Bucket Traps.

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
pine sol gases them out quicker than water drowns them. hammers are very quick as well. i got a few with my blowgun last time my neighbors moved. every time that house empties, the rats are looking for a new food source. its like they are trying to move in or something.

Interesting. The question is, how horrible is death by pine-sol? Worse than CO2? Better?

they rustle around A LOT and die within seconds. i imagine it isnt painless, but either is drowning/ asphyxiation

 

[HenryC]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
They're just rats...

So?

 

[Jeff7]

Falling into water is going to trigger immediate panic, because evolution has taught them that trying to breathe under water is a very bad idea.

Falling into a vat of carbon dioxide won't trigger such a response. Breathing will just become more labored, and by the time their little brains figure out that something's gone badly wrong, they're likely just about to lose consciousness anyway.


Also, if you want carbon dioxide:
- Baking soda + vinegar in the bottom of a tall container. Mix, wait for the bubbles to die down, and pour the carbon dioxide into the container - just stop pouring before the liquid starts running out.

Interesting bit to that - shine a light on the pouring action such that it forms a shadow not too far behind. You should be able to see the CO2 pouring out.

 

[HenryC]

Originally posted by: QueBert
I don't like rats, but if I'm going to kill one I like to make it quick. Maybe I'm a pussy or whatever, but to me even a rat shouldn't suffer any more than it has to. And I remember one time catching one but the trap didn't finish it off. Something very unnerving about hearing them screech in terror & pain while they die a slow death. As others have posted, if the rat manages to not die and is alive all night making that noise, it's just not cool A rat however annoying, is one of Gods creatures and if I gotta kill one I'm going to try to make it an instant death.

I 100% agree with you.

I don't know why people are using piss weak excuses like "they're just rats" to inflict more cruelty than necessary. Rats are a lot like us in terms of feeling pain - this is why they're great test models for human disease. They have similar nervous systems and pretty much the same endocrine system. Also pretty intelligent and have at least some awareness of what is going on around them.

People who advocate slow and painful deaths to any animal are pathetic. If people have to kill an animal, do it quickly, or else not at all. Most hunters will shoot to kill, to ensure the animal doesn't suffer needlessly. How is it any different from a rat? When I went hunting I didn't shoot the belly, shrug my shoulders and say "meh, it's only a deer". That attitude is shit and can be scaled up to justify anything.

 

[Oceandevi]

Just be sure that you are not killing the rats of nimh. They have powers...

 

[HenryC]

Originally posted by: DrawninwarD
But they're freaking rats, so why are we having this discussion?

Perhaps it's because some people have a moral conscience, and feel it's wrong to kill animals inhumanely?

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" is a great motto. In that respect, I'd rather have a metal bar break my neck, killing me instantly, rather than than my whole body being in superglue, injured everywhere from trying to get off and starving to death.

How about you?

 

[HenryC]

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
they rustle around A LOT and die within seconds. i imagine it isnt painless, but either is drowning/ asphyxiation

How is drowning and asphyxiation painful anyway? There is a stage of fright and panic, but you die pretty quickly and without any agony.

 

[CallMeJoe]

CO2 is not going to trigger the panic reaction that water or an irritant like Pine Sol will. The rodent will breathe normally without realizing it is suffocating as it passes out. You can see much the same phenomenon euthanizing a fish with Alka-Seltzer tablets; you let the tablets fizz out in some removed tank water, then net in the fish. It will swim around quite normally, with no sign of panic or distress, as it slows down and then loses consciousness and dies.

FWIW, I once shared a house with several other guys (military, off base housing). We found a nest of rats under the garage (near stockyards). One of the others got some past-date meat from a grocery and let it ripen for a couple of more days, then set it out by the hole in the garage foundation. He sat very calmly and quietly next to the hole with a baseball bat, and played whack-a-mole as the rats, one by one, gave in to temptation and came out to investigate that deliciously rancid smell. It took two days for him to kill nine rats.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: HenryC

Originally posted by: hanoverphist
they rustle around A LOT and die within seconds. i imagine it isnt painless, but either is drowning/ asphyxiation

How is drowning and asphyxiation painful anyway? There is a stage of fright and panic, but you die pretty quickly and without any agony.

Pains a relative term. While asphyxiation may not be explicitly painful, it's a terrible way to die if it lingers.

 

[EMPshockwave82]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: gorcorps

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: So
I was thinking (after reading this article) that if you are worried about drowning being too cruel to mice, why not drop a bit of dry ice in the bottom of the trap. Let it sublimate and you'll get a bucket of CO2, with no air. Mouse falls in and suffocates in about a minute. The only downside I see is that dry ice isn't as cheap as water, and you'll probably have to refill it periodically.

Question: Isn't drowning kind of the same thing as suffocating, as in the same end results. What makes one less cruel?

edit: not a PETA nut, I use the old snap traps, that way I hear when I catch one.

