplied to the brain for that limited time. IIRC it's around 30 seconds when such supply is ceased that you fall unconscious.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: HenryC

Originally posted by: zinfamous
...you can't hold your breath for more than 30 seconds?

I can, but I'd still have oxygen being supplied to the brain for that limited time. IIRC it's around 30 seconds when such supply is ceased that you fall unconscious.

<--/facepalm

 

[0roo0roo]

snaps still the fastest. tends to smash then in the neck or chest, either way its pretty much dead right there since it tends to crush totally

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: weflyhigh
My parents aren't exactly the nicest

when I was like 8, I knocked a birds nest out of the siding of my porch and all the little birds that couldnt fly were just sitting on the ground by the front door screaming and making horrible noises
my parents made me take a shovel and whack them on their heads

you were the one that killed them by knocking down the nest. the parents made you finish the job.