I'm not a PETA nut, and I don't think drowning is a big deal, but it's an interesting idea. And Suffocating is the same as drowning, but unlike drowning, the CO2 will do it in a minute or two, not after a long struggle.

I think I'm with gar on this one. I don't see how cutting off their air supply via CO2 is any different than with water. They're still struggling to breathe in their last moments and I don't see how cutting out the oxygen w/ water vs. CO2 is going to change how long they last w/out air.

If anything, the bucket filled with water gives them a chance for a little swim before dying, plus you're breaking the fall with water not just the hard bottom of a bucket.

It's a mouse, a three foot fall isn't going to hurt it. That said, which one would you prefer.

I have to agree with the CO2 death vs the water drowning. If I was going to die either way I'd rather fall in and know I was going to die instead of falling in and having to tread water for hours and then just die tired.

 

[HenryC]

Originally posted by: lxskllr
Pains a relative term. While asphyxiation may not be explicitly painful, it's a terrible way to die if it lingers.

Emotional pain? Yes. But physical pain is physical pain.

Lingering asphyxiation? Give an example please.

 

[lxskllr]

Originally posted by: HenryC

Originally posted by: lxskllr
Pains a relative term. While asphyxiation may not be explicitly painful, it's a terrible way to die if it lingers.

Emotional pain? Yes. But physical pain is physical pain.

Lingering asphyxiation? Give an example please.

Maybe not the best choice of words on my part, but lingering starts about 5 seconds after to realize you can't breathe on your own. I don't know how long you can live without oxygen, but I imagine the length of time feels roughly doubled from what it actually is.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
They're just rats...

(in b4 the PETA nuts)

No, they're mice. Different animal.

They're pests, and there's nothing wrong with killing them...however, killing them quickly and humanely should be a consideration. The glue traps just seem kind of cruel, and not necessarily more effective than other methods.

Originally posted by: gar3555

Originally posted by: So
I was thinking (after reading this article) that if you are worried about drowning being too cruel to mice, why not drop a bit of dry ice in the bottom of the trap. Let it sublimate and you'll get a bucket of CO2, with no air. Mouse falls in and suffocates in about a minute. The only downside I see is that dry ice isn't as cheap as water, and you'll probably have to refill it periodically.

Question: Isn't drowning kind of the same thing as suffocating, as in the same end results. What makes one less cruel?

edit: not a PETA nut, I use the old snap traps, that way I hear when I catch one.

With CO2, sure. However, if the bucket were filled with pure nitrogen instead, suffocating would be "less cruel". The reason is that the signals that tell your body that it needs air are primarily based on blood pH and CO2 level, which means that if you're in a zero-oxygen environment with some other inert gas, you'll probably pass out before you even realize that you're out of air. If you're in a CO2 environment, you'll start gasping and panicking much more quickly.

Problem with drowning: Mice, like all mammals, can swim. They'll swim around until they get exhausted and drown.

 

[DrawninwarD]

Humane method.

*runs*

 

[HenryC]

Originally posted by: jagec
The glue traps just seem kind of cruel, and not necessarily more effective than other methods.

I think you're underrating the cruelty of glue traps here.

There is probably not a single trap out there that is more inhumane than the glue trap. The things have industrial strength super glue on them - the same glue you use to stick plastic or wood together. Have you ever had your finger stuck on super glue before? Try to pull your finger out as hard as you can... it really hurts. You'll even skin yourself.

Now, imagine a small, fragile animal entirely immersed in this stuff. Mice and rats have very delicate skin. They will often be stuck with their head free. They will pull hard enough to skin themselves alive and break bones in the process, because the glue is just too strong. When they manage to pry their skin from their bellies, they will often chew their limbs off to escape.

If that's not enough, the instructions tell you to throw the animal into the garbage along with trap, regardless if it is living or not. People will either do this or just leave it there, causing the animal to suffer from dehydration and starvation (a horribly painful and lengthy process).

I'm not making this up either. There are many anecdotes all over the net from glue trap users who describe similar things. Not to mention a comprehensive review from a few government bodies, and a few scientific papers describing it.

I'm still gobsmacked to still see these things legal. They're no better than those steel jawed leg snares, which are banned for the very reason of being utterly inhumane. If I had the power and was asked what would be the first animal related issue I would tackle, it would be banning those glue traps outright and throwing those responsible for their creation and manufacture, to a mob of bloodythirsty PETA supporters.

 

[HenryC]

Originally posted by: lxskllr
I don't know how long you can live without oxygen, but I imagine the length of time feels roughly doubled from what it actually is.

Varies from individual to individual, but it would take 30 secs to pass out, and a few minutes for brain death to occur. It's a lot better than having scalding water poured over you, bleeding to death internally, getting burned alive, starvation, self mutilation on super glue, etc.

Some people take "any means necessary" too far. There's a big difference between necessity and wanton cruelty. Of course, people tend to rationalise cruelty by saying stuff like "it's only a mouse", which is just stupid anyway.

 

[reitz]

A few years ago I 'rescued' the same freakin' mouse from my cats three days in a row in my old apartment. After that, I just gave up and started let the cats eat 'em when they're foolish enough to come in my house.

I can't bring myself to put out traps (tried the 'humane' ones in the aforementioned apartment...they're not worth crap). Say what you want, I just don't have it in me. I generally don't even kill spiders or bees when they get in the house if I can trap 'em and let 'em go outside without too much trouble. Strangely, though, it doesn't bother me in the least to sit and watch TV while the cats spend hours tormenting a mouse before finally killing it.

 

[Fayd]

i was under the impression that carbon dioxide was a relatively painless way to die 0.o

 

[takeru]

Originally posted by: HenryC

Originally posted by: jagec
The glue traps just seem kind of cruel, and not necessarily more effective than other methods.

I think you're underrating the cruelty of glue traps here.

There is probably not a single trap out there that is more inhumane than the glue trap. The things have industrial strength super glue on them - the same glue you use to stick plastic or wood together. Have you ever had your finger stuck on super glue before? Try to pull your finger out as hard as you can... it really hurts. You'll even skin yourself.

Now, imagine a small, fragile animal entirely immersed in this stuff. Mice and rats have very delicate skin. They will often be stuck with their head free. They will pull hard enough to skin themselves alive and break bones in the process, because the glue is just too strong. When they manage to pry their skin from their bellies, they will often chew their limbs off to escape.

If that's not enough, the instructions tell you to throw the animal into the garbage along with trap, regardless if it is living or not. People will either do this or just leave it there, causing the animal to suffer from dehydration and starvation (a horribly painful and lengthy process).

I'm not making this up either. There are many anecdotes all over the net from glue trap users who describe similar things. Not to mention a comprehensive review from a few government bodies, and a few scientific papers describing it.

I'm still gobsmacked to still see these things legal. They're no better than those steel jawed leg snares, which are banned for the very reason of being utterly inhumane. If I had the power and was asked what would be the first animal related issue I would tackle, it would be banning those glue traps outright and throwing those responsible for their creation and manufacture, to a mob of bloodythirsty PETA supporters.

*mouse half stuck on glue trap
*presses mouse further onto trap
*leaves glue trap outside of house
*waits for the 3 stray neighborhood cats to come

/flamesuit on

 

[HenryC]

Originally posted by: takeru
*mouse half stuck on glue trap
*presses mouse further onto trap
*leaves glue trap outside of house
*waits for the 3 stray neighborhood cats to come

/flamesuit on

I'll assume that was just a joke.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Live rat in trap + hammer = dead rat in trap. No this is not a joke.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Oceandevi
Just be sure that you are not killing the rats of nimh. They have powers...

Nickel metal-hydride rats - good for at least 1000 kills.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: HenryC

Originally posted by: QueBert
I don't like rats, but if I'm going to kill one I like to make it quick. Maybe I'm a pussy or whatever, but to me even a rat shouldn't suffer any more than it has to. And I remember one time catching one but the trap didn't finish it off. Something very unnerving about hearing them screech in terror & pain while they die a slow death. As others have posted, if the rat manages to not die and is alive all night making that noise, it's just not cool A rat however annoying, is one of Gods creatures and if I gotta kill one I'm going to try to make it an instant death.

I 100% agree with you.

I don't know why people are using piss weak excuses like "they're just rats" to inflict more cruelty than necessary. Rats are a lot like us in terms of feeling pain - this is why they're great test models for human disease. They have similar nervous systems and pretty much the same endocrine system. Also pretty intelligent and have at least some awareness of what is going on around them.

People who advocate slow and painful deaths to any animal are pathetic. If people have to kill an animal, do it quickly, or else not at all. Most hunters will shoot to kill, to ensure the animal doesn't suffer needlessly. How is it any different from a rat? When I went hunting I didn't shoot the belly, shrug my shoulders and say "meh, it's only a deer". That attitude is shit and can be scaled up to justify anything.

When I caught the one at my GF's house a few weekends ago, it died instantly I think. Didn't make a peep. we heard the trap and I looked over and the whole trap had moved about 2 feet to the right. As I disposed of it, I felt shitty for a second. But I don't possess the skills to catch it alive and unharmed to release it into the wild. Even if it was small and annoying, he was just trying to get some peanutbutter and cheese. That I can relate to lol if there were human traps involving food I'm sure I would have been killed along time ago.

 

[weflyhigh]

My parents aren't exactly the nicest

when I was like 8, I knocked a birds nest out of the siding of my porch and all the little birds that couldnt fly were just sitting on the ground by the front door screaming and making horrible noises
my parents made me take a shovel and whack them on their heads

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: leftyman
My cat eats the head off and leaves the body as a warning to the other mice.

Do you put the body on a tiny pike made of pencils?

ajhahaha